15th July 2009 - PvP Changes

[Everyonedies]

I just wonder how many pures are now kicking themselves in the [wagon] for get 25 prayer for protect item... #-o

 

Not me all my pures have 1 prayer this is so great for me i always lost everything anyway on my pures but now so do the people i pile lol...

[Leoo]

Why does Jagex hate pking?

 

 

 

Well if it didn't get abused soo much.. :ugeek:

[Miskatake]

I'd just like to go Christian Bale Rant on every damn RWTer, 26ker, 1/3-itemer, PJer, and macroer.

 

 

 

Now, the question Christian Bale asked:

 

 

 

What the [bleep] were you doing? (a question for the idiots I stated above)

[Bananamatic]

Jesus, good job Jagex.

 

 

 

Judging from the ingame screenies where every dude pks skulled in full dragon with a DFH, they obviously don't know what does money mean to players and that no one can pull 80m straight out of their [wagon].

 

 

 

NO ONE is going to risk more than 300k when the drops are RANDOM, hell even the combat system is totally random.

 

One guy might have rune with a dds and the other AGS with bandos armor, but the dds guy might get complete hax specs and make the other guy lose 1 month of working his [wagon] off, which would atleast annoy somebody IRL, but 90% of people would get smashed if they lost a GS.

 

 

 

 

 

In a combat system where "skill" is nonexistant as long as you can spam click sharks, no one is going to risk more than 300-700k.

 

People did skull dharok fights because they got the dharok sets, but now you get what.....a load of junk.

 

 

 

No way that pjing will be stopped in any way as pjers are nearly invincible anyways(10 brews, 3 different flavors of teleporting, constant prayer) and the risking player will obviously be the #1 target.

 

Quote from forums:

 

"Haha.

 

Since this update, I've been rushing more than ever.

 

Throw on some black d hide and teleport, bring a skill cape, and BINGO! 100% EP in a matter of 2 hours.

 

Sip some Sara Brew, super set, throw on that melee pray, and off I go to Claw rush. :)

 

And now, if I kill a whipper, you're damn right, I get that whip. <3"

 

 

 

75king will continue, EPing isn't any harder as you can teleport and pkers won't risk more than d scims.

 

 

 

Fun how the forums are under a total crapflood of complaints(99% of the threads are about protect item), yet a jmod comes out, says "It's better like this because we think so" and case closed.

[Miskatake]

Jesus, good job Jagex.

 

 

 

Judging from the ingame screenies where every dude pks skulled in full dragon with a DFH, they obviously don't know what does money mean to players and that no one can pull 80m straight out of their [wagon].

 

 

 

NO ONE is going to risk more than 300k when the drops are RANDOM, hell even the combat system is totally random.

 

One guy might have rune with a dds and the other AGS with bandos armor, but the dds guy might get complete hax specs and make the other guy lose 1 month of working his [wagon] off, which would atleast annoy somebody IRL, but 90% of people would get smashed if they lost a GS.

 

 

 

 

 

In a combat system where "skill" is nonexistant as long as you can spam click sharks, no one is going to risk more than 300-700k.

 

People did skull dharok fights because they got the dharok sets, but now you get what.....a load of junk.

 

 

 

No way that pjing will be stopped in any way as pjers are nearly invincible anyways(10 brews, 3 different flavors of teleporting, constant prayer) and the risking player will obviously be the #1 target.

 

Quote from forums:

 

"Haha.

 

Since this update, I've been rushing more than ever.

 

Throw on some black d hide and teleport, bring a skill cape, and BINGO! 100% EP in a matter of 2 hours.

 

Sip some Sara Brew, super set, throw on that melee pray, and off I go to Claw rush. :)

 

And now, if I kill a whipper, you're damn right, I get that whip. <3"

 

 

 

75king will continue, EPing isn't any harder as you can teleport and pkers won't risk more than d scims.

 

 

 

Fun how the forums are under a total crapflood of complaints(99% of the threads are about protect item), yet a jmod comes out, says "It's better like this because we think so" and case closed.

