Junk Trading: Acceptable, Practical Practice?

[Moad14]

Junk-Trading is a fantastic idea! Are you kidding? To be able to cheat Jagex out of running our trade is absolutely priceless.

 

Now, I don't junk trade, it seems tainted to me. However, though I don't junk, I can understand why many people do. It's really the best of both worlds, as you can sell an item for far more (and occasionally less to a friend : ) than the restrictions placed upon us allow. Why sell your items for less than you can?

[benar]

You think its fantastic, yet tainted. Well, why is it tainted, in your opinion?

[loqk]

from this discussion it appears the term "junk" is a little misleading. what the properly done junk trades do is trade a large number of over valued items for a single large undervalued item.

 

 

 

for example (for illustration purposes only, none of these numbers are meant to be accurate)

 

 

 

if i feel that chickens are only worth 1gp and the grand exchange has them at 2gp,

 

 

 

and everyone else agrees, so no one will buy my 1 million chickens on the exchange for 2gp, then i have 1mil worth of chicken and 1mil of over priceing.

 

 

 

if i want a god sword that is priced 2mil, but i want to pay 3mil for it, it is 1mil underpriced.

 

 

 

if i trade all these at once, i get 1gp for each of my chickens (1mil) and pay 3mil for my godsword for a total of 4 mil. the trade sees that i have put in 2mil worth of chickens and bought a god sword for 2 mil for a total of 4 mill. both me and the trade system are happy, and so is my trade partner because he just bought 1mil worth of tradeable chicken (theoretically) and sold his godsword for 3mil.

 

 

 

it is true that my trade partner has effectively 2mil gp and 1mil of chickens worth aproximatly 0 and therefore i have sold my chickens at twice their value and bought the godsword at it's correct value, but if my trade partner can use these chickens in a further trade, then he will collect the full value of the godsword.

 

 

 

if he cannot offload the chickens, he has sold the sword at slightly above average price and has a stack of chicken to eat or dump.

 

 

 

it is sort of a gamble. if i sell on the exchange i make mean price +%5, if i sell for junk i may only make mean price +30k, or i might be able to sell the junk for mean price + 50%.

 

 

 

and eventually, an update like summoning may make my 1million chickens worth 100gp each in both value and exchange price, in which case i make mean price +50% + 100 mil

 

 

 

this is a long odds gamble, but worth it for some people.

 

 

 

on the other hand, like buisinesses that lose money for tax purposes, some people hear about these "junk" trades and try to make them while not understanding them. these people loose a good deal of potential money by selling "junk" at cost and then paying for the sword. in this case, the buyer gets the full worth of the eminantly sellable "junk" on top of the price of the sword and is very happy. :-)

 

 

 

for me, i'm not much of a people person, or merchant, i've been playing for a few years and am too high level and too rich (to mangle a simpsons quote) to bother making trouble for my self to buy items i don't use or need.

 

 

 

i just buy and sell on the exchange things that are profitable, and hoard or dump stuff that is not profitable.

 

 

 

hooray for earth!

 

 

 

ok, i'm done :-)

 

 

 

ps.

 

oh and if the prices were corrected overnight, the junk trader wouldn't have lost money as the 1million chickens would be worth their correct price of 1mil and the godsword worth it's correct price of 3 mill. so they would have the correct total of 4 mil

 

 

 

if the prices were corrected after a normal 2 mil trade for the godsword, his 2mil gp would stay the same price, but the godsword would now be worth 3 mil, thus i have gained 1mil gp in the trade and my trading partner has lost 1 mill in the trade

 

 

 

pps. i keep forgetting that he has the chickens and money and i have the godsword, so the above ps may be exactly wrong. if anyone else has a functional brain at this time of night and could correct my math, i'd be most greatful

[Mercifull]

Junk trading is sometimes completely neccessary to overcome to price barriers in the GE

 

 

 

Take black masks for instance, thanks to the new slayer update they skyrocketed in price, and are now dropping, with nobody wanting to buy one at the GE's price. Due to this, when i got one dropped from a cave horror task, it WOULD NOT have sold, unless I junk traded it, which i did. Luckily for me the "junk" was made up of willow logs, which i'm now burning for firemaking xp ;) so i got lucky

 

 

 

Essentially due to the GE's updating slowly it is needed, if the GE updated after every single transaction, then maybe an equilibrium could be maintained, but at the current state, it is propping up a damaged economy.

