Mod Mat K & Manipulator clans Debate

[Rien]

Heh, I wish I had taken the opportunity to play during the RSC era; from your descriptions and what I've learned from other players, I'd imagine RSC was extraordinarily interesting. *Wistful* :|

 

 

 

As for my opinion, if Mod Mat K artificially depressed the price of limpwurts (as would appear to be the case) to deliberately interfere with the workings of a merchanting clan, then I am greatly disappointed. I doubt anyone aside from the manipulators themselves would would endorse the flagrant price manipulations these merchanting clans orchestrate, but striking back at the players by intentionally abusing one's powers to adversely adjust specific GE prices is nothing more than childish and hypocritical.

 

 

 

I don't particularly care for the people involved in mass merchanting clans (I do believe that manipulating prices via the flaws in the GE is not in the spirit of the game), but I can also understand that this form of emergent gameplay arose as a direct result of implementing the GE to combat RWT. Free trade is the superior economic model, in my opinion, and I believe RuneScape lost a great deal of its allure when Jagex was forced to limit trade and set certain restrictions--even if it was a necessary action. Being a more or less self-sufficient player myself, the price fluctuations created by merchanting clans does me little harm, so in that aspect the effects of the GE don't concern me. However, the GE has harmed everyone--those reliant and self-sufficient alike--in that its "convenience" has effectively crippled player interaction and caused for a markedly evident decline in the RuneScape community. Similarly to the additions of the home teleport and gravestones, practically everyone makes use of such updates for individual benefit and convenience, but this, in turn, only serves to slowly poison the game itself. It's a shame, really; it's painfully clear to me why so many "old-school" players can hardly bring themselves to play these days.

 

 

 

Anyway, and before I go too far off on a tangent, I mean to say that blaming manipulators soley for price fluctuations and the problems average 'scapers experience with the GE is a misguided attempt to scapegoat a generally disliked group of players. They are merely taking advantage of blatantly obvious flaws in the system and staying informed to profit themselves; by all means, they are simply utilizing their resources and being intelligent. Who can blame them for that?

[das]

Can anyone prove it has a negative effect on the economy?

[Master_Smither]

Can anyone prove it has a negative effect on the economy?

 

 

 

When a clan buys out limpwurts the herblorists and the people who use them have to pay more for their stuff because of unnatural demand. Now when the clans dump the people who collect the limpwurts can't sell them even for min and they lose money they could have had if they would have left the item alone.

 

 

 

Causing false demand and then causing false supply hurts the economy because someone somewhere is going to have to pay more when they shouldn't have to.

 

 

 

Not to mention the people in the clans who are promised to make money usually end up getting dumped on by the leaders.

[Rien]

Can anyone prove it has a negative effect on the economy?

I would say that while it may harm certain players or benefit others at different times, price manipulation overall lends much-needed dynamism to the economy.

 

 

 

'Better for prices to be wildly fluctuating than for them to become stagnant, I'd say.

[britonlongbow]

'Better for prices to be wildly fluctuating than for them to become stagnant, I'd say.

 

 

 

Not true, uncertainty is one of the worst things for an economy. If I know when I buy item x that It doesn't have the potential to suddenly lose half of it's value I am much more willing to buy. Uncertainty scares buyers and sellers because their items might suddenly become worth far more or far less

[das]

Can anyone prove it has a negative effect on the economy?

 

 

 

When a clan buys out limpwurts the herblorists and the people who use them have to pay more for their stuff because of unnatural demand. Now when the clans dump the people who collect the limpwurts can't sell them even for min and they lose money they could have had if they would have left the item alone.

 

 

 

 

They cant grow them or gather them by slaying hobgoblins and increase the supply?

 

 

 

Asides, if they did that, they might profit much more than paying 1k+ per second.

 

 

 

I mean, these things went from what...1k to 1.2k? in days? weeks? cant be a HUGE supply of them for that small of an increase over a long period of time.

 

 

 

And the GE does have buying limits. If you have limits and even they cant buy (As evidence from the RSOF thread)

 

The supply is VERY low.

 

 

 

If I know when I buy item x that It doesn't have the potential to suddenly lose half of it's value I am much more willing to buy. Uncertainty scares buyers and sellers because their items might suddenly become worth far more or far less

 

 

 

Are people not capable of deciding what an item is worth to sell to them and worth buying to them?

