Junk Trading: Acceptable, Practical Practice?

[Wachtwoord]

So at what point does something become "junk"... 20K cooked chickens to make a 100k profit would be considered junk because it's there really is no resale, so the player who ended up with it can't make up the difference that they spend over the GE prices. That would be a good junk item to use, but the issue with all of it is the practicality. Is collecting a large amount of junk in order to make a profit worth the effort?

 

 

 

Though in the end you end up with more coins, don't you think the above is comparable to junk that was easily obtained from making it or buying it? In doing that you spend money, and hence when it comes to trading time, the resale of that junk makes up for what you spent on it... not a profit.

 

I'm sorry, I don't think you've been listening to anything anybody has said in the thread. You might want to reread it, particularly the part about addy arrows (p++) from Kril.

 

 

 

As to your opening question, an item becomes junk when it cannot be sold on the GE due to the GE price being far higher than anything a reasonable person would be willing to pay.

 

Well, a few weeks someone posted a 99 fletching achievement in the rate this forum with maple longs (u). For the sole purpose to have junk for trades. Don't you agree that's just foolish? He could have had way more net worth (either in junk or in real cash) by just doing yews and used the rest of the time to make money. And then sell the items he wanted to sell for less money (because he wouldn't have had junk).

 

 

 

Obviously, it's a different story for those addy p++, javelins, etc.

[acowswrath]

If jagex fixed the ge prices, it would be gone. But yeah, I dont really think its that honest.

 

 

 

Once I saw some idiot on the RSOF "Buying all junk!" I think he wanted 100mills worth...

[Madmanpur3]

Junk trading is practical, logical, not wrong in any way...as long as JaGex fails to fix their broken machine.

[benar]

This is an obvious and redundant statement on my part, but yes, it's not like Jagex isn't aware of junk trading. Perhaps if they saw it as an issue they would have done something about it already. But then again, who says they aren't now?

[jettrider]

Well I don't think it matters if a person junk trades or not. They can still formate their own opinion about it based on their own knowledge of it. After all, you don't need to be a fish to catch one.

 

 

 

You can speculate about anything. It's perfectly fine to think about different, odd ways that could come under a topic.

 

 

 

If you want to discuss a practice, however, you need to discuss what the actual practice does and ask if that itself is practical. It looked to me like you wanted to discuss whether the current junk trading is practical, not if a hypothetical, super-slow method that would never be used in what you're trying to discuss.

 

 

 

The vast majority of people who junk trade got the junk in one of two ways:

 

• 
   
  [*:dgmgdi2u]They bought something that was higher than it's Grand Exchange price (for example, a top hat or animal mask). These are the most common case, merchants who deal in 3a, partyhats, and some treasure trail items. There is a clear line between those who deal in these items and those who don't, with the line being formed by one-time buyer/sellers who want a rare or get something from a Treasure Trail.
   
  [*:dgmgdi2u]They discover a good item for "junkmaking" and are able to create millions of coins worth of value per hour.

 

 

 

The cutoff, therefore, is creating value at a low rate. Is it crazy? Well, it actually doesn't happen much. People usually give up after finding out how much time and effort is needed to make the common junk items. You're left with a very small minority of people who don't value their time as much. That's their problem to deal with.

 

 

 

You answered your own question. Trying to get thousands of raw chicken to make 100k value is ridiculous and no one does it.

[benar]

Exactly! That rules out that method as impractical. (collecting junk at a low rate to save possible loss)

 

 

 

To be effective, you need to have a junk item that can be obtained easily...

 

 

 

Now how about an item that can be easily produced at no cost, but can still be sold afterwards. This would probably have to be a hypothetical item, because if there is an item like that, tell me :P .

 

 

 

If the item can be sold, then is it smarter to just make and sell that for a money source to get to where you want, or is it practical to use it as junk, and make a large profit on the items that you want to sell for more than the GE allows?

 

 

 

In any case, does it matter if the person you traded with does in fact eventually sell of the junk they were given?

[Alg]

Acceptable? At this point it seems to be the only accepted form of trading on big items...

 

Practical? Most people seem to actively seek out junk items to use in trades, not use skill byproducts. In the time it takes to get those items, think of all you could have done. What's the point of getting ~20m in junk if you could have spent that time getting actual money?

