3rd Age/Spirit shields/Phats Discussion

[999134]

Made 10mil flipping 6 dfs's :).

Anyone gonna answer my question about cracker?

[xpx]

Made 10mil flipping 6 dfs's :).

Anyone gonna answer my question about cracker?

How would anyone realistically know this if jagex hasn't explicitly said anything about it(and they don't give us any important information on the ge)? Likely, as it seems to be true for partyhats, there doesn't at all need to be sales trough the ge for an item to update- offers active in the ge are enough, though how many and how long they need to be in there, nobody knows, and the numbers for it to update are likely very different for these items.

[Krampell]

ely will not nearly be as useful now i think.

 

Yeah me too. With so much dmg soaking possibilities, everything that mattered to elys and divines will all be forgotten.

 

Meh, they will either be increased, or still be the best damage soaking shields by quite a long shot.

 

Of course, they will still have the disadvantage of prayer drain, at least div will.

 

There used to be a great thread on the RSOF that proved mathematically that the divine's prayer drain is negligible. The only difference is a couple extra prayer potions (depending on what you're doing, of course).

 

My guess is that Elysians will be severely affected and Divines will be pretty safe, UNLESS both shields gain further damage reduction, which is possible.

 

Lets not forget.

Only Divine and Elysian work if you get hit under 200.

All other soaking damage that is going to be released only works if you get hit over 200, like with the dungeoneering shields.

[Yay0siris]

Made 10mil flipping 6 dfs's :).

Anyone gonna answer my question about cracker?

How would anyone realistically know this if jagex hasn't explicitly said anything about it(and they don't give us any important information on the ge)? Likely, as it seems to be true for partyhats, there doesn't at all need to be sales trough the ge for an item to update- offers active in the ge are enough, though how many and how long they need to be in there, nobody knows, and the numbers for it to update are likely very different for these items.

Anyone else have difficulties trying to decipher what this person said?

[Quyneax]

Made 10mil flipping 6 dfs's :).

Anyone gonna answer my question about cracker?

How would anyone realistically know this if jagex hasn't explicitly said anything about it(and they don't give us any important information on the ge)? Likely, as it seems to be true for partyhats, there doesn't at all need to be sales trough the ge for an item to update- offers active in the ge are enough, though how many and how long they need to be in there, nobody knows, and the numbers for it to update are likely very different for these items.

Anyone else have difficulties trying to decipher what this person said?

No, perfectly clear to me.

[Blutters]

Made 10mil flipping 6 dfs's :).

Anyone gonna answer my question about cracker?

How would anyone realistically know this if jagex hasn't explicitly said anything about it(and they don't give us any important information on the ge)? Likely, as it seems to be true for partyhats, there doesn't at all need to be sales trough the ge for an item to update- offers active in the ge are enough, though how many and how long they need to be in there, nobody knows, and the numbers for it to update are likely very different for these items.

Anyone else have difficulties trying to decipher what this person said?

No, perfectly clear to me.

He's mocking your ignorance for asking about a complicated issue. He's calling you an idiot for asking for help?

He perceived... Thought* that you were annoyed since you reiterated... asked your question again*, which is apparently... seems like* enough to get him annoyed.

Of course, since your're asking the question in the first place you probably don't know much about how the system works and you DON'T KNOW that JaGEx hasn't clarified it, but whatever, I've come to expect responses like his...

 

Simple English: Even though no one is trading them, crackers could change prices because of unfilled offers for them in the Grand Exchange, but there is no sure proof of this.

[Sir_Kurity]

Lets not forget.

Only Divine and Elysian work if you get hit under 200.

All other soaking damage that is going to be released only works if you get hit over 200, like with the dungeoneering shields.

 

Oh yea.

 

Itil make claws alot more powerful again thats for sure, the AGS's of the world might be getting boned though.

 

I also don't really see this being helpful for typical monster hunting either, hardly any monsters hit over 200 and those that do you just pray against anyway.

[green9090]

AGS has been dead for a long time, this'll just be that last little push that makes idiots in BH stop using them. They're going to fully suck now.

[halo475]

Im considering buying an Elysian and getting something on the side with it, would this be a bad idea? As far as i can tell as someone has stated, for pvm the soaking update will be close to useless as most monsters that hit over 200 you pray for anyway.

 

And its possible jagex might make the ely better anyway to compensate for it becoming less useful in relative to other shields.

 

So good idea or?

[green9090]

Im considering buying an Elysian and getting something on the side with it, would this be a bad idea? As far as i can tell as someone has stated, for pvm the soaking update will be close to useless as most monsters that hit over 200 you pray for anyway.

 

And its possible jagex might make the ely better anyway to compensate for it becoming less useful in relative to other shields.