[magzar]

Das, yes it can be proven that it has a negative effect as it causes unnatural [bleep]es and dips in prices.

 

 

 

Anyway I'm going to post the explanation I posted in the RSOF for what happened. Maybe that will open a few players eyes and make them realize that Mod Mat didn't touch prices.

 

 

 

[hide=]

Magzar

 

 

 

 

 

06-Jun-2009 07:04:42

 

Last edited on 06-Jun-2009 07:07:14 by Magzar

 

Ok I won't even try to post in the "merch clans revolt" thread as it's so bogged down with spam that this will just get lost.

 

 

 

I thought it would be prudent however, to sort of put forth an explanation as to what happened to limpwurt prices.

 

 

 

See, it appears that most players operate under the assumption that a high offer will always beat out a lower offer when buying. This does not seem to be the case. Going by what Mod Mat K said about being "higher in the queue" this is what we can infer:

 

 

 

-The G.E. operates on a first come first served basis, meaning that an older offer will always take precedence over a newer offer of the same value.

 

 

 

-When a sell offer is made, the G.E. finds the oldest buy offer of equal or greater value than the seller's request.

 

 

 

Let's put forth an example. Say Player A puts in a med offer for a party hat. Then 2 weeks later, Player B puts in a max offer. 3 days later Player C decides to sell their party hat for med price. Even though Player B offered more for the party hat, Player A would be the one to receive it. This is because Player A matched the asking price, and had their offer in before player B. If Player C had chosen to sell for med+1 then Player B would have received the p-hat due to the fact that they placed the oldest offer that met or surpassed the asking price.

 

 

 

To put this into Limpwurt terms. Certain players put in offers as the price was rising.(we can even assume they were max offers. At the next G.E. update the price of limps rose above the previous max offers. Then the buyout began, Merch clans flooded the G.E. with max offers buying out all available offers above the previous max prices. When the previous max price reached just above the current min price, someone dumped massive amounts for min. Since the oldest max offers were still above the current min price, they received priority, therefore driving down the prices.

 

 

 

 

Let's put it like this.

 

 

 

Clan A puts in max offers for Item A just before a G.E. update

 

Item A's max price is currently 150

 

The G.E. Updates

 

Item A's max price is now 168

 

Clan B begins a full scale buyout, flooding the market with new max offers at every update.

 

Clan A does not update their offers.

 

Clan B receives far more Item A's than Clan A.

 

Item A's minimum price reaches 148

 

Some of Clan B(or even a Clan C who had been already buying Item A and were ready to sell) decides they're going to sell early and make a profit before they can get screwed over.

 

They dump all their stock of Item A on the market for minimum price.

 

Clan A's offers are at the top of the queue as they are older and exceed the selling price.

 

Nearly all of the dumped Item A goes to Clan A

 

Because many more of Item A are being sold for 150 than for max Item A's price drops

 

Clan B does not notice a dump because they don't receive any extra of Item A simply because their offers were much more recently placed.

 

 

 

It completely explains the situation if you think about it.

 

 

 

Honestly it wouldn't take that many to cause a 5% drop in price. As long as more were being sold for a min than were selling for max the price would show a decline.

 

 

 

I'm not positive of the math on how many more have to be sold for min than max to cause a 5% decline, but with them being bought out and very few being traded on the market, it would take a much much smaller dump to cause a huge price drop than it would if they were being traded normally.

 

 

 

Say for instance then normal number of limps traded per day was an average of 150k or something(that's probably way off I know) with that many traded per day it would mean more than half of them would have to be sold for below med for the price to drop.

 

 

 

Now with them bought out, let's say that number drops to about 10k traded per day, almost all of which are being bought at max, driving the price up.

 

 

 

Now the oldest set of offers on the market is for 50k limpwurt at a bit above min, and someone dumps 55k limpwurt into the market for min. 50k of that would go to those old low offers, while 5k would go to the clan buying them out. that would mean 10x more limpwurt roots were being sold for next to min, while only 5k were sold for max. Imagine how much that would drive down the price in that one day. That's 10x more sold for a low price than were sold for max.

 

 

 

You see how that makes sense?

