Behind the Scenes - November 2013

[Golvellius]

 

Some more info given out about CoinShare:

 

 

 

Hello again everyone!

 

I won't lie, this will be an inconvenience for some bossers. Rather than getting the money directly, you'll now have to sell the items yourself. However, that convenience was coming at the expense of the long-term health of the economy and ultimately reducing the value of everyone's gold.

 

Mod Jack

 

 

Five years too [bleep]ing late!

It's a joke that the lightbulb finally turns on to coinshare inflation at Jagex HQ.

[helring]

I lolled at 'like voragos drops on launch' since they still are in excess of max cash.

 

It sounds like a system that will work for the coinshare issue but I think it is BS to claim CS was injecting gold.

 

All the items that get CS'ed do sell (to my knowledge) so it was perfectly neutral other than the small window between the item dropping and the ge sale occuring.

Plus, unless my memory is failing me, did it not kind of act as a gp drain since items went to ge value but you only got -5% value in coins? Meaning each drop that 5% value was removed from the game.

 

I'm curious how robustly the 120 divided evenly is programmed eg 11 people for drop works out to 10.909090...

Afterall (depending on the drop value) giving people 1 shard more/less at random could be quite a large sum compared to giving people 1gp more or less on a coin split.

 

Well stuff like spirit shields may have been an issue as well. The sigils seemed to be a lot more than the actual shields so I'm not sure the sigils sold. I'm also not sure how many godsword shards and hilts actually still sell.

[Sy_Accursed]

 

I lolled at 'like voragos drops on launch' since they still are in excess of max cash.

 

It sounds like a system that will work for the coinshare issue but I think it is BS to claim CS was injecting gold.

 

All the items that get CS'ed do sell (to my knowledge) so it was perfectly neutral other than the small window between the item dropping and the ge sale occuring.

Plus, unless my memory is failing me, did it not kind of act as a gp drain since items went to ge value but you only got -5% value in coins? Meaning each drop that 5% value was removed from the game.

 

I'm curious how robustly the 120 divided evenly is programmed eg 11 people for drop works out to 10.909090...

Afterall (depending on the drop value) giving people 1 shard more/less at random could be quite a large sum compared to giving people 1gp more or less on a coin split.

 

Well stuff like spirit shields may have been an issue as well. The sigils seemed to be a lot more than the actual shields so I'm not sure the sigils sold. I'm also not sure how many godsword shards and hilts actually still sell.

 

 

Fair point, I didn't think of them; though you could argue jagex could've fixed them long ago by price linking or creating a system where the ge could self-build items eg if drop hasn't sold in x time it is taken into a pool where it is grouped with the other parts and put back as the resulting item. So it'd eat godsword shards and spit out blades and (later on) eat blades and hilts to spit out swords.

[Hedgehog]

I lolled at 'like voragos drops on launch' since they still are in excess of max cash.

 

It sounds like a system that will work for the coinshare issue but I think it is BS to claim CS was injecting gold.

 

All the items that get CS'ed do sell (to my knowledge) so it was perfectly neutral other than the small window between the item dropping and the ge sale occuring.

Plus, unless my memory is failing me, did it not kind of act as a gp drain since items went to ge value but you only got -5% value in coins? Meaning each drop that 5% value was removed from the game.

 

I'm curious how robustly the 120 divided evenly is programmed eg 11 people for drop works out to 10.909090...

Afterall (depending on the drop value) giving people 1 shard more/less at random could be quite a large sum compared to giving people 1gp more or less on a coin split.

An item is put in the ge at -5% and that amount of money is immediately given to the players, regardless of whether or not it sells. This is fine if demand exceeds supply, but it doesn't, so mostitems cconstantly decrease in price (there's more to it, but I'm on my phone atm, ask me if you're really interested), so the cs items just sit in the ge. If they don't sell, it's just an injection of go, not a transfer + 5% tax.

[Sy_Accursed]

^Fair enough I totally derped on how CS works, it certainly is injecting gold in that way.

 

A nice side-effect of this update as well:

You can buy expensive gear in smaller chunks to help it feel like less of an endless slog/help you not spend it elsewhere if you aren't making the money to outright buy these items.

[Urza285]

I can't wait to collect shards from vorago to make my own siesmic wand.

 

Honestly this is the way to go. Force selling items to the GE is bad for economics anyways.

[V O R K]

^Fair enough I totally derped on how CS works, it certainly is injecting gold in that way.

