Mod Mat K & Manipulator clans Debate

[Bini]

Grandmerch is banned and cc locked. (Doesn't exist)

 

Grandmerch3r is still active.

 

 

 

I assume you mean goldmerch?

 

I think he means Grandmerch.

 

Grandmerch, Goldmerch and Grandm3rchr are/were connected somehow.

[forestfrolic]

Does anybody have a screenshot of Jagex saying price manipulation is against the rules? It'd be helpful in this thread.

[joke_slayer]

lets see how some these "merch" clans work

 

 

 

the leader(s) of these clans decide and item to manipulate

 

now they have decided they buy as many as they want to invest, maybe telling the ranked members also

 

once they have bought all they wanted, they reveal what they want their cc to buy and encourage them to buy for max, claiming they will let it rise a lot, lets use dstones as an example here

 

so the merchers told their ccs to invest in dstones and to dump them at say 200k

 

 

 

when the items reach a decreed price, the leaders/ranked members dump their items (say 100k for dstones), knowing that all the people in the cc will still be buying as they think they will rise by another 100k each,

 

 

 

now they tell the members of their ccs to dump, some of these people might make money by dumping right away as there will inevitably be people not online at the time who won't be able to remove their ge offers in time

 

these people are now stuck with say 5mil worth of dstones, which they spent say 10mil to buy

 

 

 

these people now are desperate to get rid of the items so they dump them all on ge for min, but who is buying?

 

all the people who used dstones have realized they have been manipulated and decide to wait until the items crash again, and only those people who desperatly need the items for some reason are willing to buy for such a high price

 

 

 

therefore these people lose a lot of their money and are basically scammed by the merching clans and decide to abandon the idea of these merching clans, but they will always need some people to dump all the items to, so what do they do? they set up autotalkers in most worlds at ge, its now very hard to go to ge in any world without having your public chat flooded by people advertising for these clans, which are very annoying, and the cycle continues.

 

 

 

when an item is dumped it doesn't just go back to its previous price:

 

lets say that an item is being merched and there are on averager 1000 being sold on the ge a day

 

lets say a merch clan manipulates this item, and dumps after 5 days, they will buy all the stock of this item for these 5 days and will therefore dump 5000 at once, which is 5 times what would normally be expected in normal times, the price then crashes for another 5 days back to what it previously was, in this time people know they price is going to go down a lot, so very few of these items will be bought

 

 

 

so now after the item has reached its normal value there are 10000 stuck on ge, 10 times what would normally be expected, not counting all the items dumped by people who might have been hoarding an item because they though its value was too low.

 

so now there are over 10 times what you would expect in the ge, plus the normal 1000 that would be thrown in ge each day, and it will take a while for the price to stabilize because of this.

 

 

 

also to all the people saying that if these are removed then jagex would lose a lot of members, this argument is bs

 

most of the merchants are lieing that they are going to quit because now they all already have tonnes more money than they would need for anything else they would like to do

 

 

 

also there is a very small number of these high ranked manipulators who rake in all the profits, and even if they were all to quit, it would still be less people quitting than all the people that would quit as a result of losing all their hard earned cash due to these "merchants"

 

 

 

whatever you would call these things irl, they are the sort of things that could send you in jail and also helped bring about the current economic situation

 

 

 

i haven't even mentioned how all of this affects the normal player who is forced to wait to buy the items he requires for a reasonable price, i can wait, but some people's fun is ruined, say have 10 days of members left and decide to get a certain level, they have worked out a method that they will be able to use with their money, but they suddenly find the item they require has been manipulated, and they cannot get the level for a price they can afford. these players have had their fun ruined by these greedy idiots.

 

 

 

yes you can make some money off these merching clans if you happen to have some ammount of what they are merching in the bank, maybe sell and buy back later, but it is much more likely that you lose out

 

 

 

if you require to buy an item, you either have to pay extortionate prices, or wait for weeks for it to get back to a reasonable price

 

if you gather an item for profit, you might not know it has been manipulated and when you come round to selling it, you have to watch the price plummet to below what it was meant to be as a result of the market being flooded with these items

 

 

 

also i don't see why everyone is blaming mod mat k, he has provided reasonable explanations as to why this crash has happened, ie someone dumping large ammounts of the items for min, but all the merch clans are paranoid they jagex did it,

 

Do you think they would be this afraid, and easy to blame jagex if they though what they were doing was fair?

