Mod Mat K & Manipulator clans Debate

[Me_Hate_Libs]

What is the 26k trick? Thanks.

 

So I asked this question...

 

1) Two people get together

 

2) They go to a pvp world and sit in a hotspot (attacking each other with weapons that they can't kill each other with; I heard most of these methods are no longer possible, but I'm not sure) with just enough stuff on them to make the system increase their chances for a good drop

 

3) After a while, one kills the other hoping for a good drop

 

4) Then they repeat the process but switch roles

 

5) Profit

 

 

 

Actually, it goes more like:

 

1) Two people get together

 

2) They go to a pvp world and sit in a hotspot (attacking each other with weapons that they can't kill each other with; I heard most of these methods are no longer possible, but I'm not sure) with just enough stuff on them to make the system increase their chances for a good drop

 

3) After a while, one kills the other hoping for a good drop

 

4) Then they repeat the process but switch roles

 

5) ???

 

6) Profit!

 

 

 

Maybe this explains why your character has no underwear in Runescape? :thumbsup:

[magzar]

goldmerch (or should i say, goldestmerch) is on the run. goldmerch's account is locked and they are treating it almost as a state of emergency. i was talking to several of the ranked people in the chat. one of whom (a silver star) said that there is a possibility of them starting an irc chat and trying to keep a low profile in runescape. i'm not sure how this will work because jagex can obviously monitor manipulation. also, the goldmerch propaganda people are saying that it is simply a "cap" and that all items have capped. he is stating that jagex did not step in. #-o

 

 

 

 

 

The guy from goldmerch I've been talking to wants to take the clan in a new direction and teach players how to merch for themselves instead of manipulating. He seemed to only be getting limited support from other members though.

 

 

 

Personally I think it could be a great idea to teach people who really want to make money buy merching, how to do it without buyouts or other forms of manipulation, so I really support what he's trying to do.

 

 

 

@ Me_hate_libs How do you know what I've got underneath my fancypants?

[noble_aloof]

goldmerch (or should i say, goldestmerch) is on the run. goldmerch's account is locked and they are treating it almost as a state of emergency. i was talking to several of the ranked people in the chat. one of whom (a silver star) said that there is a possibility of them starting an irc chat and trying to keep a low profile in runescape. i'm not sure how this will work because jagex can obviously monitor manipulation. also, the goldmerch propaganda people are saying that it is simply a "cap" and that all items have capped. he is stating that jagex did not step in. #-o

 

 

 

 

 

The guy from goldmerch I've been talking to wants to take the clan in a new direction and teach players how to merch for themselves instead of manipulating. He seemed to only be getting limited support from other members though.

 

 

 

Personally I think it could be a great idea to teach people who really want to make money buy merching, how to do it without buyouts or other forms of manipulation, so I really support what he's trying to do.

 

 

 

 

you posted this before, right?

 

i'm in one of these "legit" clans where EVERYBODY knows how to merchant and the members rarely even work together. lately we've been getting people who say "what is the item?". we reply "we don't manipulate" he says "hahahhaha yeah right"

 

its actually depressing, then again, i can see why the "members" (or should i say 'leechers') of goldmerch don't want to BE TAUGHT how to merch. they're all 11.

[magzar]

goldmerch (or should i say, goldestmerch) is on the run. goldmerch's account is locked and they are treating it almost as a state of emergency. i was talking to several of the ranked people in the chat. one of whom (a silver star) said that there is a possibility of them starting an irc chat and trying to keep a low profile in runescape. i'm not sure how this will work because jagex can obviously monitor manipulation. also, the goldmerch propaganda people are saying that it is simply a "cap" and that all items have capped. he is stating that jagex did not step in. #-o

 

 

 

 

 

The guy from goldmerch I've been talking to wants to take the clan in a new direction and teach players how to merch for themselves instead of manipulating. He seemed to only be getting limited support from other members though.

 

 

 

Personally I think it could be a great idea to teach people who really want to make money buy merching, how to do it without buyouts or other forms of manipulation, so I really support what he's trying to do.

 

 

 

 

you posted this before, right?

 

i'm in one of these "legit" clans where EVERYBODY knows how to merchant and the members rarely even work together. lately we've been getting people who say "what is the item?". we reply "we don't manipulate" he says "hahahhaha yeah right"

 

its actually depressing, then again, i can see why the "members" (or should i say 'leechers') of goldmerch don't want to BE TAUGHT how to merch. they're all 11.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeh, some of these kids just don't get it. If i was into merching i would probably join a clan like yours. I mean, I know how to do it, I've just always preferred to earn my gold by playing the game. Merching to me seems way too much like working and i don't even want a game to feel like work.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

goldmerch (or should i say, goldestmerch) is on the run. goldmerch's account is locked and they are treating it almost as a state of emergency. i was talking to several of the ranked people in the chat. one of whom (a silver star) said that there is a possibility of them starting an irc chat and trying to keep a low profile in runescape. i'm not sure how this will work because jagex can obviously monitor manipulation. also, the goldmerch propaganda people are saying that it is simply a "cap" and that all items have capped. he is stating that jagex did not step in. #-o

 

 

 

 

 

The guy from goldmerch I've been talking to wants to take the clan in a new direction and teach players how to merch for themselves instead of manipulating. He seemed to only be getting limited support from other members though.

 

 

 

Personally I think it could be a great idea to teach people who really want to make money buy merching, how to do it without buyouts or other forms of manipulation, so I really support what he's trying to do.

 

 

 

@ Me_hate_libs How do you know what I've got underneath my fancypants?

 

 

 

I got these cool X-ray specs I bought out of the back of a Spiderman magazine for only $1.50 plus shipping and handling

[noble_aloof]

goldmerch (or should i say, goldestmerch) is on the run. goldmerch's account is locked and they are treating it almost as a state of emergency. i was talking to several of the ranked people in the chat. one of whom (a silver star) said that there is a possibility of them starting an irc chat and trying to keep a low profile in runescape. i'm not sure how this will work because jagex can obviously monitor manipulation. also, the goldmerch propaganda people are saying that it is simply a "cap" and that all items have capped. he is stating that jagex did not step in. #-o

 

 

 

 

 

The guy from goldmerch I've been talking to wants to take the clan in a new direction and teach players how to merch for themselves instead of manipulating. He seemed to only be getting limited support from other members though.

 

 

 

Personally I think it could be a great idea to teach people who really want to make money buy merching, how to do it without buyouts or other forms of manipulation, so I really support what he's trying to do.

 

 

 

 

you posted this before, right?

 

i'm in one of these "legit" clans where EVERYBODY knows how to merchant and the members rarely even work together. lately we've been getting people who say "what is the item?". we reply "we don't manipulate" he says "hahahhaha yeah right"

 

its actually depressing, then again, i can see why the "members" (or should i say 'leechers') of goldmerch don't want to BE TAUGHT how to merch. they're all 11.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeh, some of these kids just don't get it. If i was into merching i would probably join a clan like yours. I mean, I know how to do it, I've just always preferred to earn my gold by playing the game. Merching to me seems way too much like working and i don't even want a game to feel like work.

