Mod Mat K & Manipulator clans Debate

[Gribbzldinho]

I thought locked/banned accounts restricted you from joining their clan chat? I can get in Goldmerch right now.

[forestfrolic]

If you go on Youtube and search "merching poll" one of the ranked leaders of goldmerch has created a video where he is taking a poll.

 

 

 

Currently his side is winning. Of course this has nothing to do with the video being advertised just in his clanchat or anything..

 

 

 

I say if anyone is bored.. go comment the video, before he gets too headstrong. \

[xretiredx]

.

[Master_Smither]

If you go on Youtube and search "merching poll" one of the ranked leaders of goldmerch has created a video where he is taking a poll.

 

 

 

Currently his side is winning. Of course this has nothing to do with the video being advertised just in his clanchat or anything..

 

 

 

I say if anyone is bored.. go comment the video, before he gets too headstrong. \

 

 

 

He got muted for advertising that in Goldmerch cc :lol:

 

 

 

I thought locked/banned accounts restricted you from joining their clan chat? I can get in Goldmerch right now.

 

 

 

If they get banned you can still join their cc unless Jagex goes in and manually locks it.

[forestfrolic]

If you go on Youtube and search "merching poll" one of the ranked leaders of goldmerch has created a video where he is taking a poll.

 

 

 

Currently his side is winning. Of course this has nothing to do with the video being advertised just in his clanchat or anything..

 

 

 

I say if anyone is bored.. go comment the video, before he gets too headstrong. \

 

 

 

He got muted for advertising that in Goldmerch cc :lol:

 

 

 

This whole ordeal is getting better and better.

[Carl]

If you go on Youtube and search "merching poll" one of the ranked leaders of goldmerch has created a video where he is taking a poll.

 

 

 

Currently his side is winning. Of course this has nothing to do with the video being advertised just in his clanchat or anything..

 

 

 

I say if anyone is bored.. go comment the video, before he gets too headstrong. \

 

 

 

He got muted for advertising that in Goldmerch cc :lol:

 

 

 

This whole ordeal is getting better and better.

 

 

 

Yeah, there was no p-mods in clan chat so I called someone in. ;) Serves him right, too. Then he said "join my clan chat", came in on an alternative account (Which was unranked) and said to his friends "Kick all the non-ranks, but not me" and they kicked him too! Rather funny.

[sadukar123]

Seems like Jagex has locked the account 'Goldmerch'. :|

 

 

 

Happy to say I was possibly the last person to click "Kick user Goldmerch" :twss:

 

 

 

I'm glad something's finally being done. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

You beat me to the kick :cry: :cry: :cry:

 

 

 

I was so confused about what you guys were saying. Then I read your names and I was like.. oh.. mod mmg's clan chat. Haha. What was goldmerch doing?

 

 

 

He came in and trolled and flamed us and Jagex mod's.

 

 

 

Anyway their cc is having a riot :roll: :lol:

 

HAHAHA. I joined by chance while doing a clue JUST to catch that. LOL.

[Sir_Kurity]

The leaders make so much money one little limpwurt wont mean anything.

[forestfrolic]

The leaders make so much money one little limpwurt wont mean anything.

 

 

 

It's not one little limp..

 

 

 

And this only happened to one clan, yet they're all "rioting". It's because they think Jagex is screwing around with them, and they're not happy. Plus the public relations mod in the RSOF thread, Mod Mat K, wasn't too nice to them. (But he was hilarious for the rest of us).

[Master_Smither]

Looks as if Smokin Mils and Grandmerch3r have been locked too. It's what I heard and smokin mils's cc is full so I am assuming it is true. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[canadiansmurf]

Nailing their own coffin? :shame:

 

If jagex decides to take on merch clans, I wonder how many players will be left.

 

 

 

Pvp is okay but not a great money maker.

 

 

 

Maybe that is their goal, to get rid of certain players and attract younger, casual players who won't whine or complain and are happy with basic items.

 

 

 

I'm fascinated how this is all playing out in Jagex's timeline, the GE was introduced so long ago and the GE Exchange updates page of price rise and fall etc. is still labelled GE BETA. It's ironic that they let people artificially manipulate prices, these merch clan's are a result of Jagex's laziness. Also, from the beginning of the GE Jagex encouraged people to invest in the GE and take risk and profit from price rises. Jagex encouraged stock market-like investing in the GE.

