Smash Club.

[Inuashakent]

Kent, try reading the non-debating parts of a post, you idiot.

 

I did, and I thought you remembered that I posted before...

 

 

 

If you don't like tournament style, there is nothing wrong with that. However, we're choosing TOURNAMENT RULES. I really hope you can comprehend that. If we're doing friendlies, we don't mind stupid stages (except me) but we're signing up for a tournament...

[Macmaster92]

Ok I'll be civil, I do recognize why people dont like the hazardous stages, but I dont see why even some REAL tournaments dont have them. And it's not really luck based. If the person is dumb enough to walk into the hazard, then its their fault. If the person is smart enough to push them into the hazard, shows they have slight skill..

 

 

 

 

Not only do the stage hazards rely on luck, but they also completely throw off the momentum of the game and or players, which is unfair. It should take the skill of the players to throw off momentum, not the stage hazards I'll illustrate, lets say the momentum is going in your direction, suddenly a stage hazard comes, the momentum now switches to the other player. That player kills you and now you have to try and get by his brick wall of momentum he has built up, but wait! Another stage hazard comes further adding to your opponents momentum, in turn killing you. now your stuck 2 lives down and with very little morale to be able to win. At this point in the game many characters can purposely suicide with you and end the game. Does that sound like fair to you? :-s

 

If you don't understand what momentum is next time record your self playing and then watch, I think you'll understand what I mean. :geek:

 

 

 

Oh and I didn't go to the tournament. #-o I was just to busy that day and I wasn't nearly as prepared as I should have been. The good news is that I can now sign up for this Brawl Club tourney. :

[Ginger_Warrior]

I won't be signing up for the tourney, for four reasons which I have hidden for epic suspense.

 

[hide=1)]I haven't got a copy of Brawl[/hide][hide=2)]Even if I did, I've not played it in about a month[/hide][hide=3)]I promised not to enter any tourneys, being un-American[/hide][hide=4)]I think a league table would be a better structure. It's less binding, and the n00bs have something to aim for (I love you all really)[/hide]

[Soma2035]

You know, I really don't see why you guys bother having tournaments anymore. It was fun maybe the first time, but now there are less than 10 people who are even interested in it. You want to use official tournament rules, but you don't get those right either...

 

 

 

Also, RayOxide does raise some valid points, some that are acknowledged by the smash community.

 

 

 

Here are the standard tournament rules as far as stage picks go:

 

 

 

Neutral (Pretty much every tournament will allow these as the initial stage):

 

Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi's Island

 

 

 

Neutral / Counterpick (Tournaments usually place these stages in one category or another):

 

Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Pokemon Stadium (Melee)

 

 

 

Counterpick (The loser of the previous match can select one of these stages, or the neutral ones):

 

Brinstar (Melee), Corneria (Melee), Distant Planet, Frigate Orpheon, Green Hill Zone, Jungle Japes (Melee), Luigi's Mansion, Norfair, Picto Chat, Pirate Ship, Pokemon Stadium 2, Rainbow Cruise (Melee), Yoshi's Island (Melee)

 

 

 

Counterpick . Banned (Tournaments place these either under counterpick or banned):

 

Green Greens (Melee), Mario Circuit, Onett (Melee), Port Town Aero Dive, Skyworld

 

 

 

So... my point? I bolded the ones that have hazards, or major stage modifications. Note that Yoshi's Island, despite having a life saving blob thing, is actually a NEUTRAL stage. Halberd, despite the claw that attacks with little to no warning, and the cursor - beam, is considered either Neutral or Counterpick depending on the tournament. Look at the counterpicks, many of them have obvious hazards.

 

 

 

Why? Stages aren't always banned for Hazards. For example, Hyrule Temple (Melee) is BANNED. It has NO hazards, it has no changing parts. It's simply too large. The same applies to NPC. Tournaments don't ban NPC because of the Chimera. If the Chimera was the only fault, it would probably be a tournament legal stage. RayOxide is right, from a tournament perspective. A good player will never get caught by the Chimera if you put him alone on the stage. He'll only ever be hit by the Chimera because of his opponent's actions, be it pressuring him in that direction, or actively swinging him that way. Look at Picto Chat, with numerous powerful hazards. Frigate Orpheon with it's "hey let's go upside down and gimp all recoveries" is a counter pick. Corneria with the berserk Arwings is a counterpick. Brinstar and Norfair are both counterpicks despite the lava, and in Norfair's case, the lava streams and walls.