[/hide]

 

 

 

Sorry I know it's a bit of a long read, but I think you may find that it presents another option for what happened with prices.

 

 

 

Anyway moving on, Merch clans are a problem for the average everyday scaper. Say for instance a player gets a slayer task of iron dragons. At that point in time, let's assume a major merch clan has decided to merch antifire pots for some odd reason.

 

Now this clan buys out the entire stock of antifire pots.

 

 

 

When that Player goes to the G.E. to buy enough for his task, he finds that he can't purchase a single pot, even at max. Now lets say this player is relatively low level, and doesn't have either the level to make his own antifires, or the money to train his level high enough to do so. Let's also assume that his melee combat stats are too low to make praying against them plausible. Is this player simply supposed to abandon his desire to complete his slayer task until the clan dumps the pots, which could be several days, or more?

 

 

 

Considering the player pays to play runescape, I see it as his right as a customer to not have to wait simply because other players choose to manipulate the system to make extra money. You call people "whiners" for complaining about items being bought out, but have you even stopped to consider that maybe the real "whiners" are those who complain because they're not being allowed to use their in game wealth as a way to take advantage of the market and bend it to their will?

 

 

 

Let's put forth a real world example, and before you say "you can't compare runescape to real life" shut the hell up because yes you can when it's the same exact principle.

 

 

 

- one of your shoes gets somehow torn open and you need to buy a new pair. However, when you go to the local shoestore, you find out that oprah winfrey has decided to buy out every shoe in the country and none are available from anyone but her. You go to oprah's house in the hopes that she'll see you a pair of shoes, only to find out that she's now charging $10,000 a pair for shoes. You can't afford to pay that for shoes, and haven't even the slightest inkling of how to make your own. Would you consider that to be ok?

 

 

 

on the topic of Das's modship, I was just poking a little fun guys, don't get your panties in a bunch.

 

 

 

-one more thing : Das you talk about gathering limps from hobgoblins, what about skillers? they certainly can't gather them themselves, and farming would take longer than waiting for the merch clans to dump. Do you think they should give up days of membership fees, or abandon their way of playing the game just so merch clans are free to gouge prices at their leisure?

[britonlongbow]

Can anyone prove it has a negative effect on the economy?

 

 

 

When a clan buys out limpwurts the herblorists and the people who use them have to pay more for their stuff because of unnatural demand. Now when the clans dump the people who collect the limpwurts can't sell them even for min and they lose money they could have had if they would have left the item alone.

 

 

 

 

They cant grow them or gather them by slaying hobgoblins and increase the supply?

 

 

 

Asides, if they did that, they might profit much more than paying 1k+ per second.

 

 

 

I mean, these things went from what...1k to 1.2k? in days? weeks? cant be a HUGE supply of them for that small of an increase over a long period of time.

 

 

 

And the GE does have buying limits. If you have limits and even they cant buy (As evidence from the RSOF thread)

 

The supply is VERY low.

 

Merchanting clans are essentially week long monopolies on certain items. If say Kraft gained control of all cheese would it be our jobs to either pay their gouged prices or make our own cheese to increase supply ? If an item you use in the real world on a regular basis suddenly quintupled in price because a singular company owned them you would cry foul. Merchanting clans operate on the exact same principles

[Ravenkana]

To raven:So your saying if there is a flaw or bug in the game that you should abuse it because there is profit? Last I checked people get banned for doing that. Althought price manipulation may not be against the rules in game yet it is on the forums which tells you something.

People get banned for bugs and glitches, not flaws. Particularly not when the flaw is well known to both players and Jagex, has been around for a year and a half without being fixed, and is not, in itself, against the rules.

[strilmus]

Actually, I've seen some manipulations that have lasted for a month. Tell me that don't make the guy who paid for that month all huffy. Heh.

[Master_Smither]

Can anyone prove it has a negative effect on the economy?

 

 

 

When a clan buys out limpwurts the herblorists and the people who use them have to pay more for their stuff because of unnatural demand. Now when the clans dump the people who collect the limpwurts can't sell them even for min and they lose money they could have had if they would have left the item alone.

 

 

 

 

They cant grow them or gather them by slaying hobgoblins and increase the supply?

 

 

 

Asides, if they did that, they might profit much more than paying 1k+ per second.

