Junk Trading: Acceptable, Practical Practice?

[Wachtwoord]

Jagex will stop junk trading you can bet your life on it.

 

 

 

I can't see them stopping trading as this would impact the game far too much but I can see them reducing the flexibility of it. I mean it's easy to restrict one type of item per trade. That would force sellers to sell an item on its own and therefore get rid of junk trading. The only downside is people wouldn't be able to trade lots of items for 1 item but they already have the ability to make sets from armour, whose to say they won't utilize this even more? People could always sell the items for cash then pay via cash for a more expensive item.

 

 

 

Bottom line is though these items are just pixels in a game. All of which are owned by Jagex and if they say something is worth 30mil then it's worth 30mil. If it was real life you could do a dodgy deal with a man in a pub, but it isn't real life and there is no way to change the prices other than use the GE. As long as people are junk trading then the GE won't change.

 

Sometimes it seems that's exactly what Jagex thinks and that's also a very big part of the problem. Why do you think animal masks and top hats started so low? I remember a few weeks back, on the RSOF was a J-Mod post which said those items are undervalued, because they didn't want a select few to abuse those new items and become "unfairly" rich by it. So they just put up a low starting price and think it'll be all solved smoothly. Too bad it just doesn't work that way.

[Barihawk]

The problem is that Jagex seems to not notice that Junk trades are happening. The people watching GE prices see that most objects are moving and the people watching forums think that junk prices are correct, two different teams.

 

 

 

To the above, that sentiment is why they are going to hurt trading badly. They are trying to prevent people from becoming unfairly rich, which is happening a lot with this junk system.

[Karvinen]

Jagex will stop junk trading you can bet your life on it.

 

 

 

I can't see them stopping trading as this would impact the game far too much but I can see them reducing the flexibility of it. I mean it's easy to restrict one type of item per trade. That would force sellers to sell an item on its own and therefore get rid of junk trading. The only downside is people wouldn't be able to trade lots of items for 1 item but they already have the ability to make sets from armour, whose to say they won't utilize this even more? People could always sell the items for cash then pay via cash for a more expensive item.

 

 

 

Bottom line is though these items are just pixels in a game. All of which are owned by Jagex and if they say something is worth 30mil then it's worth 30mil. If it was real life you could do a dodgy deal with a man in a pub, but it isn't real life and there is no way to change the prices other than use the GE. As long as people are junk trading then the GE won't change.

The RuneScape players are not under mind control, so Jagex can't say that an item is worth 30 millions even though it is really 60 millions, unless they make an NPC shop sell it for that amount of money. For players it will be worth 30 millions RS money plus 30 millions converted into real money, if junk isn't available. Otherwise it would be impossible to buy that item.

 

 

 

The only correct way to stop junk trading and real money compensations is removing all price caps from GE. The caps only help (and force) real world trading. Since all trades are completed with random players, removing the caps will not make real world trading possible.

 

 

 

By the way, the price of an item is correct when supply and demand are equal (for example 100 sellers and 100 buyers). The price is obviously incorrect (too low) if there is 10 sellers and 200 buyers.

[acenator]

Bottom line is though these items are just pixels in a game. All of which are owned by Jagex and if they say something is worth 30mil then it's worth 30mil. If it was real life you could do a dodgy deal with a man in a pub, but it isn't real life and there is no way to change the prices other than use the GE. As long as people are junk trading then the GE won't change.

 

Jagex said they were going to leave control of prices and the economy in the hands of the players. So, no, what Jagex says does not go. This may be like a dictatorship, but even dictatorships, in order to have a thriving economy, must let supply and demand determine prices.

 

 

 

And have you ever thought about the simple fact that Jagex could go in and manually change prices and/or change the way the GE works in order to correct prices? Because I'm going to tell you right now that, for players to "fix" the GE by using it, it would cost them millions, if not bilions, of gp to get prices to where they should be and, even if they did that, there'd be no guarantee that the GE's prices would continue to reflect supply and demand.

[Mat]

this would make sense if it was ontopic, if an item is 250k on the ge and the item is worth 15mil, no one is going to use the ge to sell it

 

 

 

1) No item on the GE exists like that.

 

2) Where are you getting the 15M from, if an item happened to exist like that?

