3rd Age/Spirit shields/Phats Discussion

[ThePeoplesNo0b]

Enough with the insults and off-topic discussions you guys. Remember that flaming and personal attacks are against the rules. So let's stop picking apart peoples' grammar and get back to discussing the topic at hand :P

 

 

You need to calm down. E-rage is detrimental to your health.

[Star_Fox]

today i would keep the santa over a mask. after another update or two on masks i would consider picking one or two of them up.

 

you could acquire a partyhat, yes. but it will take far more than even a couple mask sets after they rebound. it will be very hard to do as f2p, since you basically will need to snipe one (you can't take any junk).

 

 

Thanks for the advice! :thumbsup: That's sort of how I felt but I just wasn't sure. (And I'll try to do a better job next time at detecting sarcasm :oops: )

 

 

Sniping is so futile that even thinking about it is a waste of time. You're looking at tens of thousands of competing buyers awaiting to get their hands on each and every color. If you don't have the means to buy one now, save up. Quick.

 

Also, LOL @ the petty arguments above.

[Numismaster]

Sniping is so futile that even thinking about it is a waste of time.

 

Perhaps. But if everyone believed that then I wouldn't have any trouble buying my partyhat from the ge. ;) So then every reasonable person who decides that sniping a partyhat is impossible corresponds to one less person to compete with me. :thumbup:

[Bladewing]

snipebots

 

that is why it is hard to snipe from the ge

[Star_Fox]

It's hilarious how people always blame bots everytime something goes wrong.

 

I personally think the vast majority of buyers are to blame. Bots are so minimal because

of Jagex's strict surveillance on detecting macros.

[Sir_Kurity]

It's hilarious how people always blame bots everytime something goes wrong.

 

Actually its true, snipe bots manage to put offers in that are a split second after the GE updates, a player can't hope to compete unless hes staring unblinkingly at the screen for 3 hours in the hopes of a GE update.

 

This isnt just an indirect "Bots are making yews cheap as [cabbage]", this is a direct, bot is in competition with you, the bot can and will win because bots have no limits on reflexes or perseverance, humans do.

 

Its simple logic, in a snipe war, the bot will win. Even a single bot versing 1000 human players, the bot will win, if theres only one party hat to go around, it will go to the bot.

 

I personally think the vast majority of buyers are to blame. Bots are so minimal because

of Jagex's strict surveillance on detecting macros.

 

Have you ever done some GE Sniping before?

 

Its pretty much just moving the screen every now and then to make sure you don't logout while you wait for the update beep (or if your insane, staring at the screen and waiting for that hourglass), its very hard for jagex to differentiate between legitimate snipers and botsnipers.

[TheAncient]

It's hilarious how people always blame bots everytime something goes wrong.

 

I personally think the vast majority of buyers are to blame. Bots are so minimal because

of Jagex's strict surveillance on detecting macros.

 

Jagex doesn't really care about macros - it's more profitable, actually, to let most of them live.

[Numismaster]

I decided to check out some cheating websites to see what kind of snipebots are available (to better understand what I am up against).

 

Interestingly, although snipebots can place orders for items at superhuman speeds, they are not infallible and often struggle to successfully snipe stuff because of the mechanics of the Grand Exchange. Some of the complaints from cheaters include:

 

--- Not all items update at the same time.

--- Not all of the worlds update at the same time.

--- Leaving the buying window open for too long causes it to not show a GE update when it happens.

 

If these claims are true, I would argue that the dedicated (human) sniper has a significant chance (albeit based on luck) of getting something if he/she tries enough (assuming that items update randomly at random times on random worlds). It's like going to a giant drop party at the Falador party room. When and where the balloons appear are random, and if you are fortunate enough to pop a balloon the prize inside is randomly chosen from the items in the chest (or lack thereof). With enough tries, you are almost guaranteed to get something good from a drop party (I speak from experience as a party room bum :P ).

 

So 'potentially' I could be in the right world at the right time to be among the first to see that magical moment when the price of a particular rare updates (while all the other merchants, hoarders, wealthy players, snipebots, and random noobs on other worlds miss out during those critical early seconds/minutes as the GE update propagates throughout the system).

 

Then again these assumptions could be wrong and thus my conclusions would be totally off.

 

 

NOTE: I do not approve, support, or promote the use of snipebots or cheating websites. My research and subsequent post were simply to educate myself and contribute to the discussion of rare item circulation through the Grand Exchange.