 

 

 

I mean, these things went from what...1k to 1.2k? in days? weeks? cant be a HUGE supply of them for that small of an increase over a long period of time.

 

 

 

And the GE does have buying limits. If you have limits and even they cant buy (As evidence from the RSOF thread)

 

The supply is VERY low.

 

 

 

People in this day and age have money and spend it for faster training because they can GWD or skill for the money faster than it would take to gather the limps. Actually the supply is quite large due to the fact f2p can kill hob's for limps too and as you said people can farm them.

 

 

 

If I know when I buy item x that It doesn't have the potential to suddenly lose half of it's value I am much more willing to buy. Uncertainty scares buyers and sellers because their items might suddenly become worth far more or far less

 

Are people not capable of deciding what an item is worth to sell to them and worth buying to them?

 

 

 

People shouldn't have to worry about whether or not their item will become the next 3rd age for 3 days or whether it will become the next addy arrows p++ for a week.

 

 

 

To raven:So your saying if there is a flaw or bug in the game that you should abuse it because there is profit? Last I checked people get banned for doing that. Althought price manipulation may not be against the rules in game yet it is on the forums which tells you something.

People get banned for bugs and glitches, not flaws. Particularly not when the flaw is well known to both players and Jagex, has been around for a year and a half without being fixed, and is not, in itself, against the rules.

 

 

 

Jagex has stated the flaw is a problem and they are working to fix it but it takes alot more work than you may think to do so. A bug is a flaw in the game. Obviously jagex see's it as wrong otherwise MMG wouldn't have said anything and Mat K wouldn't have changed the prices(if he even did so in the first place). Abusing a flaw is wrong and I am pretty sure you know that along with most of the other players. But saying that it's been there for a year and a half is true however it has only become a raging problem in the last 6 months and Jagex is currently swamped with quests, the rest option, the new skill, and many other improvements to the game that the players want.

 

 

 

Jagex is working to fix it and they called it a problem a few months ago now I'm sure they will call a major problem.

[Rien]

'Better for prices to be wildly fluctuating than for them to become stagnant, I'd say.

 

 

 

Not true, uncertainty is one of the worst things for an economy. If I know when I buy item x that It doesn't have the potential to suddenly lose half of it's value I am much more willing to buy. Uncertainty scares buyers and sellers because their items might suddenly become worth far more or far less

 

So, do I take your statement to mean that you'd rather Jagex set prices on every tradeable item and leave it at that? Because if item prices stagnate, then they might as well do so.

 

 

 

I'm not saying that unpredictable prices are desirable, but where's the interest in participating in a stale market? Free trade would be ideal, but since we can't have that, I'd prefer the minor tamperings of price manipulators over the hoarding of items by players as a result of the fixed floor/ceiling prices implemented by Jagex.

[das]

one of your shoes gets somehow torn open and you need to buy a new pair. However, when you go to the local shoestore, you find out that oprah winfrey has decided to buy out every shoe in the country and none are available from anyone but her. You go to oprah's house in the hopes that she'll see you a pair of shoes, only to find out that she's now charging $10,000 a pair for shoes. You can't afford to pay that for shoes, and haven't even the slightest inkling of how to make your own. Would you consider that to be ok?

 

 

 

 

 

It's the summer, I wear Sandles, and Nike can produce more shoes. Oprahs money supply isn't unlimited, and sooner or later her empire will crumble. In the meantime I can make do with what I got or buy a substitute.

 

 

 

magzar - you seem to gloss over the fact that the limp price changed at an odd time of the day. Jagex had to of intervened and I would be shocked if someone didn't have a GE feed that updates "live". Explain why that price changed no other major item did?

 

 

 

Considering the player pays to play runescape, I see it as his right as a customer to not have to wait simply because other players choose to manipulate the system to make extra money.

Again, from the RSOF post, the limp supply was very low, some of these guys struggled to buy any on MAX.

 

 

 

Das you talk about gathering limps from hobgoblins, what about skillers? they certainly can't gather them themselves, and farming would take longer than waiting for the merch clans to dump.

 

 

 

3 Limps from 4 patches every 15 minutes is 12 limps per 15 minutes or 48 an hour. Not bad considering one limp buys your seed price and it's a limited good.

