qeltar

You raise a lot of valid points, which are mostly due to the majority of RS players not understanding economic principles. It really has little to do with the Exchange as it affects all of the game. Interesting that you started this thread, because I'm writing up an article that goes into many of these same issues. A few specific points... Most players don't understand this simple economic equation: Activity Profit = Value of Output - (Cost of Inputs + Cost of Production) Furthermore, this applies to each stage of production. Thus, the profit in making nats, for example, is as follows: Runecrafting Profit = Value of Nats - (Cost of Essence + Cost of Runecrafting) Some people will counter this by saying that the ess is "free" if they get it themselves so they get the "full 300 gp profit". Wrong. If you mine the ess yourself, the profit from runecrafting is the same, you just get an extra profit from mining. This is also the same issue that causes people to think that certain skills are "great moneymakers" when they are anything but. For example, some people think that they "make lots of money" by fletching bows and alching them, but they don't -- at best they make a tiny profit, and often they lose money. Absolutely true. You're smart, because you understand that time is money. Most players do not. In the same vein, when figuring out the profit per hour of an activity, one should use conservative values that mean the items could be sold quickly. For example, saying that you can make X amount of gold per hour cutting yews but valuing the yews at 380 each is not realistic, because it will take forever to sell them at that price. The same thing applies to items that are hard to sell. For example, people fight monsters that drop rune scimitars and say they are "worth 25k each in World 1". Sure, but do YOU want to go to that cesspool and stand around for half an hour selling them? I sure don't! The devil is entirely in the details. There is no way to know what impact it will have until we understand exactly how it works. Even small variations in how it is implemented could have a HUGE impact on how much it is used.

z0mg! i like pie.

Thanks for all of the feedback. I don't cover issues like double nats for those who have 41 RC, or whether someone using assistance chops wood based on the WC axe he owns versus the one owned by the assister, because I don't know the answers to those questions. They are good ones and hopefully I will figure out the answers soon. Incidentally, I just revised the guide specifically to cover another issue I saw raised on the RSOF: there's an XP limit for assisters but not assistees. This makes no sense and directly contributes to the begging/harrassment problem -- if anything, there should be an even smaller XP cap on those asking for help.

Thanks for the kind words and feedback. I just made a small change to the article on my site to discuss the Farming aspect and agree that it is something you couldn't do before. I don't feel it's really a practical way to power-level farming so I didn't consider it something that needs fixing, but it should be recognized as something new. Oh, and I liked this idea too. :D -- :lol: 10/10 XD

Well, I agree mostly here, as I think that overall this was a good update. There are a few gotchas, however. First, this eliminated some types of trust trade scams, but created another one: people charging fees to use the system. This is not happening much yet, but just wait until most high levels get bored of standing around helping people. Second, offering unlimited XP would lead to tremendous abuses of the system in countless ways. The system would be used for power-training and for circumventing conventional leveling. Third, several of the skills shouldn't be in the system as "assistance" with them boils down to nothing more than begging for resources. This includes Fishing, Hunting, Mining and Woodcutting.

{People liked my first special report here on the Tip.It forums, so I am going to continue putting up report summaries of topics I think people will want to read about. My hope is that this can stay in General as it is about a new update and should be of general interest, and I will be here to answer comments or criticisms. Thanks. --q} TruthScape Special Reports - Understanding the RuneScape Assist System Note to readers: I have written a full report on the new Assist System, which is published on my site as TruthScape Special Reports - Understanding the RuneScape Assist System. It is too long (11,000 words) to reformat for the forums and repost in its entirety, so I am excerpting here portions from the FAQ and the page on myths and truths about this new feature. Those who want more details can reference the full writeup, including an introduction and general description, information on requesting and offering assistance, details on using the system with specific skills, a discussion of complaints and controversies, and finally, my suggestions, recommendations and conclusions. Enjoy! :) The RuneScape Assist System - Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) The new Assist System (AS) is simple in concept, but can be quite tricky to understand because of all the skills it affects, and the various restrictions and limits on its use. Another factor is that there are so many misconceptions, false assumptions and silly rumors flying around that itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s hard to figure out whatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s true and whatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s false. To assist you (ha ha) in getting answers fast, IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ve included a list of frequently asked questions (FAQs) and answers related to the new feature. The list is broken into sections that roughly parallel the structure of this review, and some answers refer to other places in the guide where you can get more information if you want it. General Rules and Restrictions Q1-1: Can the Assist System be used for all skills? A1-1: No, only 13 skills are supported: Construction, Cooking, Crafting, Farming, Fishing, Fletching, Herblore, Hunter, Magic, Mining, Runecrafting, Smithing and Woodcutting. Q1-2: Can you do anything in those skills? A1-2: There are specific restrictions and limits in how the skills can be borrowed, to prevent abuses such as cheating on quests. Q1-3: How much assistance can I provide to others? A1-3: ThereÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s a 30,000 XP limit per day in using the Assist System. Q1-4: Is the XP limit 30,000 total or per skill? A1-4: A total of 30,000 XP across all skills every 24 hours. Q1-5: How is the 24-hour period measured? A1-5: The game measures it from the time you first start assisting someone; it resets 24 hours after that point. Q1-6: Can I use the Assist System to get special, quest or untradeable items? A1-6: No. Q1-7: Can the AS allow me to access a guild? A1-7: No. Q1-8: Does the Assist System work on F2P (non-member) servers? A1-8: Yes, but only for F2P skills and items. Practical Issues Q2-1: If I reach the 30k limit can I still assist and just not get XP? A2-1: No, you cannot assist at all when you have reached the limit. Q2-2: Can I assist someone in, say, Smithing, and also smith items myself? A2-2: No, you cannot work on any skills while assisting. Q2-3: Can I do anything at all while I am assisting someone? A2-3: You can use the various chat mechanisms, but thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s pretty much it. Q2-4: What happens if I am assisting someone and they use a skill they already have a high enough level for? A2-4: In that situation the person you are assisting will get the XP for the skill used, not you. Q2-5: If I am level 40 Mining and I get assistance from a level 85 Miner, do I mine gold at the level 40 speed or the level 85 speed? A2-5: The speed of the level 85 Miner who is assisting you. Q2-6: How many players can I assist at once? A2-6: Only one. Q2-7: How far can I be from someone while continuing to assist them or receive assistance? A2-7: The two of you must be within 20 squares of each other. Q2-8: Someone requested help with Smithing and I accepted, but she said she couldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t use my skills to do anything. Why? A2-8: You probably didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t click the large ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅSmithingÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