[Assume Nothing]

I decided to check out some cheating websites to see what kind of snipebots are available (to better understand what I am up against).

 

Interestingly, although snipebots can place orders for items at superhuman speeds, they are not infallible and often struggle to successfully snipe stuff because of the mechanics of the Grand Exchange. Some of the complaints from cheaters include:

 

--- Not all items update at the same time.

--- Not all of the worlds update at the same time.

--- Leaving the buying window open for too long causes it to not show a GE update when it happens.

 

If these claims are true, I would argue that the dedicated (human) sniper has a significant chance (albeit based on luck) of getting something if he/she tries enough (assuming that items update randomly at random times on random worlds). It's like going to a giant drop party at the Falador party room. When and where the balloons appear are random, and if you are fortunate enough to pop a balloon the prize inside is randomly chosen from the items in the chest (or lack thereof). With enough tries, you are almost guaranteed to get something good from a drop party (I speak from experience as a party room bum :P ).

 

So 'potentially' I could be in the right world at the right time to be among the first to see that magical moment when the price of a particular rare updates (while all the other merchants, hoarders, wealthy players, snipebots, and random noobs on other worlds miss out during those critical early seconds/minutes as the GE update propagates throughout the system).

 

Then again these assumptions could be wrong and thus my conclusions would be totally off.

 

 

NOTE: I do not approve, support, or promote the use of snipebots or cheating websites. My research and subsequent post were simply to educate myself and contribute to the discussion of rare item circulation through the Grand Exchange.

 

Your argument relies on the assumption that Snipebots will be using the Grand Exchange website to put offers in. They actually use the hourglass, which is much, much quicker than the GE website.

 

Your third "point" I see no evidence of, therefore your reasoning is weak because it lacks reliability.

 

Also, you failed to propose a solution to the so called 'problem', which doesn't help either. There's a few main issues with the Grand Exchange;

 

The way GE prioritizes requests

The way GE updates

Price Floors and Ceilings (alchemy values, anyone?)

Max Cash

 

If the GE functioned perfectly, 'street values' won't even exist.

 

To Fix the GE;

 

Make the GE respond to Supply and Demand. Use the Supply/Demand ratio to update the GE; if there's 3 thousand buy offers for a Jug of Half Wine in the GE (at max), and only 1 sell offer (at max), make the Half Wine update.

 

The GE should also prioritize requests on time of offer, but everyone who 'snipes' the item within the first 'x' (uncertain of what 'x' should be) minutes would all have equal chance of getting the item. That would make it much fairer to anyone who legitimately try to purchase hard to buy products on the Grand Exchange.

 

Remove the Price Ceilings and Price Floors. Locking the prices is silly because it creates indefinite buyouts/junk for items that gets a shift in demand but has a price cap. Even without the price floors, the price will actually hover around the alchemy values in reality (because the supply/demand equilibrium would be above the alchemy value, because if it goes much lower than the alchemy value, demand shoots up due to profitable alchemy).

 

Last but not least, max cash. With Partyhats reaching ever more closely to the Max Cash figure on the GE, and it continuing to rise in price unless there is a massive outflow of pure GP in the economy, we should fix the Max Cash problem relatively soon. The game engine limitations exist, I acknowledge that. A simple solution would simply be to make a 'Super GP', that can only be used in the Grand Exchange.

 

You can use Spirit Shards directly as cash, only in the Grand Exchange. This would make it so that even if you store billions of coins in this form, it wouldn't be too easy to convert it back into coins again unless you have multiple friends willing to sacrifice alot of time.

 

I can see a few flaws with the proposed 'solutions' I have, but they can be overcome via simple updates. Hmm, it's midnight, I'll try and think of something better later.

 

On Topic; What's the main thing that people trade for partyhats now? Pumpkins, Easters, Disks, 3a?

[SixFootOne]

Not trolling, i don't even see the point in posting how the ge should be fixed You tell him his post isn't' helping but..

 

1) This is a thread following the trends and prices of various popular rs items

 

2) Posting a solution isn't going to get anything done, so that's not going to help either and doesn't pertain much to this thread

 

3) The poster was trying in put his input on the situation because people here have been asking about ge sniping, and thus ge sniping bots

 

4) He was also talking about bots that do so through the ge, not the website. That's why he mentioned the problems currently ge bots have.