 

 

 

The thing with tournament rules is that you seem to be trying to establish your own set. That's pretty stupid, considering you don't really have a community of players. You have maybe half a dozen players. Do you really need to divide this number further by fighting over setting up your own tournament rules?

[ThurinEthir]

GW, a league table would great, except it would be too hard to keep track and all that. When my friends and I play, we kind of use a ranking system. The first time we played, we were all at 0. Every time you come in third or fourth, you subtract 1 from your score. If you come in first or second, you add 1. The only way this works is because we have four people keeping track, and it's in real life. It'd be pretty hard keeping track online.

 

Like most of us have agreed on, let's just use a list of good stages. FD, Battlefield, Smashville, Pokemon Stadium (ONE - from Melee), etc. -.-

 

Every stage has its flaws, some just suck more than others.

[Caxis]

You know, I really don't see why you guys bother having tournaments anymore. It was fun maybe the first time, but now there are less than 10 people who are even interested in it. You want to use official tournament rules, but you don't get those right either...

 

 

 

I've had fun with all the tournaments so far, and no one is being forced to enter either. I'm not trying to speak for anyone, but I think everyone who entered had fun too. I also don't see whats so bad with having small tourneys either, if it's small, it's small. As for the official rules, I'm using them as a guideline but there's obviously a problem there, and I'm open to any suggestions to make them better.

 

 

 

 

Also, RayOxide does raise some valid points, some that are acknowledged by the smash community.

 

 

 

I understand.

 

 

 

 

Here are the standard tournament rules as far as stage picks go:

 

 

 

Neutral (Pretty much every tournament will allow these as the initial stage):

 

Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi's Island

 

 

 

Neutral / Counterpick (Tournaments usually place these stages in one category or another):

 

Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, Lylat Cruise, Pokemon Stadium (Melee)

 

 

 

Counterpick (The loser of the previous match can select one of these stages, or the neutral ones):

 

Brinstar (Melee), Corneria (Melee), Distant Planet, Frigate Orpheon, Green Hill Zone, Jungle Japes (Melee), Luigi's Mansion, Norfair, Picto Chat, Pirate Ship, Pokemon Stadium 2, Rainbow Cruise (Melee), Yoshi's Island (Melee)

 

 

 

Counterpick . Banned (Tournaments place these either under counterpick or banned):

 

Green Greens (Melee), Mario Circuit, Onett (Melee), Port Town Aero Dive, Skyworld

 

 

 

So... my point? I bolded the ones that have hazards, or major stage modifications. Note that Yoshi's Island, despite having a life saving blob thing, is actually a NEUTRAL stage. Halberd, despite the claw that attacks with little to no warning, and the cursor - beam, is considered either Neutral or Counterpick depending on the tournament. Look at the counterpicks, many of them have obvious hazards.

 

 

 

Why? Stages aren't always banned for Hazards. For example, Hyrule Temple (Melee) is BANNED. It has NO hazards, it has no changing parts. It's simply too large. The same applies to NPC. Tournaments don't ban NPC because of the Chimera. If the Chimera was the only fault, it would probably be a tournament legal stage. RayOxide is right, from a tournament perspective. A good player will never get caught by the Chimera if you put him alone on the stage. He'll only ever be hit by the Chimera because of his opponent's actions, be it pressuring him in that direction, or actively swinging him that way. Look at Picto Chat, with numerous powerful hazards. Frigate Orpheon with it's "hey let's go upside down and gimp all recoveries" is a counter pick. Corneria with the berserk Arwings is a counterpick. Brinstar and Norfair are both counterpicks despite the lava, and in Norfair's case, the lava streams and walls.