 

A nice side-effect of this update as well:

You can buy expensive gear in smaller chunks to help it feel like less of an endless slog/help you not spend it elsewhere if you aren't making the money to outright buy these items.

Ok that's a good thing.

 

I'm still not entirely sure if i'm happy about this soon-to-be update or not. We'll see!

[Yoko Kurama]

Statement retracted. If I can sell shards, then this is great!

[Ammako]

You can sell the shards...

[Alg]

Ridiculous. They have completely [bleep]ed up Coinshare. Not only did they remove the option (instead of letting us choose between shards and CS), but the new idea is completely stupid. A lot of us players who aren't super rich, we need CS so that we can keep getting some coins to replenish our stocks and everything. With this new update, we will need to get the drop several times before we can get anything (no GP or item anything until we assemble all 100% shards). Completely stupid.

Eh? I was under the impression that you could sell the shards as-is, and get that portion of the money. At the same time, players can buy a number of shards at a time, and then assemble the item at their own pace (So I could buy 1/120 of a seismic wand every so often, then build my own).

[Yoko Kurama]

We can sell the shards? Then I retract my previous statement. I didn't catch that from the video, but if we can, then this is great.

 

Does this also mean 100% deflation? If the object goes on GE (after players get the Shards), then whoever buys the object, their cash will entirely be taken out of the economy, right?

[ilovecuttingyews]

Considering it's a replacement for coinshare, I sure as heck hope you can sell them. Otherwise no one will use it.

 

Is there any particular reason Jagex picked 120 pieces? The OCD in me wants it to be 100, so each piece is exactly 1%.

[Saradomin_Mage]

We can sell the shards? Then I retract my previous statement. I didn't catch that from the video, but if we can, then this is great.

 

Does this also mean 100% deflation? If the object goes on GE (after players get the Shards), then whoever buys the object, their cash will entirely be taken out of the economy, right?

The object doesn't go to the GE, instead it gets split on the spot into 120 shards. That's at least what I'm getting from the video, so the net effect on GP should be nothing.

 

Considering it's a replacement for coinshare, I sure as heck hope you can sell them. Otherwise no one will use it.

 

Is there any particular reason Jagex picked 120 pieces? The OCD in me wants it to be 100, so each piece is exactly 1%.

120 is more divisible than 100 :P

[ilovecuttingyews]

Ah, that makes sense.

[Urza285]

Has anyone considered this shard update a perfect launching pad for making repairable gear via shards. They could easily make GWD degradable and require purchasing shards to repair the same gear.

[Alg]

Has anyone considered this shard update a perfect launching pad for making repairable gear via shards. They could easily make GWD degradable and require purchasing shards to repair the same gear.

My gut response was "No!" but the more I think about this, the more I like it. Granted, I still don't want to see it ingame, but that's because it's too late now: we needed this to have been standardized across the entire degrade system seven years ago.

[NukeMarine]

We can sell the shards? Then I retract my previous statement. I didn't catch that from the video, but if we can, then this is great.

 

Does this also mean 100% deflation? If the object goes on GE (after players get the Shards), then whoever buys the object, their cash will entirely be taken out of the economy, right?

 

No item is being put on the GE. The shards are now the item. The entire team has enough shards for one item. It's up to each of them whether to keep, trade or sell the shards.

 

 

Has anyone considered this shard update a perfect launching pad for making repairable gear via shards. They could easily make GWD degradable and require purchasing shards to repair the same gear.

 

I've considered it. I even want them to go one further and allow us to break about 100% items into shards. Perfect fix to the decay to dust items like Port Armor. Hell, for port armor, give us the option to craft shards for the items in multiples of 12 so we can cash out our voyages earlier. Using 12 shards to repair 10% is better than banking or destroying a piece of equipment that's at 5% or less. Might even make Port Armor a bit more viable.

 

Even without this, it's a good update. 

[Yoko Kurama]

I think it might be a good idea for Jagex to make the items separate from the shards. So the team gets shards, and the item goes on GE. This would make for some KILLER deflation.

[helring]

I think it might be a good idea for Jagex to make the items separate from the shards. So the team gets shards, and the item goes on GE. This would make for some KILLER deflation.

 

So like 2 items created every drop then? Say 1 that goes onto g.e., and the 2nd thats broken completely into shards and divided? That could work but for most of these items I don't think they want to double the number created.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

I think it might be a good idea for Jagex to make the items separate from the shards. So the team gets shards, and the item goes on GE. This would make for some KILLER deflation.