 

 

 

Jagex is smart enough to know that lots of people play just for gold pieces. If they start to minimize profits from GE and all, heaps of people will quit.

 

 

 

For those of you posting on here laughing at merchers getting burned and losing GP, I wonder how much you'd laugh if Jagex started doing this more regularly.

 

 

 

Prices being unstable or just flat will minimize profits for skillers and non-merchanting players as well.

[forestfrolic]

Nailing their own coffin? :shame:

 

If jagex decides to take on merch clans, I wonder how many players will be left.

 

 

 

Pvp is okay but not a great money maker.

 

 

 

Maybe that is their goal, to get rid of certain players and attract younger, casual players who won't whine or complain and are happy with basic items.

 

 

 

I'm fascinated how this is all playing out in Jagex's timeline, the GE was introduced so long ago and the GE Exchange updates page of price rise and fall etc. is still labelled GE BETA. It's ironic that they let people artificially manipulate prices, these merch clan's are a result of Jagex's laziness. Also, from the beginning of the GE Jagex encouraged people to invest in the GE and take risk and profit from price rises. Jagex encouraged stock market-like investing in the GE.

 

 

 

Jagex is smart enough to know that lots of people play just for gold pieces. If they start to minimize profits from GE and all, heaps of people will quit.

 

 

 

For those of you posting on here laughing at merchers getting burned and losing GP, I wonder how much you'd laugh if Jagex started doing this more regularly.

 

 

 

Prices being unstable or just flat will minimize profits for skillers and non-merchanting players as well.

 

 

 

Do you understand the difference between price manipulating "merch" clans, and solo merchanting?

[canadiansmurf]

"Do you understand the difference between price manipulating "merch" clans, and solo merchanting?"

 

 

 

Do you understand that solo merchants usually ride the coat-tails of the merch clans?

 

 

 

It stands to reason that even if you are oblivious to merch clans if you are solo merching, jagex just tweaking prices at whim will affect the solo merchanter as well.

 

 

 

If clan merch is banned, than I don't see how solo merch will still be possible. They aren't the same but they are similar.

 

 

 

These clans will just become smaller and more discrete and they will chat off of rs. How exactly will jagex be able to identify the solo merchanter vs the clan merchanter, if the solo merchanter is accidentally investing in the same item as some clan?

 

 

 

Also this is a mmorpg, not a solo game. Yet.

[Ravenkana]

I'm sure Jagex would take weeks to figure out whether someone is price manipulating or not with long logs of their ge transactions. They arn't going to go on one sale or purchase and ban someone right there. I'm pretty sure they'd treat this like macroing and do a heavy search into the person's account for a month or so back.

Right, riiiight... just like they did with RWT.

 

 

 

Of course they won't do that- they're customer service team is too small in proportion to the number of players to do that. How many times have players been wrongfully punished, without proof, sent in an appeal and gotten it back five minutes later telling them they were in full control of the account at the time and Jagex had conclusive proof, which they never showed, that they committed the crime. Face it, that rout would have too many casualties, probably more even then the War Against RWT.

[Master_Smither]

"Do you understand the difference between price manipulating "merch" clans, and solo merchanting?"

 

 

 

Do you understand that solo merchants usually ride the coat-tails of the merch clans?

 

 

 

It stands to reason that even if you are oblivious to merch clans if you are solo merching, jagex just tweaking prices at whim will affect the solo merchanter as well.

 

 

 

If clan merch is banned, than I don't see how solo merch will still be possible. They aren't the same but they are similar.

 

 

 

These clans will just become smaller and more discrete and they will chat off of rs. How exactly will jagex be able to identify the solo merchanter vs the clan merchanter, if the solo merchanter is accidentally investing in the same item as some clan?

 

 

 

Also this is a mmorpg, not a solo game. Yet.

 

 

 

Your wrong plenty of people ride real market trends to make money. These people know what they are doing and study the market for trends and buy it when it's slow and sell as the real demand rises. The people who ride price manipulator's waves are manipulators themselves.

 

 

 

When they removed free trade and pking people swore they would quit and yet Jagex didn't take a huge impact or as much as those people claimed they would. Most people just changed the way they play and the only people who will quit are the hardcore manipulators who have no merchanting skill and all they know how to do is manipulate. The real merchants will still be able to make money because they have some real skill.

