17th November 2009 - Potions, Spells and Runes

[Kalafai]

Bug? or is that just the cover story?

[Aneron]

I don't think they'd claim to be fixing it as we speak if it were the cover story of a conspiracy they intend to make permanent

[Aneron]

The point of this update was to lower the price of Natures and Astrals which were absurd overpriced Natures making 400gp per essence and Astrals 300gp per essence which means they can both make over 1000k an hour easily while Deathes and Blood are only 200gp per essence and take more time per run and only come out at about 500k an hour and may make even less xp too.

 

The extreme magic potion was updated because it was overpowered at 40% more damage just from 1 dose while staffs only get 10% now that made it give boosts instead lets you use them for quests etc. and lowers like other extremes it also increases your accuracy and makes the wolpertinger a better summon.

 

you're damn right it makes the wolpertinger a better summon. in fact, it makes the magic potions absolutely useless. I did a large amount of barrows with the pre-nerf magic potions. I was using claws of guthix with a void mace... max hit of 46. My average hit was 17. That's about the same as someone veraccing barrows, and I think meleers use less than 25k worth of prayer potions/chest, which is the cost of the runes/chest for me. People freak out when they see 40%, but they don't take into account magic's extremely low max hits, and low average hits. What in god's name is wrong with hitting 46s after spending 100m+ on herblore when melee can hit that high easily with a dds or whip?

 

I also would disagree that astral runes are overpriced... the reason isn't scarcity (82 runecrafting is hardly hard to get), but simply high demand from pkers. There's nothing unnatural about it, they are just behaving according to the law of supply and demand. It's not like they were being manipulated. Pking has driven up the prices of sharks, and herblore has driven up the price of herbs. Does that mean that from now on you should catch sharks at twice the previous rate, or get twice as many herbs/farming patch?

[strilmus]

I find the whole thing a mess. People say magic is too powerful if you do this but not worth the money if you do that. Why can't you just make up your minds or something?

[Aneron]

I find the whole thing a mess. People say magic is too powerful if you do this but not worth the money if you do that. Why can't you just make up your minds or something?

 

different people though. asking a heterogeneous group of people to collectively make up its mind and not change it has been known to cause issues in the past =p

[Silver_Corner]

you're damn right it makes the wolpertinger a better summon. in fact, it makes the magic potions absolutely useless. I did a large amount of barrows with the pre-nerf magic potions. I was using claws of guthix with a void mace... max hit of 46. My average hit was 17. That's about the same as someone veraccing barrows, and I think meleers use less than 25k worth of prayer potions/chest, which is the cost of the runes/chest for me. People freak out when they see 40%, but they don't take into account magic's extremely low max hits, and low average hits. What in god's name is wrong with hitting 46s after spending 100m+ on herblore when melee can hit that high easily with a dds or whip?

 

3 Points I want to make (Not all directed to anyone in particular)

 

1) I would like to see the Extreme Mage more like a +10 level boost, but I also don't see a problem with it where it is now. The reason I don't see any problems with it is because 92 summon is just as hard to get as 92 herblore. So on my point of view, you can either get 92 herb, or 92 summon, for the same effects. But the potions always have more benefits because:

a ) You won't use a Wolp when boss hunting, as a Uni would be preferred in most cases.

b ) You can't use a Wolp in some areas (such as barrows) since Familiars are banned there.

c ) In pvp using a Wolp would raise your combat level

 

92 Heblore has none of those restrictions (except c which a normal mage pot covers) so it is abvously more valuable. So your 100m isn't wasted, as it does still give some benefit.

 

2) I feel like the max hit was lowered on purpose. With hits already in the 45-49's with the old potions, it left very little room for improvement on maximum hits. All spells would have to be around or below the 30 range to stop from being to powerful, and we would end up with spells like God spells, which are practically the same but small effects difference.

 

By lowering the max hit, this gives them improvement area in perhaps prayers that increase magic max hits, or other spells which deal more damage. Either way, PvP max hits for magic was increased, while everyone else's max was decreased, so I feel like it is a fair trade-off. The only other modification would be to make extreme mage +10 levels for that 30% boost (40% with staff). Jagex has said in the past, sometimes their actions don't make much sense since we cannot see the full picture. I'm sure whatever reason their acting on, is for another thing their adding/changing down the road.