 

 

 

also on a side note, to follow the issues closely i decided to have a look at these ccs to have a laugh at their reactions and see if its true their accounts were locked,

 

they claim the accounts have been locked because of evidence of account theft, as i'd immagine most of these clan chat accounts can be accessed by several leaders (which is against the rules), and therefore the continued access by different ips would have made jagex suspicious, they have not been locked because of them being used for clan manipulation (like al capone was pinned for tax evasion, and none of the other more serious crimes he committed :P )

 

 

 

in conclusion in my opinion, these clans are now public enemy number 1, now that the autoers/rwters are mostly gone, whether jagex is responsible for the sudden crash of limps or not it makes me very happy to see these clans at least unsettled by this, and i hope that they are suitably dealt with in future since the leaders of these clans are damaging almost every one else in rs by either ruining their fun, or banks

 

 

 

ps i hope i made my points clear, it is very late and i am a bit sleepy

 

also sorry for the long read, but wanted to make my opinion clear

[ilovesilvia]

Anyone know about 2lum?

[forestfrolic]

This thread has turned into people writing essays about what has already been said..

[Ravenkana]

Does anybody have a screenshot of Jagex saying price manipulation is against the rules? It'd be helpful in this thread.

Not really. Unless it's said by Andrew, MMG, or someone else high in the company or on the official rules page, then it's not official. Remember those two Jagex Mods who told a large group that Summoning would be Free to Play? Or the whole Swiftkit debacle?

[wioneo]

 

Nothing to do with me, I have spent the day gathering Elder flowers to start my home brewing empire!

 

 

 

Mat.

 

---

 

What are the normal reasons for something to go down in price?

 

 

 

Mat.

 

---

 

I hate to say it guys, to make money you need to risk something. It doesn't look like it paid off this time. Better luck on your next venture.

 

 

 

Mat.

 

 

 

 

 

"Answer this 1 Mat

 

 

 

Why does Jagex insist on constantly ruining the game? Have a poll asking if people like Runescape. Guarentee you 70% or more say its turned to crap "

 

_________________________________________________________________________

 

LMAO!!! you are so sad, if this game ahs turned to crap why are you still playing, dnt u have better things to do with your time then play with crap. come on think about what you say and almost every player that plays enjoys this game and all the updates that come out!

 

 

 

Lord made a very good point tbh.

 

 

 

Mat.

 

 

 

 

Bwahahaha this guy is awesome.

[Aidos Drakon]

Wow I have managed to read through this monster of a thread. The debate has been a very interesting and both sides have valid points. All we can do is wait and see what Jagex does in the near future.

[Omali]

 

My .002C

 

 

 

[lagatag]

Wow I have managed to read through this monster of a thread. The debate has been a very interesting and both sides have valid points. All we can do is wait and see what Jagex does in the near future.

 

 

 

I don't think the merch clans have a valid point. Sure, the GE works that way, but the real life market does too in a generalized short term only way, and that caused a lot of problems so now that type of activity is illegal. I don't see how on RS it should be any different.

[Earth_Poet]

Does anybody have a screenshot of Jagex saying price manipulation is against the rules? It'd be helpful in this thread.

 

 

 

This is as close as I could find in the KB concerning the GE:

 

 

 

The prices items sell at are therefore not set by Jagex but by the players themselves! We are keen to keep a player-driven economy, so the prices are worked out using the supply and demand rules above. We will only intervene as a last resort, and only if we think price manipulation is going on, although the system has lots of safeguards to prevent that.

 

 

 

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=559

 

 

 

I know it seems weak, but the statement implies that price manipulation is against their policies. Furthermore, it also states that Jagex reserves the right to step in and intervene at their discretion. They used to have a stronger stance about price manipulation posted in the forums before the GE came out (where most market activity took place at that time), but my guess is that Jagex saw the GE as some perfect, flawless system that is was no longer needed to warn players about price manipulation. Today, Jagex's position is very confusing because there's a lot of murky water here.

