Mod Mat K & Manipulator clans Debate

[Gandorf61]

This is just too awesome. Even if Jagex has nothing to do with the change in price I am just beaming with happiness over the suffering's of price manipulators. Honestly, they deserve whatever loses they get. Price manipulating is basically stealing money from people who play runescape normally without watching the markets 24/7.

 

 

 

+1 for Jagex, cookies to them.

[das]

Snapdragon is a luxury, not a need, you can level with other goods.

 

 

 

Too many people mistake luxury for needs.

 

 

 

 

I forgot that I don't "need" super restores at any God Wars except Bandos.

 

 

 

And yes, God Wars is a "need" place for some. Some people do boss fights all the time. Not everyone plays the same way you do, and in return, not everyone has the same "needs" as you.

 

 

 

 

 

The difficulty in quantifying runescape is that yes, some people need items for one event whereas a kid buying an item to do another is not a need.

 

 

 

However people seem to it's control and risk free, it's far from it

 

 

 

Overall, Finshed goods are dangerous to try to control, especially things like potions or let's say runes. Many people are probably sitting on millions and hundreds of thousands of runes and potions that they dont feel they should sell for the GE price range, an un-natural manipulation of them could cause people to dump the items in bulk. I dont really follow the potions trend, i'm sitting on a near liftime supply and wont ever need to sell mine to make ends meet, but I'd be surprised if people tried to control the potion market.

 

 

 

Stuff like barrows and higher end armor (GWD) is more easy to control because it cannot be created, it must be killed for, which means in most likelyhood, no one is sitting on hundreds sets of varrock, bandos or the like.

 

 

 

Rune Armor is very disposable, I know the big clans go through 50+ sets like candy in a few days sometimes, so it's going to be hard to maniup an item like rune because retired pkers like me, have 100+ sets they would dump for the right price but might hold incase they need them ;)

 

 

 

Raw Materials are tricky, people mine and fish and the sort for money, so it's hard to control those. Never know what piles people are sitting on.

 

 

 

Secondaries would be the most interesting. Most have to be gathered , farmed , and that can be numbingly slow (wines of zammy - eww) , so while they can, time is money so people like to buy them, since they cant be mass created/gathered for the most part, I can see where this has less risk.

 

 

 

First come first serve does bother me. If i'm willing to spend more, I should get it before the kid who spends less. Especially if it's a limited good.

[magzar]

Snapdragon is a luxury, not a need, you can level with other goods.

 

 

 

Too many people mistake luxury for needs.

 

 

 

 

I forgot that I don't "need" super restores at any God Wars except Bandos.

 

 

 

And yes, God Wars is a "need" place for some. Some people do boss fights all the time. Not everyone plays the same way you do, and in return, not everyone has the same "needs" as you.

 

 

 

 

 

The difficulty in quantifying runescape is that yes, some people need items for one event whereas a kid buying an item to do another is not a need.

 

 

 

However people seem to it's control and risk free, it's far from it

 

 

 

Overall, Finshed goods are dangerous to try to control, especially things like potions or let's say runes. Many people are probably sitting on millions and hundreds of thousands of runes and potions that they dont feel they should sell for the GE price range, an un-natural manipulation of them could cause people to dump the items in bulk. I dont really follow the potions trend, i'm sitting on a near liftime supply and wont ever need to sell mine to make ends meet, but I'd be surprised if people tried to control the potion market.

 

 

 

Stuff like barrows and higher end armor (GWD) is more easy to control because it cannot be created, it must be killed for, which means in most likelyhood, no one is sitting on hundreds sets of varrock, bandos or the like.

 

 

 

Rune Armor is very disposable, I know the big clans go through 50+ sets like candy in a few days sometimes, so it's going to be hard to maniup an item like rune because retired pkers like me, have 100+ sets they would dump for the right price but might hold incase they need them ;)

 

 

 

Raw Materials are tricky, people mine and fish and the sort for money, so it's hard to control those. Never know what piles people are sitting on.

