High Alchemy misconception

[Freesia]

High Alchemy is so far one of the most popular ways of training magic. With this I will have to stress a fact that high alchemy is NOT the best way to train magic. Many players are aware that directly buying nats and the product to be alched will definitely result in a loss.

 

 

 

Others will want to argue that rcing your own nats will result in a profit alching, actually not really so. Let's do the maths:

 

 

 

Assuming you buy pure ess 95 each, added value from super energy maybe 20gp (I make my own super energies :P ). Nat price in this case will be assumed 310 each, you will buy yew longbows at 600 each and alch to get 768gp (high alch value).

 

 

 

The cost of producing a nature rune through rcing totals up to a cost of 115 gp. When alching yew longs above, you will gain a "profit" of 768-715 = 53 gp each alchemy. However, if you think it from another point of view, selling the nats to give you a 195gp profit.

 

 

 

In conclusion, if you attempt to alch with rced nats, the "profit" is actually the profit you get from rcing. By alching, you have used 142 gp as cost for 65 magic exp, making alchemy cost as a form of magic training., instead of the 195gp you could have made selling each nat.

 

 

 

Discuss and feel free to post your inputs.

[B_Ryan20]

ok, at least you getting profit AND training mage i used to craft nats and buy yew longs, thus my mage is 82 and now my rcing is 82. What other method of mage training gives you ANY profit? Plus what about the people that make there own yew longs? I believe alching is still one of the best ways to train mage. \

[Lugia_Lvl138]

Maging steel drags might give you some profit but it's slow and luck based. Also you forgot to mention people like me who do something while alching. I mine Runite at the Heros Guild. Some collect nightshades for their super weapon poisons. Some alch at Dharok's tomb and collect death piles. And a few alch at World 2 where rares are sold, hoping someone dies to a random.

[B_Ryan20]

^^^ also a vary nice point, one time while alching someone got hit for 56at dh and died, i got about 3m from the drop (runes/barrow gear/weapon)

[gun_hippy]

People haven't already worked this out lol?

 

 

 

if not, people are stupider than i thought

[zeke2006]

it is profit all round make your own nats xp there

 

alch xp there profit ftw

[BarcDrac]

What other method of mage training gives you ANY profit? Plus what about the people that make there own yew longs? I believe alching is still one of the best ways to train mage. \

 

 

 

Like me? :P

 

 

 

Honestly, this is pretty much the only way I've trained my mage ever since I can recall. Plus, since I made all of my yew longs, I achieved 99 woodcutting, 92 fletching, 69 crafting, and 85 mage (as well as the majority of the wealth I own).

 

 

 

My method used to be to first cut the yews in Rimmington while using my Falador portal in my POH to get to the bank. I would fletch 'em, pick my own flax (to prevent contributing to the macroing community), and take a trip to Ali M in Al-Kharid. I would buy my natures from there for 225 gp each and switch worlds a couple of times. Finally, I would alch the longs and make quite a bit of profit. :D

[Sy_Accursed]

Your theory has vital flaws

 

 

 

rcing requires ONLY pure ess unless u use some slow way to do it that involves running

 

 

 

Most people who use it for mage xp use it when they have stuff to alch eg bows made from fletching.

 

 

 

All in all its gd mage xp with a nice profit unless ur lazy and buy everything

[Dragonwizerd]

people alch because it's the fastest magic xp that turns a proffit, however little that may be...

 

 

 

we're not talking about selling the nats and making more cash, even if you can sell enough to buy all your bows and such and such

[hisensei808]

Not a profit?? :shock: Only an economist would point out the details of how it is a loss. I mean, if I make my own raw materials, to me I am still making a profit. REgardless of how much each item costs. Sure, Nats sell at 310, yew logs at 300 (or whatever). But I gather those material myself and make my own longs, mine my own ess (can we same time consuming?). Yes, it takes time, but in the end I have spent 0gp and made 770 (what ever the alching price is) per yew long. To me that is a major profit! The only thing wasted is time. 8-)

 

 

 

Best way to train mage: Live mage. (96 mage here, and done without massive high alching). When I say live, I mean live. Everything you do in game must be mage based. Teleport everywhere, make bracelets, enchant them (and use them), farm with lunar spell book, CW with Ancients, make battlestaves, visit the MTA (Mage Training Area), work on getting bones to peaches spell, use that while training (mage of course).

 

oh...and use telegrab! Not a waste of Laws, if you can craft them! O:)

 

 

 

 

 

Hats off to those who can do what I can not....sit hours on end high alching. =D> I can't stand that. AFter 100 alchs, I am bored. I prefer my method.

 

 

 

Scope the signature...

[krisc6]

eh?i make about 90gp a bow.i make my own nats and dont use super energys so im making a profit.

[Wachtwoord]

For all those saying you make profit alching, you're totally wrong. Yes, you make profit on the whole process, but you lose money on the alching. You'd make more money selling the bows and the nats apart.

 

 

 

OT: It's a pretty good way to train mage though, Cammy tele is quite more expensive, maging metal dragons is slow, mage training arena is (I've heard) 120K xp/hour but I know nothing about the costs. Not that much left.

[Guest Meliau]

Well, technically, yes, you would make more of a profit selling the raw materials, but then you'd be loosing out on the mage exp. And it's also useful that you can high alch pretty much anywhere, making it flexible.