 

 

 

I agree with you man..why can't they just make it so that you cannot be attacked in 20 seconds if the previous attacker stopped attacking. This would kill PJing instantly..

 

 

 

but of course, Jagex has to make it so that more players suffer for these [bleep]ed up updates

[Gribbzldinho]

 

Sure it is.

 

Just like Castle Wars is.

 

Just like Mobilizing Armies.

 

Its all Player versus Player.

 

 

 

Its just not the honorable mugging your idealizing.

 

I 1 item for fun, I don't 1 item to make money.

 

Losing a dagger or seercull means nothing to me.

 

Seeing somebody cry and log, thats entertainment. :thumbup:

 

Just like dropping cades all over the entrance of your respawn room in castle wars. :lol:

 

 

 

So basically you're just a prat and a troll. Whatever floats your boat I guess :lol:

[Dragonlordjl]

Jagex had EVERY opportunity to please the PKers. But they had to go and do things their own [bleep]ed-up way, instead of listening to some of the suggestions people gave them. They have no concept of what the game needs nor how the community operates. But of course, how would they? Few of them have played from level 3 up past level 100 and I bet that none of the developers have trained a character past 120 combat with 1800+ total.

[demby123]

Jagex had EVERY opportunity to please the PKers. But they had to go and do things their own [bleep]-up way, instead of listening to some of the suggestions people gave them. They have no concept of what the game needs nor how the community operates. But of course, how would they? Few of them have played from level 3 up past level 100 and I bet that none of the developers have trained a character past 120 combat with 1800+ total.

 

I know all the j mods have accounts,but i've never heard of a mod with a pure. Sometimes I have the strangest feeling that they've never pked against other RS pkers on a regular account with no mod "powers".

[3hitm4g3u]

 

but of course, Jagex has to make it so that more players suffer for these [bleep] up updates

 

 

 

I think they actually want people to 26k (Well...76k now :roll: ) while cutting down the number of people pking.

[Racheya]

Jagex had EVERY opportunity to please the PKers. But they had to go and do things their own [bleep]-up way, instead of listening to some of the suggestions people gave them. They have no concept of what the game needs nor how the community operates. But of course, how would they? Few of them have played from level 3 up past level 100 and I bet that none of the developers have trained a character past 120 combat with 1800+ total.

 

I know all the j mods have accounts,but i've never heard of a mod with a pure. Sometimes I have the strangest feeling that they've never pked against other RS pkers on a regular account with no mod "powers".

 

Y'know I reckon they have done.

 

 

 

I remember reading that mods can't use their Jmod account outside of Jagex so if they were to play at home then they would have to.

[demby123]

Jagex had EVERY opportunity to please the PKers. But they had to go and do things their own [bleep]-up way, instead of listening to some of the suggestions people gave them. They have no concept of what the game needs nor how the community operates. But of course, how would they? Few of them have played from level 3 up past level 100 and I bet that none of the developers have trained a character past 120 combat with 1800+ total.

 

I know all the j mods have accounts,but i've never heard of a mod with a pure. Sometimes I have the strangest feeling that they've never pked against other RS pkers on a regular account with no mod "powers".

 

I remember reading that mods can't use their Jmod account outside of Jagex so if they were to play at home then they would have to.

 

But I wonder which Jmod has 1 purely combat oriented account. :-k

[howbadisbad]

Jagex had EVERY opportunity to please the PKers. But they had to go and do things their own [bleep]-up way, instead of listening to some of the suggestions people gave them. They have no concept of what the game needs nor how the community operates. But of course, how would they? Few of them have played from level 3 up past level 100 and I bet that none of the developers have trained a character past 120 combat with 1800+ total.

 

I know all the j mods have accounts,but i've never heard of a mod with a pure. Sometimes I have the strangest feeling that they've never pked against other RS pkers on a regular account with no mod "powers".

 

Y'know I reckon they have done.