 

 

 

 

 

True, but it is kind of difficult to counterpick online. Not everyone has a computer in the same room as their Wii. It is possible to have each player let the other know what stage they want to counterpick, or each player PM's a plan of stages. Like if I lose the first game, I want to counterpick (Stage), if I win, we go to your counterpick, etc.

 

 

 

I am thinking about adding some more stages like Norfair and Corneria, and everyone else can suggest some stages too. Even if the stages wouldn't be played on, it wouldn't hurt to add them.

 

 

 

 

The thing with tournament rules is that you seem to be trying to establish your own set. That's pretty stupid, considering you don't really have a community of players. You have maybe half a dozen players. Do you really need to divide this number further by fighting over setting up your own tournament rules?

 

 

 

I guess tournaments are better with a lot more players.. I could scrap this idea and we could do something else, like the league Ginger Warrior suggested.

[foolgool]

I"m sorry to say this ray, but please stop trying to argue... Yes you have an opinion, but most aren't logical in the typical "brawler"'s opinion. Don't make yourself look more like a fool and stop while you can still keep your dignity.

 

Hey, hey hey. Slow down on the insults there Ike.

 

 

 

I agree with Soma. We should just use the 4 starter stages and maybe vote(?) on 4 more stages to reach 8, which seems to be enough for our purposes.

 

By the way, I'm signing up for the tournament.

[JustAGamer]

Friend Code:4554-1519-4014

 

Timezone/location:CST

 

Availability: Majority of Weekends, occasional weekday 4-7 (depending on how much work I have to plow through.)

 

 

 

In case you were curious, I play (in order of my abilities with them): Snake, (yes, I play the overpowered dude. ;) ), Wolf, Lucas, Fox, Marth.

 

 

 

Sign me up for the tourny too please. :

[Inuashakent]

Friend Code:4554-1519-4014

 

Timezone/location:CST

 

Availability: Majority of Weekends, occasional weekday 4-7 (depending on how much work I have to plow through.)

 

 

 

In case you were curious, I play (in order of my abilities with them): Snake, (yes, I play the overpowered dude. ;) ), Wolf, Lucas, Fox, Marth.

 

 

 

Sign me up for the tourny too please. :

 

Woot, another Snake...r.

 

 

 

Soma, I skimmed your post, but I see you didn't with mine. I said that stages with hazards are allowed... but in a tourney of this size + no CP system in place, it's not unreasonable to say that there is no need for all stages.

 

 

 

Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise, Pokemon Stadium (Melee) should be the playable stages. For example, Corneria has extremely small edges, meaning that it's extremely easy to kill with Snake/GaW and other chars with nice up-kills. I'm pretty sure some chars can 1hk0 Jiggly consistantly...

 

 

 

Sure, if you lose, you should be allowed a counterpick. Hazards are definetely not the only criteria for a ban neither, obviously. We didn't deny that, but that's not the point we're debating on ATM. If we were, we would be discussing

 

 

 

* Stage hazards

 

* Edges

 

* Unfair advantages

 

 

 

And much, much more, but we don't even have enough intelligent posters anyways. Or, ones who have a pure SWF view, nor do we really need them. Why can't we just simplify it and just allow for Neutral stages? Seriously, all this is unneeded really, this is not a real tournament with no lag, a counterpick character/stage, etc.

 

 

 

And seriously, Soma, you've been coming here and bashing us for having tournament each and every time. Sure, it's not as active as before, but I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed to do a tourney, or even looked down because of it. It's not like we're forcing people to play.

 

 

 

However, we could do a league. We'd put me top, mano second, etc etc and then we'll keep shaping it to better form the skill, more than a tourney could. I don't know, a league seems like a good idea, and is more competetive and adds a less luck factor (eg Crazy running into Me first, and he loses to Ginger in losers because Ginger fought Mano although Crazy is clearly superior than last place...[Not saying you're worse, Crazy. Just an example])

 

 

 

Also, a league is much more constant and gives people more reason to play, and this is a pretty small community so it is extremely easy to manage. I'm in favor of this idea > tournament.

 

\ :thumbup: :thumbsup:

[Soma2035]

[hide=Wall of Text][/hide]

Friend Code:4554-1519-4014

 

Timezone/location:CST

 

Availability: Majority of Weekends, occasional weekday 4-7 (depending on how much work I have to plow through.)

