Tip.It Times Presents: A Lack of Clarity, and Nerfing

[Wouter828]

I guess that the writer of this piece was trying to point out that Jagex does make a lot of mistakes unlike what you'd expect from a company which claims to be Java gaming experts.

 

 

 

And what's up with the 'did you know' section, who cares if you get a banana after the teleport random, that's like saying "Did you know: that when you talk to a genie random event, you get a lamp rewarding xp equal to 10x the level in your chosen skill?". Who cares? :roll:

[NukeMarine]

This article once again confuses exploits (emergent gameplay) with bugs (also emergent gameplay). When I say confuse, the article uses the "ban" word a lot.

 

 

 

Assume this: all people that abuse bugs will be banned. Stupid assumption as anyone that got two or more ghost speak amulets would be banned.

 

 

 

Assume this: all people that abuse a bug that A) hurt other players outside of PvP areas B) caused rapid XP or item gain (Waterfall quest bug great example) would be banned. Pretty good assumption.

 

 

 

Certain bugs are not exploits, but look cool. The moonwalk bug or sliding easter egg are good examples. No use in gameplay, but just look like fun.

 

 

 

Certain bugs become exploits, as they were unintended but gave players an advantage in playing the game. Great example would be the Crystal Bow exploit, or Boss sticky spots. Jagex, at their own whims, can fix these.

 

 

 

Certain bugs are abused, as they give unfair advantage or allow damage to other players where it's never intended. Duridal (sp?) with Construction, the Abyss on release, Waterfall quest allowing multiple quest rewards.

 

 

 

Certain bugs are deadly, but cannot be abused by players. The instant death at Juna's cave is a good example here. Ok, someone might have lured you down there, but that's another issue.

 

 

 

I doubt the article writer can point to a single case where players were banned cause they caused the Boss to not kill them. Yes, Jagex plugs the hole (Kalphite queen eating the cannon, Barrow Brothers walking through people, Random Events, etc.) but players up to that point kept the spoils. To abuse a bug means you have to use the "reasonable person" argument: Would a reasonable person think this bug should not be used as it'll harm other players or gameplay unreasonably. Oh look, I can get a million XP in 1 hour without spending a dime, sure Jagex intended that to happen. Oh look, I can kill people in my house and keep their drops, Jagex must have wanted this to happen.

[RSgamer]

Good read. Knew about the durial thing, and Jagex was decent enough not to do a roll back.

 

 

 

Some of these things really make you think. :)

 

 

 

OT: Blizzard doesn't exist anymore. It's Activision now. And this is coming from a friend of mine who plays WoW.

[3rkid]

Good read. Knew about the durial thing, and Jagex was decent enough not to do a roll back.

 

 

 

Some of these things really make you think. :)

 

 

 

OT: Blizzard doesn't exist anymore. It's Activision now. And this is coming from a friend of mine who plays WoW.

 

 

 

 

 

I've always wondered, could someone explain to be the advantages and disadvantages if Jagex had rolled back 6/6/06?

 

 

 

Another thing, why do people say not rolling back was decent?

[Soma2035]

Roll back would return items to the people who died. It would've made a significant difference to maybe 30 - 40 players. Every other player on that server will lose the events of perhaps the last hour or so, seeing as they'd need to roll back multiple back ups as it took them over 15 minutes to stop it. Perhaps 15 to 20 times the amount of players will lose their work in that hour.

 

 

 

For those several hundred other players, how would you feel about it? It's between a rock and a hard place. Either a few dozen players suffer, some of them REALLY hard, or most of the players, if not all the players suffer.

 

 

 

On top of that there is the issue of precedence. You can not set an example of you rolling back the entire server for a small amount of players who suffered a wrongly caused loss of items. Otherwise every time a player loses something thanks to a bug or glitch, they will demand, and rightfully deserve, a roll back. I personally don't want to play a game where I'm being rolled back once a week, and nothing I do is guaranteed to last.

 

 

 

Yes, it's a really painful loss of the victims of the unfortunate glitch. Unfortunately the only real solution hurts way too many others, and has great negative repercussions.

[das]

I think generally jagex does a great job with bug control.

 

 

 

Since july 2001, They have handled many bugs very well, such as the rock at the digsite that people mined in classic for insane xp. Overall for the content they release, They do a great job. The knife bug was handled well and the only bug I felt uneasy about was the paladin trapping bug, I feel quite a few people should of been banned for that one, but I am not sure if anyone was banned for it, but alot of classic people did use it, so it would of certainly been a massive banning unless they instilled an xp cutoff.