 

 

 

If an item you use in the real world on a regular basis suddenly quintupled in price because a singular company owned them you would cry foul.

 

 

 

American Gasoline, phone service (landline) and internet often fall into the monopoly category. So do most other utilities especially in the south of america.

 

 

 

 

 

It's a flaw yes, but the economy would be very stale without it.

 

 

 

It would be interesting to know the amount of limps collected and sold.

 

 

 

Funny you mention addy ++ arrows, I found like 13 on the ground and haven't been able to sell them on min for 2+ months even though I update it daily and the price rises. Lol

[britonlongbow]

'Better for prices to be wildly fluctuating than for them to become stagnant, I'd say.

 

 

 

Not true, uncertainty is one of the worst things for an economy. If I know when I buy item x that It doesn't have the potential to suddenly lose half of it's value I am much more willing to buy. Uncertainty scares buyers and sellers because their items might suddenly become worth far more or far less

 

So, do I take your statement to mean that you'd rather Jagex set prices on every tradeable item and leave it at that? Because if item prices stagnate, then they might as well do so.

 

 

 

I'm not saying that unpredictable prices are desirable, but where's the interest in participating in a stale market? Free trade would be ideal, but since we can't have that, I'd prefer the minor tamperings of price manipulators over the hoarding of items by players as a result of the fixed floor/ceiling prices implemented by Jagex.

 

No I want prices that reflect the true economy (or something close to it) not items fluctuating wildly on the whim of a clan leader

[Master_Smither]

'Better for prices to be wildly fluctuating than for them to become stagnant, I'd say.

 

 

 

Not true, uncertainty is one of the worst things for an economy. If I know when I buy item x that It doesn't have the potential to suddenly lose half of it's value I am much more willing to buy. Uncertainty scares buyers and sellers because their items might suddenly become worth far more or far less

 

So, do I take your statement to mean that you'd rather Jagex set prices on every tradeable item and leave it at that? Because if item prices stagnate, then they might as well do so.

 

 

 

I'm not saying that unpredictable prices are desirable, but where's the interest in participating in a stale market? Free trade would be ideal, but since we can't have that, I'd prefer the minor tamperings of price manipulators over the hoarding of items by players as a result of the fixed floor/ceiling prices implemented by Jagex.

 

 

 

Back before the GE prices barley changed unless of course the seasons changed and more people started playing or less people started playing. Rares would gradually rise and regular items would gradually fall nothing major like what goes on today. Spirit shields have been super rare and super junk in an hour due to a failed buyout and a dump. That never happened before the GE and the economy before the GE was nice and stable. Merchants even made money they bought items low from people desperate to sell and sold items high to deserpate buyers. That took some skill unlike price manipulation today.

 

 

 

I'd say the market was the best it ever was 05-07 everything was going good even though we had macros ;)

[magzar]

one of your shoes gets somehow torn open and you need to buy a new pair. However, when you go to the local shoestore, you find out that oprah winfrey has decided to buy out every shoe in the country and none are available from anyone but her. You go to oprah's house in the hopes that she'll see you a pair of shoes, only to find out that she's now charging $10,000 a pair for shoes. You can't afford to pay that for shoes, and haven't even the slightest inkling of how to make your own. Would you consider that to be ok?

 

 

 

 

 

It's the summer, I wear Sandles, and Nike can produce more shoes. Oprahs money supply isn't unlimited, and sooner or later her empire will crumble. In the meantime I can make do with what I got or buy a substitute.

 

 

 

magzar - you seem to gloss over the fact that the limp price changed at an odd time of the day. Jagex had to of intervened and I would be shocked if someone didn't have a GE feed that updates "live". Explain why that price changed no other major item did?

 

 

 

Considering the player pays to play runescape, I see it as his right as a customer to not have to wait simply because other players choose to manipulate the system to make extra money.

Again, from the RSOF post, the limp supply was very low, some of these guys struggled to buy any on MAX.

 

 

 

Das you talk about gathering limps from hobgoblins, what about skillers? they certainly can't gather them themselves, and farming would take longer than waiting for the merch clans to dump.

 

 

 

3 Limps from 4 patches every 15 minutes is 12 limps per 15 minutes or 48 an hour. Not bad considering one limp buys your seed price and it's a limited good.