 

 

 

While I don't agree with the merchant clans practices, I can also understand their anger. Nobody has proven that limpwurt prices were deliberately changed, but if they were then it shows cowardice. I have a hard time believing that one lone mod would risk his career to change prices in a video game. However, if Jagex is frowning upon price manipulation then they need to just come out and say it. Whatever their position is, they need to make it clear and public. Jagex has ignored this argument far too long, and now there's going to be angry players no matter what side they take.

[Aidos Drakon]

Wow I have managed to read through this monster of a thread. The debate has been a very interesting and both sides have valid points. All we can do is wait and see what Jagex does in the near future.

 

 

 

I don't think the merch clans have a valid point. Sure, the GE works that way, but the real life market does too in a generalized short term only way, and that caused a lot of problems so now that type of activity is illegal. I don't see how on RS it should be any different.

 

I personally dislike merch clans myself. I do have to admit that das and his supporters do have some valid points.

[SirTommy2005]

I love merch chats.

 

They don't scam me, I scam them.

 

And I don't even control anything about them, they fall to my own plans.

[O_M_G_Guasto]

What is the 26k trick? Thanks.

 

So I asked this question...

[acenator]

What is the 26k trick? Thanks.

 

So I asked this question...

 

1) Two people get together

 

2) They go to a pvp world and sit in a hotspot (attacking each other with weapons that they can't kill each other with; I heard most of these methods are no longer possible, but I'm not sure) with just enough stuff on them to make the system increase their chances for a good drop

 

3) After a while, one kills the other hoping for a good drop

 

4) Then they repeat the process but switch roles

 

5) Profit

[RU_Insane]

 

My .002C

 

 

 

 

 

 

O_O =p

[Musky44]

What is the 26k trick? Thanks.

 

So I asked this question...

 

1) Two people get together

 

2) They go to a pvp world and sit in a hotspot (attacking each other with weapons that they can't kill each other with; I heard most of these methods are no longer possible, but I'm not sure) with just enough stuff on them to make the system increase their chances for a good drop

 

3) After a while, one kills the other hoping for a good drop

 

4) Then they repeat the process but switch roles

 

5) Profit

 

 

 

Actually, it goes more like:

 

1) Two people get together

 

2) They go to a pvp world and sit in a hotspot (attacking each other with weapons that they can't kill each other with; I heard most of these methods are no longer possible, but I'm not sure) with just enough stuff on them to make the system increase their chances for a good drop

 

3) After a while, one kills the other hoping for a good drop

 

4) Then they repeat the process but switch roles

 

5) ???

 

6) Profit!

[acenator]

What is the 26k trick? Thanks.

 

So I asked this question...

 

1) Two people get together

 

2) They go to a pvp world and sit in a hotspot (attacking each other with weapons that they can't kill each other with; I heard most of these methods are no longer possible, but I'm not sure) with just enough stuff on them to make the system increase their chances for a good drop

 

3) After a while, one kills the other hoping for a good drop

 

4) Then they repeat the process but switch roles

 

5) Profit

 

 

 

Actually, it goes more like:

 

1) Two people get together

 

2) They go to a pvp world and sit in a hotspot (attacking each other with weapons that they can't kill each other with; I heard most of these methods are no longer possible, but I'm not sure) with just enough stuff on them to make the system increase their chances for a good drop

 

3) After a while, one kills the other hoping for a good drop

 

4) Then they repeat the process but switch roles

 

5) ???

 

6) Profit!

 

Oh, right. Sorry about that missing step in there. And the most important one at that. #-o

 

 

 

Man, I hate it when I forget these sorts of things. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

[magzar]

Does anybody have a screenshot of Jagex saying price manipulation is against the rules? It'd be helpful in this thread.

 

 

 

This is as close as I could find in the KB concerning the GE:

 

 

 

The prices items sell at are therefore not set by Jagex but by the players themselves! We are keen to keep a player-driven economy, so the prices are worked out using the supply and demand rules above. We will only intervene as a last resort, and only if we think price manipulation is going on, although the system has lots of safeguards to prevent that.

 

 

 

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=559

 

 

 

I know it seems weak, but the statement implies that price manipulation is against their policies. Furthermore, it also states that Jagex reserves the right to step in and intervene at their discretion. They used to have a stronger stance about price manipulation posted in the forums before the GE came out (where most market activity took place at that time), but my guess is that Jagex saw the GE as some perfect, flawless system that is was no longer needed to warn players about price manipulation. Today, Jagex's position is very confusing because there's a lot of murky water here.