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex has swift handling of bugs and as a player I have 90 percent faith in their CS. I only have a 10% mistrust because of random stories.

 

 

 

Overall on nerfing, the whip/gmaul reductions were disappointingly, but I really do believe jagex does a superior job with their quality control/assurance.

 

 

 

If its possible, I would like to see a different way to "Save" your file to help prevent rollbacks.

 

 

 

Maybe some level 1 magic spell that casts an aura around updating the servers of your newest items and can only be done every 15 minutes?

 

 

 

 

 

In conclusion, since july 2001 the only complaint I have had with the game stems from the December updates and thats my inabilty to trade with close friends the way I would like to. But thats another article, another time :P

[Exploit]

WoW also doesn't get updated every week. They have more time than Jagex does.

 

 

 

They also have over 100 times the content in their game then Jagex does.

[3rkid]

WoW also doesn't get updated every week. They have more time than Jagex does.

 

 

 

They also have over 100 times the content in their game then Jagex does.

 

 

 

And 100 times the space on your computer.

 

 

 

 

 

(I'm exaggerating :oops:)

[hot_lips255]

I thin it's unfair to ban people who exploit glitches.It's Jagex's fault that that's possible!

[Dragon_lord]

I thin it's unfair to ban people who exploit glitches.It's Jagex's fault that that's possible!

 

Yes, because they're not human and they don't make mistakes.

 

Personally I think they should relax the Bug Abuse rule. A bug like having a familiar in the G.E might be cool, but it doesn't give you an "advantage" that you can use to gain anything.

 

In extreme cases like the Falador massacre they would have good reason to ban players, but they have to keep in mind that sometimes when people get golden opportunities like that, it's hard to resist. (free party hats, who would say no?)

[stormveritas]

I thin it's unfair to ban people who exploit glitches.It's Jagex's fault that that's possible!

 

 

 

It depends on the nature of the glitch abuse.

 

 

 

If you're exploiting something at the expense of others (Falador Massacre), then you are subject to a ban. You are acting maliciously and ruining the experience for other people.

 

 

 

If you're exploiting a bug that helps you make money on your own (like the Sara GWD boss bug), then you are simply doing what you can to improve your standing by using strategy. Jagex shouldn't ban you, they should hire you as a beta tester.

 

 

 

Consider the Corporeal Beast. Jagex has alluded to a "secret weakness" that helps people kill it, but the concensus so far is that the best "weakness" is just to bring a huge amount of people and swarm it, and even then it is a tough foe. If someone were to find an item that made the CB solo-possible, why should they not exploit it? Just because it was a poor design on Jagex' part doesn't mean we know definitively it was unintentional.

[Den]

I liked the article. :

 

Never been to the Sara GWD Boss but ive heard of all the glitches there. :P

[megam7]

In extreme cases like the Falador massacre they would have good reason to ban players, but they have to keep in mind that sometimes when people get golden opportunities like that, it's hard to resist. (free party hats, who would say no?)

 

ima use that as my siggy^^

 

anyways its about responsibility....he derserved to be banned

 

.....

[ogosooo]

I disagree with this article. It states, "They should hire more staff". However, remember that runescape has over 100 million players, and Jagex will never have that many testers. So it is highly likely that players will discover some glitches. Jagex may also rethink their decisions, so not all the things they change were "bugs" in the past. I completely agree with the fact that Jagex deleted the GWD safespots. If the safespots were kept, think of how easy the godsword would be to get. Then, why would it be worth it to kill the generals? What fun would runescape be without a challenge? I don't think Jagex has "nerfed" anything. At the end of the article it states, "Players are banned who have really done nothing wrong and they come out guns blazing, trying to hurt JAGEX.". Well it's the players fault that they "come out with their guns blazing". A ban doesn't have to be permanent, as long as you didn't do anything wrong. It also seems that the writer of the article is "coming out with their guns blazing" as do most people when Jagex makes any kind of update.

[Vincent]

common sense nowadays... of course bug abusers and glitch abusers know they are abusing a glitch/bug. seriously you would have to be seriously stupid to believe they didnt know; especially if they told you they didnt know it was a bug/glitch.

 

 

 

often players dont report bugs because they want to abuse them; simple as that. jagex can test things and they do; but 1 thing or another can and does get past; and that's where players come in. 1. it's against the rules to exploit a bug/glitch for unfair gain.

 

 

 

jagex gave you gwd'ers a huge break by not banning many accounts that DID abuse bugs. you and your friends should be thankful for that... i dont care for this topic or the accusatory tone; or the faux ignorance plea. get on with playing the game; report bugs/glitches and get off your high horse.