 

 

 

yeah. i see your point. i'm not merching until i EARN 10mil (recovering from my hack :cry: ). when i merched last summer, i felt like it was somewhat tedious checking the price everyday. to be honest it was also stressful.. what if my investment crashed?

 

your welcome in the chat "cellerdoor" if your ever interested.. we rarely even talk about merching.

[n64jive]

I've been reading through this thread all day while I was at work, and I have had a lot of time to read through the different arguments, and I am going to keep this post short because this thread is long enough due to all the different tangents that people have gone off on:

 

 

 

1.Don't compare runescape laws to real life laws, because you make a moot point. If you wan't to do that, then you would have to quit playing the game all together because of all the laws you break every day in runescape world(killing people, harvesting raw materials of land that doesn't belong to you...the list goes on)..btw, real life laws only apply to the nation governing them. I'm pretty sure that gleinor(sp) is not located within the United States. Let me say this again, PLEASE STOP!

 

 

 

2. I'm pretty sure that Merch clan's don't make prices rise by buying out an item. Pretty much what happens is the item changes hands between clan members at max price multiple times. Jagex's system is governed by traffic and price in relation to base price(median, mid..etc). If these clans banded together to buy out an item, then more power to them(although this is more difficult then it seems, which I why I don't believe this is the true cause of manipulation). People have been hoarding items since I have played runescape(spring 2002), the only reason that clans are needed now if because of the buying caps Jagex put on them(which the reason for these caps are obvious, the ge makes it much easier to hoard then before, but the great merchanters still did this.) I really wish that Duke, R2, Chewy, etc. would still be around to post how they used to Merchant. Each one a solo merchant, which so many of you support, yet many of them hated at the time because the general consensus was that they inflated prices(which may have been true at first, but in reality they created competition, which causes stable prices).

 

 

 

3.This plays into two, but solo merch's are just a less efficient form of the merch clan. Because of Jagex's caps, it becomes difficult to obtain a large quantity of an item. For instance, 1 billion in Rune essence would take nearly 59 days at the current price.(25k every 4 hours, 113 per ess...do the math:PS if you think this is ridiculous, I tried investing 100m into essence when they were 110 a pop, but I got owned by Duke Freedom and ended up losing money..mainly because he had much, much more invested and was able to make bigger profits)...Merchant clans just cause a faster return on your investment, which is no where against Jagex's rules, regardless if it's price manipulation or not, which leads into 4...

 

 

 

4. PRICE MANIPULATION IS NOT AGAINST JAGEX'S RULES...This is the game of telephone at it's finest. Back in the day, it used to be against Jagex's rules to post on the forums the following "Hey, everyone Santa's are going to rise, buy them now!!"...Jagex made this rule to combat spam on their forums. They gave them the term "price manipulation threads" and outlawed their use. So to all of you who are fine print readers, the key word is "thread". Btw, this point is valid on or before 6/8/09.

 

 

 

So much for keeping it short, but here are a few endnotes.

 

 

 

1. If you can't buy an item because it is being manipulated(which isn't that hard to do, you just have to buy for the max at an inflated price, and it takes a little longer, but you should receive it by the end of the day...I've never had trouble), instead of ranting and raging about it, gather the item yourself and sell for the inflated price. Then, do this until the item crashes, and then buy the item at the min prices and enjoy the profit. Or you could always do something else. I'm not telling you how to play, just like you shouldn't tell those who, as nathaninch said, are mearly buying and selling at the GE.

 

 

 

Please don't restate your views to me and why it's hurting the RS economy, because one day you will realize it's a game, and manipulating a games economy not as serious as manipulating a real economy. In fact, it's almost like experimenting. I'd say study it, rather than whine about it.

 

 

 

Again, I don't have the money to price manipulate or partake, so my views are entirely unbiased. I will not shed a tear if Jagex sets up restriction, and I will not get mad when the restriction cause me to feel...restricted. It's a moot point to say that Runescape was it's best during rsc and the early stages of rs2, and has been declining since the RWT updates, but it is truely how I feel.

 

 

 

Hindsight is 20/20

[Gribbzldinho]

 

1.Don't compare runescape laws to real life laws, because you make a moot point. If you wan't to do that, then you would have to quit playing the game all together because of all the laws you break every day in runescape world(killing people, harvesting raw materials of land that doesn't belong to you...the list goes on)..btw, real life laws only apply to the nation governing them. I'm pretty sure that gleinor(sp) is not located within the United States. Let me say this again, PLEASE STOP!

 

 

 

 

I think thats more people trying to feed their egos with business jargon. I seriously lol at some people who have a GCSE or an A Level in Business Studies (UK people will get that), trying to look like some highly successful business entrepreneur by making some completely irrelevent comparisons from RS to RL :lol:

[Cinos]

1.Don't compare runescape laws to real life laws, because you make a moot point. If you wan't to do that, then you would have to quit playing the game all together because of all the laws you break every day in runescape world(killing people, harvesting raw materials of land that doesn't belong to you...the list goes on)..btw, real life laws only apply to the nation governing them. I'm pretty sure that gleinor(sp) is not located within the United States. Let me say this again, PLEASE STOP!

 

 

 

 

Stated in Jagex rules that hints at manipulation being wrong and said earlier in this topic that mod MMG said price manipulation is a problem.

 

 

 

2. I'm pretty sure that Merch clan's don't make prices rise by buying out an item. Pretty much what happens is the item changes hands between clan members at max price multiple times. Jagex's system is governed by traffic and price in relation to base price(median, mid..etc). If these clans banded together to buy out an item, then more power to them(although this is more difficult then it seems, which I why I don't believe this is the true cause of manipulation). People have been hoarding items since I have played runescape(spring 2002), the only reason that clans are needed now if because of the buying caps Jagex put on them(which the reason for these caps are obvious, the ge makes it much easier to hoard then before, but the great merchanters still did this.) I really wish that Duke, R2, Chewy, etc. would still be around to post how they used to Merchant. Each one a solo merchant, which so many of you support, yet many of them hated at the time because the general consensus was that they inflated prices(which may have been true at first, but in reality they created competition, which causes stable prices).

 

 

 

 

Ermmm the item bought out makes more offers for max = price of item goes up. If an item is being bought for max its unlikely someone else in the merchanting clan will recieve the item for max but some legitimate buyer trying to buy it and if said item isn't being merchanted then the buyer of the item to be merchanted will likely get some random persons item for around the price it is then instead of the max price item the seller put in.