 

3) Whats so bad about the essence update? People keep saying its horrible, dosen't make sense, and were using examples like dealing partial damage to slayer monsters. This update is not like that at all.

 

Think of the Runecrafting skill as Woodcutting.

 

In Runecrafting you cant make a nature rune before level 44.

In Woodcutting you cant cut a magic log until 75.

 

This update is not changing the above statements at all. Its not letting people make things they shouldn't normally be able to make.

 

In Woodcutting, Every level above 75 Lets you produce logs faster.

(as of today) In Rune crafting, every level above 44 lets you produce more nature runes (producing them faster)

 

If you think about it that way, It actually does make sense for this update. Its not letting you cut magic logs before level 75, or natures before 44. Its giving you higher productivity for every single level you earn, rather than getting 47 levels until you see any improvement. The way I see it it didn't kill runecrafting at all, but made it more useful. Now every level you earn matters, not just 47 levels down the road. Getting 91 is still a goal, if you want 2x consistently, but saying otherwise is like saying after 75 you should get magic logs the same speed until 99. Or catch sharks the same speed from 76 to 99.

[firebird308]

Reading the comments from all the people who craft Nats for money makes me wonder if I'm the only one who crafts them for my own personal use instead of selling them. :blink:

 

At any rate, this update certainly makes me happy since I'll now get more for my efforts when I make my occasional trips to work on my rc level/gain needed runes.

[Zepheras]

you're damn right it makes the wolpertinger a better summon. in fact, it makes the magic potions absolutely useless. I did a large amount of barrows with the pre-nerf magic potions. I was using claws of guthix with a void mace... max hit of 46. My average hit was 17. That's about the same as someone veraccing barrows, and I think meleers use less than 25k worth of prayer potions/chest, which is the cost of the runes/chest for me. People freak out when they see 40%, but they don't take into account magic's extremely low max hits, and low average hits. What in god's name is wrong with hitting 46s after spending 100m+ on herblore when melee can hit that high easily with a dds or whip?

 

3 Points I want to make (Not all directed to anyone in particular)

 

1) I would like to see the Extreme Mage more like a +10 level boost, but I also don't see a problem with it where it is now. The reason I don't see any problems with it is because 92 summon is just as hard to get as 92 herblore. So on my point of view, you can either get 92 herb, or 92 summon, for the same effects. But the potions always have more benefits because:

a ) You won't use a Wolp when boss hunting, as a Uni would be preferred in most cases.

b ) You can't use a Wolp in some areas (such as barrows) since Familiars are banned there.

c ) In pvp using a Wolp would raise your combat level

 

92 Heblore has none of those restrictions (except c which a normal mage pot covers) so it is abvously more valuable. So your 100m isn't wasted, as it does still give some benefit.

 

2) I feel like the max hit was lowered on purpose. With hits already in the 45-49's with the old potions, it left very little room for improvement on maximum hits. All spells would have to be around or below the 30 range to stop from being to powerful, and we would end up with spells like God spells, which are practically the same but small effects difference.

 

By lowering the max hit, this gives them improvement area in perhaps prayers that increase magic max hits, or other spells which deal more damage. Either way, PvP max hits for magic was increased, while everyone else's max was decreased, so I feel like it is a fair trade-off. The only other modification would be to make extreme mage +10 levels for that 30% boost (40% with staff). Jagex has said in the past, sometimes their actions don't make much sense since we cannot see the full picture. I'm sure whatever reason their acting on, is for another thing their adding/changing down the road.

 

3) Whats so bad about the essence update? People keep saying its horrible, dosen't make sense, and were using examples like dealing partial damage to slayer monsters. This update is not like that at all.

 

Think of the Runecrafting skill as Woodcutting.

 

In Runecrafting you cant make a nature rune before level 44.

In Woodcutting you cant cut a magic log until 75.

