Fire cape compromise. New post by Mod Chris L.

[Jaded]

RS has the be the ONLY mmo where the gamers expect the developers to tailor their game around their technical limitations. Jesus [bleep]ing Christ. People with bad connections, people with neurological disorders, people whose age impacts their reflexes... It's all lame excuses that only really apply to a negligible amount of level 93 slayers.

 

Hah, beat me to it. I was thinking the exact same thing while playing Modern Warfare 2 the other day. The fact is that Jagex has been perpetuating EZ mode for far too long...everything is afkable or at least not that difficult (for instance, no split second reactions akin to first person shooters). So when the game deviates from the norm, people freak out over having to do something they are not used to.

 

I taught my Dad to play Army of 2 40th Day and he loved it because I guess older people don't step into that world. Guess what, he loved it and didn't suck (after a while).

 

So for older gamers who are afraid of "twitch" gaming: age ain't nothing but a number!! Get one of us young 'uns to show you how it's done. You might discover you enjoy sniping from cover or setting people on fire! :thumbsup:

 

Edited to fix grammar :D

[Me_Hate_Libs]

what about all the quests i cant finish because of my lag or reaction time?

 

 

 

sssssssssllllllippery slope your going down jagex. (oh wait were already half way down the slide into the kiddie pool)

 

Quests can't be as easily solved because of those issues. Monsters like this can be.

[ArtemisCatal]

I wasn't happy with the requirement in the first place, but I'm also not happy that jagex had to change it. This is a slippery slope. But I think that a lot of you are just calling anyone who brings of up any point of view you don't argree with as whinnners

 

That's my issue as well. Jagex has been reversing all its decisions as of late in the face of--now don't take offense--whining from the forums. The people who are happy with updates don't go on the boards en masse and tell them how great it is, so they only see the negative. I don't have 93 slay yet, but I am working towards it and I did go and get a fire cape for this reason. So yes, I am biased, just as people who don't have fast computers/connections are biased towards that end.

 

Also, people have to face the fact that as gaming technology moves forward, they have to move forward as well. They can't expect Jagex to confine themselves technologically when other game companies set higher system requirements to produce better looking games. They can't. They will lose money. So future updates will have the same issue re: connectivity, lag, etc...and I don't know how Jagex will deal with this in the future.

 

Moving forward is a great idea, but it doesn't take into acount the realities of things. And for a lot of people, RS is the last stop of the gamming train as they have been outpaced by technology as other games have grown. They haven't have the money to buy the technology, or they live in a region that doesn't have the money, or see the need, to keep up with technology. High speed internet isn't everywhere, or at a price people can afford everywhere. RS as been billed as a game that doesn't require supper awsome technology to access. At some point these people will be left behind, through no fault of our own, but does that mean they should just go quietly into the night as though their fun on RS has no value? Of course they are going to do everything they can to try and hang on. And you would do the same thing in their place.

 

Edit: and there were some whinners on the forums... but there were also people that had legitiment comments/concerns that are getting lumped in with the rabble

[langer]

From a personal level (and honestly that's all I care about) it has nothing to do with my internet connection.

 

My issue is one of reflexative ability. Now, i don't know if I've ever mentioned it to anyone, but I have moderateCharcot Marie Tooth Disease in my wrists and fingers. I can't do Fight Caves. I can't do Nomad. I can't do GWD. I have the timing, but for very short periods before my fingers get tired. I can pretty easily avoid the digging of the Wyrms, because I've done the lower end ones.

 

Now let someone tell me with a straight face that I shouldn't be able to use them because I don't have the cape. Look, you have a Fire Cape and you have an advantage. Use it. Make it worthwhile. i won't be able to. Do you hear me crying over it? Hell no.