 

As even for the bots that don't follow the website, it still has to watch ge. From my experiences sniping, all i did was hit the arrow button on my offer to refresh the ge and clicked back on my offer until it changed, and i saw that instant change. The hour glass DID NOT appear unless i refreshed my ge screen. I did a test where my wife and i sat next to each other on our computers. I constantly refreshed my page. All she did was stay logged in and watched her ge. After i refreshed my screen the hourglass showed, hers did not show until she refreshed after seeing that mine changed and hers did not(we had the exact same offers in for everything).

 

I never had a problem sniping anything anyway. I snipped myself full dragon (or), and a fury kit. Yes i know other items such as partyhats are not as easy, but i still see people having a hard time getting items i have. So overall i still see the biggest problem being other snipers. Ge bot snipes of course happen but i still have yet to see a bot that can FIND OUT THE GE UPDATED as fast as a person. Yes they can put offers in faster than anyone, but there is a lag for them to determine when the ge updated. From using different ge update websites myself, i often had all 6 ge offers in 30 seconds before the website would even say the ge updated.

 

Of course if someone would like to post evidence that a bot can DETECT ge update faster then a person i would be willing to believe that. But as of now all i have found are bots that are overall slower then a dedicated person.

 

 

 

Partyhats trades often involve high street items (fury kits, although they are dropping), pumpkins, disks, divines, and of course other partyhats.

[Assume Nothing]

Not trolling, i don't even see the point in posting how the ge should be fixed You tell him his post isn't' helping but..

 

1) This is a thread following the trends and prices of various popular rs items

 

2) Posting a solution isn't going to get anything done, so that's not going to help either and doesn't pertain much to this thread

 

3) The poster was trying in put his input on the situation because people here have been asking about ge sniping, and thus ge sniping bots

 

4) He was also talking about bots that do so through the ge, not the website. That's why he mentioned the problems currently ge bots have.

 

As even for the bots that don't follow the website, it still has to watch ge. From my experiences sniping, all i did was hit the arrow button on my offer to refresh the ge and clicked back on my offer until it changed, and i saw that instant change. The hour glass DID NOT appear unless i refreshed my ge screen. I did a test where my wife and i sat next to each other on our computers. I constantly refreshed my page. All she did was stay logged in and watched her ge. After i refreshed my screen the hourglass showed, hers did not show until she refreshed after seeing that mine changed and hers did not(we had the exact same offers in for everything).

 

I never had a problem sniping anything anyway. I snipped myself full dragon (or), and a fury kit. Yes i know other items such as partyhats are not as easy, but i still see people having a hard time getting items i have. So overall i still see the biggest problem being other snipers. Ge bot snipes of course happen but i still have yet to see a bot that can FIND OUT THE GE UPDATED as fast as a person. Yes they can put offers in faster than anyone, but there is a lag for them to determine when the ge updated. From using different ge update websites myself, i often had all 6 ge offers in 30 seconds before the website would even say the ge updated.

 

Of course if someone would like to post evidence that a bot can DETECT ge update faster then a person i would be willing to believe that. But as of now all i have found are bots that are overall slower then a dedicated person.

 

 

 

Partyhats trades often involve high street items (fury kits, although they are dropping), pumpkins, disks, divines, and of course other partyhats.

 

I know what the thread is about, the 'solution' part is for the sake of consistency, because I criticized him for not proposing a 'solution'.

 

One thing I'm curious about; What you mean by 'refreshing' the offer. Do you refresh the entire RuneScape Screen, or press an arrow key, or click on an arrow key on the actual GE interface?

[bedman]

I've had a friend who has sniped 2 phats so far, so it's definitely possible (he did this during summer vacation)

[DyingSilent]

 

One thing I'm curious about; What you mean by 'refreshing' the offer. Do you refresh the entire RuneScape Screen, or press an arrow key, or click on an arrow key on the actual GE interface?

 

If you keep clicking on the max price arrow, it will change as soon as the Grand Exchange updates, assuming you constantly click on it. This is very tedious, and requires quite a bit of attention, since there is so much clicking, and the update is for the most part, unpredictable.

[SixFootOne]

 

I know what the thread is about, the 'solution' part is for the sake of consistency, because I criticized him for not proposing a 'solution'.

 

One thing I'm curious about; What you mean by 'refreshing' the offer. Do you refresh the entire RuneScape Screen, or press an arrow key, or click on an arrow key on the actual GE interface?

 

 

Ok i understand. By refreshing i mean click the back arrow on the offer screen to go back to the main ge page.