 

 

 

I remember reading that mods can't use their Jmod account outside of Jagex so if they were to play at home then they would have to.

 

 

 

And if any mods were pkers they would realize that this update sucks.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Alright, after letting the flames of immaturity die down a bit, my take on this update is pretty straightforward: best update to PvP/PKing in a long while. I'll give you three reasons why.

 

 

 

1) Risk versus Reward. It's finally risky now if you want to PK in Bandos or want to use a set of Dragon Claws to quick-pwn someone. For a long, long time, n-itemers could really PK with near impunity, so long as they didn't run out of prayer and/or didn't skull. This has been a major complaint since the PK days of old, and it's one of the reasons I got out of the PK scene. It's also riskier now if you want to gain 2 or 4 times more experience - what, you thought that Brawlers were meant to be safe to use?

 

 

 

2) This one dates back to a friend of mine that PKs a lot - "There's no such thing as safing on Members, you know" With players no longer able to protect their whips, Godswords, or all other manner of weapons that hit over 33, the potential for getting KOed while loitering in the Wilderness out of the clear blue is significantly reduced. This means fairer fights - not everyone can afford claws or Godswords - and also more interesting battles.

 

 

 

3) This update has the potential to drain off some of the cash brought in by inflation, 26K or otherwise. Now that you have the chance to lose stuff, gear such as food, potions, ammunition/runes, and armor can finally normalize themselves. What I'm hoping is that with this update, players that previously exclusively PKed/26Ked for their funding will have no other alternative but to gather food for themselves, and harvest herbs once again, either at Abberants or Chaos Druids, et al.

 

 

 

I don't think that this fixed the 26K trick, but it did provide some long standing issues that needed to be resolved in PKing. Now if we can just make it so that if you teleport out, you lose all of your EP, and if we beef Mage up a bit, PKing will actually become a pleasant pastime.

[Dexek]

Alright, after letting the flames of immaturity die down a bit, my take on this update is pretty straightforward: best update to PvP/PKing in a long while. I'll give you three reasons why.

 

 

 

1) Risk versus Reward. It's finally risky now if you want to PK in Bandos or want to use a set of Dragon Claws to quick-pwn someone. For a long, long time, n-itemers could really PK with near impunity, so long as they didn't run out of prayer and/or didn't skull. This has been a major complaint since the PK days of old, and it's one of the reasons I got out of the PK scene. It's also riskier now if you want to gain 2 or 4 times more experience - what, you thought that Brawlers were meant to be safe to use?

 

 

 

2) This one dates back to a friend of mine that PKs a lot - "There's no such thing as safing on Members, you know" With players no longer able to protect their whips, Godswords, or all other manner of weapons that hit over 33, the potential for getting KOed while loitering in the Wilderness out of the clear blue is significantly reduced. This means fairer fights - not everyone can afford claws or Godswords - and also more interesting battles.

 

 

 

3) This update has the potential to drain off some of the cash brought in by inflation, 26K or otherwise. Now that you have the chance to lose stuff, gear such as food, potions, ammunition/runes, and armor can finally normalize themselves. What I'm hoping is that with this update, players that previously exclusively PKed/26Ked for their funding will have no other alternative but to gather food for themselves, and harvest herbs once again, either at Abberants or Chaos Druids, et al.

 

 

 

I don't think that this fixed the 26K trick, but it did provide some long standing issues that needed to be resolved in PKing. Now if we can just make it so that if you teleport out, you lose all of your EP, and if we beef Mage up a bit, PKing will actually become a pleasant pastime.

 

 

 

Agreed. Actually, that teleport idea is really good. I personally thought it was a step backwards when they introduced the teleporting to Bounty as it was. If someone could telly with a glory, games necklace, or ring of life before I killed them, then they seemingly earned the right to teleport. It was also nice to not have to worry about teleportation so I could stick to lunar spells, and not have to worry about spellbook swap. :lol:

[demby123]

Reasons Behind the PvP Changes

 

QFC:15-16-126-59188395

 

Sometimes I hate the concept of change. :?