 

This update is not changing the above statements at all. Its not letting people make things they shouldn't normally be able to make.

 

In Woodcutting, Every level above 75 Lets you produce logs faster.

(as of today) In Rune crafting, every level above 44 lets you produce more nature runes (producing them faster)

 

If you think about it that way, It actually does make sense for this update. Its not letting you cut magic logs before level 75, or natures before 44. Its giving you higher productivity for every single level you earn, rather than getting 47 levels until you see any improvement. The way I see it it didn't kill runecrafting at all, but made it more useful. Now every level you earn matters, not just 47 levels down the road. Getting 91 is still a goal, if you want 2x consistently, but saying otherwise is like saying after 75 you should get magic logs the same speed until 99. Or catch sharks the same speed from 76 to 99.

 

 

+10 magic level is like a plus 30% damage. During the herblore update I already find the extreme magic potion overpowered. Sure, magic isn't hitting as hard as melee or range, but 40 PERCENT damage? That's like preventing yourself from introducing higher hitting spells altogether, and making magic over-dependant on potions for damage. Extreme strength adds at most a constant 7 damage, while extreme magic has a potential of being too helpful. I would rather they spread the boost on various magical equipment, like strength bonuses.

[nerdboyxxx]

Hell yeah, more magic updates. Now they just have to update F2P magic :P

[Sir_Squab]

I like the update on rc because they made it more profitable for lower lvls and I really hate that skill. I can understand the frustration of high rc'ers though, it is not cool to see your hard work go partly down the drain. (same goes for wc capes before ivy)

 

But the mage update...

1) They nerved extreme magic potions. Hard.

-> why? I was training herblore atm and you took away 90% of my incentive.

2) They made some new spells with the highest requiring 95 magic, maximum damage of 28. All good, but the god spells hit 30 and require 80 magic (60 for the spell, 80 for charge)

-> a huge gap between 80 and 95 magic, yet no higher hits?

 

Personally, I was thinking of ice barrage at 94, hitting 30 along with freezing and multi target ability. But yes, at 80 you can hit 30 with the normal spellbook.

 

The only kind of advantage of these spells is that they have cheaper rune costs. EDIT: Not really.

 

Still, I long ago decided that battlemaging on monsters was almost entirely cost-prohibitive. At least on 90% of monsters. And magic doesn't hit that high to begin with, compared to melee and range. well, depending on the spell, but it's still really cost prohibitive.

 

Battlemaging, except for some bursting/barraging for expensive exp, and pvp, is dead. I want a change that allows you to kill monster with magic without it being extremely cost prohibitive.

 

Maybe a slayer or monster only spell that hits high with mind or chaos runes? Or (controversial idea) have all runes use the same multiple rune per essence levels that air runes do.

 

Just some ideas. Pros and Cons to them all.

 

Oh, and maybe give give wave spells to F2P....but AFTER they make combat magic effective in PVM.

[Sir_Squab]

Well, I won't call it an Upgrayedd, but I'm still underwhelmed. It is another upgrade though. This month, as in past four weaks, has been rather thin as far as updates go. Other people might not, but I'd call it a dry spell.

Wow, that's a surprise.

 

What's a suprise? Me calling out another skint update? I'm not trying to bust on it. I'm calling a spade a spade. Sure it's nothing awful, but it's a fairly minor update. Just more tweaks and patches really. And yeah, it's been four weeks of low end updates. Am I the only one who thinks this? I'll put it like this as far as the update. If you look at things on a monthly basis, and I do because that is how we pay for the game, that would be four weeks for updates. If you look at the past four weeks and grade these updates, it's been a very, very weak month on that level. I think of anyone who may have gotten their members for these four update weeks and that's where I tend to look at it and feel bad for people who have payed for membeship. This also is only concerning updates made to the game, not the game already in.

 

Why are you always on me about this? Should I start criticizing you every time you mark out for some crappy update? How about you do me a favor? Put me on ignore and I'll put you on ignore so we can go ahead and not have to associate with each other anymore?

