Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish

[bedman]

anyone who thinks merchanting is dead obviously cannot do simple mathematics

 

Oh, I can do math problems.

 

 

 

I'm just too lazy to get those few fractions of pennies, after pennies, after pennies.

 

 

 

Actually, there is way less work involved now with the GE. Log in, put an offer, log out. Whereas old merchanting: look around for deals all day.

 

 

 

Would have expected a more insight response from you...

[IceBlackIce]

Very nice article!!

 

Congrats.

 

 

 

BTW this comes from a person (in case you dont remember me) that smacked you in the head and just quit reading your articles. But not anymore, i no longer see biased rants against something. I see a well written article pointing out the failures and the good aspects of something, and expressing your opinions on such things, some i agree, some i dont, but a great article either way.

 

 

 

Congrats again and keep them coming =)

[qeltar]

Thanks for the replies, both positive and negative. A few responses.

 

 

 

First, to those saying they never liked my articles before but they like this one, or now I am worth reading or whatever. Or those who say "before I was biased but now I'm not" etc. This is an editorial, not a review, so yes, it's biased. And rest assured that I will again in the future write things you don't like. I'm an independent thinker with values and beliefs and I speak honestly. If you don't always agree with me, great - that means you are using your brain. Just remember that an article can be good even if you don't agree with it.

 

 

 

klankaos: It's natural that PKers would take issue with my comments, since many of them were addressed to PKers. And some have made intelligent arguments, to be fair.

 

 

 

berbatovsky: Thanks, but just so you know... Sly Wizard has had a "thing" for me for about a year now, going back to the RSOF. He's also been opposed to every single change that Jagex has ever made to try to clean up the game in any respect. He even went so far as to cheer on Jagex in February when they tried to legalize luring, and then oppose Jagex a month later when they changed their minds. It's not surprising that he'd react in his typical childish manner to this article, given that he's at the very top of the rubbish heap of which we are being ridden. Just ignore him -- I do.

 

 

 

EugenyG: You may have missed my earlier article, published on the day of the update, which covered the problems with the new changes in detail. You can find it here: http://www.truthscape.com/html/ts_TheTr ... ethePa.htm

[EugenyG]

Qeltar - read your article. It seems like a good response to the first part of my reply, offering numerous technical means on how the brutish hackjob can be polished around the edges and make it work a little better. I also wrote a possible suggestion to one of the biggest problems of the 3k limit here: http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=723676

 

 

 

But none of that addressed the second part, which I believe to be the most important.

 

 

 

Really, RS simply feels like a job if not a game if everything is laid out for you and you just have to follow a path to destination. You have enough of that in a real life job. MMORPGs traditionally meant carving your own destiny through your choices, and freedom is a critical component.

 

 

 

Also to add a bit on top of your harsh criticism of "uncivilized response". You know, people just don't feel like being an "acceptable casualty". If you hurt someone, expect them to fight back using any means they have. Even if they know that their fighting wont change your decision, they will fight simply out of revenge, just to cause maximum damage that they can to you, due to the damage you caused them. Even if it didn't stop you from doing what you done, it'll at least make you maximally suffer for causing suffering to others.

 

 

 

Like it or not, that is fundamental human nature. Jagex hurt the players - the players will punish Jagex in the maximum possible way - and regardless of whether Jagex considers the way legal or not - this includes riots, forum flooding, causing disruption, and of course, quitting. And sure, Jagex can threaten people with bans/mutes, but if the damage they caused is so bad players are going to quit anyways, then there's nothing Jagex can do to stop the reaction. This is the murder-suicide mentality. You can consider it wrong or immoral in principle, but it happens in real life, and it will happen here. Drive a person to the extreme and there is no limits to what they may do in revenge.

 

 

 

You can't just punch someone in the face, and expect them not to punch back, even if both of you knew it wouldn't affect your original decision to punch.

[jonni]

Have you ever been in a clan?

 

 

 

What does that have to do with this discussion?

 

 

 

 

Quite much, because if he had, he would know how much this updated ruins for clans.

 

And no, Clan Wars are just not the same. And neither is Bounty Hunter. Again, I must say, that Bounty is full of 1-itemers and teams piling loners (which I believe will be rare to find in the future).

 

 

 

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about, sorry if it seemed unclear.

 

 

 

The clan world has suffered greatly from this, and although larger clans are using BH as the "old wildy" they still do not have a safe place to war that gives rewards and protection from crashers/cheaters.