 

 

 

3.This plays into two, but solo merch's are just a less efficient form of the merch clan. Because of Jagex's caps, it becomes difficult to obtain a large quantity of an item. For instance, 1 billion in Rune essence would take nearly 59 days at the current price.(25k every 4 hours, 113 per ess...do the math:PS if you think this is ridiculous, I tried investing 100m into essence when they were 110 a pop, but I got owned by Duke Freedom and ended up losing money..mainly because he had much, much more invested and was able to make bigger profits)...Merchant clans just cause a faster return on your investment, which is no where against Jagex's rules, regardless if it's price manipulation or not, which leads into 4...

 

 

 

buying out an item to force its price go up, you are manipulating the cost of said item = you are manipulating that item.

 

 

 

4. PRICE MANIPULATION IS NOT AGAINST JAGEX'S RULES...This is the game of telephone at it's finest. Back in the day, it used to be against Jagex's rules to post on the forums the following "Hey, everyone Santa's are going to rise, buy them now!!"...Jagex made this rule to combat spam on their forums. They gave them the term "price manipulation threads" and outlawed their use. So to all of you who are fine print readers, the key word is "thread". Btw, this point is valid on or before 6/8/09.

 

 

 

 

lol wut? Nice facts you posted but it doesn't say anything on why it's not against the jagex rules. Read my first point.

 

 

 

1. If you can't buy an item because it is being manipulated(which isn't that hard to do, you just have to buy for the max at an inflated price, and it takes a little longer, but you should receive it by the end of the day...I've never had trouble), instead of ranting and raging about it, gather the item yourself and sell for the inflated price. Then, do this until the item crashes, and then buy the item at the min prices and enjoy the profit. Or you could always do something else. I'm not telling you how to play, just like you shouldn't tell those who, as nathaninch said, are mearly buying and selling at the GE.

 

 

 

We shouldn't have to be forced to buy an item for an inflated price that it isn't really worth, it can take days or even weeks for an item to return back to it's original price for example with tooth halves.

[canadiansmurf]

Nice post n64jive!

 

 

 

Quote:

 

4. PRICE MANIPULATION IS NOT AGAINST JAGEX'S RULES...This is the game of telephone at it's finest. Back in the day, it used to be against Jagex's rules to post on the forums the following "Hey, everyone Santa's are going to rise, buy them now!!"...Jagex made this rule to combat spam on their forums. They gave them the term "price manipulation threads" and outlawed their use. So to all of you who are fine print readers, the key word is "thread". Btw, this point is valid on or before 6/8/09.

 

 

 

 

 

lol wut? Nice facts you posted but it doesn't say anything on why it's not against the jagex rules. Read my first point.

 

 

 

Stated in Jagex rules that hints at manipulation being wrong and said earlier in this topic that mod MMG said price manipulation is a problem.[/color]

 

 

 

Saying Jagex "hints at" or ONE MOD considers something a "problem" does NOT make it against the rules. There is no official rule that says it's not allowed and like njive64 said price manipulation ONLY has to do with threads that were used to artificially raise prices of santa hats etc. Now with the GE there are NO natural price rises, ALL price raises are artifical thats just how the GE mechanism works. Most prices are not stable post-GE, and prices do not follow natural patterns of demand that existed before the GE. The game economics are too messed up, and not all the fault or blame can be pointed to merchant clans.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:

 

1. If you can't buy an item because it is being manipulated(which isn't that hard to do, you just have to buy for the max at an inflated price, and it takes a little longer, but you should receive it by the end of the day...I've never had trouble), instead of ranting and raging about it, gather the item yourself and sell for the inflated price. Then, do this until the item crashes, and then buy the item at the min prices and enjoy the profit. Or you could always do something else. I'm not telling you how to play, just like you shouldn't tell those who, as nathaninch said, are mearly buying and selling at the GE.

 

 

 

We shouldn't have to be forced to buy an item for an inflated price that it isn't really worth, it can take days or even weeks for an item to return back to it's original price for example with tooth halves.What is the true worth of anything? NO ONE will agree to this and someone will always overpay will another person will want to underpay.

 

 

 

Why is it that you must have your tooth half? Are the thousands of other rs items whose price hasn't risen not enough for you?

 

 

 

Guess what? Sometimes you will not be able to buy what you want, at that point go to the forums, offer to buy with junk and voila you get the item. Or be self-sufficient and less lazy and go and get the item yourself.

 

 

 

And for those that complain that they aren't able to buy basic items like pots on the GE, without mercher's you STILL won't be able to. Like people have posted on this thread skillers are sitting on a lot of what they have produced because the potion prices are far too low.

 

 

 

GE bottlenecks and not being able to buy items on the GE are GE flaws and supply and demand issues.

[n64jive]

[hide=]

1.Don't compare runescape laws to real life laws, because you make a moot point. If you wan't to do that, then you would have to quit playing the game all together because of all the laws you break every day in runescape world(killing people, harvesting raw materials of land that doesn't belong to you...the list goes on)..btw, real life laws only apply to the nation governing them. I'm pretty sure that gleinor(sp) is not located within the United States. Let me say this again, PLEASE STOP!

 

 

 

 

Stated in Jagex rules that hints at manipulation being wrong and said earlier in this topic that mod MMG said price manipulation is a problem.

 

 

 

2. I'm pretty sure that Merch clan's don't make prices rise by buying out an item. Pretty much what happens is the item changes hands between clan members at max price multiple times. Jagex's system is governed by traffic and price in relation to base price(median, mid..etc). If these clans banded together to buy out an item, then more power to them(although this is more difficult then it seems, which I why I don't believe this is the true cause of manipulation). People have been hoarding items since I have played runescape(spring 2002), the only reason that clans are needed now if because of the buying caps Jagex put on them(which the reason for these caps are obvious, the ge makes it much easier to hoard then before, but the great merchanters still did this.) I really wish that Duke, R2, Chewy, etc. would still be around to post how they used to Merchant. Each one a solo merchant, which so many of you support, yet many of them hated at the time because the general consensus was that they inflated prices(which may have been true at first, but in reality they created competition, which causes stable prices).

 

 

 

 

Ermmm the item bought out makes more offers for max = price of item goes up. If an item is being bought for max its unlikely someone else in the merchanting clan will recieve the item for max but some legitimate buyer trying to buy it and if said item isn't being merchanted then the buyer of the item to be merchanted will likely get some random persons item for around the price it is then instead of the max price item the seller put in.

 

 

 

3.This plays into two, but solo merch's are just a less efficient form of the merch clan. Because of Jagex's caps, it becomes difficult to obtain a large quantity of an item. For instance, 1 billion in Rune essence would take nearly 59 days at the current price.(25k every 4 hours, 113 per ess...do the math:PS if you think this is ridiculous, I tried investing 100m into essence when they were 110 a pop, but I got owned by Duke Freedom and ended up losing money..mainly because he had much, much more invested and was able to make bigger profits)...Merchant clans just cause a faster return on your investment, which is no where against Jagex's rules, regardless if it's price manipulation or not, which leads into 4...