 

 

 

In case you were curious, I play (in order of my abilities with them): Snake, (yes, I play the overpowered dude. ;) ), Wolf, Lucas, Fox, Marth.

 

 

 

Sign me up for the tourny too please. :

 

Woot, another Snake...r.

 

 

 

Soma, I skimmed your post, but I see you didn't with mine. I said that stages with hazards are allowed... but in a tourney of this size + no CP system in place, it's not unreasonable to say that there is no need for all stages.

 

 

 

Battlefield, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise, Pokemon Stadium (Melee) should be the playable stages. For example, Corneria has extremely small edges, meaning that it's extremely easy to kill with Snake/GaW and other chars with nice up-kills. I'm pretty sure some chars can 1hk0 Jiggly consistantly...

 

 

 

Sure, if you lose, you should be allowed a counterpick. Hazards are definetely not the only criteria for a ban neither, obviously. We didn't deny that, but that's not the point we're debating on ATM. If we were, we would be discussing

 

 

 

* Stage hazards

 

* Edges

 

* Unfair advantages

 

 

 

And much, much more, but we don't even have enough intelligent posters anyways. Or, ones who have a pure SWF view, nor do we really need them. Why can't we just simplify it and just allow for Neutral stages? Seriously, all this is unneeded really, this is not a real tournament with no lag, a counterpick character/stage, etc.

 

 

 

And seriously, Soma, you've been coming here and bashing us for having tournament each and every time. Sure, it's not as active as before, but I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed to do a tourney, or even looked down because of it. It's not like we're forcing people to play.

 

 

 

However, we could do a league. We'd put me top, mano second, etc etc and then we'll keep shaping it to better form the skill, more than a tourney could. I don't know, a league seems like a good idea, and is more competetive and adds a less luck factor (eg Crazy running into Me first, and he loses to Ginger in losers because Ginger fought Mano although Crazy is clearly superior than last place...[Not saying you're worse, Crazy. Just an example])

 

 

 

Also, a league is much more constant and gives people more reason to play, and this is a pretty small community so it is extremely easy to manage. I'm in favor of this idea > tournament.

 

\ :thumbup: :thumbsup:

[/hide]

 

 

 

If you think I'm bashing you for making a tournament, I think you misinterpreted my post. I'm bashing you for bashing each other. This tournament has already died down, and it's small enough already. Do you really have to make it smaller by arguing with each other more? New people who come and voice their opinions get beaten down. And even worse, they get beat down, the majority of the time, for the wrong reason.

 

 

 

I did read your post. And my post wasn't aimed at yours, it was aimed at people who said "Pmg it's too random so it's not good!!!" You are already down to a dozen or less people. I just found it absurd that when someone was interested in joining, he was flamed... by people who were even farther from the truth than he was.

 

 

 

Look at Ikeforever's post. I just find it silly to divide an already tiny group, over a debate, when the majority side is presenting incorrect arguments. Now if you think that's how this should be run, fine. That's just my 2 cents on the issue, feel free to ignore it.

[Inuashakent]

Whether the majority is incorrect is up for interpretation, as you must remember that there is no cp system. Let's just use neutral stages and end this debate?

[ikeforever]

I hate being pointed out of a crowd.. -.- I was just trying to make Ray just stop rebutting everything everyone has said, it was a pitiful discussion anyways, no offense Ray. :|

 

 

 

Good chance I can play for a while tommarow, but I'm not sure. I'll keep y'all posted..

[Crazykid1321]

A League? I'm in.

 

 

 

We can model after Pokemon Red/Blue tbh.

 

 

 

I call PSI Gym Leader.

 

 

 

Mano could be the Elite Four Champ, Kent could be Misty. Gallade is Brock. Caxis is Giovanni.

 

 

 

 

 

:D

 

 

 

Anyone want to Brawl?

[Caxis]

I'm up for some brawls Alex.

[Who]

A League? I'm in.

 

 

 

We can model after Pokemon Red/Blue tbh.

 

 

 

I call PSI Gym Leader.