 

 

 

I'm sure Jagex would take weeks to figure out whether someone is price manipulating or not with long logs of their ge transactions. They arn't going to go on one sale or purchase and ban someone right there. I'm pretty sure they'd treat this like macroing and do a heavy search into the person's account for a month or so back.

Right, riiiight... just like they did with RWT.

 

 

 

Of course they won't do that- they're customer service team is too small in proportion to the number of players to do that. How many times have players been wrongfully punished, without proof, sent in an appeal and gotten it back five minutes later telling them they were in full control of the account at the time and Jagex had conclusive proof, which they never showed, that they committed the crime. Face it, that rout would have too many casualties, probably more even then the War Against RWT.

 

 

 

Most wrongfully punished players have had their offences removed with the new system. Also considering you can now only make appeals if it's a serious offence Jagex has time to read all the appeals because they are swamped with offensive language appeals that would take off .1 blackmark's from someones account.

 

 

 

Jagex isn't stupid they can tell who is manipulating and who is not that I am 100% sure of.

[magzar]

The leaders make so much money one little limpwurt wont mean anything.

 

 

 

It's not one little limp..

 

 

 

And this only happened to one clan, yet they're all "rioting". It's because they think Jagex is screwing around with them, and they're not happy. Plus the public relations mod in the RSOF thread, Mod Mat K, wasn't too nice to them. (But he was hilarious for the rest of us).

 

 

 

I bet the person who dumped their limps at min and drove down prices is sitting around giggling their [wagon] off right now. I damn well would be.

[das]

Changed topic title to be less accustory. if these clan chats are getting locked. looks like jagex is pissed.

 

 

 

I wish they would make a front page topic newsfeed if they do

[forestfrolic]

Changed topic title to be less accustory. if these clan chats are getting locked. looks like jagex is pissed.

 

 

 

Yeah, good idea.

[Master_Smither]

Changed topic title to be less accustory. if these clan chats are getting locked. looks like jagex is pissed.

 

 

 

I wish they would make a front page topic newsfeed if they do

 

 

 

Thank you I requested that :) Didn't like Mod Mat K being bashed

 

 

 

Also ya confirmed that Smokin Mils is locked not sure about Grandmerch3r.

[canadiansmurf]

Your wrong plenty of people ride real market trends to make money. These people know what they are doing and study the market for trends and buy it when it's slow and sell as the real demand rises. The people who ride price manipulator's waves are manipulators themselves.

 

 

 

... Common sense? You are not alone in studying the trends, if anything these trends are not worth investing in anymore, items crash much faster following trends now. Unless you are deliberatly being stupid and hiding your head in the sand, trends are not the way to go to invest at the moment.

 

 

 

Buying when prices are low? And praying that prices go up? Good luck. True merchanters are looking for profits in the millions and they don't want to wait months for it.

 

 

 

"The people who ride price manipulator's waves are manipulators themselves."

 

 

 

Some solo investors are doing this but aren't aware that they are doing this, some manipulators CAUSE trends. Where is the line drawn between the solo mercher and the clan mercher? How exactly would jagex be able to tell the difference it would be impossible.

 

 

 

 

 

When they removed free trade and pking people swore they would quit and yet Jagex didn't take a huge impact or as much as those people claimed they would.

 

 

 

Look around lots of people have quit, there was an impact, and Jagex has lost members. I remember when I used to play before trade restrictions it was rare to see a high level in F2P now it's rare not to see a high level in F2P or a pure with multiple accounts. What I do see is a lack of new players, who are truly new to the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most people just changed the way they play and the only people who will quit are the hardcore manipulators who have no merchanting skill and all they know how to do is manipulate. The real merchants will still be able to make money because they have some real skill.

 

 

 

"Real merchanters" have more skill than you will ever have, the ones manipulating are the ones with true skill, by manipulating others they gain a guaranteed return, so why would they be patient and wait for the market to go up or why would they risk their gp when they can force it to go up and earn lots of money guaranteed.

 

 

 

 

 

"Most people just changed the way they play"

 

 

 

Yes players have been doing this since Runescape began, this game keeps changing but if the game became more restricted and had more rules, I doubt those who have stuck around will stay longer.

 

 

 

There's only so much change someone can take, and the game you are playing for FUN shouldn't end up feeling like you are in school or supervised to the extent you can't do anything much.