 

Cat mask is 400k on the GE, sold for more than 30m on the market.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, but 29.6m in junk...? That takes forever to gather. Then the person receiving the junk can use the 29.6m in junk for another trade. The person is not actually gaining more..

 

 

 

It is totally pointless way to trade, tbh.

 

 

 

Many people do not realize this, even if they do they choose to ignore it.

 

 

 

Oh well.

[Soma2035]

Every time I go on a Zamorak GWD Trip, I come out with 300-900 Adamant Arrows P++. These are worth no more than Adamant Arrows, because when training, the poison actually detracts from your experience. Also, it's far easier to gather mass amounts of arrows.

 

 

 

But the GE price for these KEEPS RISING. Why? Because they tied the price to Super Weapon Poison. Each arrow is now worth over 1K, like 1.5K last time I checked.

 

 

 

So let's say you get a cat mask. Why NOT throw in the 10k Adamant Arrow P++ you have now gathered up? Throw in some random stuff you made while training construction, the maple longbows you made with the wood you got from Miscellania, and now you get a good 20M for your item that would sell 250k on the exchange.

 

 

 

Just because it's 30M doesn't mean you have to gather 29M+ of junk, it just means you can sell up to 29M+ of junk you already have. Junk can also be accumulated in many, many ways.

 

 

 

What about the person I just sold the mask to? Let's say he gets incredibly lucky at God Wars, and fills his bank to the brim with gold. His friend is desperate to sell a red party hat, priced at 241M. He's already got this 19M+ of junk that I sold him, and probably 5M-10M of his own that he picked up here or there.

 

 

 

Junk trading would not exist if the GE followed supply and demand. If Jagex did the following:

 

 

 

- Raise the exchange limit from +/- 5% to +/- 30%

 

- Made prices update every 2 hours, based on DEMAND

 

- Remove ALL limits on GE prices

 

 

 

Then Junk trading would not exist, this system would flow perfectly smoothly, and there would be little to no additional risk of RWT.

[benar]

So obviously there are certain items that make great junk, such as summoning scrolls and pouches, which are commonly used for the practice...

 

 

 

... But doesn't that mean if they are commonly used, they are having to be made and spent on for the sake of junk, and therefore no profit is made on the real item?

 

 

 

And what does that all mean for the common junk items? How does that effect their market?

[green9090]

So obviously there are certain items that make great junk, such as summoning scrolls and pouches, which are commonly used for the practice...

 

 

 

... But doesn't that mean if they are commonly used, they are having to be made and spent on for the sake of junk, and therefore no profit is made on the real item?

 

 

 

Why do people keep SAYING this? You can't sell junk for cash. Nobody will pay for it. THAT is what makes it junk. It doesn't matter that it has a use in junk trades, because it is NOT interchangeable with cash. Why is this concept so hard for some people?

[benar]

So obviously there are certain items that make great junk, such as summoning scrolls and pouches, which are commonly used for the practice...

 

 

 

... But doesn't that mean if they are commonly used, they are having to be made and spent on for the sake of junk, and therefore no profit is made on the real item?

 

 

 

Why do people keep SAYING this? You can't sell junk for cash. Nobody will pay for it. THAT is what makes it junk. It doesn't matter that it has a use in junk trades, because it is NOT interchangeable with cash. Why is this concept so hard for some people?

 

 

 

Easy there hombre...

 

 

 

My point is not that those junk items are being bought... its that they are being made. All of those summoning pouches cost money out of your own pocket to be made. And of course it's not whether or not those items are truly worth something to other people. Yeah, obviously that is what makes them junk. It's about whether or not making/collecting those junk items is worth it, because you're spending to get them yourself, and then probably just selling them for an equal amount... making no profit

[green9090]

My point is not that those junk items are being bought... its that they are being made. All of those summoning pouches cost money out of your own pocket to be made.

 

 

 

Money people would have spent anyway, yes. What, you think the only point in training Summoning is making junk?

 

 

 

Of course, using most (but not all) pouches as junk has become pointless now that we can exchange them for shards.

[benar]

So at what point does something become "junk"... 20K cooked chickens to make a 100k profit would be considered junk because it's there really is no resale, so the player who ended up with it can't make up the difference that they spend over the GE prices. That would be a good junk item to use, but the issue with all of it is the practicality. Is collecting a large amount of junk in order to make a profit worth the effort?