When the ranting and raving has devolved to mass-spamming and the thread is going so fast that rational people can't discuss issues without their threads getting lost, then it has become chaos and anarchy. And it has. [/hide] Such threads are locked, like on any forum. As long as things are under control, it is not anarchy, nor chaos. Not only have these threads not been locked, one of them is stickied. Despite that, dozens of new threads on the same topics are created every hour. All of which are devoid of any thought or even understanding of the topic at hand. It gets a bit better during the day when the kiddies are at school not getting an education.

When the ranting and raving has devolved to mass-spamming and the thread is going so fast that rational people can't discuss issues without their threads getting lost, then it has become chaos and anarchy. And it has.

I don't think anyone here would rate RS as a 10/10 on any scale. But giving a game with what, 5 million players, many of whom have been playing for years, a rating of 2.7 on "lasting appeal" is a pretty serious disconnect.

I'm an active critic of the game where I feel it is warranted -- hardly a "fanboy" -- and I, too, found the review overly simplistic and superficial. I don't believe the reviewer really "got" what the game is about, or what its appeal is to millions of players.

I spent an hour or two on the RSOF yesterday while researching this new update. It was the first time that I had been there in a while; one of the F mods I know recognized me and said hello. It is every bit as bad as people say, and worse. Here's a classic quote, typical of the melodrama and hysteria there surrounding this update:

The difference is that those updates actually had negative consequences for how the game was played. Whether the changes were justified or not is debatable, but it's true that PC was made slower, and pure ess increased the cost of Runecrafting. This update, in contrast, changes nothing in terms of capabilities. The ranting is entirely by people who are going by superficial impressions of how this 'devalues skills' or whatnot, and have not stopped to think about the feature. Many are ranting about it being able to grant abilities that it doesn't even allow! It's truly sad to behold.

They rant out of ignorance, because they never bothered to read the update, because they are offended now that "noobs" can do "high level" skills. I blame the educational system.

I noted this myself earlier while writing up a guide to this new update. Of all the idiocy associated with updates, the sheer volume of insanity associated with this almost completely innoucuous feature is hard to fathom. No matter how often people point out that nobody can do ANYTHING now that they couldn't do before, it doesn't penetrate the childish, immature, unintelligent masses. Truly a sad commentary on the state of the RSOF.

One thing is consistent -- it's always the whiniest, most childish people who complain about updates being for those who are whiny and childish. If you bothered to actually engage your brain before posting, you'd figure out quickly that nothing much has really changed here.

With that huge of a price difference, I can't help but be suspicious. It was when godswords were new, and he didn't understand how the prices worked.

A guy once offered me about 20 million more than the value of an item I was selling, and I told him it was too much rather than taking it. There are a few of us out there. ;)

In their latest update Jagex says you can't use it for guilds. Haven't tried it myself.

In order to do this, they have to find a high level to come with them and stand there while they mine or cut. How is that any different than the same high level mining or cutting and then giving them the ore or logs? In fact, it's worse because it ties up two people instead of one. That's ridiculous. You think high levels are going to stand there for hours letting people mine or cut or fish? Think. Nonsense. People train levels for the satisfaction, and for independence. This is going to change nothing in that regard.

Except for a couple of loopholes that need to be plugged -- like the guild thing -- it doesn't let anyone do anything they couldn't do before.

Perhaps.. it's hard to see with the low quality of the image. Still looks fake to me anyway.

Another ridiculous screed by someone who didn't think things through. How does this give low level players anything they didn't have before? How does this make high level skills "more worthless"? Think it through and try to come up with some rational answers. You won't find any very easily though.

Not faked? Then why does it show a weapon in the weapon slot but the character isn't holding anything?

Imps in Jars are tradable. Aside from that, nothing I've seen, no. Not implings, these guys. Yes Imps as well as Implings can be caught by a lower level hunter using Assist. Okay, well that is the first thing I have seen that I object to. Imp boxes are untradeable so this should not be possible. Edit: Just heard a report that imp boxes DO NOT work. Anyone below level 71 willing to meet me and try this out? I'm 58 hunter, I'll help you figure it out. Give me 5 minutes and I'll log in. Thanks Omali. Confirmed: It does NOT work.

Imps in Jars are tradable. Aside from that, nothing I've seen, no. Not implings, these guys. Yes Imps as well as Implings can be caught by a lower level hunter using Assist. Okay, well that is the first thing I have seen that I object to. Imp boxes are untradeable so this should not be possible. Edit: Just heard a report that imp boxes DO NOT work. Anyone below level 71 willing to meet me and try this out?