 

 

 

buying out an item to force its price go up, you are manipulating the cost of said item = you are manipulating that item.

 

 

 

4. PRICE MANIPULATION IS NOT AGAINST JAGEX'S RULES...This is the game of telephone at it's finest. Back in the day, it used to be against Jagex's rules to post on the forums the following "Hey, everyone Santa's are going to rise, buy them now!!"...Jagex made this rule to combat spam on their forums. They gave them the term "price manipulation threads" and outlawed their use. So to all of you who are fine print readers, the key word is "thread". Btw, this point is valid on or before 6/8/09.

 

 

 

 

lol wut? Nice facts you posted but it doesn't say anything on why it's not against the jagex rules. Read my first point.

 

 

 

1. If you can't buy an item because it is being manipulated(which isn't that hard to do, you just have to buy for the max at an inflated price, and it takes a little longer, but you should receive it by the end of the day...I've never had trouble), instead of ranting and raging about it, gather the item yourself and sell for the inflated price. Then, do this until the item crashes, and then buy the item at the min prices and enjoy the profit. Or you could always do something else. I'm not telling you how to play, just like you shouldn't tell those who, as nathaninch said, are mearly buying and selling at the GE.

 

 

 

We shouldn't have to be forced to buy an item for an inflated price that it isn't really worth, it can take days or even weeks for an item to return back to it's original price for example with tooth halves.

[/hide]

 

 

 

1. If Jagex feels it's a problem, they will change it. Jagex has already killed off many aspects of this game that made it great in order to battle rwt(I understand their motives)...No one is going to quit because of price manipulation, however if jagex continues to limit trade, this game is going to become more of rpg+chat then an MMORPG.

 

 

 

4. I don't see in Jagex's rules it says you can slay dragons, does this mean dragon slaying is against the rules? Rules genuinely say what you can't do, not what you can. Prove to me where it says items can't be manipulated. Like I said, at this point, they are playing "legitimately".

 

 

 

2+3. Items which don't have much of a demand initially, (uncut dragonstones), are continuously rebought by the clan members at first until they get a trend going. Others are brought in, and this is when the leaders quit buying. They then sell whenever they feel like it. Sure it craps on the little guy, but so does a lot of things in runescape. I attack greens that lower levels are attacking and kill them faster. A nice guy would let them have it, but I need to make the most out of my time(and I don't have much)...

 

 

 

To be honest, I don't care what process it goes through, Price manipulation is not against Jagex's rules. People have the idea that Jagex ended RWT because it "hurt the economy"...that was maybe one of their points, but the real case was the fact people were getting in trouble because they were buying RS gold with stolen credit cards and jagex was receiving the blame (Which is [cabbage], which just goes to show some real-life laws are dumb as well)...

 

 

 

Follow up 1: Who is this we? Again you're arguing against yourself...Until jagex nerfs/outlaws price manipulating, you have no right to argue that they ruin the way you play the game. 1. They hinder it, they don't ruin it, which as said I can hinder the way many people play without going against the rules, and 2. You could hinder the way they make money...buy a bunch of limps, and sell at min...you'll lose a crap ton of GP, but the prices won't raise...

[magzar]

N64 are you being intentionally thick?

 

 

 

We have a statement in the knowledge base saying that Jagex will intervene in the case of price manipulation, also we have a statement buy MMG, who if you aren't aware is the CEO of Jagex, saying that Price manipulation is a problem and that they intend to do something about it. On top of that it's a highly disruptive way of playing the game, and commonly damages the playing experience for other players.

 

 

 

You would have to have the intelligence of my shoe to believe that they consider it to be ok. While it may not be stated directly in the rules, there is more than a sufficient amount of evidence to show that it is not a practice which Jagex deems to be "ok." There are times in life when you have to read between the lines and use a little bit of common sense.

 

Take this for example:

 

 

 

There is no law that says "don't put a truckload of donkey heads into a catapult and fire them at your neighbor's house," but obviously that's not ok.

 

 

 

While I do agree that often real world issues do not translate to Runescape, that is not always the case. There are numerable instances where parallels do exist, this being one of them.

 

 

 

As far as how Manipulation clans work, you obviously don't have a clear understanding.

 

 

 

Manipulation clans buyout stocks FORCING prices to rise artificially due to the new false demand, as opposed to buying and reselling moderate amounts of stocks in order to resell when and if that stock's price naturally rises through increased demand. It is a dishonest and unethical practice, whether it be in game or in real life. There is a distinct reason why it's illegal in real life, as it causes the same kind of harm to people as it does in Runescape.

 

 

 

As for your argument about how murder is illegal and yet we have pking, you seem to forget that in runescape, YOU RESPAWN. If you respawned in real life, I imagine murder wouldn't really be that big a deal.

 

 

 

Stealing from other players is against the rules.(don't even bring up the thieving skill, stealing from an NPC is not even close to the same thing.)

 

Defrauding another player is against the rules.

 

Harassing another player is against the rules.

 

The list goes on.

 

All of these are laws in the real world, and all of these have a parallel in runescape.

 

 

 

To be completely honest, You have long since lost this argument, and all you're accomplishing by continuing to present the same invalid points over and over is making yourself look like an idiot and causing a lot of facepalms to happen.

 

 

 

I would actually like to invite anyone who has a family member or friend who works in stock brokering, or accounting or something similar to have them come into this discussion and explain a bit more officially the damage caused by these clans and why they are so unethical.

[Omali]

4. I don't see in Jagex's rules it says you can slay dragons, does this mean dragon slaying is against the rules? Rules genuinely say what you can't do, not what you can. Prove to me where it says items can't be manipulated. Like I said, at this point, they are playing "legitimately".

 

 

 

I suggest you pay attention to the thread. It's been brought up multiple times. As for the green dragons, interestingly irrelevant comparison.

 

 

 

2+3. Items which don't have much of a demand initially, (uncut dragonstones), are continuously rebought by the clan members at first until they get a trend going. Others are brought in, and this is when the leaders quit buying. They then sell whenever they feel like it. Sure it craps on the little guy, but so does a lot of things in runescape. I attack greens that lower levels are attacking and kill them faster. A nice guy would let them have it, but I need to make the most out of my time(and I don't have much)...

 

 

 

Again; interestingly irrelevant.

 

 

 

To be honest, I don't care what process it goes through, Price manipulation is not against Jagex's rules

 

 

 

Again, if you'd actually read the thread, you would know otherwise.

 

 

 

Follow up 1: Who is this we? Again you're arguing against yourself...Until jagex nerfs/outlaws price manipulating, you have no right to argue that they ruin the way you play the game.

 

 

 

They are nerfing price manipulating. Apparently you've missed the entire point of this thread. Let the arguing continue!

[n64jive]

[hide=]

N64 are you being intentionally thick?