 

So like 2 items created every drop then? Say 1 that goes onto g.e., and the 2nd thats broken completely into shards and divided? That could work but for most of these items I don't think they want to double the number created.

 

 

Well if the only thing an item drops is shards, it will cause a shortage of items in the market (most people might want to hold onto their shards), and that might keep prices up.

[Sy_Accursed]

 

 

I think it might be a good idea for Jagex to make the items separate from the shards. So the team gets shards, and the item goes on GE. This would make for some KILLER deflation.

 

So like 2 items created every drop then? Say 1 that goes onto g.e., and the 2nd thats broken completely into shards and divided? That could work but for most of these items I don't think they want to double the number created.

 

 

Well if the only thing an item drops is shards, it will cause a shortage of items in the market (most people might want to hold onto their shards), and that might keep prices up.

 

 

It can't create a shortage. There will be the exact same rate of the item coming in to the game as before the only difference is some will exist as shards to begin with instead of the item, but as each shard will be valued at 1/120th of the total item value you can simply buy shards if the item itself won't buy.

 

I don't agree that most people would want to hold on to their shards either most people doing pvm are in it for the profits from these drops, holding on to the shards isn't profitable for them.

 

The idea of having the shards and one go to the ge is just awful it would cause deflation yes but it'd utterly crash the value of every single drop far beyond what could even be considered a fair or balanced value.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

 

I think it might be a good idea for Jagex to make the items separate from the shards. So the team gets shards, and the item goes on GE. This would make for some KILLER deflation.

 

So like 2 items created every drop then? Say 1 that goes onto g.e., and the 2nd thats broken completely into shards and divided? That could work but for most of these items I don't think they want to double the number created.

 

 

Well if the only thing an item drops is shards, it will cause a shortage of items in the market (most people might want to hold onto their shards), and that might keep prices up.

 

 

It can't create a shortage. There will be the exact same rate of the item coming in to the game as before the only difference is some will exist as shards to begin with instead of the item, but as each shard will be valued at 1/120th of the total item value you can simply buy shards if the item itself won't buy.

 

I don't agree that most people would want to hold on to their shards either most people doing pvm are in it for the profits from these drops, holding on to the shards isn't profitable for them.

 

The idea of having the shards and one go to the ge is just awful it would cause deflation yes but it'd utterly crash the value of every single drop far beyond what could even be considered a fair or balanced value.

 

 

It would only at most make each drop twice as common. For things like Seismic, that would be a much welcome thing that it wouldn't be negative at all. For Drygores/Nex, they're already so low that I don't imagine them crashing much more. So I doubt it would crash everything.

 

As for whether the rate with shards as the same as now, not quite. Because an item distributed with into shards only has the same rate as now if the shards are being sold fairly often...

[Sy_Accursed]

Just because an item is already low does not mean it can't crash, they reach these price flaws on the basis of supply vs demand. Fundmentally and dramatically altering one side of this will cause price changes.

If demand is unchanged, but you double supply it will crash, then as everyone can afford it the demand will slacken meaning supply will surpass demand resulting in possible further crashes.

Seismic could benefit from such a crash, but outright crashing the entire market to fix one drop is not the answer.

 

And as I said shards will be sold often, people kill these monsters for the cash from the big ticket drops. To get that cash they have to sell the shards; even if they wait until they personally have 120 shards and sell the item the overall flow of the item and shards combined will still equal the already existing flow of the item. There is no logical reason for people to stop selling it for the gp just because it comes in pieces now.

[strilmus]

since they already had the stupid flakes thing going on with ganodermic (what with the armor pretty much costing the same to repair as it was to buy) i don't see why they can't also do that for the 90 armors too, since it's basically the same damn thing, it's just a lot easier for people to do that than to deal with an armor that has like, one percent duration left

 

also, assuming that jagex is dumb and they've made every item traded in the ge equally relevant to a price shift as any other item regardless of the volume of money involved, the fact that those items will be split into 120 shards alone will cause more price readjustment to occur than if we kept them as just whole items, plus any price shift in the shards will change the whole item's price in multiples of 120

[V O R K]

It can surpass max cash therefore I feel it's going to be a second currency. Then again junktrading was always at use for things that surpass max cash but now it's something with an established worth that everyone wants (and is getting)

 

I don't mind, i'd love having a load of these and just sell some of them from time to time.