 

 

 

If an item you use in the real world on a regular basis suddenly quintupled in price because a singular company owned them you would cry foul.

 

 

 

American Gasoline, phone service (landline) and internet often fall into the monopoly category. So do most other utilities especially in the south of america.

 

 

 

 

 

It's a flaw yes, but the economy would be very stale without it.

 

 

 

It would be interesting to know the amount of limps collected and sold.

 

 

 

Funny you mention addy ++ arrows, I found like 13 on the ground and haven't been able to sell them on min for 2+ months even though I update it daily and the price rises. Lol

 

 

 

Das, I meant if she bought out every shoe, every shoe factory, and completely controlled the shoe market all together. (btw it doesn't matter if you wear sandals, they can break too) Please take this seriously and don't just dodge questions.

 

 

 

Also, What proof do you have that Limpwurts are the only item that changed price? So far I've seen that said a lot, and not one single small-minded person has had the capability to produce a screenshot, or any other form of proof.

 

 

 

As far as people struggling to buy on max, I've already explained that, so You must not have read it. Their higher, often updated offers were in line behind the lower, older offers made. Therefore when someone dumped at min, the high offers got nothing and didn't notice an increase in the supply. It makes perfect sense if you even bothered to consider the information that Mod Mat gave us.

 

 

 

As far as what you said about monopolies, that's just stupid.

 

 

 

Gasoline: Exxon, Mobile, BP, Chevron, Texaco, etc.

 

Phone/internet: Sprint/embarq, At&T, Time Warner, Netscape, Cricket, Nextel, Altell, Etc.

 

 

 

Not even close to a monopoly I'm afraid.

[Rien]

No I want prices that reflect the true economy (or something close to it) not items fluctuating wildly on the whim of a clan leader

 

Yep, that'd certainly be nice.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, it'll never be so--too much freedom will precipitate RWT, while too little will inevitably result in Jagex setting rigid price restrictions. There is no middle ground in this conflict, and since rampant RWT is not an option (as Jagex has made clear), we'll have to make due with a flawed system. At least manipulators can't cause any permanent damage; the prices of the items they merchant will always rebound at some point. The formation of mass merchanting/price manipulating clans is a necessary evil 'scapers will have to tolerate, because Jagex can't allow free trade but will only make our current situation worse if they try to rectify the "problem" posed by these clans.

 

 

 

'Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[InkofDeath]

I'd say the market was the best it ever was 05-07 everything was going good even though we had macros ;)

 

Tbh, it was the bots that kept the market the same for so long.

 

 

 

Prices on items would have increased drastically if there weren't bots to fill our demands for the item. We saw this happen when tons of bots got banned and the prices on yews increased to 480gp and lobs increased to 420gp on numerous occasions.

 

 

 

Sure everyone was happy with how the economy was, everything produced had profit, but it was a false economy due to the bots. Without them prices would have skyrocketed from the demand that kept on increasing through the years but when unnoticed because bot use increased on a regular basis, keeping the prices down in-game.

[Rien]

Back before the GE prices barley changed unless of course the seasons changed and more people started playing or less people started playing. Rares would gradually rise and regular items would gradually fall nothing major like what goes on today. Spirit shields have been super rare and super junk in an hour due to a failed buyout and a dump. That never happened before the GE and the economy before the GE was nice and stable. Merchants even made money they bought items low from people desperate to sell and sold items high to deserpate buyers. That took some skill unlike price manipulation today.

 

 

 

I'd say the market was the best it ever was 05-07 everything was going good even though we had macros ;)

 

'Nothing like a free market, eh? :P

 

The fact that bots also provided a plentiful supply of cheap raw materials/resources for high-level players was pretty nice too--even if it did harm F2P'ers and other resourse-gatherers.

 

 

 

It's too bad that Jagex was forced into eliminating unrestricted trade, but with the banks on them about RWT and the possibility of lawsuits looming, I suppose they had no choice. :|

[forestfrolic]

Are people not capable of deciding what an item is worth to sell to them and worth buying to them?

 

 

 

Yes.

[vttuih2]

 

I just hope Jagex read Tipit more than that thread, and know that we don't all think like the people there, and aren't all whiney little brats.