 

 

 

We have a statement in the knowledge base saying that Jagex will intervene in the case of price manipulation, also we have a statement buy MMG, who if you aren't aware is the CEO of Jagex, saying that Price manipulation is a problem and that they intend to do something about it. On top of that it's a highly disruptive way of playing the game, and commonly damages the playing experience for other players.

 

 

 

You would have to have the intelligence of my shoe to believe that they consider it to be ok. While it may not be stated directly in the rules, there is more than a sufficient amount of evidence to show that it is not a practice which Jagex deems to be "ok." There are times in life when you have to read between the lines and use a little bit of common sense.

 

Take this for example:

 

 

 

There is no law that says "don't put a truckload of donkey heads into a catapult and fire them at your neighbor's house," but obviously that's not ok.

 

 

 

While I do agree that often real world issues do not translate to Runescape, that is not always the case. There are numerable instances where parallels do exist, this being one of them.

 

 

 

As far as how Manipulation clans work, you obviously don't have a clear understanding.

 

 

 

Manipulation clans buyout stocks FORCING prices to rise artificially due to the new false demand, as opposed to buying and reselling moderate amounts of stocks in order to resell when and if that stock's price naturally rises through increased demand. It is a dishonest and unethical practice, whether it be in game or in real life. There is a distinct reason why it's illegal in real life, as it causes the same kind of harm to people as it does in Runescape.

 

 

 

As for your argument about how murder is illegal and yet we have pking, you seem to forget that in runescape, YOU RESPAWN. If you respawned in real life, I imagine murder wouldn't really be that big a deal.

 

 

 

Stealing from other players is against the rules.(don't even bring up the thieving skill, stealing from an NPC is not even close to the same thing.)

 

Defrauding another player is against the rules.

 

Harassing another player is against the rules.

 

The list goes on.

 

All of these are laws in the real world, and all of these have a parallel in runescape.

 

 

 

To be completely honest, You have long since lost this argument, and all you're accomplishing by continuing to present the same invalid points over and over is making yourself look like an idiot and causing a lot of facepalms to happen.

 

 

 

I would actually like to invite anyone who has a family member or friend who works in stock brokering, or accounting or something similar to have them come into this discussion and explain a bit more officially the damage caused by these clans and why they are so unethical.

[/hide]

 

 

 

I'm thick? You're the one treating runescape as a part of real life. My roommates step-dad is a stock broker and I'm a computer engineer. You can't say that Jagex's algorithm, or system if you will, for determining prices is comparable to wallstreet. And like I said you can't govern runescape's economy with the law's of the business world. The only judicial system is Jagex.

 

 

 

And please quit putting words in my mouth. I never once said that Jagex encourages item manipulation. I demand that they make an official announcement(meaning FRONT PAGE) on their stance and their propositions. The fact of the matter is that they are between a rock and a hard place. They can either let this continue to happen (Which in my opinion is the lesser of two evils) or they can fix their system. But the only permanent fix is setting the prices, which turns the GE into a big general store with set prices...this is how much it cost, this is how much you can sell it for, otherwise people are going to continually manipulate their system. If you don't think price manipulation took place before the GE, then you need to reread your history. Also, letting Jagex step in everytime they think manipulation happens is a concept known as market socialism, which is similiar to communism(there is a difference, and in fact one inhabits the other, but I don't want to go to deep into that). So if you want to play a game with an economy where the developers control the prices, than fine, but I'll gladly go back to Oblivion. (And don't say "good, cuz we don't want you here", because I'm not the only person who shares this opinion)...

 

 

 

PS,Name calling, which is what you have done throughout this thread, only starts flame wars. You need to step back, because believe it not, you don't know everything. And I don't claim to know everything either. But let me tell you something kid, I was playing runescape when you were still wetting your bed. (See how I generalize there..go ahead and make an argument that you're some sort of adult, because it will only prove my point that your generalizations only make an [wagon] out of yourself)...

 

 

 

edit: and I did read the [bleep]ing thread...but again PRICE MANIPULATION IS NOT AGAINST JAGEX'S RULES YET!!!! and I stress YET, because I doubt that will last much longer.

 

 

 

however my whole point is keep on whining about this kind of stuff, the game is only going to get worse as more restrictions are imposed...

[magzar]

[hide=]

N64 are you being intentionally thick?

 

 

 

We have a statement in the knowledge base saying that Jagex will intervene in the case of price manipulation, also we have a statement buy MMG, who if you aren't aware is the CEO of Jagex, saying that Price manipulation is a problem and that they intend to do something about it. On top of that it's a highly disruptive way of playing the game, and commonly damages the playing experience for other players.

 

 

 

You would have to have the intelligence of my shoe to believe that they consider it to be ok. While it may not be stated directly in the rules, there is more than a sufficient amount of evidence to show that it is not a practice which Jagex deems to be "ok." There are times in life when you have to read between the lines and use a little bit of common sense.

 

Take this for example:

 

 

 

There is no law that says "don't put a truckload of donkey heads into a catapult and fire them at your neighbor's house," but obviously that's not ok.

 

 

 

While I do agree that often real world issues do not translate to Runescape, that is not always the case. There are numerable instances where parallels do exist, this being one of them.

 

 

 

As far as how Manipulation clans work, you obviously don't have a clear understanding.

 

 

 

Manipulation clans buyout stocks FORCING prices to rise artificially due to the new false demand, as opposed to buying and reselling moderate amounts of stocks in order to resell when and if that stock's price naturally rises through increased demand. It is a dishonest and unethical practice, whether it be in game or in real life. There is a distinct reason why it's illegal in real life, as it causes the same kind of harm to people as it does in Runescape.

 

 

 

As for your argument about how murder is illegal and yet we have pking, you seem to forget that in runescape, YOU RESPAWN. If you respawned in real life, I imagine murder wouldn't really be that big a deal.

 

 

 

Stealing from other players is against the rules.(don't even bring up the thieving skill, stealing from an NPC is not even close to the same thing.)

 

Defrauding another player is against the rules.

 

Harassing another player is against the rules.

 

The list goes on.

 

All of these are laws in the real world, and all of these have a parallel in runescape.

 

 

 

To be completely honest, You have long since lost this argument, and all you're accomplishing by continuing to present the same invalid points over and over is making yourself look like an idiot and causing a lot of facepalms to happen.

 

 

 

I would actually like to invite anyone who has a family member or friend who works in stock brokering, or accounting or something similar to have them come into this discussion and explain a bit more officially the damage caused by these clans and why they are so unethical.

[/hide]

 

 

 

I'm thick? You're the one treating runescape as a part of real life. My roommates step-dad is a stock broker and I'm a computer engineer. You can't say that Jagex's algorithm, or system if you will, for determining prices is comparable to wallstreet. And like I said you can't govern runescape's economy with the law's of the business world. The only judicial system is Jagex.