 

Oh, and if it's a "slap in the face to Fire Cape holders" you know what I say? Screw your Fire Cape. Screw your Fight Caves. When I get the level to kill them, I will and I won't for one second think about that stupid little animated cape. :evil:

 

About the last sentence, it would be stupid for anyone that can't get a fire cape to not use the ability to unlock them for ideological values. I expect anyone that can't or won't get a fire cape to use that feature and "pay the price", I just hope that price is appropriate. Some people have suggested insane amounts of points (several thousand) while the current reward system tops at 400 points. I hope Jagex implements an appropriate price. The bracket I suggested seems appropriate enough.

 

On the whole, I've never agreed that much with you, must be something in the water! Sorry to hear about your condition, you're missing on some nice features (GWD mostly, fight caves are a chore... with a nice reward).

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Artemis is right. Jagex has prided themselves for years on the notion that their game can be played by anyone. I think it's huge part of their community. I also think this part of the community are quiet because they can't play RS and chat on the forums at the same time, lol

 

Once again, it's people forcing themselves on toehrs because they want better gaming.

 

And Langer, I would never suggest that anyone not use an advantage simply over stubborness. I simply know I won't because I can't obtain it.

 

I've tried the Fight Caves, By the time I get to Jad my hand is throbbing. It's already one thing that I have to wear special gloves just to play for a few hours with regular breaks. Mouses kill me.

[ArtemisCatal]

RS has the be the ONLY mmo where the gamers expect the developers to tailor their game around their technical limitations. Jesus [bleep]ing Christ. People with bad connections, people with neurological disorders, people whose age impacts their reflexes... It's all lame excuses that only really apply to a negligible amount of level 93 slayers.

 

Hah, beat me to it. I was thinking the exact same thing while playing Modern Warfare 2 the other day. The fact is that Jagex has been perpetuating EZ mode for far too long...everything is afkable or at least not that difficult (for instance, no split second reactions akin to first person shooters). So when the game deviates from the norm, people freak out over having to do something they are not used to.

 

I taught my Dad to play Army of 2 40th Day and he loved it because I guess older people don't step into that world. Guess what, he loved it and didn't suck (after a while).

 

So for older gamers who are afraid of "twitch" gaming: age ain't nothing but a number!! Get one of us young 'uns to show you how it's done. You might discover you enjoy sniping from cover or setting people on fire! :thumbsup:

 

Edited to fix grammar :D

 

 

Well, don't you want the reverse, them tailoring the game around your Technical Superiority?

[Me_Hate_Libs]

RS has the be the ONLY mmo where the gamers expect the developers to tailor their game around their technical limitations. Jesus [bleep]ing Christ. People with bad connections, people with neurological disorders, people whose age impacts their reflexes... It's all lame excuses that only really apply to a negligible amount of level 93 slayers.

 

Hah, beat me to it. I was thinking the exact same thing while playing Modern Warfare 2 the other day. The fact is that Jagex has been perpetuating EZ mode for far too long...everything is afkable or at least not that difficult (for instance, no split second reactions akin to first person shooters). So when the game deviates from the norm, people freak out over having to do something they are not used to.

 

I taught my Dad to play Army of 2 40th Day and he loved it because I guess older people don't step into that world. Guess what, he loved it and didn't suck (after a while).

 

So for older gamers who are afraid of "twitch" gaming: age ain't nothing but a number!! Get one of us young 'uns to show you how it's done. You might discover you enjoy sniping from cover or setting people on fire! :thumbsup:

 

Edited to fix grammar :D

 

 

Well, don't you want the reverse, them tailoring the game around your Technical Superiority?

 

Yes, but most other games do that so it totally justifies his point. Yay conformity. :thumbsup:

[Bloodstain]

 

Anything under 300 pts would be a slap in the face to fire cape holders.

 

Why? Your reward for beating the fight caves should be to own a fire cape.

[ArtemisCatal]

RS has the be the ONLY mmo where the gamers expect the developers to tailor their game around their technical limitations. Jesus [bleep]ing Christ. People with bad connections, people with neurological disorders, people whose age impacts their reflexes... It's all lame excuses that only really apply to a negligible amount of level 93 slayers.

