17th November 2009 - Potions, Spells and Runes

[Xx_Flare_xX]

The only thing I don't like is the nerf of the Extreme Magic potions. 91 Herblaw for a +7? 40% bonus was perfect in my eyes!

 

The RC update doesn't bother me much (I don't rc much) and the rest is good :thumbup:

[strilmus]

Well, 91 still gains more than other folk, the gap is just not as drastic. Frankly, it's kind of elitist (yeah, I'm using that word) to think it's only hard worthwhile work if you make everybody else look like noobs and tear your profit (or assist exp) from the hands of those who also work hard but started later than you. Why can't you be happy or something? Things always change. Can't stop it. I get the feeling that other things will follow suit sooner or later. Enjoy it while it lasts. In fact, don't enjoy it, because if there's nothing more for you to do, then you may as well be playing nothing. It should be the experience that is good, not just the goal. Otherwise you end up like an old retired person with nothing to do.

 

I do agree that their logic in trying to connect these two updates wasn't thought through. Perhaps if they give a chance of more high level runes at the higher levels, then it'd make more sense. Plus it'd mollify some of these guys who thought they were going to be on top forever or did it purely for profit when other ways are easier and available.

 

And what's up with comparing it to making things in other skills reachable earlier? That's already the case ANYWAY. Cooking burns more, woodcutting and fishing take longer, lighting fires takes longer, hell, killing things takes longer. You'd be crazy to start doing things right as you gain the minimum level to do it; gaining a few more levels before switching is much better since there's less frustration. In effect, the actual competence levels needed to do things is quite higher than the minimum. Even hunter increases your chance to fail if you're not a high enough level.

 

Out of all this though, you guys should really be angry that this update didn't really help F2P mages at all.

[Kersei]

How much data did you collect?

If I flip a coin 20 times, on average it should land 10x heads, 10x tails. However, it is not uncommon or even unlikely to get 11x, 12x, or even 13x heads. What you need is a very large sample, and crafting one load isn't going to do it.

 

If you craft 1000 essence at level 68 runecrafting, 95% of the time you will get between 1470 nats and 1530 nats, if its level based.

 

If it isn't, and its experience based, then if you craft 1000 essence at level 68, 95% of the time you will get between 1081 nats and 1119 nats.

 

 

 

I doubt any of you have taken enough data for it to be statistically significant.

 

It doesn't matter, the little data I took deviated enough from both your proposals to be statistically significant.

[Saunamajuri]

Okay Jagex, you won! Im gonna go train runecrafting now... :eek:

[D Jay99]

Assume the natures/ess maxes out at 1.5 before 91, and the formula just a linear function based on your level 44-91, that would make the formula for natures/ess:

 

1+(0,5/(91-44))(x-44) = amount of natures per essence, where x is your level.

Level 60 = 1.17

Level 70 = 1.28

Level 80 = 1.38

Level 85 = 1.44

 

Sounds about right?

 

If it were to go with xp, it would be 1+(0,5/(5,902,831-55,649))(x-55,649) - x being your xp, which would mean:

 

Level 60 = 1.02

Level 70 = 1.06

Level 80 = 1.17

Level 85 = 1.27

 

That doesn't seem to be quite right.

[The Observer]

Ooh, sounds interesting. I don't have the levels for it, but wouldn't mind to see them in action.

[sees_all1]

It doesn't matter, the little data I took deviated enough from both your proposals to be statistically significant.

That is a load of bull. Take a statistics course, learn what standard error means, and why one sample isn't enough to "prove" anything.

 

 

So I assume you took 1 load, 50 ess?

 

89 runecrafting puts you somewhere in the neighborhood of 82% complete for double nats?

So P = .82, then the standard error = sqrt(.82*(1-.82) / 50) = .05433

 

That means that 95% of the time you craft 50 nature runes at once, you should receive somewhere between 85.5 and 96.4 (+/- 10.9%), which is a pretty big range.

 

If you craft fewer nature runes at a time, like 26, the relative range gets even larger, from 43.4 to 51.2 (+/- 15.1%)

 

 

Statistically significant my buns.

[Kersei]

So I assume you took 1 load, 50 ess?... Statistically significant my buns.

 

Why would I be telling you you're wrong if I had only crafted 1 run. I did 1 graahk's worth.

 

I know my statistics, lol.

[Skull]

Why does jagex keep doing things I like after I quit?

 

I might log in a do a tiny bit of runecrafting. Maybe.

[Obtaurian]

So, if you can now craft multiple natures before 91, shouldn't that mean that you can craft multiple laws/deaths/bloods, too? Thought someone earlier in the thread said you couldn't craft multiple laws, but that wouldn't make sense if it worked for natures and not the other runes.

 

Anyway, potentially cheaper magic is worth the slightly decreased income from Runecrafting. New spells are kind of cool. The prices to use them should go down in the next few months. Totally digging the extreme potion update. Gives Wolpertinger scrolls a legitimate use and cuts down on what was a slightly OP extreme mage potion.

[Mike_Ike111]

Rather lame update.