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Reasons Behind the PvP Changes

 

QFC:15-16-126-59188395

 

Sometimes I hate the concept of change. :?

 

But change is inevitable. You know, except from vending machines. But still, change is inevitable.

[khandajatt]

Reasons Behind the PvP Changes

 

QFC:15-16-126-59188395

 

Sometimes I hate the concept of change. :?

 

But change is inevitable. You know, except from vending machines. But still, change is inevitable.

 

vending machine also get recaleberated (i think i spelled it wrong) when its time to change the prices

[Bananamatic]

[hide=long quote]

Alright, after letting the flames of immaturity die down a bit, my take on this update is pretty straightforward: best update to PvP/PKing in a long while. I'll give you three reasons why.

 

 

 

1) Risk versus Reward. It's finally risky now if you want to PK in Bandos or want to use a set of Dragon Claws to quick-pwn someone. For a long, long time, n-itemers could really PK with near impunity, so long as they didn't run out of prayer and/or didn't skull. This has been a major complaint since the PK days of old, and it's one of the reasons I got out of the PK scene. It's also riskier now if you want to gain 2 or 4 times more experience - what, you thought that Brawlers were meant to be safe to use?

 

 

 

2) This one dates back to a friend of mine that PKs a lot - "There's no such thing as safing on Members, you know" With players no longer able to protect their whips, Godswords, or all other manner of weapons that hit over 33, the potential for getting KOed while loitering in the Wilderness out of the clear blue is significantly reduced. This means fairer fights - not everyone can afford claws or Godswords - and also more interesting battles.

 

 

 

3) This update has the potential to drain off some of the cash brought in by inflation, 26K or otherwise. Now that you have the chance to lose stuff, gear such as food, potions, ammunition/runes, and armor can finally normalize themselves. What I'm hoping is that with this update, players that previously exclusively PKed/26Ked for their funding will have no other alternative but to gather food for themselves, and harvest herbs once again, either at Abberants or Chaos Druids, et al.

 

 

 

I don't think that this fixed the 26K trick, but it did provide some long standing issues that needed to be resolved in PKing. Now if we can just make it so that if you teleport out, you lose all of your EP, and if we beef Mage up a bit, PKing will actually become a pleasant pastime.

[/hide]

 

 

 

1) More risk......same rewards, along with being the #1 target. Every pjer would love to kill you. You get barraged all the time.

 

And once you die, all the gain from pks is gone.

 

D scim = #1 weapon.

 

 

 

2) Pjers don't give a rat's [wagon] about Protect Item. They will still rush, and they enjoy it even more now, as one of them stated on forums.

 

The only difference is that while you use a crap weapon, they use a better one and don't care.

 

 

 

3) That's cool.

 

 

 

Just give us back the goddamn Protect Item and we'll be happy. It doesn't allow RWT, it won't steal credit cards.

 

 

 

75king will continue, bolting is there, pjing is there, but real pking took the biggest hit.

 

It's like they have dropped a nuke but completely missed it.

[demby123]

Reasons Behind the PvP Changes

 

QFC:15-16-126-59188395

 

Sometimes I hate the concept of change. :?

 

But change is inevitable. You know, except from vending machines. But still, change is inevitable.

 

I know,I know , its the uncertainty before it happens that kills me.

 

Human instinct i guess.

[demby123]

The two best thigs about this,however,are:

 

1.More welfare pkers,less overpowered KO weapons.This might be good for mages,as the only thing ahrims/zury can stop is a dds.

 

2.They're working on a fix to the "in combat/out of combat" mechanic ,hopefully making farcasting a viable option when pking.

[Michaael]

15-16-126-59188395

 

 

 

That thread is probably the most concentrated amount of epic win I've ever seen on the RSOF

[Zaaps1]

Reasons Behind the PvP Changes

 

QFC:15-16-126-59188395

 

Sometimes I hate the concept of change. :?