[Tijger2099]

I've been trying to explain this to various people, but most seem to be so ignorant that they just don't try to believe it. The profit you make comes from rc'ing not alching. Basically you should see it as two different things. You are losing money because you're training magic by alching, to get some money back you use runecrafting. It's the same as when you died and lost a lot of items that you use runecrafting for example to get the stuff back that you lost. Some say that they have gotten back what they lost (when they have rc'ed enough to make as much profit as what they lost), but I don't see it that way. If you didn't lose the items by dying somewhere you could still have those items AND the money you now made from rc'ing.

 

 

 

I understand people try to see it in a different way, but those are usually the people who are actually trying to get their money back at that moment, cause by claiming that you almost made back what you lost you are motivated much more than when you actually realise you could've actually had way more if you didn't lose the items/cash in the first place.

[WolfhunterXZ]

Makes sense.

 

 

 

But then again, I make more of a profit because I mine my own essence, and rc my own nats. So all I pay for is the yew longs, so I make like a 200-300gp profit off of mine :)

[WolfhunterXZ]

Tip.it forum was going slow, accidentally double posted, if a mod/admin could remove this it'd be awesome. Thanks.

[Lime_Mercury]

I've always been highly suspicious of HLA, and for that reason an incredible amount of my mage xp is combat based. (Read: More than 90%).

 

 

 

Slayer dart, fire bolt, the occasional godspell, you name it.

[superson]

I don't feel you can call it a loss because you're not making the money you would have made selling them.

 

 

 

You make less profit, but you didn't lose anything. You lost potential money, but if people would actually like the mage exp, this still does not lose them money, it just does not profit them as much.

 

 

 

You can't say that they are spending the money, they are just cutting their profits in order to gain experience. If you were going for only money, and no mage exp, then obviously selling would be smarter, but the reason people runecraft nats then alch is so that they do not lose money, and gain experience in a skill (in this case 2).

[darkblade986]

I'm gonna pop in on this conversation and add my views on this.

 

 

 

 

 

The topic starter is looking at this for profits. If someone is looking for pure profits, then yes, what the topic starter states is true, and holds true in most cases. I won't dispute his math, but I will dispute the logic behind it.

 

 

 

Most people are interested in the Magic Experience. This is because Magic turns out to be a cheaper version of Construction if you're not using Alchemy (in most cases at least). By using Alchemy, you get a constant source of money while still gaining Magic Experience at the same time. You may be making less money, yes, but you're gaining more experience in the process, which most people are just happy with because they are still profiting in the long run.

 

 

 

I, for example, use to buy every raw (except essence, because at the time I couldn't craft natures), meaning Yew Logs, Bow Strings and Nature Runes. This was back when these items together would cost you 700-750gp. This means that I would only get 18-68gp of profit per bow, and I had no problems with this. I was essentially earning free experience, which was the goal behind it. Little or no profit is fine for most of the Mages out here; they just want the experience.

[Screechingmu]

I don't get your post, your first couple sentences really have nothing to do with the rest of your argument. You say high alchemy is not a good way to train magic, then you talk about the price... Ok, I guess I expected you to talk about some other spell that is way better then high alching.

[Master_Smither]

Profit+Decent Mage XP

 

 

 

Selling nats don't give mage xp

[munchkinmage]

Exactly. He's totally right, except he's not taking into account that he's talking about a way of TRAINING MAGIC, not straight moneymaking. You've got to account that in the "profit".

[hisensei808]

Not being a profit....

 

 

 

 

 

I believe I have had this argument with someone before. I still do not see how it would not be a profit if you gather everything yourself???

 

 

 

 

 

Are we assuming that ALL players purchase materials to high alch?? If that is the case, then yes, you may be correct in saying that there is no profit. But if I gather my own logs, gather my own flax, craft my own nats with my mined ess.....I would be making more money, just losing time. I have spent 0gp and made 779 (I think that is the alch price).

 

 

 

 

 

I will agree, if you buy ALL materials need to high alch for the sake of gaining mage XP, then you are wasting money!

[Tijger2099]

Not being a profit....

 

 

 

 

 

I believe I have had this argument with someone before. I still do not see how it would not be a profit if you gather everything yourself???

 

 

 

 

 

Are we assuming that ALL players purchase materials to high alch?? If that is the case, then yes, you may be correct in saying that there is no profit. But if I gather my own logs, gather my own flax, craft my own nats with my mined ess.....I would be making more money, just losing time. I have spent 0gp and made 779 (I think that is the alch price).

 

 

 

 

 

I will agree, if you buy ALL materials need to high alch for the sake of gaining mage XP, then you are wasting money!

 

 

 

What he's actually trying to say is that you do make a profit, but that you can't claim that you made money because of high alching, but that you actually made the profit when you collected your own logs (wc'ing), bow strings and nats (rc'ing), rather than claiming you made 768gp by alching. Besides while you're getting your own supplies you lose alot of time imo (unleast you want to get skill xp in those skills), my idea has always been (not been really after other skill xp, so that's prolly why): it takes idk how many hours to chop 1k yews so therefore I recommend to just rc for the money (which gives you the money needed for 1k yew logs way faster) and then buy those yew logs. But once again, that's probably just cause I'm not interested in wc xp :P

[InkofDeath]

You know, when you say alchemey isn't the best, it might be a good idea to post another way that is better, besides using alchemey in another way.

 

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Alching however, is the fastest, no matter how much money you lose. It's just like crafting black d-hides, or some construction methods, fast xp, big loss, or small loss of money/profit.

 

 

 

I think most people knew this anyways, when they ended up a few 100k-500k short. :