 

 

 

While I don't agree with the merchant clans practices, I can also understand their anger. Nobody has proven that limpwurt prices were deliberately changed, but if they were then it shows cowardice. I have a hard time believing that one lone mod would risk his career to change prices in a video game. However, if Jagex is frowning upon price manipulation then they need to just come out and say it. Whatever their position is, they need to make it clear and public. Jagex has ignored this argument far too long, and now there's going to be angry players no matter what side they take.

 

 

 

 

 

If you look back through the thread, Master_Smither posted a screenshot of MMG saying price manipulation was a problem and that the are planning to do something about it.

[O_M_G_Guasto]

What is the 26k trick? Thanks.

 

So I asked this question...

 

1) Two people get together

 

2) They go to a pvp world and sit in a hotspot (attacking each other with weapons that they can't kill each other with; I heard most of these methods are no longer possible, but I'm not sure) with just enough stuff on them to make the system increase their chances for a good drop

 

3) After a while, one kills the other hoping for a good drop

 

4) Then they repeat the process but switch roles

 

5) Profit

 

 

 

Actually, it goes more like:

 

1) Two people get together

 

2) They go to a pvp world and sit in a hotspot (attacking each other with weapons that they can't kill each other with; I heard most of these methods are no longer possible, but I'm not sure) with just enough stuff on them to make the system increase their chances for a good drop

 

3) After a while, one kills the other hoping for a good drop

 

4) Then they repeat the process but switch roles

 

5) ???

 

6) Profit!

 

Oh, right. Sorry about that missing step in there. And the most important one at that. #-o

 

 

 

Man, I hate it when I forget these sorts of things. :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

 

A little to 4chan-y for my tastes but it'll do.

[Mercifull]

:lol:

 

A little to 4chan-y for my tastes but it'll do.

It's a south park reference not 4chan

[forestfrolic]

[hide=]

Does anybody have a screenshot of Jagex saying price manipulation is against the rules? It'd be helpful in this thread.

 

 

 

This is as close as I could find in the KB concerning the GE:

 

 

 

The prices items sell at are therefore not set by Jagex but by the players themselves! We are keen to keep a player-driven economy, so the prices are worked out using the supply and demand rules above. We will only intervene as a last resort, and only if we think price manipulation is going on, although the system has lots of safeguards to prevent that.

 

 

 

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=559

 

 

 

I know it seems weak, but the statement implies that price manipulation is against their policies. Furthermore, it also states that Jagex reserves the right to step in and intervene at their discretion. They used to have a stronger stance about price manipulation posted in the forums before the GE came out (where most market activity took place at that time), but my guess is that Jagex saw the GE as some perfect, flawless system that is was no longer needed to warn players about price manipulation. Today, Jagex's position is very confusing because there's a lot of murky water here.

 

 

 

While I don't agree with the merchant clans practices, I can also understand their anger. Nobody has proven that limpwurt prices were deliberately changed, but if they were then it shows cowardice. I have a hard time believing that one lone mod would risk his career to change prices in a video game. However, if Jagex is frowning upon price manipulation then they need to just come out and say it. Whatever their position is, they need to make it clear and public. Jagex has ignored this argument far too long, and now there's going to be angry players no matter what side they take.

[/hide]

 

 

 

Well there you have it. Jagex has said they would interfere if they feel it is being manipulated. There is no rule against manipulation, but they will interfere "as a last resort".

[obfuscator]

It seems to me that Jagex probably did manipulate the ge, though I feel it was well deserved.

[nicrune007]

Great! Now do it to swamp lizard. :twisted:

[noble_aloof]

goldmerch (or should i say, goldestmerch) is on the run. goldmerch's account is locked and they are treating it almost as a state of emergency. i was talking to several of the ranked people in the chat. one of whom (a silver star) said that there is a possibility of them starting an irc chat and trying to keep a low profile in runescape. i'm not sure how this will work because jagex can obviously monitor manipulation. also, the goldmerch propaganda people are saying that it is simply a "cap" and that all items have capped. he is stating that jagex did not step in. #-o