 

 

 

Secondaries would be the most interesting. Most have to be gathered , farmed , and that can be numbingly slow (wines of zammy - eww) , so while they can, time is money so people like to buy them, since they cant be mass created/gathered for the most part, I can see where this has less risk.

 

 

 

First come first serve does bother me. If i'm willing to spend more, I should get it before the kid who spends less. Especially if it's a limited good.

 

 

 

First come first served is the only way the the G.E. can realistically work in my opinion. If the queue were based on best offers, then it would be impossible to ever buy anything for less than max because there's always going to be people like me who are willing to pay the higher prices for the convenience of the item buying instantly. This would leave poorer players who really can't afford to buy everything at max unable to get items they need.

 

 

 

The way i see it, if a person has had an offer in at medium for a week, and another person has had an offer in for max for 2 days, then someone decides to sell for med, the person with the med offer should take priority.

 

 

 

The way i think it works is that when an item is sold, the queue begins with the oldest offer that meets or exceeds the sellers price, which seems like a perfectly reasonable system to me. It also completely explains how limpwurt roots could drop during a buyout.

[0l30l3]

ugh - love being a lurker, but had to give my input :wall:

 

 

 

Currently price manipulation clans, however you want to define them, act under what is known as a monopsony. No, I did not mispell monopoly - it is an entirely different word. A monopsony is in essence the opposite of a monopoly. In a monopoly there is only 1 seller of a good. In a monopsony there is only 1 buyer (or in this case 1 group acting as 1). This is and has been limited by the government because it is considered unfair competition.

 

 

 

Creating artificial demand like these groups do takes away from the game experience of those who don't no matter how you look at it. It doesn't bother me too much personally, but for the good of the economy it should be limited or eliminated in my opinion. There is nothing more frustrating than knowing you can't do some activity, or have to go collecting things you normally wouldn't have to, because some group of merchanters completely bought out a commonly used good. You can't even let your money speak by saying F*** it I'll pay some more to get it, because there simply isn't any more left in the market.

[Dragonlordjl]

ugh - love being a lurker, but had to give my input :wall:

 

 

 

Currently price manipulation clans, however you want to define them, act under what is known as a monopsony. No, I did not mispell monopoly - it is an entirely different word. A monopsony is in essence the opposite of a monopoly. In a monopoly there is only 1 seller of a good. In a monopsony there is only 1 buyer (or in this case 1 group acting as 1). This is and has been limited by the government because it is considered unfair competition.

 

 

 

Creating artificial demand like these groups do takes away from the game experience of those who don't no matter how you look at it. It doesn't bother me too much personally, but for the good of the economy it should be limited or eliminated in my opinion. There is nothing more frustrating than knowing you can't do some activity, or have to go collecting things you normally wouldn't have to, because some group of merchanters completely bought out a commonly used good. You can't even let your money speak by saying F*** it I'll pay some more to get it, because there simply isn't any more left in the market.

 

 

 

This is why I hate them.

[magzar]

hey guys, if anyone is interested check out my thread on the RSOF about this subject.

 

 

 

74-75-14-58931157

[Aeon_]

05-Jun-2009 21:18:23

 

Last edited on 05-Jun-2009 21:22:06 by Mod Mat K

 

Now, this is interesting:

 

 

 

"Why not do this to swamp lizards or ring of wealths?

 

Why did you single us out? "

 

 

 

I believe 2lum is merching swamp lizards; I don't know about RoWs

[magzar]

05-Jun-2009 21:18:23

 

Last edited on 05-Jun-2009 21:22:06 by Mod Mat K

 

Now, this is interesting:

 

 

 

"Why not do this to swamp lizards or ring of wealths?

 

Why did you single us out? "

 

 

 

I believe 2lum is merching swamp lizards; I don't know about RoWs

 

 

 

 

 

What? I didn't post that.