 

 

Have 2 offers in the ge, one have an offer for min for an item you know will rise. Next put an offer for max for the item you are trying to snipe

 

Every time you "refresh" you are going back and forth between the two pages. Every time you do so look for an hourglass, as well as seeing if the max price went up. Hopefully the picture helps.

 

[glasscube]

Of course if someone would like to post evidence that a bot can DETECT ge update faster then a person i would be willing to believe that. But as of now all i have found are bots that are overall slower then a dedicated person.

It takes around 1/100th? of a ms to detect one pixel. If you think your reaction time is better then that then prove me wrong.

 

Opening and closing the GE screen is trivial.

[DyingSilent]

 

I know what the thread is about, the 'solution' part is for the sake of consistency, because I criticized him for not proposing a 'solution'.

 

One thing I'm curious about; What you mean by 'refreshing' the offer. Do you refresh the entire RuneScape Screen, or press an arrow key, or click on an arrow key on the actual GE interface?

 

 

Ok i understand. By refreshing i mean click the back arrow on the offer screen to go back to the main ge page.

 

 

Have 2 offers in the ge, one have an offer for min for an item you know will rise. Next put an offer for max for the item you are trying to snipe

 

Every time you "refresh" you are going back and forth between the two pages. Every time you do so look for an hourglass, as well as seeing if the max price went up. Hopefully the picture helps.

 

 

The problem with this method is, once the ge updates, you will have to go through the process of putting in another offer completely. If you keep clicking the maximum price arrow, you can use the offer you already have, just hit confirm once you notice the update.

[SixFootOne]

The problem with this method is, once the ge updates, you will have to go through the process of putting in another offer completely. If you keep clicking the maximum price arrow, you can use the offer you already have, just hit confirm once you notice the update.

 

I don't put another offer in, i just keep clicking on my original offer and when i see that my offer that was max, that is no longer max, i click max again.

 

So are you saying i can just sit on my offer, and hit the max arrow without having to go back to the main ge page?

Because if so... #-o Wow thanks i didn't know that.

 

 

Glasscube i was just browsing varies forums and seeing people complain they were still faster then their bots (ones that rely on ge not the website). If they can detect it that fast i am not arguing anyone can beat that :-D . I guess i just didn't find many people praising them.

[Sir_Kurity]

I decided to check out some cheating websites to see what kind of snipebots are available (to better understand what I am up against).

 

Interestingly, although snipebots can place orders for items at superhuman speeds, they are not infallible and often struggle to successfully snipe stuff because of the mechanics of the Grand Exchange. Some of the complaints from cheaters include:

 

--- Not all items update at the same time.

--- Not all of the worlds update at the same time.

--- Leaving the buying window open for too long causes it to not show a GE update when it happens.

 

If these claims are true, I would argue that the dedicated (human) sniper has a significant chance (albeit based on luck) of getting something if he/she tries enough (assuming that items update randomly at random times on random worlds). It's like going to a giant drop party at the Falador party room. When and where the balloons appear are random, and if you are fortunate enough to pop a balloon the prize inside is randomly chosen from the items in the chest (or lack thereof). With enough tries, you are almost guaranteed to get something good from a drop party (I speak from experience as a party room bum :P ).

 

So 'potentially' I could be in the right world at the right time to be among the first to see that magical moment when the price of a particular rare updates (while all the other merchants, hoarders, wealthy players, snipebots, and random noobs on other worlds miss out during those critical early seconds/minutes as the GE update propagates throughout the system).

 

Then again these assumptions could be wrong and thus my conclusions would be totally off.

 

 

NOTE: I do not approve, support, or promote the use of snipebots or cheating websites. My research and subsequent post were simply to educate myself and contribute to the discussion of rare item circulation through the Grand Exchange.

 

Even assuming the worlds are all updated at the same time. The bots can do it for longer than you can. I don't hate myself enough to go for a GE snipe more than once a week for example, a bot can be on every day for a month without problem and has a much higher chance than you.

[DyingSilent]

I don't put another offer in, i just keep clicking on my original offer and when i see that my offer that was max, that is no longer max, i click max again.

 

So are you saying i can just sit on my offer, and hit the max arrow without having to go back to the main ge page?

Because if so... #-o Wow thanks i didn't know that.

 

 

Yes, here is a picture of what I was doing a while back.

 

Continuously click on max price button, and when update comes, the price will change on that screen, so you don't have to switch screens. After that, click confirm. Presto, offer in 1-2 seconds after update (if you're paying attention...this gets verrrrrrrrry boring after about 10 minutes). As I mentioned before, it's very tedious to click about every 3 seconds, for up to X amount of hours. This is where bots get the upper hand. Assuming they use this method, they don't "get bored." That's why snipebots take so many snipes.