 

 

 

For all of you too lazy to go there an open it:

 

 

 

[hide=]

Hey,

 

 

 

As you are probably aware, we have recently made some rather drastic changes to what players risk on PvP Worlds. In case you are one of the people who dont know, here is what we changed:

 

On PvP Worlds, you will always be skulled and cannot use the Protect Item prayer.

 

 

 

We launched this update without much explanation as to why we were making the changes. The reason for this is because we knew how big they were and we didnt want to dilute it behind a wall of reasons and excuses, but we just wanted to make sure to keep it as clear and to-the-point as possible, and the players who would be affected by this would know the immediate consequences without us explaining it to them. But now that a bit of time has passed, we feel that it is appropriate to share the reasons behind it.

 

 

 

We initially sat down to discuss the 26k issue and what we could do about that. Safe to say, this meeting ended up covering a much broader area, but I will try to take it step by step. When we first created PvP Worlds, we had a lot of different ideas on how we could distribute loot for kills and what had to be lost by the victim in order for the PKer to claim a reward. During most of development, the value that had to be lost was sitting at 75k, but as the release date approached, we changed it to 25k to keep it in line with the free-to-play game, even though the rewards are a lot greater in members world. So, the first and easiest step to keep the kill-swapping down was to simply put the value back up to 75k and also make sure that this value in no way affected the so called death pot (Ill talk more about that soon).

 

 

 

However, we, as well as you, know that this wont put it to a complete stop, and we have more changes planned for the future. These require a bit more work, so it will take a little while, but it shouldnt have an as big of an impact on the PvP scene as a whole as the most recent changes have had. We will let you know about the details in due time.

 

 

 

One of the reasons why it was so easy to do the 26k trick (besides the obviously low cost) was that it was also very easy to generate earning potential relatively risk free, due to the skulling mechanics and the Protect Item prayer. This, however, is an issue that stretches further than just 26k-ing. Lots of people used the Protect Item prayer just so that they could continuously rush into combat with a single weapon and never risk losing anything (so called one-itemers). This has been the case for as long as PKing has been around, but now they can gain greater rewards for no risk and the weapons players have access to have increased a bit in power from rune 2-handed swords in Classic and dragon daggers in the first few years of RuneScape 2, to godswords and dragon claws. This means that it has gotten increasingly easier to have a very high combat potential with minimal risk.

 

 

 

This is where the Protect Item prayer comes in. Our main reason to disable this on PvP Worlds was to make it slightly harder to gain earning potential risk free, particularly via one-iteming, and to make sure the risk versus reward balance was stabilized. We of course knew that this would have consequences beyond these two groups of people, but we didnt necessarily consider them all to be negative (although were not denying that some certainly are).

 

 

 

The way weapons have increased in power throughout the years has resulted in a big amount of a players combat efficiency to be tied to a single item, which is what made one-iteming so easy, and the cheap Protect Item prayer has become the massively powerful tool that allows this. We do appreciate that there are a lot of people who use these valuable items while still risking wealth in form of armour and jewellery. However, two people in full rune armour can both be risking the same amount of wealth while the items they keep protected vary massively in power (e.g. a dragon scimitar compared to an Armadyl godsword). The prayer simply allows players to bypass a large portion of what is supposed to be a risk vs reward system.

 

 

 

We dont necessarily feel it is a bad thing that people get a bit (or a lot) more careful about when they choose to use these expensive and powerful items. Now, you might argue that the players in question have deserved this bonus when they earned the money to buy it, but that doesnt change the fact that they can still bypass the risk. Secondly, godswords and dragon claws are extremely powerful due to their high hits, and, as far as PvP goes, this has put a big dent in the combat triangle (which wasnt all that dent free to begin with). More specifically, it has caused a major issue for mages, who, due to their lack of armour, have become even easier targets from a class they are supposed to be strong against. We feel that disabling the Protect Item prayer has evened out the combat triangle a bit, which we consider a good thing. People can still use these powerful weapons, but now they have to do so with the risks that follow.