 

You are lying to yourself if you think that you wouldn't have been able to sell on the GE. I got two black masks while ppl were junk trading for 1m for only 550k. The graphs shows that the price is dropping to people are still using the GE as intended.

[jaoxim]

Junk trading is sometimes completely neccessary to overcome to price barriers in the GE

 

 

 

Take black masks for instance, thanks to the new slayer update they skyrocketed in price, and are now dropping, with nobody wanting to buy one at the GE's price. Due to this, when i got one dropped from a cave horror task, it WOULD NOT have sold, unless I junk traded it, which i did. Luckily for me the "junk" was made up of willow logs, which i'm now burning for firemaking xp ;) so i got lucky

 

 

 

Essentially due to the GE's updating slowly it is needed, if the GE updated after every single transaction, then maybe an equilibrium could be maintained, but at the current state, it is propping up a damaged economy.

 

You are lying to yourself if you think that you wouldn't have been able to sell on the GE. I got two black masks while ppl were junk trading for 1m for only 550k. The graphs shows that the price is dropping to people are still using the GE as intended.

 

 

 

Left on the GE for a couple of hours whilst i went off and did other things at minimum price didn't well it ;) maybe i was just on at a bad time, but the prices of black masks are now returning to about normal, albeit slowly. I would rather have most of the money + junk i can pass on quickly, or use myself than rely on the GE to potentially not sell my mask at all.

 

 

 

In my opinion i got a fair price for my mask, so i'm happy, and the person that got the mask cheaper than the GE is happy too, what I am saying is that if the GE updated after eery trade this would eliminate junk trading on many items, althought not very high value ones.

[De_Lille_D]

If you ask me, junk trading is bad.

 

Junk trading is simply bypassing the 3/30k trade limit. This isn't a good thing. There is a reason Jagex put in the trade limit: to get rid of RWT, macroes, scammers, ...

 

Sooner or later, you'll see more and more macroes, because people can just collect free junk and receive money for it, paying the macroes real money! I don't think Jagex will let this happen; they've worked too hard to get a fair game and they want to keep it that way.

 

 

 

So, either people stop using it, or Jagex will make it impossible to use...

 

 

 

Be careful what you do! Jagex can do A LOT more that will be even worse then removing wild.

 

Maybe they'll remove player tot player trades and replace it with the GE buying everything immideatly with set prices that will never change.

[halo475]

I am a huge fan of junk trading. I have got rid of all my pouches (turned into scrolls for more value) that i dont use from level 1 to 80 summoning through junk trading. I have also got rid of about 3k adddy arrows p++ through junk trading. They are worth 1kea and you get 300 at a time from the zammy gwd boss.

 

 

 

I bought 7 leaf bladed swords off the g.e for about 140k and sold them all for 500k+, all you have to do is update your price so your buying for max everyday and you do get items. Same goes for wild pies i have about 5000 of them all bought off g.e and they are going to keep on rising because they are *un-buyable*, i have also sold about 3000 more for 6kea through junk trading. For me junk makes summoning a profitable skill just buy making pouches.

 

 

 

I suppose you could say im ripping people off, if thats the case im only ripping lazy people off which is only fair, isn't it?

[MegaIfirit]

If you ask me, junk trading is bad.

 

Junk trading is simply bypassing the 3/30k trade limit. This isn't a good thing. There is a reason Jagex put in the trade limit: to get rid of RWT, macroes, scammers, ...

 

Sooner or later, you'll see more and more macroes, because people can just collect free junk and receive money for it, paying the macroes real money! I don't think Jagex will let this happen; they've worked too hard to get a fair game and they want to keep it that way.

 

 

 

So, either people stop using it, or Jagex will make it impossible to use...

 

 

 

Be careful what you do! Jagex can do A LOT more that will be even worse then removing wild.

 

Maybe they'll remove player tot player trades and replace it with the GE buying everything immideatly with set prices that will never change.

 

 

 

You're missing the point, all JaGeX has to do is update the price of the items, and we won't need to junk trade. Simple.