 

 

 

For you to say "good riddance" is an extreme insult to me and a lot of people. Ever scince I entered the clan world earlier this year the game has been much more fun and I have met some simply amazing people. And it's not just about the PK'ing either, the friendship and the community around clans is the biggest part, the wilderness is just the heart of that.

 

 

 

Right now, despite large clans fighting in BH, a lot of the small-medium size clans are in limbo, either unsure what to do or waiting for any changes Jagex will make.

 

 

 

So again, I ask you if you have ever been in a serious, warring clan and/or community?

 

Because from what you have said I am assuming you haven't, if you had you would have never said some of those things.

[qeltar]

Jonni, I've said several times that I don't think all Pkers are bad. But the community as a whole was a very negative aspect of the game.

 

 

 

I believe that Jagex will tweak the recent updates to make clan wars and other legitimate PKing activities fun again.

[jonni]

I wasn't talking about pkers, those who go out solely to kill other players, I was talking about Clans, who go out mainly to kill other clans for control and/or respect.

 

 

 

There is a large gap between the Clan community and the Pking community, it is visible on other forums such as RuneScape Community and RSB.

 

 

 

PKers argue, flame and set out to destroy reputations and hurt opposing pkers.

 

 

 

Clans (with the exception of "no-honour clans, although even they follow some "codes of honour") go out to fight, but also to forge friendships and alliances. I have been in two medium size clans and I can tell you that 70% of the members of those clans were not PKers at all, but they enjoyed themselves and were tought to respect those who they fought.

 

 

 

I'm babbling a bit, but I would appreciate it if you made the distinction between Pkers and members of Clans, because they are a completely different "breed" of player.

 

 

 

Yes, I agree that the PKing community was a bit of a hellhole, but the Clan community is a wonderful place to be and I am sad that they have been dealt such a blow that they did not deserve.

 

I am confident they will make changes, yes, but it won't be the same.

 

 

 

Aside from my mumblings, I do enjoy reading your articles, wether I agree with your opinion or not, it still gives me a pleasant surprise to find out such intelligent people play Runescape. :oops:

[primadog]

A pleasant read as always, Qeltar. Just want to point out some humorous coincidence:

 

 

 

[Lux_Tenebrae]

Personally, I couldn't care less about PKing. What has me mad is that instead of installing detection code into the game and having a simple database cross check system as a back up, to catch the cheats, Jagex just assumed that all of it's subscribers are cheaters and put in the trade limit. Yes I have read the diary. Some if it I buy, but the rest is just excuses not to keep working on the problem. With the systems I just mentioned, Jagex could find all of the bots and autoers in the game within hours, and by watching the trade records, find the mains and the people doing business with them within days. That however would take ongoing work, the trade restrictions are a one time change and that's the end of it. No more work needed. Jagex saves the money it would cost to hire a database manager and install the softwere. Well good for them. The problem is that I am not a cheater. Why Is Jagex treating me like one? I pay my money to play the game, not deal with all the random events that stop me doing whatever I'm doing in the game and not to have Jagex tell me what I can trade and when I can trade it. With the trade system in place, we can kiss next Christmas goodbuy along with birthdays and any other gift giving events. Why, because Jagex would rather treat the people who keep them in business like criminals that have to do the work to stop the real criminals. Why should I keep giving money to people who have that little respect for there customers? After all, without us, Jagex is an empty office and a lot of unemployed people.

[qeltar]

Jonni, you make some very valid points, thank you. I do hope that Jagex will listen to the needs of clans and adjust things as they have claimed they will. I certainly will be watching and commenting.

[Dexek]

Aye, who would want bad rubbish anyways? :

 

 

 

Drop trading has always been against the rules in RuneScape, but despite that, it was carried out constantlyÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã

[ReapMe]

dis suxorz

 

i bout 2 g0 to jagex n use mangekyo sharingan en dem

[ego_scorpion]

Lastly, this attack on such a specific group of players, who undoubtedly make up a reasonable amount of jagex's paid subscriptions truly makes me sad to see how ridiculous the community has become. When i see people who enjoy skilling literally insulting and attacking those who preferred player to player combat, just because we are now in a vulnerable situation is disgusting. If they removed major aspects of your skilling enjoyment, I would be right there with you intelligently hoping for some sort of balance.

 

Dont worry, OP feels same way about merchants, stakers, and anyone who dindt get where they are by spending countless hours clicking like he did.

 

 

 

A good way fo describing the OP would be a self pompous, self righteous clown, but then again most people already call him that to his face or behind his back so its nothing new.

 

 

 

I actualy tried to be the better man, despite our differences I sent him a PM saying best of luck, you win, runescape will be like you want im quitting, to which he proceeded to respond with further insults and expressiong joy over me quitting.