 

 

 

A bigger issue than people not daring to risk their dragon claws and godswords is the abyssal whip. This is a fairly powerful weapon as far as damage over time goes, but lacks the massive hits of more expensive items. However, it is still expensive enough to make some PKers afraid of risking them under the new system. To these people, I would like to repeat something that is briefly mentioned on the Knowledge Base page, which we simply refer to as the death pot. When you die, part of the wealth you have lost beyond the initial 75k (or 25k on a free-to-play world) is added to a separate pot which is used along with your earning potential to generate drops. So if you do risk a whip and lose it, a big part of its value will be saved away for your future drops. In the long run, assuming you get some kills, you will therefore be making this value back. However, it is worth pointing out that the amount of lost wealth that can be transferred to the death pot at any one time is capped, so losing a massive stack of junk items or a godsword would not generate as big of a percentage back into the death pot as less valuable items would, and noted items dont add anything at all. I dont want to give out any exact numbers, but I can at least confirm that a whip will be quite heavily compensated for (although obviously not by its full value!).

 

 

 

Another topic that has been floating around along with these changes are the so called PJers (pile jumpers, player jumpers, etc.). Were hoping that one side effect of the disabling of Protect Item will reduce the amount of players who choose to resort to this method, as waiting around in a dangerous area can now leave them as quite an appealing target for other players. We certainly dont think it will stop it, as even before the update they were quite often risking the valuable weapons other players are now concerned about. However, we do have plans to make 1-versus-1 combat a bit more stable and harder to interrupt, and we hope to have these changes with you in the near future (I will be working on them this week).

 

 

 

Finally, Id like to point out that we will be keeping a very close eye on how the recent update has affected the PvP scene, and we are definitely open to tweaking it if necessary.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Mod Benny

[/hide]

 

 

 

Summary:

 

 

 

The purpose of the PvP update was to:

 

 

 

-Stop 26k'ers

 

-Stop Pj'ers

 

-Stop one-itemers

 

-Even out the combat triangle

 

-Better enact the risk v. reward system

 

-This is only the first of many updates to combat 26k'ers

 

-Reminding you that if you lose an item, it gets added to your "death pot", and you are more likely to regain that value

 

 

 

That last point is one many of us forget. I'll quote it again for emphasis:

 

 

 

I would like to repeat something that is briefly mentioned on the Knowledge Base page, which we simply refer to as the death pot. When you die, part of the wealth you have lost beyond the initial 75k (or 25k on a free-to-play world) is added to a separate pot which is used along with your earning potential to generate drops. So if you do risk a whip and lose it, a big part of its value will be saved away for your future drops. In the long run, assuming you get some kills, you will therefore be making this value back

[Master_Smither]

Another hit to dragon claws :lol:

[demby123]

" However, we do have plans to make 1-versus-1 combat a bit more stable and harder to interrupt, and we hope to have these changes with you in the near future (I will be working on them this week)."

 

I'm wondering how they will pull this off properly,farcasting adds a bit of difficulty to the solution because a timer wont be useful to those who stay out of combat longer than 10,20 seconds.

 

Mabyee DEALING damage will count you in combat just as TAKING damage does? :idea: :pray:

[wioneo]

However, it is worth pointing out that the amount of lost wealth that can be transferred to the death pot at any one time is capped, so losing a massive stack of junk items or a godsword would not generate as big of a percentage back into the death pot as less valuable items would, and noted items dont add anything at all. I dont want to give out any exact numbers, but I can at least confirm that a whip will be quite heavily compensated for (although obviously not by its full value!).

 

 

 

 

I don't see how decreasing the possibilty to recoup losses is beneficial. If you risk more, you are rewarded less, under this system.

 

 

 

However, we do have plans to make 1-versus-1 combat a bit more stable and harder to interrupt, and we hope to have these changes with you in the near future (I will be working on them this week).

 

 

 

Finally, Id like to point out that we will be keeping a very close eye on how the recent update has affected the PvP scene, and we are definitely open to tweaking it if necessary

 

 

 

Interesting....