[Jesus_Status]

....wow

 

 

 

The real manipulators have absolutely no skill. They have a huge cash pile, so they invest it in a large quantity of a random good. They then tell their clan to invest in said item. They then dump the item once it has risen due to the huge amount of people buying that item. They only thing their doing is profiting off people looking for a way to make a quick buck. NO skill, just shear GREED.

[ArtemisCatal]

I don't understand why people think that taking advantage of the ge's flawed system to make money is considered against the rules. Just like the 26k trick, it's discouraged but people still do it. If you don't like it, move on and make money/items other ways. Until jagex does something about it, there's really nothing nobody can do.

 

 

 

This is the Runescape equivalent of organized crime, and they are killing the economy. The 26k trick has caused deflation that has ran the market for slayers and people doing mage training arena, and gdw and how many other legitimate money making opportunities into the ground!! And the merch clans are causing rapid inflation/deflation cycles around items unpredictably.

 

 

 

It's one thing when real market forces are at work and people us them. Pking supply prices tanked after pk was removed. When pk returned, the demand was back should re-energizer the market. More demand-prices should go up. If Jagex puts in a new way to train, prices should change to accommodate the items new value.

 

 

 

Limproots did not change in real value. They were artificially caused to inflate by a monopoly controlling supply. Then, when they are dropped by these merchants, the supply is artificially increased, causing the price to crash again and deflate.

 

 

 

The longer this economic craziness goes on, the more and more people are going to find that the only way to make any real money will be merch clans, because you can't make are reliable income off of slayer or skilling, or tt or anything.

 

 

 

I hope this is a sign Jagex is finally realizing this and is going to take some measures to stop it. Now, if we could just get some of the "valuable"/"worthless" junk thing sorted out we could have a real economy.

 

 

 

Edit: the merch clans need not skill: they are not following market trends, they are MAKING market trends. Any commonly traded item without a low price cap will do. They are not examining trends and demand like a solo merchant (which I have no problem with). It is the organizing together to make artificial market trends that is the problem.

[Master_Smither]

Your wrong plenty of people ride real market trends to make money. These people know what they are doing and study the market for trends and buy it when it's slow and sell as the real demand rises. The people who ride price manipulator's waves are manipulators themselves.

 

 

 

... Common sense? You are not alone in studying the trends, if anything these trends are not worth investing in anymore, items crash much faster following trends now. Unless you are deliberatly being stupid and hiding your head in the sand, trends are not the way to go to invest at the moment.

 

 

 

Buying when prices are low? And praying that prices go up? Good luck. True merchanters are looking for profits in the millions and they don't want to wait months for it.

 

 

 

It takes a real merchant with true skills to know what items won't fall faster than they rose. People who realy merchant know what I'm talking about so if you don't then don't even start.

 

 

 

"The people who ride price manipulator's waves are manipulators themselves."

 

 

 

Some solo investors are doing this but aren't aware that they are doing this, some manipulators CAUSE trends. Where is the line drawn between the solo mercher and the clan mercher? How exactly would jagex be able to tell the difference it would be impossible.

 

 

 

Jagex is a very smart company they will be able to tell someone who merchants solo because they won't invest as much as a manipulator will because they know the item will rise. Manipulators will throw a major junk of their cash pile at an item where solo merchants will throw a part of it so they don't get burned too badly if it goes wrong. Trends happen over weeks or even months at a time, manipulators make something rise then fall over a week's period it's very easy to tell a real trend from a fake trend. Again a real merchant would understand this.

 

 

 

When they removed free trade and pking people swore they would quit and yet Jagex didn't take a huge impact or as much as those people claimed they would.

 

 

 

Look around lots of people have quit, there was an impact, and Jagex has lost members. I remember when I used to play before trade restrictions it was rare to see a high level in F2P now it's rare not to see a high level in F2P or a pure with multiple accounts. What I do see is a lack of new players, who are truly new to the game.

 

 

 

Lack of new players? There are tons of new players entering the game

 

 

 

Most people just changed the way they play and the only people who will quit are the hardcore manipulators who have no merchanting skill and all they know how to do is manipulate. The real merchants will still be able to make money because they have some real skill.

 

 

 

"Real merchanters" have more skill than you will ever have, the ones manipulating are the ones with true skill, by manipulating others they gain a guaranteed return, so why would they be patient and wait for the market to go up or why would they risk their gp when they can force it to go up and earn lots of money guaranteed.