 

If you've just become a new member this month, you still have years of membership stuff to catch up on. Something most people who say that forget. However, I do agree, it's been a pretty dry month.

 

You can use void mace with claws of guthix to get the 10% bonus.

I've frequently hit 33 on rex with claws of guthix

 

Forgot about the mace... But my point stands valid, you still have to use a god-based staff (mace in this case) and the power is simply borrowed from gods, not harnessed by yourself, thus making the level req. lower.

 

Oh, OK, in that case let's make a quest where the reward is being spiritually linked to the Stone of Jas, giving you a level 70 spell that lets you hit 60s. I mean, it's alright as long as it's not our own power, amirite?

 

 

If it was may choice I'd make such a quest, really, but with insane other lvl req's and drawbacks, but unfortunately I do not decide what quests shall be created. And yes such quest would be extremely epic, thanks for the idea, i noted it for future referance.

 

I think he was just poiting out the flaw in your logic. Whatever storyline idea behind it, point is at 80 magic you can hit higher then the spell at 95. Ohhh and you need 37 prayer to make the mage training arena easier. If you can get 80 magic you can get 37 prayer.

 

I think Jagex should make a non-pvp spell that hits like 40 or 50.

 

[You guys have bit confused with all this "new" method...

it is like cooking, the higher you get less chance of failing or producing more like woodcutting or fishing.

 

However it's only about certain things that you're already able to do. can't compare slayer skill and saying you can slay abbys at lower lvl. if we would fit slayer into this logic, it would be able to slay slayer monsters better at higher lvls, or get better rewards from them/the slayer masters.

 

The change in runecrafting is going by the right logic - in 44 you already gain the ability to make nature runes - 91 just make it producing more. so instead of the improving getting at once, over 5m xp later, you get it by steps till 91 - in a going up graph. if you fit to it the "wrong slayer case" then you get runecrafting natures before 44.

 

About the update itself: some may not like runecrafting like all new training methods, but it's good and it's gonna stay there watever you like it or not. but the mage update is kinda weak - as some already pointed out even without ancient spellbook, god spells are by far better in both price&lvl gained&max hit&spell cost - in the long run these spells won't change a bit in runescape. only nice graphic spells.

 

I excepted jagex to do more creative magic update that'll...for example...continue the line of GOP robes that makes you use less runes. this could actually lead into the right way of finally making mage should'able in more PVM situations. or some special attacks in mage, or making diffrent between bonuses staffs gives with adding the speed factor (kinda RSC->RS2 they did to range&melee, the forgot mage?). just raising the max hit helps only PKers, and "omg i can hit x damage with y" guys...

 

I'd love something that would make PVM non-cost prohibitive. I mentioned a few ideas already.

 

The change in runecrafting is going by the right logic - in 44 you already gain the ability to make nature runes - 91 just make it producing more. so instead of the improving getting at once, over 5m xp later, you get it by steps till 91 - in a going up graph. if you fit to it the "wrong slayer case" then you get runecrafting natures before 44.

 

Yes, you and metoo1000 are right. What I meant to say with my Slayer post is how it would be if the game was LOGICAL (I like this word alot if you may have noticed), but it is not. Considering real life, let's say you're a novice hunter and begin hunting elks. Those things are huge and slow, so they're an easy target and you hit them very often with your rifle. Now, try to hunt ducks that are flying above. You will be extremely terrible at hitting them, but that does NOT mean you will NEVER hit them. You will just be very inneficient and waste alot of bullets for each duck hunted, but you are still able to hunt them... As you practice on elks more, your aiming improves, and when you decide to hunt ducks again you could possibly hit them all the time.

This is how RS would work if it were logical, but it is not, you cannot hunt red chinchompas AT ALL until you hit the level, not hunt them very poorly like would happen if RS was like real life. In the context of RS, your idea of being able to slay the monsters better if you're above their required level, or get better drops, is really good.

 

Video games are illogical. Health bonuses, found in most games. If video games were logical, there wouldn't be any sort of hp boost or level boost or anything, the only thing would be skill with your character. There are a few games like this (Halo I think, not that I play it much, and fighting games.)