 

 

 

For someone who is past his 50's I have to say the OP isnt very intelligent and certainly not the white caring high moral figure he proclaims himself to be. All it takes is to read one of his posts where he condemns everyone and everything he does not see worthy in his eyes. Somebody who is truely pure and good would never do that.

 

 

 

Everyone else who claim to enjoy his reads, look into meilis post and find it in yourself to laugh at yourself :)

[RoswellCrash]

Yeah great read!

 

 

 

I am most happy because I have a teamspeak server and I had a problem with people willingly giving out there passwords to people and being hacked, now this can still happen but as they can no longer drop trade & soon wont be able to trade stuff over it eliminates some of the desire to hack!

[qeltar]

Ah, more rubbish weighs in.. lovely...

 

 

 

 

Dont worry, OP feels same way about merchants, stakers, and anyone who dindt get where they are by spending countless hours clicking like he did.

 

 

I don't feel negatively towards reasonable honest merchants who filled a need, and people who staked moderate amounts of money for fun.

 

 

 

In fact, I wrote articles criticizing both the GE and the duel arena's excessive limitations.

 

 

 

But dishonest merchants like yourself who took advantage of people and engaged in price manipulation? Rubbish. And stakers who made millions and sold them for real world cash? Rubbish -- off to the curb with ya.

 

 

 

 

I actualy tried to be the better man, despite our differences I sent him a PM saying best of luck, you win, runescape will be like you want im quitting, to which he proceeded to respond with further insults and expressiong joy over me quitting.

 

 

You sent me a snarky PM saying that I should be happy that you would be quitting now, and I replied back simply saying that I would. It contained no insults whatsoever. Do you enjoy lying?

 

 

For someone who is past his 50's I have to say the OP isnt very intelligent and certainly not the white caring high moral figure he proclaims himself to be. All it takes is to read one of his posts where he condemns everyone and everything he does not see worthy in his eyes. Somebody who is truely pure and good would never do that.

 

 

I've never claimed to be "pure and good", and I'm not "past my 50s". Where do you come up with this nonsense?

 

 

 

At any rate, I thought you were quitting. Do you need help packing your bags? Do let me know if any of your hats need alching.

[x1992x]

[hide]

Ah, more rubbish weighs in.. lovely...

 

 

 

 

Dont worry, OP feels same way about merchants, stakers, and anyone who dindt get where they are by spending countless hours clicking like he did.

 

 

I don't feel negatively towards reasonable honest merchants who filled a need, and people who staked moderate amounts of money for fun.

 

 

 

In fact, I wrote articles criticizing both the GE and the duel arena's excessive limitations.

 

 

 

But dishonest merchants like yourself who took advantage of people and engaged in price manipulation? Rubbish. And stakers who made millions and sold them for real world cash? Rubbish -- off to the curb with ya.

 

 

 

 

I actualy tried to be the better man, despite our differences I sent him a PM saying best of luck, you win, runescape will be like you want im quitting, to which he proceeded to respond with further insults and expressiong joy over me quitting.

 

 

You sent me a snarky PM saying that I should be happy that you would be quitting now, and I replied back simply saying that I would. It contained no insults whatsoever. Do you enjoy lying?

 

 

For someone who is past his 50's I have to say the OP isnt very intelligent and certainly not the white caring high moral figure he proclaims himself to be. All it takes is to read one of his posts where he condemns everyone and everything he does not see worthy in his eyes. Somebody who is truely pure and good would never do that.

 

 

I've never claimed to be "pure and good", and I'm not "past my 50s". Where do you come up with this nonsense?

 

 

 

At any rate, I thought you were quitting. Do you need help packing your bags? Do let me know if any of your hats need alching.

[/hide]

 

 

 

show us the pm :D

 

 

 

i would happily help alching the burger king hats :XD:

 

 

 

anyway to topic:

 

 

 

anothe fine piece of work qeltar =D>

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

It must be a blue moon tonight, since I almost never agree with your editorials. However, this one is actually pretty concise, and I actually do like it.

 

 

 

Good work. Maybe your head's on tighter than I thought it was at first :P

[magekillr]

anyone who thinks merchanting is dead obviously cannot do simple mathematics

 

 

 

lemme put it to you the way Peter from Office Space put it:

 

 

 

fractions of a penny seems like nothing...who cares about that? multiply that fraction several thousand...even several million times

 

 

 

adds up now doesn't it?

 

 

 

know how the GE works, and you will have no problems exploiting it for profit.