 

Hah, beat me to it. I was thinking the exact same thing while playing Modern Warfare 2 the other day. The fact is that Jagex has been perpetuating EZ mode for far too long...everything is afkable or at least not that difficult (for instance, no split second reactions akin to first person shooters). So when the game deviates from the norm, people freak out over having to do something they are not used to.

 

I taught my Dad to play Army of 2 40th Day and he loved it because I guess older people don't step into that world. Guess what, he loved it and didn't suck (after a while).

 

So for older gamers who are afraid of "twitch" gaming: age ain't nothing but a number!! Get one of us young 'uns to show you how it's done. You might discover you enjoy sniping from cover or setting people on fire! :thumbsup:

 

Edited to fix grammar :D

 

 

Well, don't you want the reverse, them tailoring the game around your Technical Superiority?

 

Yes, but most toehr games do that so it totally justifies his point. Yay conformity. :thumbsup:

 

 

That's my point, every other game pushes the technology people have. RS aims for assessablity, and I don't think that is a bad thing to aim for (though I admit to being bias). If you want something that RS is not, then maybe you need to move on. If you are not having fun any more, then you are the only person to blame for not finding something more your "technological speed". People at the top have a lot of options... those of us at the bottom are without choices.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

That's my point, every other game pushes the technology people have. RS aims for assessablity, and I don't think that is a bad thing to aim for (though I admit to being bias). If you want something that RS is not, then maybe you need to move on. If you are not having fun any more, then you are the only person to blame for not finding something more your "technological speed". People at the top have a lot of options... those of us at the bottom are without choices.

 

Uh oh, I think that means half of Jagex and their CEO would have to move on then. lol

 

And with that, I'm off to doing more important matters. Scooping my cat's litterbox, getting the mail, taking out the trash, and making dinner. :P

[Jaded]

At some point these people will be left behind, through no fault of our own, but does that mean they should just go quietly into the night as though their fun on RS has no value?

 

Jagex has prided themselves for years on the notion that their game can be played by anyone. I think it's huge part of their community. I also think this part of the community are quiet because they can't play RS and chat on the forums at the same time, lol

 

^ LOL on the last line

 

I understand the situtation better reading the responses here (rather than the Anacin-inducing arguments of the RSOF). I don't always think about things like medical conditions on games where I just assume everyone is on a level playing field (we all started with the same 25 gp after all). The compromise shows that they're not gonna forget you, so that's something at least.

 

And yeah, it's not often you'll find a game that doesn't try to vastly improve with each iteration...that's what keeps the graphic card industry in business! :lol:

[langer]

 

Anything under 300 pts would be a slap in the face to fire cape holders.

 

Why? Your reward for beating the fight caves should be to own a fire cape.

 

Why does it have to be the only reward? For years, people needed to complete a long set of quest and start a master quest just to be able to kill dark beasts at 90 slayer.

Would you argue that these quest should only give xp reward?

[Obtaurian]

It still amazes me that some players are still clutching at straws. Like Dragonlordjl said, Runescape is the only game that has players who actually WANT the developers to dumb down the system requirements of their game. No other gaming company does that or has that problem. Maybe this is why players of other MMO's find Runescape to be an absolute joke. In this case, I would definitely agree with them.

 

"Hey man, you play WOW?!"

 

"Yeah, what's up."

 

"So there's this boss monster that gives me about a second to react to his attacks, and all I have to do is click this little symbol. I had to kill this monster to access some high-level content, but now I totally don't have to!!!!!1!"

 

"... WOW BRO I WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT EITHER. BRB GONNA GO RAID FOR TEN HOURS. I PLAY A WARRIOR BTW, LOL"

[Bloodstain]

 

Anything under 300 pts would be a slap in the face to fire cape holders.

 

Why? Your reward for beating the fight caves should be to own a fire cape.

