20-Aug-2013 - Divination

[Javot]

I'm fine with the exp rates at their current state. I've always been a believer that skills shouldn't be mastered in 3 days. They should take weeks even months. I like slow skills.

 

I also understand that the game changes and becomes easier which is fine with me, but I like the idea that they made a slow skill and they don't plan on buffing the exp.

[Fallstar]

I think most of the current complaints have nothing to do with the xp rates, just the methods of training (or more accurately, method singular).

[Flabberwocky]

The Reddit AMA with Mod Hew and Mod Ana, the leads on the skill, seemed to suggest room deliberately made for future minigames, events, and so forth. Unfortunately, the problem is that by tuning a game to give players something we want (a skill we can't just power our way through in less than a day of playing) we have the drawback (it can feel excruciatingly slow).

 

We have the excitement of the new skill, but since we know it's complement isn't slated till late 2013/early 2014 and coupled with no news on Divination-related updates, it puts us in a "Oh Guthix, is this how I have to train till 99" situation.

 

Personally, I think the resemblance to Mining/Fishing/Woodcutting/Runespan Runecrafting is so strong that variety isn't something I care about. What's probably more concerning is the presentation. How things look and feel. Mod Ana and Hew mentioned that the wisps/springs were deliberately kept this colour and then given small cosmetic changes because it'd avoid clashing with the environment, affecting colorblind players, and so forth.

 

But if you look at all the ways Fishing/Woodcutting/Mining/Runecrafting have managed to play around with the shape and colour-palettes of their resources and how they fit into their local environments, I feel a little bit more skeptical. For one, the Energy Rifts all look identical and every time I visit the Battle of Lumbridge it just looks like they supersized the rift and placed it in the center (or vice versa).

 

I don't really want to expand on this too much as it's going a bit long but I'm at level 76 Divination - the feeling that the wisps and rifts were just "dropped in" is a bit much. Why not have the wisps or the rift starting to "warp" the environment around them? Show a little damage? Perhaps the wisps and rift are influenced by the environment as much as they damage it - I mean it's Morytania (the zone I'm currently in) for Guthix's sake.

 

So in short, I quite like the balance of the skill - it takes time and I understand the rationale for the time. The downside is that excitement over presentation and the "experience" of transitioning to new tiers and training the skill gets dull rather quickly.

 

Edit: Added some formatting for emphasis.

[Yoko Kurama]

I think most of the current complaints have nothing to do with the xp rates, just the methods of training (or more accurately, method singular).

 

I would disagree. From my anecdotal experience in the game training on various worlds and at various spots, meeting lots of people, and discussions on various sites, the experience rates are deemed to be a problem. Most people find it to be horribly slow and tedious. I haven't heard much complaining about the training method, indeed, myself and others find the idea of switching spots to be refreshing. That's one of the few things that's good about this. Also, people don't like the fact that in addition to being so slow that the skill is not afk-friendly. That's a major problem.

[muggiwhplar]

I'm guessing this would end up like Agility, where many will choose to dump every possible bonus exp into Divination without really touching the skill itself.

"I never train Agility because it's too tedious, I just dump every possible bonus/extra exp into that skill" would become "I never train Divination because it's too tedious, I just dump every possible bonus/extra exp into that skill"

 

Of course. If you make things boring and tedious, then... surprise, people won't want to do them! 26 skills later and they still haven't learned anything on that topic.

Well I mean

 

Comp capes are reason enough to do anything

 

I can't think of any reason to want a completionist cape lol

[Reliable]

I'm guessing this would end up like Agility, where many will choose to dump every possible bonus exp into Divination without really touching the skill itself.

"I never train Agility because it's too tedious, I just dump every possible bonus/extra exp into that skill" would become "I never train Divination because it's too tedious, I just dump every possible bonus/extra exp into that skill"

 

Of course. If you make things boring and tedious, then... surprise, people won't want to do them! 26 skills later and they still haven't learned anything on that topic.

Well I mean

 

Comp capes are reason enough to do anything

 

I can't think of any reason to want a completionist cape lol

 

I miss my comp cape, as it gives me the best overall stats for a cape slot during Slayer.

 

I, however, am training Divination because i love having slower skills in the game for once. I feel better about my personal accomplishments when I don't finish them in the first week.