 

Fantasy games are illogical with the concepts of levels and new skills at higher levels and food healing...(Not just RS here btw.)

 

11 pages to read though...sorry for the double post

[canadiansmurf]

 

 

 

2) I feel like the max hit was lowered on purpose. With hits already in the 45-49's with the old potions, it left very little room for improvement on maximum hits.

 

 

Why single out mage then? Melle and range have far higher max hits.

Magic doesn't hit max very often, range is far more accurate in comparison.

I liked that normal mage pots got a boost, but the extreme mage pots should not have been nerfed.

 

 

 

3) Whats so bad about the essence update? People keep saying its horrible, dosen't make sense, and were using examples like dealing partial damage to slayer monsters. This update is not like that at all.

 

I really disagree with your analogy, this was a huge blow to people who are already 91+ rc.

I have no problem with the elemental runes bonus. However when it comes to nature runes the experience difference and sheer work required to go from 44 rc - 91 rc is huge. IF they brought out this level's business they should make 91+ rc more rewarding by giving a chance for triple natures or double bloods etc.

 

Yet another ill-thought out update by Jagex that rewards noobs and nerfs the acheivements of those who actually grind and put work into their levels.

 

[muggiwhplar]

Hooray, I no longer have to worry about going from 65 to 90 herblore just for the benefits of the extreme magic pots :D

 

89 summoning w/ 90-91 banked currently... Wolpentinger is basically stackable extreme magic pots lol, amazing for PvP and barraging rock lobsters :D

[nicrune007]

Hooray, I no longer have to worry about going from 65 to 90 herblore just for the benefits of the extreme magic pots :D

 

89 summoning w/ 90-91 banked currently... Wolpentinger is basically stackable extreme magic pots lol, amazing for PvP and barraging rock lobsters :D

 

Does combat familiar mess up rock lobbies safe spotting?

 

 

And yeah great update :thumbsup:

[JoeDaStudd]

Hooray, I no longer have to worry about going from 65 to 90 herblore just for the benefits of the extreme magic pots :D

 

89 summoning w/ 90-91 banked currently... Wolpentinger is basically stackable extreme magic pots lol, amazing for PvP and barraging rock lobsters :D

 

Does combat familiar mess up rock lobbies safe spotting?

 

 

And yeah great update :thumbsup:

I asked about this on burstinglobs (extremely helpful if you need a door partner or need to find a free world) last night. A lot of people were saying it works, but you have to keep calling. Another repeatedly said he'd never hit above 33 with barrage when using one.

On a side note magic pots are well worth taking if your bursting as it drastically improves kill speed, but does require potting once every 2 or 3 runs.

[brunokiller]

Please think through your updates. They've been going down since you released dragon claws and started the era of overpowered weapons so skillers could pk too and when they just realised they suck at it you made 26king easier.

 

 

And what is the point of these spells? God spells hit harder and are cheaper(and are also 15 levels lower).

[bedman]

Please think through your updates. They've been going down since you released dragon claws and started the era of overpowered weapons so skillers could pk too and when they just realised they suck at it you made 26king easier.

How did this update make 26king easier?

[sees_all1]

Hell yeah, more magic updates. Now they just have to update F2P magic :P

damn straight :grin:

[Zemus3654]

about time they made extremes useable in safe pvp minigames. Other updates are pretty useless to me.

[brunokiller]

Please think through your updates. They've been going down since you released dragon claws and started the era of overpowered weapons so skillers could pk too and when they just realised they suck at it you made 26king easier.

How did this update make 26king easier?

I was referring to making ep visible( the % thing).

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Rawr, I wasn't referring to new memembers specifically. Actually I was talking about people who are members and have paid for that month. Now if you're like me and someone gave you a membership card for a month because they were trying to get into your pants, and you decided to redeem it because you wanted to do the Ardougne achievement diary the thursday after it came out, then this four weeks would have truly sucked for updates like it did for me.

 

I imagine there must be other people out there like me who got a month around the same time I did and got this crap for the past month. They'd probably be annoyed as well.