 

 

 

And please quit putting words in my mouth. I never once said that Jagex encourages item manipulation. I demand that they make an official announcement(meaning FRONT PAGE) on their stance and their propositions. The fact of the matter is that they are between a rock and a hard place. They can either let this continue to happen (Which in my opinion is the lesser of two evils) or they can fix their system. But the only permanent fix is setting the prices, which turns the GE into a big general store with set prices...this is how much it cost, this is how much you can sell it for, otherwise people are going to continually manipulate their system. If you don't think price manipulation took place before the GE, then you need to reread your history. Also, letting Jagex step in everytime they think manipulation happens is a concept known as market socialism, which is similiar to communism(there is a difference, and in fact one inhabits the other, but I don't want to go to deep into that). So if you want to play a game with an economy where the developers control the prices, than fine, but I'll gladly go back to Oblivion. (And don't say "good, cuz we don't want you here", because I'm not the only person who shares this opinion)...

 

 

 

PS,Name calling, which is what you have done throughout this thread, only starts flame wars. You need to step back, because believe it not, you don't know everything. And I don't claim to know everything either. But let me tell you something kid, I was playing runescape when you were still wetting your bed. (See how I generalize there..go ahead and make an argument that you're some sort of adult, because it will only prove my point that your generalizations only make an [wagon] out of yourself)...

 

 

 

edit: and I did read the [bleep] thread...but again PRICE MANIPULATION IS NOT AGAINST JAGEX'S RULES YET!!!! and I stress YET, because I doubt that will last much longer.

 

 

 

however my whole point is keep on whining about this kind of stuff, the game is only going to get worse as more restrictions are imposed...

 

 

 

 

 

HAHA, wow how wrong you are.

 

 

 

I'm well aware that price manipulation is not a new problem in runescape. I remember selling things for far higher than their actual value myself before trade restrictions came about. The fact is that with a centralized market system and trade limitations, players don't have the luxury of just refusing to deal with price manipulators and finding someone who is selling for reasonable prices. When an item's price is manipulated it affects any and all players would would like to buy and use that item for any reason.

 

 

 

Of course you could try finding a player who will deal with you directly to buy what you need for a more reasonable price.(granted of course that you're an experienced player with a good deal of quest points to increase your trade margins) However, often the case is that people choose to sell on the G.E. as a matter of convenience, and anyone who is stocking items is doing so because they believe the G.E. prices to be too low anyway.

 

 

 

As far as Runescapes system being similar to Wall street; there are actually very few differences.

 

1. Price floors and ceilings. Necessary to prevent real world trading.

 

2. Update frequency and flexibility. Real world stock markets update in real time with no limit on how much a stock's value can change.

 

...I had one more but I can't seem to remember precisely what it was at the moment, I'll edit if i remember.

 

 

 

Now as far as the Laws go. True enough, Runescape is not governed by real world laws. However, the similarity between the systems demands a similar set of business ethics and laws. There is no reason why a business practice that is illegal in the real world, would be legal in runescape. The parallels that myself and others have drawn to real world practices are indeed valid due to the fact that these same activities can be replicated in Runescape economics. Insider trading is possible. Monopolies are possible. Cornering the market is possible. Collusion is possible. The fact that these practices exist in Runescape demands that they be dealt with as they would be in the real world, that is, swiftly and harshly.

 

 

 

I agree that there is no fix for this other than declaring fixed prices, which obviously none of us want. I also agree that Jagex should make a clear statement to say that Price Manipulation is explicitly against the rules. That being said, it still takes a lot of ignorance to look at the information we have and simply say, "well they never specifically said we couldn't do it." There are times when you have to look at implied meanings rather than specific statements.

 

 

 

For instance, there is no specific rule that says you can't fake an orgasm in Runescape. (assume hypothetically that no offensive language is used and that it is not directed at any other players.) However, you certainly don't need Jagex to step in and tell you that you can't stand around the G.E. typing out grunts and moans. Ignorance of the rules, whether explicitly stated or implied is no excuse for breaking them.

 

 

 

Also, I have done my best to refrain from name calling, however at some point patience with the ignorance and pigheadedness of others begins to draw thin. Besides that I never called you any names, I asked if you were intentionally being thick and said you were making yourself look like an idiot.

 

 

 

As Omali already said, the green dragon statement is not only irrelevant, but it doesn't even make sense.

 

 

 

In closing, you may indeed be older than me, but unless your name is on that top 2000 players list I can assure you that you were not playing runescape before me. I joined the game at the end of January of 01, the game had been out for less than a month. I'm actually still a little pissed that I didn't quite make that top 2000 cut. I miss my first character :cry: . good ole Vrookman. I really wish I could recover that account.

 

 

 

[hide=]I actually started the Runescape craze where i live. I found it on a MMORPG database that was really no more than a badly made webpage with a list games, no pictures or anything. I was amazed at the quality and got hooked immediately. I was in 7th grade at the time and showed it to all my friends. Within a few months it was hard to find a kid(a boy anyway) who didn't play. Let me tell you, it was a huge step up from the AOL games I was used to. (or shockwave, or ezone, or mamamedia) It was especially a huge innovation over the telnet based MUD Wheel of Time, I had been playing, or the mostly text based rpg Dragon Court. Then of course there's the strategy game Dominion. None of this is relevant obviously but it's the direction my train of thought took me.[/hide]

[Earth_Poet]

I'm thick? You're the one treating runescape as a part of real life. My roommates step-dad is a stock broker and I'm a computer engineer. You can't say that Jagex's algorithm, or system if you will, for determining prices is comparable to wallstreet. And like I said you can't govern runescape's economy with the law's of the business world. The only judicial system is Jagex.

 

 

 

I'll admit that I haven't gone through all of your posts on this thread, so I'm not going to get in the middle of that part of the argument. I just want to address your last post. No, runescape isn't a part of real life. However, what you do in the game has an impact on other aspects in the game. Saying that it's only a game doesn't absolve you from the consequences. If I curse out a child and tell him the world will be better off without him, I don't know the child's state of mind, nor what impact my words will have on him. The point is, that our player interactions within the community do have consequences.

 

 

 

The Runescape economy is rather simplified compared to real world economics. We don't have a futures market, bonds market, etc. But there is an economy going. There are some financial mirrors to the real world. If we are going to have a successful economy in operating in Runescape, then it makes sense to borrow models that work in the real world, and have guidelines that represent lessons learned from the real world. Jagex's intention is to have an economy based on supply and demand. They didn't make that up.

 

 

 

I never once said that Jagex encourages item manipulation. I demand that they make an official announcement(meaning FRONT PAGE) on their stance and their propositions.

 

 

 

This is a situation where we can be on opposite sides of the fence on this issue, and still agree on something. I agree that Jagex needs to make their position clear.