 

 

 

Though in the end you end up with more coins, don't you think the above is comparable to junk that was easily obtained from making it or buying it? In doing that you spend money, and hence when it comes to trading time, the resale of that junk makes up for what you spent on it... not a profit.

[green9090]

So at what point does something become "junk"... 20K cooked chickens to make a 100k profit would be considered junk because it's there really is no resale, so the player who ended up with it can't make up the difference that they spend over the GE prices. That would be a good junk item to use, but the issue with all of it is the practicality. Is collecting a large amount of junk in order to make a profit worth the effort?

 

 

 

Though in the end you end up with more coins, don't you think the above is comparable to junk that was easily obtained from making it or buying it? In doing that you spend money, and hence when it comes to trading time, the resale of that junk makes up for what you spent on it... not a profit.

 

I'm sorry, I don't think you've been listening to anything anybody has said in the thread. You might want to reread it, particularly the part about addy arrows (p++) from Kril.

 

 

 

As to your opening question, an item becomes junk when it cannot be sold on the GE due to the GE price being far higher than anything a reasonable person would be willing to pay.

[benar]

Why do people keep SAYING this? You can't sell junk for cash. Nobody will pay for it. THAT is what makes it junk. It doesn't matter that it has a use in junk trades, because it is NOT interchangeable with cash. Why is this concept so hard for some people?

 

 

 

You're saying that you can't sell junk for cash, but that's just not true. If you trade a regular bone to somebody (and that is pretty junky), and they put up coins and accept, that piece of junk just got sold... for cash!

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is, when you make a real junk trade, that junk doesn't become the item you want to make a profit on. they doesn't integrate, merge or fuse. You are still selling that junk. What makes it a "profit" is that you didn't have to spend money on collecting all of it.

[Latinoking]

I dislike junk trades.

[benar]

As to your opening question, an item becomes junk when it cannot be sold on the GE due to the GE price being far higher than anything a reasonable person would be willing to pay.

 

 

 

That could be considered one form of junk. What about items that just don't have a market because of lack of demand, not having to do with the price. And in the end does it necessarily matter if the person can sell them again? If you have a way to make junk without spending extensive time doing it, and without spending anything at all on it, you would still make more money... but then we get back into the whole "items don't integrate" idea. Again, you'd just be selling individual items, just like selling a gilded plate body and, for example, maple logs. Junk or not, any item you put in alongside with that gilded plate will rase the worth to the other player. It's not raising the plate-body's worth.

 

 

 

Perhaps I am looking at this completely wrong and maybe I fail to grasp the bare-bones concept. But, as far as I'm concerned, there isn't just one way to junk trade, and not just one kind of junk.

[green9090]

Why do people keep SAYING this? You can't sell junk for cash. Nobody will pay for it. THAT is what makes it junk. It doesn't matter that it has a use in junk trades, because it is NOT interchangeable with cash. Why is this concept so hard for some people?

 

 

 

You're saying that you can't sell junk for cash, but that's just not true. If you trade a regular bone to somebody (and that is pretty junky), and they put up coins and accept, that piece of junk just got sold... for cash!

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is, when you make a real junk trade, that junk doesn't become the item you want to make a profit on. they doesn't integrate, merge or fuse. You are still selling that junk. What makes it a "profit" is that you didn't have to spend money on collecting all of it.

 

 

 

I don't know what the market is like on bones, but if you can throw in a few hundred on the GE at low and they sell, they aren't junk. That's the whole point of junk items. Now, go try to sell addy arrows (p++) for cash in any sort of bulk. Oh wait, you can't. That's why they're junk. Get it now?

 

 

 

The second part of your post has sufficient grammar errors that I honestly can't understand what you're trying to say. If you try again I'd be glad to try to respond.

 

 

 

I dislike junk trades.

 

 

 

I accept junk trading (I wouldn't say I like it, but it's a necessary evil as long as trading is stuck this way), and have valid reasons for my position. I'm not seeing any reasons from you, so excuse me if I completely dismiss your opinion.

 

 

 

As to your opening question, an item becomes junk when it cannot be sold on the GE due to the GE price being far higher than anything a reasonable person would be willing to pay.