[Silver_Corner]

@Ravian

 

I'm not disagreeing with that fact the max hit was lowered.

It was good thing that it was lowered so that magic is not to dependant on potions, and leaves room for bonuses in the future.

 

However, the only reason I stated a +10 level boost is because the potion is untradeable and cannot be used in dangerous pvp. Keep in mind too, that +10 levels is only a 9% bonus more than we have now. Thats only +2 max hit, making the new max hit 42 instead of 40.

 

Hitting an extra 9% in PvP would be a problem, but hitting 9% more in clan wars, or against rex is not a problem.

 

Also FYI: I used a wolpertinger and did not recieve any bonus from it. Has anyone else? Its possible these familars are not included in damage boosts, or were forgotten.

[JoeDaStudd]

Also FYI: I used a wolpertinger and did not recieve any bonus from it. Has anyone else? Its possible these familars are not included in damage boosts, or were forgotten.

Did you use the scroll to boost your magic level or just have it summoned?

 

They might have removed it from the equation as not to make 92 summoning the cheaper extreme magic potion as well as disallowing it in PvP.

[D Jay99]

Also FYI: I used a wolpertinger and did not recieve any bonus from it. Has anyone else? Its possible these familars are not included in damage boosts, or were forgotten.

Did you use the scroll to boost your magic level or just have it summoned?

 

They might have removed it from the equation as not to make 92 summoning the cheaper extreme magic potion as well as disallowing it in PvP.

I'm using a wolpertinger + scrolls at rock lobsters at the moment, I've hit a few 25's with ice burst so I can confirm wolpertinger does work.

 

Also, +10 from extreme mage seems a bit overpowered. Spellbook swap/ice barrage at 84/86?

I think it is pretty balanced at the moment, both 92 summ and 91 herblore are pretty hard to get.

[Zepheras]

@Ravian

 

I'm not disagreeing with that fact the max hit was lowered.

It was good thing that it was lowered so that magic is not to dependant on potions, and leaves room for bonuses in the future.

 

However, the only reason I stated a +10 level boost is because the potion is untradeable and cannot be used in dangerous pvp. Keep in mind too, that +10 levels is only a 9% bonus more than we have now. Thats only +2 max hit, making the new max hit 42 instead of 40.

 

Hitting an extra 9% in PvP would be a problem, but hitting 9% more in clan wars, or against rex is not a problem.

 

Also FYI: I used a wolpertinger and did not recieve any bonus from it. Has anyone else? Its possible these familars are not included in damage boosts, or were forgotten.

 

The differences between super/extreme strength, and normal/extreme ranged potions are about 2 damage. 30 from ice barrage plus 15% boost is 34.5, and 36.3 after 21% boost, and this is using a base damage of 30, meaning that the gap widens with possibly higher hitting spells. I would say that +15% for normal magic potion and 21% for extreme would be close to the standards of what we have for range/extreme range, and super/extreme strength.

 

Also, extreme strength only adds around 6-7 damage from nothing, whereas a 30% extreme magic would have added 9 damage using a base of just 30!?

 

 

 

 

And about the wolpertinger...let's see.....

We don't have an equivalent of a summon beast that can provide the boost of an extreme strength and range. Chances are, the boost from wolpertinger would be either lowered to below 7, or changed to 10% accuracy boost, or have extreme magic potion adds 8 levels instead of 7.

 

Which reminds me of the magic PRAYERS.....should they continue to boost accuracy or damage?

 

 

Which reminds me that Jagex, in their course of trying to be 'original' from other MMORPG and trying make ranged and magic 'different' from melee, pretty much made the combat system rather awkward. Today, ranged isn't that much of a difference from melee, as they finally released the 'ranged strength' of the ammos. Magic, supposedly only spell based in terms of maximum damage, with boosters only adding to accuracy (which barely works since accuracy in RuneScape is too random), ends up having percentage damage boost anyway.

 

What's more, we have NO ELEMENTAL SYSTEM, NO OTHER KINDS OF DAMAGE SPELLS OTHER THAN PROJECTILES, NO VARYING SPEED IN SPELLS.....and the list goes on and on....