 

 

 

As long as people believe that the GE is broken, while doing nothing to get it fixed, it's going to stay.

 

 

 

It seems to just be a way to break the system for the sake of breaking the system. Is it really worth spending 70m, i on a Third Age mage hat that was 10m not long ago, and is it worth it for the seller to spend the effort on getting 60m in junk items?

[benar]

I believe the worst part is for people who don't like it is the fact that they really have no choice but to go with it... unless it's an item buyable on the GE.

[Infi]

Junk trading is practical because it is essentially a "coupon" on your purchase, and that junk is transfered to the next person, who will use that junk as a "coupon" discount off the next desired trade. It's essentially junk because no one wants it and will be continued to be passed along from owner to owner until that item value is fixed, in which case it is considered obsolete junk.

 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I absorbed from this discussion.

[benar]

Yes, that is very true, but the it depends on what you are buying. At one point you may not have enough junk. Also not aaaalll players will accept it, even if it is their only option.

[Infi]

Yes, that is very true, but the it depends on what you are buying. At one point you may not have enough junk. Also not aaaalll players will accept it, even if it is their only option.

 

Well, players have different options:

 

-Buy it off the price off the G.E. which is ridiculous

 

-Junk trade

 

 

 

If you do not have enough junk, then the player who is buying the specific item will be giving up MORE gp in that item, which is what the junk is there for and the trade won't probably go through by the choice of the buyer.

 

 

 

If there is TOO much junk and too little GP, then the seller would immediately opt to keep the item, because the junk has very little use and the seller is after a specific combination of junk/gp to accomodate his/her needs. If the seller needs more junk, they are welcome to set it at their own custom price - remember that the limit can go up to 30k leniency which is a lot of leeway for trades.

 

 

 

When you break it down, it's completely optional to partake in junk trading, there's always the GE, there's always equal trading through GP, and then there's junk trading. People who participate in junk trading usually know what their doing and I see no problem with it.

[acenator]

Acceptable? At this point it seems to be the only accepted form of trading on big items...

 

Practical? Most people seem to actively seek out junk items to use in trades, not use skill byproducts. In the time it takes to get those items, think of all you could have done. What's the point of getting ~20m in junk if you could have spent that time getting actual money?

 

 

 

As long as people believe that the GE is broken, while doing nothing to get it fixed, it's going to stay.

 

 

 

It seems to just be a way to break the system for the sake of breaking the system. Is it really worth spending 70m, i on a Third Age mage hat that was 10m not long ago, and is it worth it for the seller to spend the effort on getting 60m in junk items?

 

I agree with your statements about how wasteful it is to purposely go out and gather junk items. However, I have to disagree with the rest of your post.

 

 

 

The reason that the GE is broken is not that the players believe it is broken. It's the fact that the GE is incapable of keeping up with the player economy. If prices in the GE match those determined by supply and demand, then there simply wouldn't be a need for junk trading and people would use the GE because of how easy it would be in comparison to trading directly with other players.

 

 

 

As for your example of a 3rd Age Mage Hat, it evidently is worth it to those people who are buying them. If it weren't they, obviously, wouldn't be buying them at that price and sellers would have lowered their prices in order to find buyers. This also goes the other way around. If it weren't worth it for the sellers, then they simply wouldn't do it. It's simply supply and demand at work.

[benar]

I'm going to be honest. When I began this thread my opinion wasn't very well informed. I saw junk trading as a way to try and manipulate prices. But one an a half pages in brought me to the realization that yes... the GE is in fact broken and people are just junk trading to make a deal on a more accurate price.

 

 

 

Yes. If a person is going through with a junk trade to buy something, they probably aren't desperate, but agree with the price achieved with junk.

[hoffman44]

What exactly is junk trading?

[Alg]

Might be worth looking at the types of junk traded items.

 

Rares, 3a, other T Trail items... Expensive things.

[benar]

Those and whatever else the general population may think is incorrectly priced.

[green9090]

I'm going to be honest. When I began this thread my opinion wasn't very well informed. I saw junk trading as a way to try and manipulate prices. But one an a half pages in brought me to the realization that yes... the GE is in fact broken and people are just junk trading to make a deal on a more accurate price.

 

 

 

Yes. If a person is going through with a junk trade to buy something, they probably aren't desperate, but agree with the price achieved with junk.