 

 

 

That could be considered one form of junk. What about items that just don't have a market because of lack of demand, not having to do with the price. And in the end does it necessarily matter if the person can sell them again? If you have a way to make junk without spending extensive time doing it, and without spending anything at all on it, you would still make more money... but then we get back into the whole "items don't integrate" idea. Again, you'd just be selling individual items.

 

 

 

There's many different ways to look at it. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't just one way to junk trade, and not just one kind of junk.

 

 

 

This discussion isn't going to work very well if you make up your own definition for something I'm trying to defend. I'm not going to argue in favor of going out and gathering 100k cooked chickens, I'm sorry, that's not how real, non-made-up junk trading works. If you could shift your discussion to the reality of junk trading, rather than what you imagine it to be, you'll probably look a little bit smarter, and we'll be able to have a real discussion.

[benar]

You have contributed a sufficient amount to my thread, Green... but you are becoming very rude, and it'd be appreciated if you at least try and act like you value other peoples opinions. Otherwise, I'm going to have to ask you to not post here for some time.

 

 

 

Also, I'm not "making up" definitions here. I'm exploring the possibility of junk trading being objective, not cut and dry. Start considering that the reality of it isn't the only option. It's called open mindedness.

 

 

 

...and I think we've established the generally accepted definition of junk traded well enough to think about other possibilities anyway.

[walka92]

the GE doesnt always show what an item is truly worth, so sometimes you want to sell an item thats worth more than the ge thinks. in that case, junk trade. hell, the person who gets the junk can use it in another trade later

[green9090]

You have contributed a sufficient amount to my thread, Green... but you are becoming very rude, and it'd be appreciated if you at least try and act like you value other peoples opinions. Otherwise, I'm going to have to ask you to not post here for some time.

 

 

 

Also, I'm not "making up" definitions here. I'm exploring the possibility of junk trading being objective, not cut and dry. Start considering that the reality of it isn't the only option. It's called open mindedness.

 

 

 

...and I think we've established the generally accepted definition of junk traded well enough to think about other possibilities anyway.

 

 

 

Nice try wannabe modding, but you don't actually have the power to kick me off your thread. I don't value an opinion that is based blindly, and I refuse to pretend to. I do value opinions backed up with some sort of logic, even if I don't agree with it.

 

 

 

You can consider how people MIGHT junk trade all you want, but don't then act as though I've condoned what you've just imagined. If you see somebody actually doing these things, you can go argue with them about it, but I specifically support only the kind of junk trading that isn't ridiculously stupid.

[benar]

I didn't post this to label junk trading and be done with it, but rather to speculate. Please explain to me how anybody's opinion here is based blindly... It's already an opinion, so it has to be based on something. Just because it's based on an abstract concept that some fail to recognize doesn't make it "blind". That's why it's speculation.

 

 

 

Now, Im done with this. We are getting back to the main topic. Junk trading... acceptable and practical?

 

 

 

People: What is your opinion on junk trading? What defines junk? Is there more than one way to junk trade? Is the most common practice a practical one?

[green9090]

Junk trading... acceptable and practical?

 

 

 

Are we talking about real or imaginary junk trading? Real junk trading works fine and is used daily, and is an inevitable response to Jagex's broken GE.

 

 

 

Imaginary junk trading that nobody actually does is not worth discussing.

[benar]

At the moment we are talking about all possibilities. You know, the common kind and then the other ones which encompass other people's definition of junk.

[green9090]

At the moment we are talking about all possibilities. You know, the common kind and then the other ones which encompass other people's definition of junk.

 

I don't know if I count it as a definition of junk if the only people who use it don't junk trade.

[benar]

Well I don't think it matters if a person junk trades or not. They can still formate their own opinion about it based on their own knowledge of it. After all, you don't need to be a fish to catch one.

 

 

 

Now back on topic. If you don't have anything else that you haven't already said on this thread then please give somebody else a chance and stop trying to debate with me.

[green9090]

I can formulate my own ideas about how to drive well, but if I'm a six year old kid who only has riding in the back seat for experience, nobody's going to take me seriously. Similarly, if you've never junk traded, your definition of junk might not make a whole lot of sense to people who actually do it.

 

 

 

This is fine until you start telling people how wrong junk trading is based upon your definition, the same way the six year old has little grounds to instruct an adult that it's more effective to drive on the other side of the road.