 

 

 

also to correct you; just because someone says they were banned for x doesnt mean they were banned for x. do you believe everything everyone tells you? always more to the story and check people's motives; do they want to look bad? or do they want to make someone else other than themselves look bad for their own dumb mistakes? if a murderer tells you he didnt know the gun was loaded do you believe him? and what is ironic is how the stupid and ignorant seem to think everyone else is even stupider than they are; stupid enough to believe their lies. and sadly some people are just that stupid.

 

 

 

and though i dont agree with some game adjustments; dont try to overlap the issue of nerfing with the separate issue of bug abuse. this editorial is another example from tipboards to further blur the line and literally promote a decline in game ethics and personal responsibility.

 

 

 

basically sending a message that game ethics, knowledge, and fair play arent important; holding cheaters accountable isnt important. it's more important to pacify cheaters and blame a games company for putting the "temptation" to cheat there and instead of promoting good gamesmanship by reporting bugs; we are to applaud those that abuse them? and then turn around and say jagex didnt test it enough; so it's jagex's fault they cheated? anything to take away from the PERSONAL responsibilty of the cheater.

[alokiller_1]

I was expecting the Durial event to be mentioned. Yes, it was a bug and he broke a rule by abusing the bug. But stop and think about it, who in Durial's situation could have resisted being able to get free party hats? Even if you say you wouldn't have done what he did, were you to have truly been in his shoes you would have done the same thing.

 

 

 

 

i see comments like this made all the time. when in reality many people had the opportunity to attack players and kill them for their valuables.

 

I aquired this ability personally, and did not go on a mass killing spree. While i will admit that i wish i would have, just to say i did it :twisted: but i would just like bring it to attention that a lot of people did have the ability to attack other players, and yet showed self restraint.

 

Im one player that literally lives for pking, and i could resist slaughtering inoccent people in falador. So ya :

 

 

 

on another note, an amazing read, i couldnt agree more with the author of this article. Although i do think a roleback should have happened after 6/6/06. i believe that was poor judgement on jagex's part =/

[Kimberly]

I like the Tip.It Times because they present topics that require lots of though and analysis of the subject. But...this article has a lot of biased and not a lot that the common population didn't know. Not to mention that all the while I read it, it felt like just a constant Jagex-bash.

 

 

 

Still, it was interesting to read.

[speedquick]

Like what many said, if you really do believe the fellas who said they were innocent, especially without evidence, that'll be you being stupid. :shame:

[pulli23]

Like what many said, if you really do believe the fellas who said they were innocent, especially without evidence, that'll be you being stupid. :shame:

 

Wait: so we have to prove our innocence these days?

 

 

 

Seems like the world is upside down! YOU ARE ALWAYS UNGUILTY FOR ANYTHING UNTILL PROVEN OTHERWISE!

 

 

 

This is one of the most basic rules to a clean goverment: it prevents power abusal!

[cuba_caramel]

Like what many said, if you really do believe the fellas who said they were innocent, especially without evidence, that'll be you being stupid. :shame:

 

Wait: so we have to prove our innocence these days?

 

 

 

Seems like the world is upside down! YOU ARE ALWAYS UNGUILTY FOR ANYTHING UNTILL PROVEN OTHERWISE!

 

 

 

This is one of the most basic rules to a clean goverment: it prevents power abusal!

 

What he says is that Jagex had prove that you did something wrong... So tbh there is no reason we should believe banned people saying that they didn't do anything...

 

I don't say that every single ban is fair, but we have no reason to trust those who have been banned...

[Ravenkana]

Like what many said, if you really do believe the fellas who said they were innocent, especially without evidence, that'll be you being stupid. :shame:

 

Wait: so we have to prove our innocence these days?

 

 

 

Seems like the world is upside down! YOU ARE ALWAYS UNGUILTY FOR ANYTHING UNTILL PROVEN OTHERWISE!

 

 

 

This is one of the most basic rules to a clean goverment: it prevents power abusal!

 

What he says is that Jagex had prove that you did something wrong... So tbh there is no reason we should believe banned people saying that they didn't do anything...

 

I don't say that every single ban is fair, but we have no reason to trust those who have been banned...

But what reason do we have to believe Jagex? Their track record isn't all that clean... They don't usually lie outright, but they're a HUGE fan of weasel words. Remember the exciting new PKing games? Or, more recently, the quest that was supposed to completely revolutionize Firemaking? I also remember them banning some guy for his name, despite him having played for 3 years. The name in question would take a dirty and/or juvenile mind to see it as offensive.