 

 

Tip.it is by far worse. Compare the clan chats 'Runescape' and 'Forsakenmage', you'll quickly find out that everybody here think they know everything.

[das]

Das, I meant if she bought out every shoe, every shoe factory, and completely controlled the shoe market all together. (btw it doesn't matter if you wear sandals, they can break too) Please take this seriously and don't just dodge questions.

 

 

 

Oprahs net worth is

 

2.7 billion

 

Nike has a US$ 18.627 billion revenue and 12 billion in assets she can't afford them all, she can't afford my main one.

 

Bad example.

 

 

 

Asides, I can always ebay a pair of shoes, or maybe I hoard shoes ( i actually have like 6-8 pairs of never worn shoes under my bed)

 

 

 

Sure oprah could go into it with other friends, but then thats risky, one friend could undersell the other, and to buy every shoe/boot/sandle manufacture would be VERY expensive. The distribution of wealth is quite different in real life than it is in runescape. while indivduals are rich, companies are ungodly rich.

 

 

 

Also, What proof do you have that Limpwurts are the only item that changed price? So far I've seen that said a lot, and not one single small-minded person has had the capability to produce a screenshot, or any other form of proof.

 

 

 

What proof do you have that it wasn't? You can't prove it wrong either, but many many voices say the limps were changed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as people struggling to buy on max, I've already explained that, so You must not have read it. Their higher, often updated offers were in line behind the lower, older offers made. Therefore when someone dumped at min, the high offers got nothing and didn't notice an increase in the supply. It makes perfect sense if you even bothered to consider the information that Mod Mat gave us.

 

 

 

If the GE honestly works like that, It's a flawed system beyond belief , Money is purchasing power. Mod Mat flirts around the issue but never gives a straight answer. Give me a straight answer and not "what if " for me to consider.

 

 

 

 

 

Gasoline: Exxon, Mobile, BP, Chevron, Texaco, etc.

 

 

 

Yeah, and here almost every one of those charges 2.53-2.56 in gas. 3 cent difference based on location perhaps. Have you ever seen one of those companies undercut the other by 20 cents a gallon? 50? a whole dollar?

 

 

 

Phone/internet: Sprint/embarq, At&T, Time Warner, Netscape, Cricket, Nextel, Altell, Etc.

 

 

 

In many parts of the southeast, Verizon (Frontier now) Owns EVERY phoneline in the area. Sure you can get dsl where I live from 3 now 2 different companies, but those companies just resale it through verizon. I know they do, because I work with one and we bought out the other because they couldn't afford to pay verizon. Same applies to most of the southeast USA. Verizon/AT&T and bell south just wholesale the lines to other companies to resale their service.

[acenator]

No I want prices that reflect the true economy (or something close to it) not items fluctuating wildly on the whim of a clan leader

 

Yep, that'd certainly be nice.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, it'll never be so--too much freedom will precipitate RWT, while too little will inevitably result in Jagex setting rigid price restrictions. There is no middle ground in this conflict, and since rampant RWT is not an option (as Jagex has made clear), we'll have to make due with a flawed system. At least manipulators can't cause any permanent damage; the prices of the items they merchant will always rebound at some point. The formation of mass merchanting/price manipulating clans is a necessary evil 'scapers will have to tolerate, because Jagex can't allow free trade but will only make our current situation worse if they try to rectify the "problem" posed by these clans.

 

 

 

'Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

Jagex could easily end the influence of merchant clans by introducing a rule that organizing in game to buy out a product was a bannable offense. No messing with the GE or any game mechanics that restrict trade; just add the rule and start handing out bans and the clans will disband.

[forestfrolic]

 

I just hope Jagex read Tipit more than that thread, and know that we don't all think like the people there, and aren't all whiney little brats.

 

 

Tip.it is by far worse. Compare the clan chats 'Runescape' and 'Forsakenmage', you'll quickly find out that everybody here think they know everything.

 

 

 

What group uses 'Runescape' clanchat?

[das]

 

Jagex could easily end the influence of merchant clans by introducing a rule that organizing in game to buy out a product was a bannable offense. No messing with the GE or any game mechanics that restrict trade; just add the rule and start handing out bans and the clans will disband.

 

 

 

Why haven't they done that already?

 

 

 

But if they do

 

How can they prove you are with someone and not a solo merchant?