 

This marks the first time I have ever seen somebody misinformed about junk trading admit it and change their mind! \

[Vuvuzela]

I don't mind junk trading at all. Mainly because most of the players didn't want a trade limit and have their expensive items set at prices lower then they should be. I think it's fine because the ge prices are not where the should be on some items, and if I had junk i would use it in a trade because i want to get the right prices for my items.

[benar]

Buy low, junk high. I always thought merchants were persistent enough to find a way.

 

 

 

So do you think it's a problem being addressed by Jagex?

[Soma2035]

So obviously there are certain items that make great junk, such as summoning scrolls and pouches, which are commonly used for the practice...

 

 

 

... But doesn't that mean if they are commonly used, they are having to be made and spent on for the sake of junk, and therefore no profit is made on the real item?

 

 

 

Why do people keep SAYING this? You can't sell junk for cash. Nobody will pay for it. THAT is what makes it junk. It doesn't matter that it has a use in junk trades, because it is NOT interchangeable with cash. Why is this concept so hard for some people?

 

 

 

Why do you people keep saying THAT!? Any item can be sold if the price is right. If the item is REALLY "junk", then no one would take it even for free, and that's what the price should be, free.

 

 

 

Example: Scrolls. Let's say they sell to the general store for 10 GP. Are you telling me no one would pay 1 GP for them? Sorry, but you're wrong. All it takes is some people posting "Hey new players, to make a quick buck, buy a few hundred thousand varied scrolls and sell them to the store for a sizeable profit."

 

 

 

If it REALLY is junk, then the price should be 0 gp. Fix the prices, and junk trading no longer exists.

[green9090]

So obviously there are certain items that make great junk, such as summoning scrolls and pouches, which are commonly used for the practice...

 

 

 

... But doesn't that mean if they are commonly used, they are having to be made and spent on for the sake of junk, and therefore no profit is made on the real item?

 

 

 

Why do people keep SAYING this? You can't sell junk for cash. Nobody will pay for it. THAT is what makes it junk. It doesn't matter that it has a use in junk trades, because it is NOT interchangeable with cash. Why is this concept so hard for some people?

 

 

 

Why do you people keep saying THAT!? Any item can be sold if the price is right. If the item is REALLY "junk", then no one would take it even for free, and that's what the price should be, free.

 

 

 

Example: Scrolls. Let's say they sell to the general store for 10 GP. Are you telling me no one would pay 1 GP for them? Sorry, but you're wrong. All it takes is some people posting "Hey new players, to make a quick buck, buy a few hundred thousand varied scrolls and sell them to the store for a sizeable profit."

 

 

 

If it REALLY is junk, then the price should be 0 gp. Fix the prices, and junk trading no longer exists.

 

The point he was trying to make was that the junk was worth money ON THE GE, which it isn't. Of course every single item has a price at which it will sell, it's just that the GE tends to miss it by a factor of 5 or more on some items.

[benar]

If a certain item becomes subject to junk trading, because it is underpriced on the GE, then how is that affecting the item's market? Just like old merchanting, isn't it... Where as the prices wouldn't necessarily change dramatically if it was solely being traded at GE price, I think that with the ability to get around that via junk, the current prices will be affected in an old-timed fashion.

[green9090]

If a certain item becomes subject to junk trading, because it is underpriced on the GE, then how is that affecting the item's market? Just like old merchanting, isn't it... Where as the prices wouldn't necessarily change dramatically if it was solely being traded at GE price, I think that with the ability to get around that via junk, the current prices will be affected in an old-timed fashion.

 

 

 

Junk generally doesn't change in price much unless Jagex notices and changes it. You see, the beauty of junk is that, just like the underpriced items like third age, nobody is dumb enough to trade them on the GE. Nobody wants to pay that much for addy arrows (p++) or addy javs. Ever. And if nobody trades them on the GE, it doesn't update.

 

 

 

Of course, this could easily be fixed by just fixing the GE. But there I go dreaming again.

[obfuscator]

fine unless used to rwt...

[Torlen]

I guess I dont understand the concept. If I buy an addy cane and 200k in junk for 500k, then I have the cane, and I have another 200k in junk THAT I CAN USE AGAIN IN ANOTHER TRADE. How is this unfair? All you are doing it turning a previously useless item into currency.