[green9090]

If you ask me, junk trading is bad.

 

Junk trading is simply bypassing the 3/30k trade limit. This isn't a good thing. There is a reason Jagex put in the trade limit: to get rid of RWT, macroes, scammers, ...

 

Sooner or later, you'll see more and more macroes, because people can just collect free junk and receive money for it, paying the macroes real money! I don't think Jagex will let this happen; they've worked too hard to get a fair game and they want to keep it that way.

 

 

 

So, either people stop using it, or Jagex will make it impossible to use...

 

 

 

Be careful what you do! Jagex can do A LOT more that will be even worse then removing wild.

 

Maybe they'll remove player tot player trades and replace it with the GE buying everything immideatly with set prices that will never change.

 

 

 

Here's how your logic works.

 

 

 

Say I pay a kid cash for raking my yard. Somebody tells me that this is horrible, because paying cash is how people buy and sell drugs! If I keep paying kids cash for chores, the government will take away cash and turn the economy into communism!

 

 

 

In other words, us using a system that could also be used for RWT doesn't mean we're promoting it. RWT could use this whether legitimate players did or not.

[turbofreak12]

I don't care if other's junk trade, I just don't want to end up with other people's junk. Therefore, I do almost all of my trading on the ge.

[meister14]

I haven't read though all eight pages of this topic but I did read three. From what I see, most of us agree that the General Exchange has it's flaws. In my opinion, Jagex has changed a capitalist economy into a socialist economy. The "government", which is Jagex, controls everything and this is not good for the people, which happens to be us. This quote doesn't actually correlate to this discussion but I think it fits in with the socialist point of view. A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.---Gerald R. Ford

[Maco]

The GE has always failed to adjust prices according to the true demand. For example, when the fist of guthix mini-game came out, it quickly became clear that using anchient magics was the best way to win. Unfortunatly, compared to other items, there are very few anchient staffs in the game. Now the law of supply and demand says that when demand goes way up, but supplys stays very low, the price increases. This is the problem with the GE, it increases its prices according to demand, more specificly, when somthing sells. So when there is a very limited amount of an item, the price will not go up enough quickly enough for players. The staffs which I have mentioned, were selling for close to 10x their normal value. This is why people junk trade, and I believe that it is acceptable, because of the GE's inablility to cope with the changes in supply and demand.

[bbjoe282]

really what is wrong with the way that the GE works is that it dosent adjust for price changes often enough. when a new item comes out like say the top hat the price was quickly established on forums but it took the GE days for its price to match.

[Melos]

I don't like the idea of Junk Trading to be honest. And I wouldn't trade with someone that uses it.

[Dallasc779]

i dont know why people would stock up on junk items to use for junk trading. yea it gets past the limit, but it just doesnt seem right.

[Soma2035]

i dont know why people would stock up on junk items to use for junk trading. yea it gets past the limit, but it just doesnt seem right.

 

 

 

What's not right about trading items at the incorrect price Jagex sets on them?

 

 

 

In order for junk to be useful, the junk items must have the incorrect price, and the item they're trading for must have an incorrect price. What's wrong with trading them together at their prices?

 

 

 

Most of us would prefer Jagex fix the damn prices, but if that's not possible, trading the items together seems to be only fair.

[Y2k949]

I agree that trading junk is not always a huge amount of extra money, and it does take a lot of work to do. However, you usually do get better value for your items and make some bit of extra profit. I think that the best way is to exchange pouches for shards, then when you have like 500k :wall: of them you need to use them for something. Junk trading is then something good to use them for.

 

I think that junk trading is good for cleaning out your bank, but is quike impractical for 50m+ trades.

[War_Junky_91]

Really i hate junk trades, just a way for the rich to become even richer. Sure yes the GE has its problems, some prices are wrong, but my god what do you expect when you change the ENTIRE ECONOMY And really the fact that Jagex hasn't fixed the prices yet i think really shows that they really don't think you need to be getting more money for those items. And the way people whine that you should be getting more money for the items, you sound like children.

 

 

 

Here is a little know fact: runescape it based on real life, A fact about life: life ain't fair, long story short: get over it and sell it GE price.