[Kimberly]

But what reason do we have to believe Jagex? Their track record isn't all that clean... They don't usually lie outright, but they're a HUGE fan of weasel words. Remember the exciting new PKing games? Or, more recently, the quest that was supposed to completely revolutionize Firemaking? I also remember them banning some guy for his name, despite him having played for 3 years. The name in question would take a dirty and/or juvenile mind to see it as offensive.

 

 

 

By that same coin, neither is the track record of a banned person.

 

 

 

We're still waiting on Jagex to deliver when it comes to Pking minigames. Yes, Fist of Guthix was a little bit of a flop, but they've got more in the works. And a quest they said would revolutionize firemaking? That's just a blatant lie. Here's what the REAL news article actually said about the quest and its rewards.

 

 

 

So begins All Fired Up, a sizzling new quest that acts as a simple and very short tutorial for beacon lighting. What can you do with large cauldrons full of sticks, you may ask? Well, your task, if you should choose to accept it, will be to light as many as possible at one time, offering you an entertaining and alternative method for training your Firemaking - oh, and the rewards will make you the toast of firemakers everywhere...

 

 

 

I don't see how they mislead there. Yes, beacon lighting gave an ALTERNATIVE METHOD to training FM. And who wouldn't be excited about exp-boosting items and a woodcutting axe that burned as it went?!

 

 

 

As for those names you bring up, I confess, I'm not aware of them. I do know that the 'compensation' they offer is meager in comparison to what you lose sometimes. Yet how is that in the same coin as bug abuse? It's an unfair matter, to be sure, but not exactly related to ingame bugs.

[cuba_caramel]

But what reason do we have to believe Jagex? Their track record isn't all that clean... They don't usually lie outright, but they're a HUGE fan of weasel words. Remember the exciting new PKing games? Or, more recently, the quest that was supposed to completely revolutionize Firemaking? I also remember them banning some guy for his name, despite him having played for 3 years. The name in question would take a dirty and/or juvenile mind to see it as offensive.

 

 

 

By that same coin, neither is the track record of a banned person.

 

 

 

We're still waiting on Jagex to deliver when it comes to Pking minigames. Yes, Fist of Guthix was a little bit of a flop, but they've got more in the works. And a quest they said would revolutionize firemaking? That's just a blatant lie. Here's what the REAL news article actually said about the quest and its rewards.

 

 

 

So begins All Fired Up, a sizzling new quest that acts as a simple and very short tutorial for beacon lighting. What can you do with large cauldrons full of sticks, you may ask? Well, your task, if you should choose to accept it, will be to light as many as possible at one time, offering you an entertaining and alternative method for training your Firemaking - oh, and the rewards will make you the toast of firemakers everywhere...

 

 

 

I don't see how they mislead there. Yes, beacon lighting gave an ALTERNATIVE METHOD to training FM. And who wouldn't be excited about exp-boosting items and a woodcutting axe that burned as it went?!

 

 

 

As for those names you bring up, I confess, I'm not aware of them. I do know that the 'compensation' they offer is meager in comparison to what you lose sometimes. Yet how is that in the same coin as bug abuse? It's an unfair matter, to be sure, but not exactly related to ingame bugs.

 

Word ^^ I don't say that Jagex doesn't make mistakes, but mostly there is a reason they ban people... They are not stupid...

[Lock813]

I actually did get a familiar into g.e. once, and i think the bug was fixed, and am thankful i was not banned like other people i know. I was fighting white knights with a spirit wolf familiar, ran a bit, and called the familiar the second it died, and the familiar followed me but was not bound to me, so it followed me into the grand exchange, half the ppl freaked, i laughed while trying to figure out what the heck i did, because i had a dog and a familiar following me into the grand exchange. the bug was fixed before the day was done, i posted it on forums right after i went to g.e., and tried again the day after that, and the familiar just died.

[bfg_omicron]

I personally think that the only "bugs" people should be banned or punished in any way for are ones that provide an obvious unfair advantage over other people playing the game, or ones that let a player do something that is most definitely something they shouldn't be able to do. I think that finding methods of killing a boss, say, that aren't true glitches or glaring faults in the programming should not be frowned upon or looked at as "bug abuse". For example, regarding the quoted text within the article about the Saradomin GWD boss, the methods people discovered should not be considered "bugs" or "glitches". Those are simply examples of people using their own ingenuity and skill to assist them in doing something that would otherwise be very difficult. Now, if there was a true glitch that, for the sake of an example, upon being exploited allowed a player to not lose any HP when hit by the boss, THAT is the kind of "bug" that I think should definitely be fixed. But players being clever and finding safespots where they might not have been intended should not, in my view, be considered a "bug".