[Fallstar]

I think most of the current complaints have nothing to do with the xp rates, just the methods of training (or more accurately, method singular).

 

I would disagree. From my anecdotal experience in the game training on various worlds and at various spots, meeting lots of people, and discussions on various sites, the experience rates are deemed to be a problem. Most people find it to be horribly slow and tedious. I haven't heard much complaining about the training method, indeed, myself and others find the idea of switching spots to be refreshing. That's one of the few things that's good about this. Also, people don't like the fact that in addition to being so slow that the skill is not afk-friendly. That's a major problem.

 

Idk if we're training the same skill. This is at least a pretty afk skill. One click every several seconds whilst gathering, then 20 seconds or so whilst converting memories.

 

Also by level 85 divination is 60k/hr +. By 99 it will be at least 70k/hr+.

 

That makes it faster than ZMI, pre eoc slayer and normal agility. I think some people on RS have just gotten too used to modern xp rates.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

Idk if we're training the same skill. This is at least a pretty afk skill. One click every several seconds whilst gathering, then 20 seconds or so whilst converting memories.

 

Doesn't seem afk-able enough. I would have liked for it to have been as afk-able as pre-nerf (of August 2012) Runespan.

 

Also by level 85 divination is 60k/hr +. By 99 it will be at least 70k/hr+.

 

That's pretty dreadful by modern standards. And most of us do not care about experience past 99, so the fact that it is 70k at 99 is no consolation at all.

 

 

That makes it faster than ZMI, pre eoc slayer and normal agility. I think some people on RS have just gotten too used to modern xp rates.

 

We have, and why shouldn't we? I don't see the inherent and mystical value of grinding and no-lifing.

[Musica]

We have the excitement of the new skill, but since we know it's complement isn't slated till late 2013/early 2014 and coupled with no news on Divination-related updates, it puts us in a "Oh Guthix, is this how I have to train till 99" situation.

 

Nobody is forcing everyone to train Divination right now. There's really nothing that gives you a large advantage over other players at high levels, portents maybe, but nothing significant. The only people who could (or should) be complaining about the XP rates are all the comp capers trying to get their cape back. I for one like the slow XP rates, it means I'll have something to do for the next month or so and also means that a high Divination level will actually be something impressive. Think about seeing the RC cape prior to span, you knew that guy had some serious dedication to get 99. This is what Divination will be until mini-games and the like get released.

[Scherzo]

Making a skill afk'able is in my opinion just a bad way out of a bad skill design. If the content a developer is making simply makes people want to do other stuff than actually playing it while playing it, then there's something wrong. If the skill is boring now, I'd rather like to have more interaction with it, not less. That's why Q's idea with taking some damage, and actually having to respond to the enviroment is the right direction, rather than resigning and let the players game other games while alt-tabbing to play runescape.

[Miss Lioness]

I disagree Scherzo.

 

This skill has been designed with social interaction in mind. Tell me how can you be social interactive if you need to click constantly? (Aka non-afk) Or constantly need to do something in the game?? This leads away from the social interaction.

 

So what this skill needed is semi-afkness which we got now (if you hunt Chronics).

 

What does worry me is the huge experience points I get at 90+ for hunting those chronics. I get just over 1k exp at the moment thanks to enchanted Yaktwee, but we are training Divination, not Hunter!

And I try to get the most experience points out of it!

[Yoko Kurama]

Someone at one of the Divination training spots complained that because he had to keep clicking too often, he wasn't able to properly socialize. Divination is slightly afk-friendly, but not enough so, in my view.

[strilmus]

yeah, perhaps like the runespan of now where stuff moves around too much

 

while the lava flow mine is maybe dull for some, it is static enough that talking may happen but prompts you to pay attention a bit for some neato things

[Fire_Hawk154]

I trained most of my skills with 20-30K xp/h, so I think 60K/h at level 85 is really decent. They already made every skill easy xp-wise, so just 1 harder skill would do RuneScape good. If everyone has level 99 it becomes worthless, so be glad that there is a new slow skill now. Atleast your level 99 means something when you get it.

[Sy_Accursed]

I trained most of my skills with 20-30K xp/h, so I think 60K/h at level 85 is really decent. They already made every skill easy xp-wise, so just 1 harder skill would do RuneScape good. If everyone has level 99 it becomes worthless, so be glad that there is a new slow skill now. Atleast your level 99 means something when you get it.