 

Why does it have to be the only reward? For years, people needed to complete a long set of quest and start a master quest just to be able to kill dark beasts at 90 slayer.

Would you argue that these quest should only give xp reward?

 

Quests are easily completed and can be completed easily by anyone. However, if enough people had a problem with it, then I wouldn't have had a problem with having them accessible to everyone with the level.

 

Firecape doesn't need to be the only reward, but it shouldn't be tied to any skills either. It is one of (if not the?) best capes in the game, I'd say that's a pretty damn good reward

 

Why do strykewyrms need a fire cape req?

[Kiriyama]

Den, technically speaking, nothing got nerfed. Wyrms are just as easy/hard as they ever were. This only opened up the amount of people that can fight them. Also, the +4 damage is on the player, not the monster, so while you can kill them easier, they aren't easier to kill as a whole, just on your end. And for people without a cape ,they are harder to kill, if only slightly because of their max hit.

 

Again, the compromise isn't the issue here. It's the reason why it came about, something I'd like to see acknowledged.

 

Fair enough, and true.

Im just mad because they gave in, its my whole issue here.

As long as they keep giving in, the ranting wont stop. It proves that whining about something long enough will eventualy get it that way, as long as it doesnt have anything to do with RWTing.

 

I wish they would just leave content how it was added and not change it a week or two later.

 

Why?

 

By your logic, all the bugs should remain in updates, perhaps it sounded reasonable at first, however, player response plays a big part in updates.

 

It goes to show the more were complaining about the requirement, and Jagex saw it suitable to make alterations based on player feedback.

[Lep]

Everyone supporting the Firecape requirement should really just stfu. An optionable minigame reward should NOT be a requirement for a skill, and that's the bottom line. Especially a minigame that's existed for (four?) years. If this monster was released with no Firecape requirement, everyone would be fine with it. If someone suggested the Firecape should be required, everyone would laugh their [wagon] off and find a way to throw rotten tomatoes at them in game.

 

How about we make it so 93 Slayer is required to use the Firecape? Sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

[ArtemisCatal]

It still amazes me that some players are still clutching at straws. Like Dragonlordjl said, Runescape is the only game that has players who actually WANT the developers to dumb down the system requirements of their game. No other gaming company does that or has that problem. Maybe this is why players of other MMO's find Runescape to be an absolute joke. In this case, I would definitely agree with them.

 

"Hey man, you play WOW?!"

 

"Yeah, what's up."

 

"So there's this boss monster that gives me about a second to react to his attacks, and all I have to do is click this little symbol. I had to kill this monster to access some high-level content, but now I totally don't have to!!!!!1!"

 

"... WOW BRO I WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT EITHER. BRB GONNA GO RAID FOR TEN HOURS. I PLAY A WARRIOR BTW, LOL"

 

 

All I can say is, what you see as a deficit in the game, I see as one of the greatest features about Runescape. If they think it's a joke, fine, let them. There is no requirment to like RS, Just as there is no requirement to like WOW. You like the game you like, you like the playing style you like. But what I am saying is you shouldn't play Runescape thinking its going to become some cutting edge game. There NEEDS to be a game out there that isn't cutting edge for all the people that can't do cutting edge. There needs to be a slower-paced game for people who want to play without being on the edge of their seats all the time.

 

RS has a different development philosophy than those "cutting edge" games. It has a different game dynamic. If you want a that kind of game play, go play *that* type of game, and stop trying to change a game that isn't like that.

[Den]

I liked Libs' suggestion on the previous page.

 

Have the wyrms be killed with 93 slayer, but say no damage dealt to them would exceed 30 without the fire cape.

With fire cape, damage over 30 would be possible aswell as having the +4 damage (same as ferocious ring) and boosting fire magic like what happens now.

 

The task would also need to be bought from a slayer master for like 1000 points. Anyone with 93 slayer should have that much. This would be like the slayer master telling you the secret to killing them without a fire cape.