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is that they are between a rock and a hard place. They can either let this continue to happen (Which in my opinion is the lesser of two evils) or they can fix their system. But the only permanent fix is setting the prices, which turns the GE into a big general store with set prices...this is how much it cost, this is how much you can sell it for, otherwise people are going to continually manipulate their system.

 

 

 

You're right. To completely eradicate manipulation, the only true solution is to have fixed prices. That's not a reasonable solution though. The other answer is to lift the trade caps, but then that invites back in RWT. That's the real rock and hard place situation here. Unless Jagex chooses to undercut merchant clans, we're in a tough spot.

 

 

 

If you don't think price manipulation took place before the GE, then you need to reread your history.

 

 

 

Price manipulation was much, much more difficult to achieve prior to GE. Prices on most items tended to have a fixed range that players would trade in. Most merchants operated by finding good bargains, and reselling them at higher end prices. It was difficult to buy out an item, and to do it anonymously like you can now. You'd pretty much have to be on the forums 24/7 and scouring World 2, even then it was difficult to have all sellers funneling their goods into your pockets. The GE's system makes it much easier to do that, and because of the universal prices, all traders have to conform to what the GE says.

 

 

 

Also, letting Jagex step in everytime they think manipulation happens is a concept known as market socialism, which is similiar to communism(there is a difference, and in fact one inhabits the other, but I don't want to go to deep into that).

 

 

 

Since you decided to bring up real world economics at this point in your argument, you can't retract and say it is irrelevant. If Jagex decides to step in and fix prices, then you are absolutely right. However, even free market societies have fair trade rules, and the government has stepped in to curb practices very similar to what merchant clans are doing today. The Hunt Silver Manipulation is a very good case. When you undermine the liquidity of the item as well as the true value of an item, it disrupts the confidence in the market.

 

 

 

So if you want to play a game with an economy where the developers control the prices, than fine, but I'll gladly go back to Oblivion. (And don't say "good, cuz we don't want you here", because I'm not the only person who shares this opinion)...

 

 

 

Personally, I really don't want to see you, or anybody who shares this opinion to leave the game. I play the game for the community, and to get into debates like this. I want the practice to stop, but I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. However, if the only enjoyment you get out of Runescape is through price manipulation, then have fun on Oblivion.

[magzar]

I'm thick? You're the one treating runescape as a part of real life. My roommates step-dad is a stock broker and I'm a computer engineer. You can't say that Jagex's algorithm, or system if you will, for determining prices is comparable to wallstreet. And like I said you can't govern runescape's economy with the law's of the business world. The only judicial system is Jagex.

 

 

 

I'll admit that I haven't gone through all of your posts on this thread, so I'm not going to get in the middle of that part of the argument. I just want to address your last post. No, runescape isn't a part of real life. However, what you do in the game has an impact on other aspects in the game. Saying that it's only a game doesn't absolve you from the consequences. If I curse out a child and tell him the world will be better off without him, I don't know the child's state of mind, nor what impact my words will have on him. The point is, that our player interactions within the community do have consequences.

 

 

 

The Runescape economy is rather simplified compared to real world economics. We don't have a futures market, bonds market, etc. But there is an economy going. There are some financial mirrors to the real world. If we are going to have a successful economy in operating in Runescape, then it makes sense to borrow models that work in the real world, and have guidelines that represent lessons learned from the real world. Jagex's intention is to have an economy based on supply and demand. They didn't make that up.

 

 

 

I never once said that Jagex encourages item manipulation. I demand that they make an official announcement(meaning FRONT PAGE) on their stance and their propositions.

 

 

 

This is a situation where we can be on opposite sides of the fence on this issue, and still agree on something. I agree that Jagex needs to make their position clear.

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is that they are between a rock and a hard place. They can either let this continue to happen (Which in my opinion is the lesser of two evils) or they can fix their system. But the only permanent fix is setting the prices, which turns the GE into a big general store with set prices...this is how much it cost, this is how much you can sell it for, otherwise people are going to continually manipulate their system.

 

 

 

You're right. To completely eradicate manipulation, the only true solution is to have fixed prices. That's not a reasonable solution though. The other answer is to lift the trade caps, but then that invites back in RWT. That's the real rock and hard place situation here. Unless Jagex chooses to undercut merchant clans, we're in a tough spot.

 

 

 

If you don't think price manipulation took place before the GE, then you need to reread your history.

 

 

 

Price manipulation was much, much more difficult to achieve prior to GE. Prices on most items tended to have a fixed range that players would trade in. Most merchants operated by finding good bargains, and reselling them at higher end prices. It was difficult to buy out an item, and to do it anonymously like you can now. You'd pretty much have to be on the forums 24/7 and scouring World 2, even then it was difficult to have all sellers funneling their goods into your pockets. The GE's system makes it much easier to do that, and because of the universal prices, all traders have to conform to what the GE says.

 

 

 

Also, letting Jagex step in everytime they think manipulation happens is a concept known as market socialism, which is similiar to communism(there is a difference, and in fact one inhabits the other, but I don't want to go to deep into that).

 

 

 

Since you decided to bring up real world economics at this point in your argument, you can't retract and say it is irrelevant. If Jagex decides to step in and fix prices, then you are absolutely right. However, even free market societies have fair trade rules, and the government has stepped in to curb practices very similar to what merchant clans are doing today. The Hunt Silver Manipulation is a very good case. When you undermine the liquidity of the item as well as the true value of an item, it disrupts the confidence in the market.

 

 

 

So if you want to play a game with an economy where the developers control the prices, than fine, but I'll gladly go back to Oblivion. (And don't say "good, cuz we don't want you here", because I'm not the only person who shares this opinion)...

 

 

 

Personally, I really don't want to see you, or anybody who shares this opinion to leave the game. I play the game for the community, and to get into debates like this. I want the practice to stop, but I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. However, if the only enjoyment you get out of Runescape is through price manipulation, then have fun on Oblivion.

 

 

 

 

 

i just wanted to say

 

 

 

=D>

[Omali]

I'm thick? You're the one treating runescape as a part of real life. My roommates step-dad is a stock broker and I'm a computer engineer. You can't say that Jagex's algorithm, or system if you will, for determining prices is comparable to wallstreet. And like I said you can't govern runescape's economy with the law's of the business world. The only judicial system is Jagex.

 

 

 

It doesn't update as fast as Wallstreet, but it is comparable.

 

 

 

I demand that they make an official announcement(meaning FRONT PAGE) on their stance and their propositions.

 

 

 

Price manipulation has been against the rules for years. People get muted and threads get locked for it all the time on the forums.

 

 

 

But the only permanent fix is setting the prices, which turns the GE into a big general store with set prices...this is how much it cost, this is how much you can sell it for, otherwise people are going to continually manipulate their system.

 

 

 

Or they could intervene when obvious manipulation is taking place to bankrupt the manipulators and basically make it so useless that nobody will do it anymore.