 

 

 

Mano could be the Elite Four Champ, Kent could be Misty. Gallade is Brock. Caxis is Giovanni.

 

 

 

 

 

:D

 

 

 

Anyone want to Brawl?

 

I would be more like Lance (Dragons are win), and Kent would be Gary/Blue.

 

 

 

If Kent was Misty, then the rest wouldn't get many challengers :lol:

[Crazykid1321]

I think Kent would be the Bruno.

 

 

 

Ginger is a Bug Catcher.

 

-Getting on now Caxis. :twss:

 

 

 

I think I would be the Sabrina tbh. Psi owned in Pokemon Red/Blue anyways.

[Inuashakent]

Gym leaders?! I call Brock Obama!

[foolgool]

I can has Koga? Or someone? I don't really care, I'll be Brock if need be, because I suck

 

Lucas? Marth? Falco? Weegee?

 

No rhyme nor reason.

[PoorLepRecon]

Jeese, you guys are trying to relate this league to the pokemon league. You must be really bored :|

 

 

 

 

 

The league sounds interesting, but I missed the discussion up to this point, so I'm a little in the dark about it.

 

 

 

For the tournament, I guess I will join in this round. I no longer have soccer, and I only work weekends so I have free time during the weekdays now. Can someone explain Davids Stupid Rule? I don't want to go through smash boards to find it. (Caxis, you might just want to put a definition by it on the first page for anyone else who doesnt know)

[Crazykid1321]

Look's like I still suck.

 

 

 

Maybe I should give up on Low-Tiers, maybe use like ROB or Marth, hate them though. But to win..

[RayOxide]

@Ike, its not a pitiful discussion, it actually has some meaning, but knowing most brawlers are too serious to even care about something like this.

 

 

 

And thanks for saying I have a point Soma, but from what I've heard, only the first 2 lists of stages are used, and if 3rd and down are then its either in doubles or for fun.

 

People are just to sooky. (sooky is kinda australian and it means cry-babyish) Just admit it.

 

 

 

I do understand that people dont want to lose a tournament worth of real money just because of a stage hazard, but if you can read, I've said, It gets on my nerves seeing people having a huge cry over this subject.

 

 

 

@ the part about items compared to stage hazards, a stage is 20 times bigger than a player and the player can follow you. A stage hazard usually doesnt follow you at all, and with an item like a sword, an opponent can pick it up and chase you. Items like a pokeball, the pokemon attacks closest one / all.

 

 

 

Let us put an end to this by saying that we both have a decent arguement against this and that items and hazardous stages are more for fun than serious play.

 

It still annoys me though

 

 

 

Anyway didnt get a chance to 'brawl last night, so if I can tonight ima have some fun.

[Inuashakent]

I see... Because it's not as hard hurting as items, it's fine. No.

 

 

 

Ray, instead of calling us crybabies, why not read? THERE IS NO COUNTER PICK SYSTEM.

[RayOxide]

Getting hit by an item has a much higher chance. It's like getting hit by a player itself (with longrange attacks)

 

 

 

And at last sentence, I said freaking end this LONG ago.

 

Plus, You shouldnt tell ME to read more often, mister I-read-the-last-post-of-a-page-thus-getting-my-post-count.

 

I never said this tourney in general.

[Inuashakent]

Basically, just because it doesn't affect the game as much as items, it can not be ignored and put in a whole different category. They are both diversions, and thus should be taken out IF POSSIBLE. In real tourneys, this isn't really necessary as there are rules that regulate and exclude a lot of luck, and add in the skill called "counterpicking" (yes, it's considered skill) , but on WiFi with no CP system, there is no need for CP Stages.

 

 

 

I don't see any counter to this, besides "I want more stages available." There is no cp system... this basically means CP stages would be determined by luck (Wii randomizes), adding even more luck. CP stages are by far more benefitial to one character than neutral. (obviously)

 

 

 

So... What didn't I read?

[ikeforever]

IF there's going to be a league, I really want to participate. I sooo call Lt. Surge's gym in Vermillion City. As of right now it's closed for construction so move on to some other gym in a lame town.. haha jk.