 

Means something until 3-4 months now when most, if not all, of the ~15k players who were maxed have re-maxed plus probably ~5k people who maxed divination but are not max/comp cape folks.

Then 99 means about as much as every other one.

[Fallstar]

That is not true. If all those other maxed players also trained it legitimately, their achievement and your achievement means exactly the same whether you were the only one to do it or if 100k other people did it. You all put the same effort into it. Also relatively few people are actively training divination. I've barely been able to nolife it at all cause of more important RL stuff and still have a sub 1k rank.

 

Once people start RWTing for 99, then it'll devalue it to the rest of the 99s.

[Sy_Accursed]

In my opinion what devalues a cape is the number of people who have said cape.

The more that have it the less status it has and thus the less value.

[V O R K]

What devalues a skill is the cape :P

[Bxpprod]

The only value is intrinsic anyway, that's why we all seem to have varying opinions.

 

On top of Divspan as a whole:-

Not typically a fan of "slow" skills, but it's probably good to have another one in game. The fact it's a rehash of Runespan is a little sad, was hoping for something a lot more interactive than click 3 times/minute for the next 12000 minutes and viola.

 

But probably the most off-putting thing is that this now - in effect, it may change at 99 with location and time to return, this is yet to be seen - makes Hunter a near lossless skill. I guess this is similar to the old Superheat mining in that regard.

 

Tldr

Not a huge fan. Want comp cape back. Cya juju hunter pots.

[Quyneax]

This skill has been designed with social interaction in mind. Tell me how can you be social interactive if you need to click constantly? (Aka non-afk) Or constantly need to do something in the game?? This leads away from the social interaction.

 

So what this skill needed is semi-afkness which we got now (if you hunt Chronics).

You can interact at pines, but if you want the high xp/h, you will have to put in effort. Why do you think it should be only AFK, instead of offering a choice? Note that my design still allows afking (say, with a bunyip, prayer renewals and avoiding enriched), it just also offers an option to go full high-attention mode, just like combat.

 

No skill needs AFK. AFK is an optional extention that should offer a lot lower xp/h for those people who do not want to train the skill for real (ivy). It should not be the primary training method (Divination, Runecrafting). Essentially, what you are doing when making a boring, AFK-style game, is that you rely on something else to provide the enjoyment (or at least bearability) of your content. That something can be social media, books, TV, but it's still outside the game - basically leeching other things' fun.

[V O R K]

How is this skill not afkable anyhow O_o... Just time the enriched ones, click a node & discard the golden snitches, bam you AFK.

[Scherzo]

I disagree Scherzo.

 

This skill has been designed with social interaction in mind. Tell me how can you be social interactive if you need to click constantly? (Aka non-afk) Or constantly need to do something in the game?? This leads away from the social interaction.

 

So what this skill needed is semi-afkness which we got now (if you hunt Chronics).

 

What does worry me is the huge experience points I get at 90+ for hunting those chronics. I get just over 1k exp at the moment thanks to enchanted Yaktwee, but we are training Divination, not Hunter!

And I try to get the most experience points out of it!

 

I can understand that people do not want to click constantly (think stringing bows before make-x), but even with relatively low apm, you could require people to react to what happens in a way that optimises your xp rates / gathering rates. Things that make you more effective by paying attention. Divination has tried to do this with the chronicles and the enriched spawns, but it needs to do this in a more intense scale. You could still sacrifise some of the xp to be able to browse newspapers, forums or talk withother people.

 

I would agree more with you if the game already was so that you couldn't practically talk with people whatever you did, but there's plenty of activites you can do and still be able to talk with others.

[V O R K]

I didn't mind 1tick method ;p

 

Jagex dislikes people paying attention.:(

[Alg]

Jagex dislikes people paying attention. :(

Dungeoneering exists. :twss:

 

As everyone else is saying, the main problem is that (like in DG) we don't really have a choice. There's only one way to train the skill and if you don't like it you're out of luck. Unlike DG, though, you can't really pay to fix that.

[kamil1210]

Jagex dislikes people paying attention. :(

Dungeoneering exists. :twss:

 

As everyone else is saying, the main problem is that (like in DG) we don't really have a choice. There's only one way to train the skill and if you don't like it you're out of luck. Unlike DG, though, you can't really pay to fix that.

 

You can buy floors in dg