(Like how slayer masters teach you the secret of making slayer masks)

 

Id settle for that to be honest.

[joker2022]

Everyone supporting the Firecape requirement should really just stfu. An optionable minigame reward should NOT be a requirement for a skill, and that's the bottom line. Especially a minigame that's existed for (four?) years. If this monster was released with no Firecape requirement, everyone would be fine with it. If someone suggested the Firecape should be required, everyone would laugh their [wagon] off and find a way to throw rotten tomatoes at them in game.

 

How about we make it so 93 Slayer is required to use the Firecape? Sounds reasonable, doesn't it?

 

 

 

I LOVE THIS IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!

 

YOU MUST BE 93 SLAYER TO USE A FIRECAPE!!!!!!

 

 

AWSOME!@#!@!!@!@!@$@$

[jettrider]

I don't understand why the same people aren't complaining about dying to the higher level slayer monsters when they disconnect. Same concept, really. You don't even need to have the greatest connection in the world to beat Jad, and chances are if your connection is that serious of a problem during the Fight Caves then you'll have died a couple times from disconnects (at least before they made the game SafeScape). Heaven forbid that a monster at level 93 slayer might be hard to kill (in this case, you must only defeat one hard monster to kill them easily for eternity).

 

There are 37,412 people with a high enough Slayer level to kill Ice Strykewyrms. I cannot find anything wrong with Jagex wanting to cut down that number.

 

As for a compromise, these monsters NEED to remain killable only on task. I guess I would support accepting a firemaking skillcape as a substitute, seeing as it is a boring, if quick, alternative. Other than that, if you can kill them on task with a bought ability, damage dealt without a firecape should be hugely cut down - maybe killing them half as fast as those with a fire cape. That way you can still fight them for your precious staves but it will not be efficient.

 

Your wrong. It's only 17k people. Of those that still play, probably 12k or so.

 

Wild pies.

 

Pie up right as you're about to get a task. Then pie up again to kill them. Also doable with only 87 slayer but that would be impractical stewing.

If you think this is insignificant, you weren't around to see all the whip drops when wild pies first came out. Especially if this thing keeps going up in street price, expect an influx.

 

Let's not make up numbers, by the way - I'd be more of the opinion that most high level slayers are active, especially with a rare and expensive new drop.

[Rien]

Den, technically speaking, nothing got nerfed. Wyrms are just as easy/hard as they ever were. This only opened up the amount of people that can fight them. Also, the +4 damage is on the player, not the monster, so while you can kill them easier, they aren't easier to kill as a whole, just on your end. And for people without a cape ,they are harder to kill, if only slightly because of their max hit.

 

Again, the compromise isn't the issue here. It's the reason why it came about, something I'd like to see acknowledged.

 

Fair enough, and true.

Im just mad because they gave in, its my whole issue here.

As long as they keep giving in, the ranting wont stop. It proves that whining about something long enough will eventualy get it that way, as long as it doesnt have anything to do with RWTing.

 

I wish they would just leave content how it was added and not change it a week or two later.

I feel the same way.

 

I don't have a problem with the compromise, but it worries me that Jagex caved on the issue so easily. I fear that it'll only become easier for them to continue to do so in the future. By giving in, they encourage disgruntled players to complain all the more; ranting about 'elite' content/updates has been proven to be effective, and so it'll now become progressively more troublesome over time. :mellow:

[Dragonlordjl]

From a personal level (and honestly that's all I care about) it has nothing to do with my internet connection.

 

My issue is one of reflexative ability. Now, I don't know if I've ever mentioned it to anyone, but I have moderateCharcot Marie Tooth Disease in my wrists and fingers. I can't do Fight Caves. I can't do Nomad. I can't do GWD. I have the timing, but for very short periods before my fingers get tired. I can pretty easily avoid the digging of the Wyrms, because I've done the lower end ones.