[Tim]

 

Price manipulation has always been against the Rs rules, yet these clans manipulating the prices still persist, yes it is because the g.e can be manipulated, but just because you can do something, should you?

 

 

It's like saying "Just because you can kill someone doesn't mean you should." (Least I hope I said that right)

 

 

 

anyway, its a good thing realy, means all these players who are mooching off others are finally getting what they deserve.

 

 

 

. I dont really follow the potions trend, i'm sitting on a near liftime supply and wont ever need to sell mine to make ends meet, but I'd be surprised if people tried to control the potion market.

 

Consider yourself lucky Das, your not being drawn into the spiral of death unlike us lesser-wealthy players.

 

 

 

Off-Topic: Prayer pots are now over 10k. Damn you Grand Exchange and your faulty system...

[Krampell]

Gf them. :D

[magzar]

Why do people believe G.E. prices can only fluctuate by 5% per day when if you look on the front page of the G.E. database there are a ton of items that change by more than 5% every single day?

 

 

 

Edit: 600th post \

[ArtemisCatal]

LOL, Ive been reading this board for years but this thread finally made me post.

 

 

 

Sorry guys, but you have completely missed the point on what this really is; it is not investing, not in the least! Its insider trading, which is very illegal in real life.

 

 

 

Just like a drug company knows that the FDA is going to approve their new drug and the share price is going to go up. The merch clans KNOW that the price is going to go up, because they are going to make it go up, so they buy at the price, until the price is up, then dump. Its like they are the company buying the stock and the FDA approving the drugs too!

 

 

 

Better Example: Its just like if I knew the corn crop was going to fail, because I poisoned all the fields, so in preparation I bought up all of last years corn. Then when the corn crop failed, I could sell my corn for whatever price was, because I controlled it all. Even the few people whos corn didnt fail would just be a drop in the bucket compared to the massive glut of corn I put up for sale. They do the same thing with Runescape items on the G.E. Im investing based on insider information not available to everyone, just like they are with their little racketeering consortiums.

[Imalilranger]

LOL, Ive been reading this board for years but this thread finally made me post.

 

 

 

Sorry guys, but you have completely missed the point on what this really is; it is not investing, not in the least! Its insider trading, which is very illegal in real life.

 

 

 

Just like a drug company knows that the FDA is going to approve their new drug and the share price is going to go up. The merch clans KNOW that the price is going to go up, because they are going to make it go up, so they buy at the price, until the price is up, then dump. Its like they are the company buying the stock and the FDA approving the drugs too!

 

 

 

Better Example: Its just like if I knew the corn crop was going to fail, because I poisoned all the fields, so in preparation I bought up all of last years corn. Then when the corn crop failed, I could sell my corn for whatever price was, because I controlled it all. Even the few people whos corn didnt fail would just be a drop in the bucket compared to the massive glut of corn I put up for sale. They do the same thing with Runescape items on the G.E. Im investing based on insider information not available to everyone, just like they are with their little racketeering consortiums.

 

 

 

THANK GOD SOMEONE DID THIS COMPARISON.

 

 

 

The merchant clans are insider trading, that's why Martha Stewart went to prison. ;)

[magzar]

Wow there's actually an intelligent person on the RSOF, and a member of a merch clan no less. Strange I always thought of the RSOF like mars, completely devoid of any intelligent lifeforms.

[PURESMITHER]

Wait.. so.. basically, merch clans were trying to price manipulate limps and *supposedly* a mod made them all drop.

 

 

 

 

 

If so, NICE GOING JAGEX! \

[sadukar123]

This rant is basically like whining that it is harder to item scam.

 

 

 

LOL

 

 

 

This person is full of win.

[Den]

Owned.

 

 

 

They steal money from others all the time, but when they loose a little money they go flame Jagex for it.

 

 

 

Sad is the only way to descibe those clans.