 

 

 

Also, letting Jagex step in everytime they think manipulation happens is a concept known as market socialism, which is similiar to communism(there is a difference, and in fact one inhabits the other, but I don't want to go to deep into that).

 

 

 

Communism and Socialism are two completely different things. Socialism is about the will of the majority, Communism is about the will of the few. You're comparing Conservatives to Liberals. Socialism is an economic view, Communism is a political view, and the two definitely do not exist within one another, unless you account the few Communist parties that promised to adopt socialist views, but never went through with it.

 

 

 

So if you want to play a game with an economy where the developers control the prices, than fine, but I'll gladly go back to Oblivion. (And don't say "good, cuz we don't want you here", because I'm not the only person who shares this opinion)...

 

 

 

You're deciding two extremes as the only options. Either Jagex controls everything and turns this into a single player rpg, or they do nothing. Careful regulation does wonders.

 

 

 

PS,Name calling, which is what you have done throughout this thread, only starts flame wars. You need to step back, because believe it not, you don't know everything. And I don't claim to know everything either. But let me tell you something kid, I was playing runescape when you were still wetting your bed. (See how I generalize there..go ahead and make an argument that you're some sort of adult, because it will only prove my point that your generalizations only make an [wagon] out of yourself)...

 

 

 

Name calling and half-witted condescending comments on age aren't too different you know, especially considering your vast experience in Runescape has apparently left you with less knowledge than someone who, in your words, was wetting the bed when you were playing.

 

 

 

edit: and I did read the [bleep] thread...but again PRICE MANIPULATION IS NOT AGAINST JAGEX'S RULES YET!!!! and I stress YET, because I doubt that will last much longer.

 

 

 

Again, it's been against the rules for years. Forum mods have been busting manipulators for a long time now.

 

 

 

however my whole point is keep on whining about this kind of stuff, the game is only going to get worse as more restrictions are imposed...

 

 

 

Uh...huh. If only you'd said that earlier, it would've been much easier to reply with a simple "too bad you have no valid evidence to back that up"

[Reztral]

So, from what I gather, these clans spend their time manipulating market prices for the sole benefit of themselves and these same clans get upset when Jagex manipulates market prices to benefit the entire community. Would this be correct?

[bedman]

 

 

 

There is no law that says "don't put a truckload of donkey heads into a catapult and fire them at your neighbor's house," but obviously that's not ok.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I liked that one :-)

[joke_slayer]

So, from what I gather, these clans spend their time manipulating market prices for the sole benefit of themselves and these same clans get upset when Jagex manipulates market prices to benefit the entire community. Would this be correct?

 

 

 

yes, although we are not really sure if it was actually jagex or someone dumping a huge ammoun of limps for a low price like mod mat k suggested

[Mercifull]

Would a possibly solution to problems with the GE be to make it so that if you sell at min your item always sells (even if it goes into the ether) and if you buy at max you always get it (even if it means creating an item from nothing).

 

 

 

Obviously there would be limits to this but it would also remove junk from the game, effectively monetising everything in the game. Something which is worth 100 gp on the GE but is useless to anyone (effectively useful for junk trading only) could be sold on the GE for min and get real cash gp out of it.

 

 

 

What are the pros and cons of this? Thousands of people would be able to sell their junk items created as a result of skilling. Most cheap items are already at their price floors so this would make no difference. Clan merchants could never completely buy out an item but could possibly still push up prices of everything. The difference being is that when the leaders try to sell at minimum the minions of the clan would still probably be buying for higher prices so the prices wont crash.

 

 

 

Obviously alchable items would never go below the cost of a nature rune.

 

 

 

These are all things to ponder.

[Silver_Corner]

There are many solutions Jagex could do, I think they are just testing all of their solutions to see which one leaves the least impact on the majority of the community. Any way you put it, SOMEONE is going to have to make a sacrifice. Its just how it is.

 

 

 

Some solutions are plausible though. Letting you instant buy things 10% over mid price, and letting you instant sell things 10% under mid price is certainly one solution to prevent buyouts, as items are always in stock. But then you bring in issues where the price still changes out of control.

 

 

 

Another option is increasing the amount of time it takes G.E. to change price. Perhaps G.E. only changes price once a week. This would really cut out on merchant clans, because it turns everything into long investment merchanting. Not to mention this option leaves the smallest impact on the average Joe.

 

 

 

The final, last resort, option is fixing prices. I dont see this happening though unless items start getting locked up and stuck in price ranges nobody buys from.

 

 

 

In all honesty, reducing the frequency G.E. updates is really the biggest way to fix the problem with the smallest impact. But I agree Jagex needs to set a stance, post an announcement on the main page, and stick with it from there to solve the problem. If people don't realize its wrong, they wont stop anytime soon.

[Punitive_D]

The best "solution" would be to free the GE from the restrictions that make price manipulation possible in the first place. By setting price limits, Jagex went too far to try to protect players from themselves. If the GE were a true market maker, price limits would be unnecessary, and price manipulation would be impossible. The GE should collect and sort free offers to buy and sell at any price. This would allow anyone thinking of trading an item to check the true market price before doing so. If the GE is available and somebody gets ripped off in a private trade, it's their own fault. In sum, the solution to this problem is more freedom for traders, not less. Increase the information available to all players and then let them play. This would facilitate true merchanting and would totally kill the form of play that is aimed at manipulating the Jagex system. As long as Jagex has a system, players will figure out how to game it. The elmination of the system that is being gamed will solve the problem.

[acenator]

The best "solution" would be to free the GE from the restrictions that make price manipulation possible in the first place. By setting price limits, Jagex went too far to try to protect players from themselves. If the GE were a true market maker, price limits would be unnecessary, and price manipulation would be impossible. The GE should collect and sort free offers to buy and sell at any price. This would allow anyone thinking of trading an item to check the true market price before doing so. If the GE is available and somebody gets ripped off in a private trade, it's their own fault. In sum, the solution to this problem is more freedom for traders, not less. Increase the information available to all players and then let them play. This would facilitate true merchanting and would totally kill the form of play that is aimed at manipulating the Jagex system. As long as Jagex has a system, players will figure out how to game it. The elmination of the system that is being gamed will solve the problem.

 

The problem with that is that it is likely to open upholes for RWT'ers to work through.

 

 

 

Personally, I say they need to come out and state their stance on the issue (likely to be that price manipulation is wrong and needs to stop if the KB and the forum rules mean anything), issue a rule against organizing price manipulation groups, ban the leaders of manipulation clans that don't shut down (this would eventually become hard to track, but should still be part of the fight against price manipulation clans), and start repeating what has happened to limpwurts only for every item being manipulated (it's really not that hard to tell if an item is being manipulated or rising naturally).

 

 

 

Just issueing the statement and rule will shut down the majority of these clans and, once a few leaders have been banned and a ton of money has been lost from prices being lowered in the middle of a buyout, I highly doubt there would be very many people left in the price manipulation "community."