[Tribbleman]

To all of you who claim junk trading can be used for scamming: Almost ALL junk trades are done through the RS forums, meaning that BOTH parties (buyer and seller) agreed to the trade!

 

If you're (to put it softly) "unlucky" enough to get "scammed" by junk in a trade, at least you'll learn that people could easily replace that "junk" with real gp by selling it through the exchange if it was really sellable, and THEN buy whatever you're selling with actual gp.

 

 

 

The bottom line is, junk trades are 99% agreed to by both buyer and seller, and if you consider it scamming, just don't accept anything other than gp in your trades.

 

 

 

Hmmm..... This might just make everyone happy... :wall:

[gun_hippy]

Junk trading is, essentially scamming, but not players, jagex. They're causing us a lot of trouble, and making us pay more for stuff.

 

 

 

The laws of supply and demand dictate the prices of items (even if it is sold in a shop, all that means is that when supply is too small, the price will fall towards the shop price, and when supply is too high the price will drop below it, think runes: if NOBODY made a nature rune, the price of them would be the shop price, and stabalise there, if everybody made millions of them it would be considerably less). If something is hard to com by, the price is high, if it's easy to get, the price is low, that's how it is. Everybody knows this, but i figured it's important to say to make the point clearer.

 

 

 

Now the GE and junk things get...stupid. Lets take my sheep mask, i got it from a clue a month or so ago. I'm not sure how much it is on the street via junk trades, but i believe around 6m. If i'm wrong it doesn't matter, this is the theory i'm discussing not the specific example, so lets say it's worth 6m on the street right now. In the ge it's worth about 300k.

 

 

 

So what is the price of the item, i ask all you against junk trades? Is it 6m, 300k, or something else? I believe somethign else, but closer to 6m than 300k by a long shot.

 

 

 

The reason they're impossible to buy upon the grand excrement, is because they're very very hard to come by. If they where worth 300k, as the GE suggests and Jagex believes, then you would be able to get sales at the 300k price. That's just how an economy like the pre-GE days works, so obviously this price is wrong (if it was right, you would be able to buy it at 300k).

 

 

 

So why isn't it worth 6m? Because, i believe essentially, whilst that is the street price i am forced to do mroe than just sell it. I'm going to be selling it alongside junk which i have accumulated. This is awkward, and no matter what, a little time consuming. For the extra effort and awkwardness i'm going to want to put a slight overhead on the real price it should be worth. Call it a labour charge, you want the mask, i have one, but i have to spend time and effort making it happen.

 

 

 

So i think if the GE didn't exist, and free trade did, the mask would be more in the order of 5m.

 

 

 

So yes, i guess you could say people adding junk are scamming, but not really. They're adding a teeny bit onto the price to help cover the rediculous awkwardness they are forced to endure, thanks to Jagex' lax GE monitoring. I don't think it's really scamming, just meaning that i empathise with the point somewhat. However what's the alternative? The real price is, say 5m. I sell it on the ge for 300k. Jagex just robbed me of 4.7m because they don't bother to update prices. How bloody wonderful.

 

 

 

If you complete a trade, using junk, at either end, it isn't perfect for either of you. The seller had to accumulate said junk which is awkward, and the buyer had to play a slight overcharge for the effort. Everybody loses, thanks to the fact Jagex won't update their prices.

 

 

 

If i sell on the GE, i lose 4.7m that i should have had, i just got scammed hardcore. And the person who bought it just exploited Jagexs failure to manage the game properly.

 

 

 

So no, junk trading isn't perfect. It leaves the oppertunity to scam open. Probably opens a potential loophole for RWT. But it's a case of making the best of a rediculous situation.

 

 

 

If you're against junk trading, picture it like this. Lets say, for the hell of it, we where playing 2 years ago before all this problem. Lets say Jagex released a new guide in the knowledgebase! It was a "item prices" guide! Awesome! (and they implimented this int othe game in such a way it shows item value on the trade screen, just with no limits on how far one way or another a trade could go) Now lets say you just fished 10k sharks, and jagex had them listed as worth 50gp each. You know the real value of them on the street is 1k each. Are you going to sell them at 50gp each? HELL NO! You're going to go against what Jagex said thy're worth, and get your hard earned 10m. But what's that? You just scammed them! The trade window said the sharks are worth only 500k and you made them pay you 10m!