[Ezz]

Haha, that's pretty funny :lol:

 

 

 

But at the same time not so funny. I remember back when the GE first came out Jagex sincerely promised they would never mess with the prices unless it was necessary (such as getting items to move in price again, partyhats for example). And them doing this breaks a quite heavy promise.

[K112]

Put simply; Good.

 

 

 

It's about time those clans lost some money. And over all their wining, they should know that merchenting carries a significant risk, buying something with the hop eit will always rise in value is called speculation, and was one of the main causes of the Wall Street Crash in 1929.

 

(Thank you GCSE history)

[Lets_3ekout]

05-Jun-2009 21:18:23

 

Last edited on 05-Jun-2009 21:22:06 by Mod Mat K

 

Now, this is interesting:

 

 

 

"Why not do this to swamp lizards or ring of wealths?

 

Why did you single us out? "

 

 

 

I believe 2lum is merching swamp lizards; I don't know about RoWs

 

Damn clans, always merching out whatever you need :thumbdown:

 

 

 

Whatever merch clans get, they deserve it. They've been annoying the $%^& out of me ever since the GE - they're the only thing wrong with GE in my eyes.

[Wachtwoord]

And to the poster who posted about a new update and not being able to train skills because the merchanter's bought out the GE, 2 years ago(and for all the years before that), that was considered marketing strategy. That's simple economics, not abuse. If I had a large sum of cash, and Jagex made pretty clear that a new update would probably require a certain raw material, I stocked up on that material. You're telling me you wouldn't as well?

 

My major problem with merch clans is not being able to buy an Zamorak brew for a decent price for a couple of months! To get any, I had to train my herblore to 78 and then spending more money on Z brew then I could have if they wouldn't have been merched! :x Of course this was just an example, it happens with a lot of items. Now tell that isn't ruining the economy?

[das]

My major problem with merch clans is not being able to buy an Zamorak brew for a decent price for a couple of months! To get any, I had to train my herblore to 78 and then spending more money on Z brew then I could have if they wouldn't have been merched! :x Of course this was just an example, it happens with a lot of items. Now tell that isn't ruining the economy?

 

 

 

 

 

In your example, I dont see how it would of done more harm than good.

 

 

 

To train herblore - you bought herbs and seconds and probably made potions at a loss - removing GP from a game that in all honesty, needs more moneysinks.

 

You bettered yourself - you have higher skills and your character is "better" then he was.

 

Your character depending on how many levels you gained, has more of a shot to produce money and profit at various times in the future

 

You made finished products that one day can be bought and sold by players who need them.

 

 

 

I guess the main difference is I grew up in an era in classic and rs2 with no centralized economy, you had to be aggressive in the forums or in busy worlds like world 2. My game taught work and self sufficiency, and the GE feels like McDonalds, you go order and get your food/items quick. So these guys really don't affect me.

 

 

 

Self Sufficiency for the win!

 

 

 

As for first come first serve?

 

 

 

The person with more money should always get priority over the person with less.

 

In classic money was a hell of a lot harder then than now and people were used to working hard to save for an item. Not wanting to "Get in range" to get in line for an intem.

 

 

 

If you do it based on a line system, money has became a hell of a lot more worthless because all it serves is a means to get in line to buy, not direct raw purchasing power.

[Seraphi]

I laughed at that thread.

 

Mat K is just tormenting them now, its so funny.

 

If Jagex did intervene, they finally took the warning, which is good.

 

Manipulators would have just become a bigger and bigger problem.

[Eyebeam]

The person with more money should always get priority over the person with less.

 

 

 

Tbh, I believe that the queue in the ge can be easily be cut by offering a higher price. Ie, if you buy an sgs for max now, I believe that you will get it instantly.

 

 

 

However, this "queue" cannot be cut when all offers for the items are placed for either max or min.

 

 

 

As such, the person with more money DOES get more priority in the GE system.

 

 

 

EDITED: I believe I mis-read Das's post.

[Karvinen]

Would RuneScape be better if the ability of having personal wealth was removed (communism)?