 

Anyway, since it's so time consuming and tedious to continuously click, that's why I generally only try and snipe when I notice that it's been a long time since an update. Irc bots like RuneScript and Vectra tell you how long it's been since the last update, and how much time remains before an update must occur. If the update must occur within 3 hours or so, it's worth it to sit at ge for a while and go for the snipe. The only downside of this method is that since the last update took so long, the next update will be very short. One snipe I attempted, the last update was 44 hours, and the next update was 6 hours later. A lot less volume is traded in 6 hours than in 44 hours, which lowered my snipe chances drastically.

 

Note: I didn't get either of those kits in the pic. Camped for ~4 hours that day, and the update conveniently happened while I was using the bathroom. :wall:

[jettrider]

Of course if someone would like to post evidence that a bot can DETECT ge update faster then a person i would be willing to believe that. But as of now all i have found are bots that are overall slower then a dedicated person.

It takes around 1/100th? of a ms to detect one pixel. If you think your reaction time is better then that then prove me wrong.

 

All you have to do is be within .6 seconds.

[glasscube]

Of course if someone would like to post evidence that a bot can DETECT ge update faster then a person i would be willing to believe that. But as of now all i have found are bots that are overall slower then a dedicated person.

It takes around 1/100th? of a ms to detect one pixel. If you think your reaction time is better then that then prove me wrong.

 

All you have to do is be within .6 seconds.

My point is no human will be able to beat a computer in a test of reactions, and flawlessly moving the mouse to the confirm button in 1/20th of a second. Not only that, bots do not tire. Anyone who has camped the GE for an update knows how tedious it is.

[Sir_Kurity]

Of course if someone would like to post evidence that a bot can DETECT ge update faster then a person i would be willing to believe that. But as of now all i have found are bots that are overall slower then a dedicated person.

It takes around 1/100th? of a ms to detect one pixel. If you think your reaction time is better then that then prove me wrong.

 

All you have to do is be within .6 seconds.

My point is no human will be able to beat a computer in a test of reactions, and flawlessly moving the mouse to the confirm button in 1/20th of a second. Not only that, bots do not tire. Anyone who has camped the GE for an update knows how tedious it is.

Yea, doing the method above pretty much isnt possible for more than a few hours without falling into insanity, especially if your concentrating at the same time. Only if your deciding to snipe by using an update notifier can you hope to compete with a bot in terms of how long they can camp. And even then theres bathroom breaks and the like, plus GE update notifiers aren't perfect so it wouldn't even work for things like phats.

[sunnynice]

Of course if someone would like to post evidence that a bot can DETECT ge update faster then a person i would be willing to believe that. But as of now all i have found are bots that are overall slower then a dedicated person.

It takes around 1/100th? of a ms to detect one pixel. If you think your reaction time is better then that then prove me wrong.

 

All you have to do is be within .6 seconds.

My point is no human will be able to beat a computer in a test of reactions, and flawlessly moving the mouse to the confirm button in 1/20th of a second. Not only that, bots do not tire. Anyone who has camped the GE for an update knows how tedious it is.

Yea, doing the method above pretty much isnt possible for more than a few hours without falling into insanity, especially if your concentrating at the same time. Only if your deciding to snipe by using an update notifier can you hope to compete with a bot in terms of how long they can camp. And even then theres bathroom breaks and the like, plus GE update notifiers aren't perfect so it wouldn't even work for things like phats.

Are u sure for that??

[Triquos]

I do believe there must be something sinister going on in terms of some sort of bot sniping thing. Personally, I have tried many times to obtain a fury kit via the g.e. staying up very late and once getting in an offer about 9 seconds after it updated - which I thought was pretty good odds by my standards, and was expecting a fury kit later that day, but even that couldn't get me a fury kit!

 

I blame bots ';....;'

[Assume Nothing]

I do believe there must be something sinister going on in terms of some sort of bot sniping thing. Personally, I have tried many times to obtain a fury kit via the g.e. staying up very late and once getting in an offer about 9 seconds after it updated - which I thought was pretty good odds by my standards, and was expecting a fury kit later that day, but even that couldn't get me a fury kit!

 

I blame bots ';....;'

 

>Implying that the Bots don't actually exist.

 

Hahahaohwow.jpg

 

Have you been to GE recently, and seen the 'bot forums' at all?