 

 

 

Is that scamming? or is that realising Jagex ballsed up and doing the best you can? If you stil lthink it's scamming, then hell, i guess you'll never see how any even simple economy like that in rs works.

 

 

 

Just because Jagex thinks item is worth X doesn't make it true. Jagex thinks my mask is 300k. It's not true, else i'd be able to buy it at 300k.

 

 

 

Also another side note. I agree it's difficult for Jagex to keep a tab on every single price of every item in the game 24/7. But they're doin g, essentially, nothing. All the animal masks, rares, godswords etc are way off, and it would take me literally half an hour socuting the forums to make a spreadsheet of all the correct prices. Not every item would be perfect, but it would make 99% of what people hate about the Ge disappear overnight.

 

 

 

If you hate junk tading passionately, tell me this. You just did a lvl 2 clue scroll and got a mask that sells for 6m. If the GE and trade caps never existed, it would sell for around that price. It is sellign for that price with junk right now. But jagex says you're only getting 300k for it. Wouldn't you be a little annoyed with Jagex now? And a little frustrated that the only way to get the cash you worked for is with a method like this, that inconviniencs absolutely everybody involved?

 

 

 

People use junk trades to get the prices they're owed, with their own varying overheads placed on top depending how annoyed they are they had to use junk.

 

 

 

Now using junk simply to rip people off, i agree is despicable. Junk or no, GE or no, the price of a whip is 1.5m, and easy to buy/sell on the ge, therefore anybody trying to sell for substantially mroe is as much a cheat as they would have been doing that 2 years ago.

 

 

 

Anyway, i only skim read this thread, but i am absolutely amazed by the fact some people detest junk trading. I've yet to see a properly constructed argument why though...

 

 

 

If anybody wants to tell me, type it out plain and clear like i have just done for the argument why it is neccessary, don't hide behind jokes and accusations. "it's bad cos its circumventing the 30k limit" is not an argument. That view, essentially, makes this MMORPG into what a single player rpg would be like if you had a chat program running at the same time. If we have no control over our own economy, it's stupid. If we can't sell and buy things for the prices they're worth, what would happen is everythign would settle into one of two groups:

 

 

 

a) thigns like 3rd aged now. Valued so low by jagex nobody with it wants to sell such a rare peice, therefore nobody can buy

 

B) things like, say, gold bars now. Valued so high, nobody can sell them because they're too expensive for people to have incentive to do so.

 

 

 

All i want is somebody to give me a legit argument why it's a bad thing to junk trade my mask for 6m, isntead of getting 300k for it on the ge right now.

 

 

I haven't sold it yet, thoguh i;ve had it months, largely because i cba collecting junk. Convince me what i should do.

[benar]

Junk trading is, essentially scamming, but not players, jagex. They're causing us a lot of trouble, and making us pay more for stuff.

 

 

 

They're not making us pay more... they are making us pay less, actually. We are utilizing junk in order to pay more accurate prices, which happen to be higher than what they are on the GE.

 

 

 

What Jagex is doing is that they're making everyone round up loads of junk to pay what we think is right.

 

 

 

That's the issue, along with whether it's right to do that, opposed to taking the prices we get on the GE.

[gun_hippy]

 

They're not making us pay more... they are making us pay less, actually. We are utilizing junk in order to pay more accurate prices, which happen to be higher than what they are on the GE.

 

 

 

Indeed, i did say that, that was lack of clarity on my part. I was stating we are paying slightly more in junk trades than the market price would be in reality, which is obviously a lot more than Jagex price.

 

 

 

I udnerstand precicely what you're saying, agree with it, and said it all...i just lack clarity, english was never my strong suit =(

[psvstef]

the time that player could set prices is gone,and alot of ppl wont accept that.

[benar]

Well, I don't think that time is gone, necessarily. Perhaps it's going to take a period of avid junk trading to get it through to Jagex what those prices should be.

[goldenramoth]

I don't even completely get what junk trading is. been fishing for so long. besides, I just play the G.E. like the stock exchange. So it's all good for me.