 

 

 

i haven't interacted with a single player since it's come out (trading wise) and have made 150-200M :-w

 

 

 

Thats what i'm trying to explain in some other topic (how do you make money).

 

Nice one :-).

 

What Duke sais: dunno if its that difficult to understand how it works?

 

 

 

Before GE you could make bigger profits (higher than 5%), cut some

 

really nice unexpected deals.

 

 

 

Now its everything "en masse". Predictable, but also reliable, and no hassle of looking for buyers/sellers. Just put it in the GE, do something else tada. So as long as you got a few 100s of mill to invest, you can make tons of money selling and reselling some random item (coal, yews, pure ess, iron ore, runes, ...) at a 1-5gp profit.

 

 

 

precisely my friend.

 

 

 

and it's VERY easy to predict where things are going with it...

 

 

 

example: mahogany planks will drop tomorrow, pure rune essence will go up tomorrow, oak planks should stay neutral..they may rise/fall a tiny bit. chinchompas (regular) will stay the same/rise a little. red chinchompas will lower/stay the same. mostly all potions and herbs will fall.

 

 

 

name an item and i can tell you where it's going, and how long it will last.

 

 

 

i made 33M off of crystal keys because i knew the whole key would raise, the loop half would fall, the teeth half would raise...meaning buying the pieces separately would keep the crystal key value constant...waited until it hit max price (and i predicted it would top out at 74.5k...it did). sold all 3,000 crystal keys purchased at 60-64k each for 74.5k each...had a few left overs cause the key price dropped (as predicted) to 73.8k each...sold the final 100 for 73.5k each.

 

 

 

i'm glad the GE is here...it's a fairly simple concept...but not as simple as "old merchanting" was.

 

 

 

btw, sorry to any runecrafters for raising the price of your essence...that's my fault...i pretty much buy all of it for the max price so i single handedly control the market :-$

[berbatovsky]

Lastly, this attack on such a specific group of players, who undoubtedly make up a reasonable amount of jagex's paid subscriptions truly makes me sad to see how ridiculous the community has become. When i see people who enjoy skilling literally insulting and attacking those who preferred player to player combat, just because we are now in a vulnerable situation is disgusting. If they removed major aspects of your skilling enjoyment, I would be right there with you intelligently hoping for some sort of balance.

 

Dont worry, OP feels same way about merchants, stakers, and anyone who dindt get where they are by spending countless hours clicking like he did.

 

 

 

A good way fo describing the OP would be a self pompous, self righteous clown, but then again most people already call him that to his face or behind his back so its nothing new.

 

 

 

I actualy tried to be the better man, despite our differences I sent him a PM saying best of luck, you win, runescape will be like you want im quitting, to which he proceeded to respond with further insults and expressiong joy over me quitting.

 

 

 

For someone who is past his 50's I have to say the OP isnt very intelligent and certainly not the white caring high moral figure he proclaims himself to be. All it takes is to read one of his posts where he condemns everyone and everything he does not see worthy in his eyes. Somebody who is truely pure and good would never do that.

 

 

 

Everyone else who claim to enjoy his reads, look into meilis post and find it in yourself to laugh at yourself :)

 

 

 

I don't like your attitude EGO, I could care less if you staked/merched or whatever else, but when you come on these forums spouting this rudeness is pisses me off. Sure everyone posts some things that are rude and most probably regret it later (I certainly have in the recent past) BUT your attitude is appalling, anyone who disagrees with you gets flamed and you 'exaggerate' just a tad to make your point, your an extremist at heart and extremists get a big :shame: from me.

 

 

 

Either you aren't a native English speaker OR the part I've italicized of your quote is a nice insight into your mind.

[Sly_Wizard]

You mean to tell me that non-pure players never fought over resources? That only pures scammed people? That only pures drop traded? That pures were single-handedly financing bots (An incredible claim, to say the least, seeing as how the overwhelming majority of Runescape aren't pures)? What about abusive language outside of the wilderness?

 

 

 

I'm still waiting for an answer :

[berbatovsky]

You mean to tell me that non-pure players never fought over resources? That only pures scammed people? That only pures drop traded? That pures were single-handedly financing bots (An incredible claim, to say the least, seeing as how the overwhelming majority of Runescape aren't pures)? What about abusive language outside of the wilderness?

 

 

 

I'm still waiting for an answer :

 

 

 

I'll answer as best I or anyone can, with supposition:

 

 

 

I saw pure accounts as a microcosm of all accounts, with some nice pures who were helpful and kind but most were from the 'get rich or die trying' (damn you gangsta rap)school of thought. The fact is anyone whos been near pures in the wildy/duel arena/PC KNOWS that they rabble on like 10 year olds ('hey noob figt me my pure range will pwn u'). For the most part pures represented the worst of Runescape players. I'd say pures who weren't bragging/racist/ignorant/loud/rude were in the MINORITY.