 

Now let someone tell me with a straight face tell me that I shouldn't be able to use them because I don't have the cape. Look, you have a Fire Cape and you have an advantage. Use it. Make it worthwhile. i won't be able to. Do you hear me crying over it? Hell no.

 

Oh, and if it's a "slap in the face to Fire Cape holders" you know what I say? Screw your Fire Cape. Screw your Fight Caves. When I get the level to kill them, I will and I won't for one second think about that stupid little animated cape. :evil:

 

And Dragon, you're right. It's a neglible amount of people. Makes you wonder what everyone is arguing about. No one is really arguing over points, we're just arguing.

 

It's all because Jagex lacked the foresight to see what kind of mess they'd create by making an update with such a requirement. If they done the "compromise" as the initial update, no one would be complaining. But because they went back and changed something that added prestige to a high-level task, many people feel like they're getting ripped off. That's where the arguing comes from.

[joker2022]

Den, technically speaking, nothing got nerfed. Wyrms are just as easy/hard as they ever were. This only opened up the amount of people that can fight them. Also, the +4 damage is on the player, not the monster, so while you can kill them easier, they aren't easier to kill as a whole, just on your end. And for people without a cape ,they are harder to kill, if only slightly because of their max hit.

 

Again, the compromise isn't the issue here. It's the reason why it came about, something I'd like to see acknowledged.

 

Fair enough, and true.

Im just mad because they gave in, its my whole issue here.

As long as they keep giving in, the ranting wont stop. It proves that whining about something long enough will eventualy get it that way, as long as it doesnt have anything to do with RWTing.

 

I wish they would just leave content how it was added and not change it a week or two later.

I feel the same way.

 

I don't have a problem with the compromise, but it worries me that Jagex caved on the issue so easily. I fear that it'll only become easier for them to continue to do so in the future. By giving in, they encourage disgruntled players to complain all the more; ranting about 'elite' content/updates has been proven to be effective, and so it'll now become progressively more troublesome over time. :mellow:

 

Your comparing apples to oranges.

 

Gamers idenified a problem. Jagex took action and corrected it.

 

They listen to the people that pay their salary.

 

I can see how the 2 or 3 thousand firecapes would be mad, but that is selfishness and unfair. Getting to 93 slayer is an enourmous task itself.

 

Otherwise, raise the level to 95 or 99, then no one will complain on either side of this issue.

 

 

BTW... only about 17k people have 93 slayer or above. That is accurate as of today from the highscores board on rs.

 

 

 

.

[Den]

I wish they would just leave content how it was added and not change it a week or two later.

 

Why?

 

By your logic, all the bugs should remain in updates, perhaps it sounded reasonable at first, however, player response plays a big part in updates.

 

It goes to show the more were complaining about the requirement, and Jagex saw it suitable to make alterations based on player feedback.

 

Just forget I said that line. I ment the whole caving in thing which:

 

I feel the same way.

 

I don't have a problem with the compromise, but it worries me that Jagex caved on the issue so easily. I fear that it'll only become easier for them to continue to do so in the future. By giving in, they encourage disgruntled players to complain all the more; ranting about 'elite' content/updates has been proven to be effective, and so it'll now become progressively more troublesome over time. :mellow:

 

Rien summed up.

[Obtaurian]

I liked Libs' suggestion on the previous page.

 

Have the wyrms be killed with 93 slayer, but say no damage dealt to them would exceed 30 without the fire cape.

With fire cape, damage over 30 would be possible aswell as having the +4 damage (same as ferocious ring) and boosting fire magic like what happens now.

 

The task would also need to be bought from a slayer master for like 1000 points. Anyone with 93 slayer should have that much. This would be like the slayer master telling you the secret to killing them without a fire cape.

(Like how slayer masters teach you the secret of making slayer masks)

 

Id settle for that to be honest.

 

I, too, would settle for that. It's almost more practical to use a SW cape than a fire cape now.