 

 

 

First do you know me and can you tell me I have no market skills? So your saying manipulating other players is smart? Your saying that hurting other players to make money is fine? Your saying that someone who can tell trends and make millions per day with skill actually has less skill than someone who plays follow the leader? I doubt anyone else on this forum would agree with that.

 

 

 

"Most people just changed the way they play"

 

 

 

Yes players have been doing this since Runescape began, this game keeps changing but if the game became more restricted and had more rules, I doubt those who have stuck around will stay longer.

 

 

 

There's only so much change someone can take, and the game you are playing for FUN shouldn't end up feeling like you are in school or supervised to the extent you can't do anything much.

 

 

 

I think your thinking that almost everyone price manipulates. The majority of Runescape has never even joined on of those clan chats nor though about it. Price manipulators are hurting players directly for their our personal gain. This was considered item scamming when I started Runescape back in 2004 and I consider it item scamming today. Now with Jagex locking accounts of well know price manipulators I think that clearly states that they don't support price manipulation. I encourage them to step in because it is for the better of the game and I think many people will agree with that. Getting rid of free trade was for the better of the game and we stuck by Jagex then. If you feel Runescape is too restrictive then go play another game like WOW where rwters and macros roam free.

 

 

 

I realy think you need to take a look at what price manipulators realy due along with having a long discussion with a real merchant about what they. Stating blatantly wrong and stupid remarks does not look good especially when you are still a budding member of these forums. Also I suggest learning how to use the quote function red text realy doesn't look great.

 

 

 

I however need sleep and this will be my last post for the night have a nice night and take my advice it will help you.

[canadiansmurf]

The 26k trick has caused deflation that has ran the market for slayers and people doing mage training arena, and gdw and how many other legitimate money making opportunities into the ground!!

 

 

 

Yeah, those horrible pvp cheaters.

 

Let's not blame jagex for putting those drops into PVP to begin with.

 

Let's not blame jagex for creating the rules for pvp, and allowing the 26k trick.

 

 

 

^ Let's blame the players for playing by jagex's convoluted rules.

 

 

 

 

 

Let's not blame jagex for creating a flawed GE, letting the problem of inflation, buy-out's and then crashes continue for so long

 

 

 

Let's praise jagex and laugh at the people who were burned by a clearly artificial price change on one item.

 

 

 

Let's praise jagex for still allowing merchanting, as someone who merchanted pre-GE, this new type of merchanting is nothing at all like what it was before trade restrictions. That was merchanting, this is gambling and manipulation.

 

 

 

Let's let jagex off the hook for not fixing the ge, for making trade restrictions and then having the sheer hypocrisy of saying that players set the price.

 

 

 

^ With trade restrictions price manipulating is the only way to earn gp on rs now, without going to godwars etc. But let's blame the players, no let's blame the merch clans.

 

 

 

^ And how exactly are the merch clan leaders the greedy ones, when there are lots of RS players willing to follow what they say about investing? The people investing are greedy as well.

 

 

 

Solo merchers are greedy as well, both solo merchers and merch clans earn gp off of every day rs players instead of earning it themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

The biggest problem here is jagex stepping in and manipulating and tweaking prices at will. Unstable prices impacts and will harm skillers and regular players.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

You know...ultimately, Mod Mat K denied any manipulation whatsoever on his part. He offered some valid theories as to why they crashed all of a sudden (somewhere within the first fifteen pages; I know it's a long read, but it's probably worth it).

 

 

 

Consider that Jagex also had kept the option of manual manipulation open in dire cases. I really don't think that a sudden [bleep]e in Limpwurts denoted a dire case. There's too many variables - were Limps truly bought out? Did the clans have someone working against them? Was there a rival merchant clan really trying to bring their product down? Of course, I'm clutching at straws, but it goes to prove that there's more than one explanation as to why Limps took such a dive.

 

 

 

Lastly, a comment about a "free" market - in my eyes, it's nothing more than a pipe-dream at best. No market, no matter what, can ever be 100% free. I feel this way because I know that people (read: merchants) are hard-headed; if they could set the price to whatever the heck they wanted, I don't think that anyone here would be able to afford D Claws or anything else we wanted.

 

 

 

Not interested in getting into a debate about it right now, though - you have your views on a free market, I have mine. Let's let that alone for now.