 

 

 

Of course it impossible to say 'ALL pures were horrible' and I can't even say for SURE that the majority were because I'm sure I didn't come into contact with even 5% of all pures, but out of the pures I've 'met' 90% were absolute losers bragging and being rude, I can only go on what I see.

 

 

 

Qeltar never said that pures were the only players who did all that bad stuff he just said that they as a group were more prone to doing all that bad stuff.

 

 

 

Edit: If you really wanted an answer then there you have it, if you want a fight I'm afraid I'm not willing to oblige.

[qeltar]

You mean to tell me that non-pure players never fought over resources? That only pures scammed people? That only pures drop traded? That pures were single-handedly financing bots (An incredible claim, to say the least, seeing as how the overwhelming majority of Runescape aren't pures)? What about abusive language outside of the wilderness?

 

 

 

I'm still waiting for an answer :

 

 

 

Don't hold your breath, troll.

[Sly_Wizard]

Don't hold your breath, troll.

 

 

 

Trying to label me as a troll now, are you? How original. We both know the reason you won't respond is because you have no response which doesn't expose you are the biased, opinionated and ignorant person that you are. For someone who advocates the 'truth', you sure hate objectivism.

 

 

 

Subjectivity ftw!

 

 

 

Qeltar never said that pures were the only players who did all that bad stuff he just said that they as a group were more prone to doing all that bad stuff.

 

 

 

I'm not sure you know, but lemme' give you a little history lesson regarding Qeltar. A long time ago he decided to venture into the wilderness to slay green dragons, where he was unmercilessly killed by a pure. Since that time he's held an irrational dislike of pures and PK'ing, advocating numerous changes which would all but destroy both groups (He's even admitted as such). As far as he's concerned, PK'ing and pures are evil and all of Runescape problems stem from them. Never mind the fact that the 'facts' which he so desperately aims to convey but frequently ignores show differently. Oh well... I guess I'll just call him the FOX news of Runescape :mrgreen: He tells you what suits him and ignores what doesn't.

 

 

 

Oh, and for the record, he's an example of him blaming everything on one group of people:

 

 

 

People from all of these groups are making their voices heard, generally in a reasonable wayÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã

[Will H]

You are completely right Qeltar.

 

Surprising as it is, this whole thing actually makes sense. We can still do the vast majority of trading (albeit without the unbalanced type which was the intended target for destruction), but it's under a new title.

 

 

 

I'll call this the Great Runescape Detox of December '07. You're going to feel really weak and ill straight after a detox, but you will feel really healthy (and live longer) in the long run.

 

Nobody liked the idea that you had to be a pure to be successful in player versus player combat. It was a mockery of the pvp combat system.

 

Maybe some of these people who have been affected (namely stakers, merchanters, pures) needed a wake up call that they were doing something that was, albeit not illegal, somewhat negative towards the gaming community. The RWTers and RWT related autoers and gold farmers are destroyed. Forever. What a nice thought.

 

I agree with Qeltar and Jagex (An unlikely duo), this will be so much better for Runescape, and that people who quit may result in Runescape being a better game without them.

 

 

 

...hang on, does this mean that random events will soon be pointless?

[berbatovsky]

Don't hold your breath, troll.

 

 

 

Trying to label me as a troll now, are you? How original. We both know the reason you won't respond is because you have no response which doesn't expose you are the biased, opinionated and ignorant person that you are. For someone who advocates the 'truth', you sure hate objectivism.

 

 

 

Subjectivity ftw!

 

 

 

Qeltar never said that pures were the only players who did all that bad stuff he just said that they as a group were more prone to doing all that bad stuff.

 

 

 

I'm not sure you know, but lemme' give you a little history lesson regarding Qeltar. A long time ago he decided to venture into the wilderness to slay green dragons, where he was unmercilessly killed by a pure. Since that time he's held an irrational dislike of pures and PK'ing, advocating numerous changes which would all but destroy both groups(He's even admitted as such). As far as he's concerned, PK'ing and pures = Evil and all of Runescape problems stem from them. Never mind the fact that the 'facts' which he so desperately aims to convey but frequently ignores show differently. Oh well... I guess I'll just call him the FOX news of Runescape :mrgreen:

 

 

 

Oh, and for the record, he's an example of him blaming everything on one group of people:

 

 

 

People from all of these groups are making their voices heard, generally in a reasonable wayÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã