Summoning in a PVP context.

[Obtaurian]

Last night I got into a bit of an argument with another player over what the best way to train melee was. He became increasingly frustrated, inquiring as to whether or not I was a level 90. He said he was level 131, to which I responded by quick-chatting my own combat level, which also happened to be 131. He quickly looked me up on the hiscores and pointed out that I have no skills at level 99, and that my account would be terrible for PVP. I told him that I'm more of a monster hunting kind of guy, and that I've had no inclination to do much PVP in my years, to which he responded by slamming his forehead on the keyboard. Repeatedly.

 

Now, this would have been the end of the discussion, but I was feeling trollish and decided to continue with, "You know, I bet I could beat you in a fight at the duel arena."

 

I could practically smell his anger from the safety of my computer chair. He immediately began spouting every obscenity and insult he could come up with, which was limited to 'noob' and '[bleep],' sadly. He declared that he was an old-school player killer, and said he would wipe the floor with me (though in less eloquent terms). His argument was that my melee stats were lower, therefore I would surely lose the duel. I countered that my summoning and prayer levels made up for my lower melee stats. He responded with a slurry of censored words, from which I was only able to discern that he did not approve of using summoning in PVP of any kind. He whined that my using a familiar was no different than calling one of my friends to help me kill him. "But it wouldn't be much of a fair fight if I couldn't utilize an important aspect of my combat level," I said. "Why couldn't I just ask you not to use armor, as it utilizes your defense level?" Once again, he responded by throwing his keyboard across the room.

 

I spent the next five minutes telling him that I'm ready for a duel whenever he is. His responses during this time were much the same as his previous ones: "******* noob ** * hfej old schoopk**e eeueho9w83,wildy#**##***," and so on and so forth.

 

The moral of the story is that summoning is a combat skill whether you like it or not. The use of summoning is justified by the increase in combat levels. For your entertainment, here are the relevant combat skills of both myself and the player I was arguing with:

 

Obtaurian (me):

97 HP

96 Attack

96 Strength

96 Defense

82 Prayer

90 Summoning ( I was 89 during the argument. Getting 90 bumped me up to 132 combat.)

 

Uber Pro Old School PKer:

99 HP

99 Attack

99 Strength

95 Defense

70 Prayer

76 Summoning (which might explain why he was so hesitant to fight me.)

 

Magic and range were discluded, as neither of us have exceptional levels.

 

So, how do you feel about summoning? Is it a valid addition to combat, or is it just an excuse for noobs like me to boast of combat prowess that we don't actually have?

[muggiwhplar]

Unless you're using a BoB filled with food, summoning's more of a disadvantage in PvP... the protect-from-summoning prayer makes you pretty much invincible to familiars, sadly :( Even my friend's steel titan could barely hit me when I was maging him (meaning I barely had any range def)

[Slayr]

I think it's a valid addition to combat. I see it as something incredibly similar to prayer; it's just something there to help you during fights. I've seen people claiming that slayer should be added to combat before summoning, and I ask why? Slayer is nothing more than someone telling you where to train combat.

 

Short answer: Yes, it's valid.

[Maxingmck]

valid

 

Just as valid as pray = cost a little lower yet takes a ton longer to get charms

[Aneron]

it's valid but not too useful in pvp. i mean, if you have 99 you might as well use a steel for the def boost lol, but it is less decisive that an equal amount of combat levels in a more directly combat-related skill. prayer is, of course, extremely decisive if you get 95

[Shelby_Polo]

Summoning is (somewhat) just as useful in PvP as it is in PvM; bringing extra food in your BoB is an obvious advantage, and even having a unicorn is more than helpful. Combat familiars are as useful in PvP as they are in PvM, therefore people do not bring them. I think the main purpose of comat familiars are more use to Slayer or camping.

All though I do find the C5 Sacred Clay familiar is very good in SC.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Valid? Yes. Advantageous? Not really. Unless you have a Steel Titan or a Pak Yak loafing around. Even then, most players won't bother with the familiar (prayers take care of them) and they'll just focus all of their energy into pounding you.

 

I've simply seen Summoning as a more PvE-centric combat style, more than likely due to the beasts of burden or the healers (Bunyip, Unicorn) that we make use of on a daily basis. Not until familiars can attack another player in single-way combat would I see Summoning as an equal partner with the other combat skills.

 

[For the record, skills are becoming increasingly meaningless nowadays in PvP. So long as you have D Claws or an AGS, if you can boost your Strength/Attack over 99, then you can definitely win. Thought I'd throw that out there.]

[J35u5_M4]

I do consider it an addition to combat, just as prayer you get special effects that help you hit higher, prayer has prayers/curses that increase your stats to hit more, summoning give you a familiar that hits, making the total damage done higher, just as prayer.

 

I approve :3

[TheAncient]

Uni's totally own clan wars, just saying.

[Everyonedies]

For myself id have to say no but only because im a noob with summoning. I think i have 47 or 48 now all from lamps and tears of gunthix and a little bit of peguin points. So i havnt gotten to the levels where summoning seems worth while yet.

[Askthedude]

Uni Spec + brew dose + pineapple pizza slice can generally keep you alive during a Dclaw rush, so I'm going to say yes it helps.

[Zepheras]

 

 

Not until familiars can attack another player in single-way combat would I see Summoning as an equal partner with the other combat skills.

 

 

This would be the main reason I don't see summoning as a valid combat skill. The biggest change summoning brought about to combat was the use of healers to replace food and guthan. Occasionally a BoB will take the place of a healer if the loot is overwhelming, but using a combat familiar is definitely out of the question. You can't use it in single combat levels, and that's like saying that you can't use prayers in single combat areas if 'prayer' was a separate avatar from your character, even though you rightfully gained the combat levels.