 

 

RC is still a [cabbage]ty skill that is completely boring and mind numbing to train.

 

Magic is still a downright horrible way to use combat with. Even with these new spells and damages, it is still a [bleep]ing worthless combat type if you are fighting monsters.

 

And the potions...congratulations Jagex. Now if you would bring them back to the wilderness you would have actually gotten it right.

[Pret]

Seems like Pure Essence is unbuyable from G/E again. WONDERFUL. Jagex is forcing me to DIY another skill and I have over 620m to spend.

 

It's been... quite a frickin' long time since the normal spell book has gotten new spells, if I can recall.. I'm glad to see it, though.

 

With the runecrafting update itself, it seems quite alright. Hopefully the market for runes and runecrafting itself will stay a tiny bit stable.

[Talset65]

New magic max hit down to 39 from 46.

 

Runecrafting is a lot less valuble (in my opinion) for the levels you have gained. I have been 99 since Jan 07, and this is by far the worst Runecraft update out (worse than when ZMI was released for me).

 

And I was planning on Runecrafting in December after not doing so for practically 2 years.. Oh well..

 

Also, does anybody know if Wolpertinger bonus stacks with extreme magic? Caus if it does then the max hit is back up to around 46.

[Myweponsg00d]

You people don't understand anything. The prices in this game are all determined by how much money you can make per hour. Nats are not going to drop 50% just because more people can craft more natures. All this means is that plenty of 91+ RCers are just going to stop RCing if their profit per hour drops too low. Less RCers=Less nats=Higher nat prices. I mean, yes, this might permanently lower nat prices a little bit, but it isn't going to be by much. Look at whips. Slayer has become an unbelieveably popular skill, and now with methods like unicorn/bunyip/overdose pots, it is soooo much easier and faster to kill abbies and there are countless 85 slayers and way more servers...but whips do not continue to just plummet to the floor. They stay fairly stable due to their money making appeal at the current time.

 

Also, two words for you guys: Guilded Altar (or maybe one word: Ectofunctus). How do you think that people felt when they were burying 100's of millions worth of dragon bones for their prayer levels, and then poof, you need like 30% as much money to get the same level. It definitely "Screwed over" the people who had already done the work, but does that mean that this update should never have happened? Does that mean this update wasn't good for the game? Should they have left prayer as being only trainable by burying 100k+ dbones?

 

Also it appears from initial reports that the rate at which you sucessfully craft double runes is not very high at all unless you are close to the level (at least 84-86 RC for double nats at ~50% sucess rate). Before this update it was more profitable to make astrals once you could double them up. Right now its going to be better to do nats, but if a bunch of people change over it will cause a large drop in nats and a large rise in astrals and...well...you see where this is going. Eventually everything is going to balance out at a place where things remain *relatively* the same. The profit difference will probably fluctuate back and forth between astrals and nats and eventually, since you get more exp from nat crafting, it is probably going to end up being more profitable to craft astrals again.

 

Overall, the most important thing to take note of is that the profit that you gain in your trip from 44-91 RC is now a much more rewarding and interesting experience. Nothing says "FUN" like having nothing to look forward to until you train a skill for 100s of hours....right...? Overall, the profit from 91+ RC might go down, but the profit you make from 44-91 RC is definitely going up (at least for the time being). Why is this a bad thing? New players get to have more fun with the game, and more natures can come into the game faster, from a wider source of players. All this does is encourage people to have fun playing the game instead of doing "Work" leveling.

[Kersei]

You people don't understand anything. The prices in this game are all determined by how much money you can make per hour. Nats are not going to drop 50% just because more people can craft more natures. All this means is that plenty of 91+ RCers are just going to stop RCing if their profit per hour drops too low. Less RCers=Less nats=Higher nat prices. I mean, yes, this might permanently lower nat prices a little bit, but it isn't going to be by much. Look at whips. Slayer has become an unbelieveably popular skill, and now with methods like unicorn/bunyip/overdose pots, it is soooo much easier and faster to kill abbies and there are countless 85 slayers and way more servers...but whips do not continue to just plummet to the floor. They stay fairly stable due to their money making appeal at the current time.

 

Also, two words for you guys: Guilded Altar (or maybe one word: Ectofunctus). How do you think that people felt when they were burying 100's of millions worth of dragon bones for their prayer levels, and then poof, you need like 30% as much money to get the same level. It definitely "Screwed over" the people who had already done the work, but does that mean that this update should never have happened? Does that mean this update wasn't good for the game? Should they have left prayer as being only trainable by burying 100k+ dbones?

 

Also it appears from initial reports that the rate at which you sucessfully craft double runes is not very high at all unless you are close to the level (at least 84-86 RC for double nats at ~50% sucess rate). Before this update it was more profitable to make astrals once you could double them up. Right now its going to be better to do nats, but if a bunch of people change over it will cause a large drop in nats and a large rise in astrals and...well...you see where this is going. Eventually everything is going to balance out at a place where things remain *relatively* the same. The profit difference will probably fluctuate back and forth between astrals and nats and eventually, since you get more exp from nat crafting, it is probably going to end up being more profitable to craft astrals again.

 

Actually you start to get close to 50% more nats around the 70s, so that means a lot more people will be crafting natures. Natures will not remain *relatively* the same, and neither will pure ess, for that matter. And 2x astrals > 1.5x nats until 89 at least.

[yurpsie]

Actually you start to get close to 50% more nats around the 70s, so that means a lot more people will be crafting natures. Natures will not remain *relatively* the same, and neither will pure ess, for that matter. And 2x astrals > 1.5x nats until 89 at least.

 

But natures can't go below a certain price because its use for alch.

[howbadisbad]

Mage finally gets a good update, now range needs one.

 

Runecrafting update was obviously made to attempt to fix the rising rune prices.

[bedman]

So, if you can now craft multiple natures before 91, shouldn't that mean that you can craft multiple laws/deaths/bloods, too? Thought someone earlier in the thread said you couldn't craft multiple laws, but that wouldn't make sense if it worked for natures and not the other runes.

 

Anyway, potentially cheaper magic is worth the slightly decreased income from Runecrafting. New spells are kind of cool. The prices to use them should go down in the next few months. Totally digging the extreme potion update. Gives Wolpertinger scrolls a legitimate use and cuts down on what was a slightly OP extreme mage potion.

Hmm okay, it gives wolpertinger a use, but for me it makes extreme mage pots just obsolete. I think + 10 magic bonus for extreme mage pot would have been a better solution. Wolpertinger would still be good cause its cheaper (300gp a scroll or so) and can be used in pvp worlds, while extreme mage pot needs a very high herblore lvl, hit higher, but cannot be used in pvp worlds.

 

@ howdasisbad: Were you even thinking when you posted that? Mage didn't get any good update at all. You still hit higher with claws of guthix and it's even cheaper. Only downside is you risk your void mace if you would use it in risky pvp, but then you would probably use ancients anyway.

 

Range doesn't need any updates at all. I guess it's just a coincidence that you are 99 ranged and only 83 magic? :-)

[Kersei]

But natures can't go below a certain price because its use for alch.

 

Alchables can rise too you know ;o

[Cactuaar]

Meh, I feel ripped off now for getting 90 herblore :cry: I spent 80 mill getting 90 herblore, mainly for the mid 40s I could hit. Now that the max is 39ish, I feel like it wasn't worth it. Oh well, I still have extreme attack and super strength pots. But knowing that for a 5k potion (the normal mage pot), I could be doing 15 percent more damage, instead of 80 mill for 21 percent more damage, that hurts. Also, the boosted level will decrease normally right? So that's only 2 minutes of more damage than a normal 5k potion.

Oh well, I'll get over it, but it still irks me.

[Soma2035]

New magic max hit down to 39 from 46.

 

Runecrafting is a lot less valuble (in my opinion) for the levels you have gained. I have been 99 since Jan 07, and this is by far the worst Runecraft update out (worse than when ZMI was released for me).

 

And I was planning on Runecrafting in December after not doing so for practically 2 years.. Oh well..

 

Also, does anybody know if Wolpertinger bonus stacks with extreme magic? Caus if it does then the max hit is back up to around 46.

 

Max hit with magic has gone up actually, to 208 on a single target unless I'm overlooking something.

[bedman]

New magic max hit down to 39 from 46.

 

Runecrafting is a lot less valuble (in my opinion) for the levels you have gained. I have been 99 since Jan 07, and this is by far the worst Runecraft update out (worse than when ZMI was released for me).

 

And I was planning on Runecrafting in December after not doing so for practically 2 years.. Oh well..

 

Also, does anybody know if Wolpertinger bonus stacks with extreme magic? Caus if it does then the max hit is back up to around 46.

 

Max hit with magic has gone up actually, to 208 on a single target unless I'm overlooking something.

Where do you get these numbers from? (you are not the kind of person that makes stupid jokes to get attention normally so I assume this somehow makes sense)

[Soma2035]

Where do you get these numbers from? (you are not the kind of person that makes stupid jokes to get attention normally so I assume this somehow makes sense)

 

Minimum level to complete WGS is 75 magic. The Stone of Jas raises your magic to 255. 255 - 75 yields a 180 level boost, or a 540% damage boost. 10% from your staff results in 550%. The highest hitting spell is Miasmic Barrage, which deals 32 damage. Because of the 550% increase, your maximum hit is multiplied by 6.5 totally 208.

 

And it's sort of a joke. Actually, it's what happens when I'm really, really bored in class.

[bedman]

Aha! I could have known because I read something about it on RSOF where you were replying too. As I thought, it did make sense somehow, not the "stupid joke" I was referring to. Now to get someone vid it.

[Blutters]

This is a step in the right direction but there's still a few flights of stairs to go.

Magic's max hit should be based on level normally. They fully have the capacity to do this, so why won't they?

Oh, also, does the Extreme Magic Potion stack with a Wolpertinger?

 

Still holding my breath for the Slayer and Prayer updates but this was a neat little treat in the meantime, as was the champion update last week.