 

Even if you're using it in multi-combat areas, you need to a very high level familar to hit accurately on the monster you're fighting, which means anything from 20-30 levels apart. With summoning being a relatively difficult skill to train, you'll rarely see a player with a summoning level that closely matches his combat stats and the monster level range that the player will commonly engage. Coupled with the fact that familiars enter the battle after a delay (enough for me to whip 3-4 times) unless you keep calling the famiiar with the whistle button, the loss of healing ability, the restricted combat style of the familiars, the consideration that some familiars are vastly inaccurate for their combat level since they are more skiller-based, you end up with very little combat familiar options for PvM.

 

In PVP, summoning is fully negated by protect from summon prayer, eliminating combat tactics such as attacking the opponent with one combat style and have the familiar hitting another to get some damage through the three basic protection prayers. Those that boost stats doesn't stack the boost with potion, and the boost is nothing close to the effects of potions (with the exception of wolpertinger).

 

I currently see the extra combat levels from summoning as a result of my improved survival abilities in combat (from the healers), not as an inprovement in my offensive abilities.

[stonewall337]

Wolp=Pro for barraging EP'ers.

[Kalafai]

For myself id have to say no but only because im a noob with summoning. I think i have 47 or 48 now all from lamps and tears of gunthix and a little bit of peguin points. So i havnt gotten to the levels where summoning seems worth while yet.

Just whip up a crimson charm into... what, at your level... Pyrefiend. Bravo, 2 dps. With an extra bonus of absorbing about 1/7th off PVE damage, by monsters wasting one or two shots against it, with no hope of killing it, especially since they go right back to you after a couple rounds. At that level with one, during a daggonoth slayer task at lighthouse, it kills about 10 on it's own, and allowed me to stay for the full mission the first time, easily, about 40 kills more than my previous best run.

 

Similar effect on pvp nubs(aka long running pures and pvp enthusiasts) you'll likely find yourself with just that little nudge to take out what would otherwise be a coinflip opponent.

 

And with summoning, melee, AND piety prayers on your opponent... well, sap melee for a minute before you switch to offense and they wont have any prayer against you left.

[meb]

In PvP summoning makes no difference because the familiars can't attack your opponent. And nobody fights someone with a yak full of rocktails. And when you PK in multicombat combat level rarely matters because you can get piled any moment.

[1230abcz]

The only time I ever use combat familiars is in clan wars, duel arena, or fight pits. It's always fun hitting a 20+ with geyser titan scroll with a 70+ AGS spec for the KO. Other than that, no real use in PvP/BH worlds, since you're not going to find someone in a multi zone in gear worth killing for anyway (unless they're surrounded by 50+ dots that are ready to swarm you with dds').

[chuckangie]

What about the passive effects of familiars that boosts combat skills? What about the Wolpentinger scroll that boosts magic levels.

 

They don't need to attack along side you, they just need to be there for their invisible boosts and stuff. Then again pots seem to be better at it.

[Georgelemmons]

I can't comment on the PvP argument (I've managed one kill over 500k in my career), but I loved your writing. I laughed several times reading this post. :smile:

[3hitm4g3u]

In terms of BH/PvP worlds summoning is pointless unless you're a near maxed/maxed main fighting other near maxed/maxed mains.

 

The combat level gain is not worth any advantage that summoning offers.

[oXMutilateXo]

in duels its pretty sad, wilderness u get a combat boost if u have a summoning familiar out

 

tldr; wildy its fair, duels it isnt, unless they use 1 too

[Obtaurian]

in duels its pretty sad, wilderness u get a combat boost if u have a summoning familiar out

 

tldr; wildy its fair, duels it isnt, unless they use 1 too

 

Why is it unfair in duels? If your opponent chooses not to use a combat style, that's their problem, is it not? I'm not gonna complain about a guy barraging me if I didn't come prepared for it.

[JoeDaStudd]

in duels its pretty sad, wilderness u get a combat boost if u have a summoning familiar out

 

tldr; wildy its fair, duels it isnt, unless they use 1 too

In duels they see the same combat level as if you was in the PvP with a familiar and well as both parties having to agree to allow familiars....

 

 

The trouble with summoning in PvP is your limited to either BoB's, healers and boosters. Without your PK'ing in a group or are 100% sure theres only 1 or 2 people in the multi area.

One thing I love about summoning is using combat familiars in PvP minigames. The amount of times in castle wars using a normal attack+scroll+familiar attack has KO'd people is stupid.

 

If only it was possible to use familiars in single PvP, even if it was just the combat scrolls.

[oXMutilateXo]

u cant see how edgeville pking would instantly become LULZ IM KOOL I USE PVE SKILLS TO OWN U IN PVP! ? WoW went the same way, dont try to let runescape go the same way too please, familliars are for monster hunting and pvp minigames where no1 nerdrages if they die ( safe minigames ), dangerous pvp situations should be player only imo, if u agree to it in duels then yeh use it but if u wont duel without use of familiars your a sad bean tbh

[Squisher_33]

i think combat familiars shuold be allowed in 1v1, however wolpertinger lets you use extreme mage in pvp worlds so u can hit 40s with barrage

[Askthedude]

u cant see how edgeville pking would instantly become LULZ IM KOOL I USE PVE SKILLS TO OWN U IN PVP! ?

 

Players vs EVERYTHING, do other players not count as something?

 

Familliars are for monster hunting and pvp minigames

 

Where in the Kb, Rs website or anything Jagex has ever published does it say that? Familiars are to be used where ever the player feels like.

 

 

 

If you look at quite a lot of Mage Bank/High Wild pker's videos you'll see that most of them have a tbird/tort/yak so it must give some form of help in pking situations.