 

So good idea or?

I'd do it if I had the spare cash and nothing better to do with it, but I'd then sell it as soon as it hits max on the GE again (which it's pretty much guaranteed to do in the next few weeks). Ely was shaky before this BTS came out, and it's been long overdue for settling in the GE price. That'll happen regardless of how the soaking update turns out for Ely and Divine.

[Sir_Kurity]

AGS has been dead for a long time, this'll just be that last little push that makes idiots in BH stop using them. They're going to fully suck now.

 

I sorta meant all the single high hitters are getting a nerf.

 

Ags, korasis (i hope this thing gets nerfed bad), d'bolts, obby maul, etc.

[green9090]

Lol, ironically enough, Korasi will probably just become even better, comparatively. Presumably full rune/barrows/bandos won't get a magic damage soak, so it's either switch to d'hide or take the full force of Korasi specs.

[xpx]

Lol, ironically enough, Korasi will probably just become even better, comparatively. Presumably full rune/barrows/bandos won't get a magic damage soak, so it's either switch to d'hide or take the full force of Korasi specs.

I don't think we have 100% confirmation about the spec being 100% magic based so there is still a good chance melee soak will reduce it. Other than that, only mage armor will have significant melee soak and claws are affected very little by this update, so i don't think KS spec will be much better, if at all. AGS spec will be much worse, that's for sure.

[green9090]

Lol, ironically enough, Korasi will probably just become even better, comparatively. Presumably full rune/barrows/bandos won't get a magic damage soak, so it's either switch to d'hide or take the full force of Korasi specs.

I don't think we have 100% confirmation about the spec being 100% magic based so there is still a good chance melee soak will reduce it. Other than that, only mage armor will have significant melee soak and claws are affected very little by this update, so i don't think KS spec will be much better, if at all. AGS spec will be much worse, that's for sure.

We absolutely know it's 100% magic based.

 

It gives magic exp.

It doesn't hit TDs praying mage, and does hit TDs praying melee.

It does no damage to cyclopes (who have a 100% immunity to ranged and magic).

It's reduced by magic prayer and farseer/eagle eye shields.

 

What else do you want?

[Blutters]

Lol, ironically enough, Korasi will probably just become even better, comparatively. Presumably full rune/barrows/bandos won't get a magic damage soak, so it's either switch to d'hide or take the full force of Korasi specs.

I don't think we have 100% confirmation about the spec being 100% magic based so there is still a good chance melee soak will reduce it. Other than that, only mage armor will have significant melee soak and claws are affected very little by this update, so i don't think KS spec will be much better, if at all. AGS spec will be much worse, that's for sure.

If they do something particularly silly, like base soaking on worn defenses, as I believe The Ancient predicted (at least for melee), Magic armor melee Defense soak will be lower than melee armor...

 

Off this topic: Just tried to buy Dragon Platelegs/Plateskirt Kit (SP) at max and it didn't come in instantly, lol. I thought they were in a never-ending crash...

*Not even 30 minutes later.

[xpx]

Lol, ironically enough, Korasi will probably just become even better, comparatively. Presumably full rune/barrows/bandos won't get a magic damage soak, so it's either switch to d'hide or take the full force of Korasi specs.

I don't think we have 100% confirmation about the spec being 100% magic based so there is still a good chance melee soak will reduce it. Other than that, only mage armor will have significant melee soak and claws are affected very little by this update, so i don't think KS spec will be much better, if at all. AGS spec will be much worse, that's for sure.

We absolutely know it's 100% magic based.

 

It gives magic exp.

It doesn't hit TDs praying mage, and does hit TDs praying melee.

It does no damage to cyclopes (who have a 100% immunity to ranged and magic).

It's reduced by magic prayer and farseer/eagle eye shields.

 

What else do you want?

I think it also gives melee xp, so that's one you missed. Apart from that, it's damage is still based upon melee str/str bonuses, thus melee soak might still work on it. Apart from that, if it's true that melee soak(for example, on the farseer shield) has no effect on it, you are likely right, but i haven't seen that information yet.

[MightyMuddy]

Would investing in armous like bandos and Armydal be worthwhile? Just untill they get the damage soak update.

[green9090]

I think it also gives melee xp, so that's one you missed. Apart from that, it's damage is still based upon melee str/str bonuses, thus melee soak might still work on it. Apart from that, if it's true that melee soak(for example, on the farseer shield) has no effect on it, you are likely right, but i haven't seen that information yet.

So really what you're saying here is that you know nothing about Korasi's sword, so you're going to make stuff up that contradicts me?

 

Yeah, chaotic kite doesn't soak it according to a couple people I've asked about it, whereas eagle/farseer do. I'm also like 99% sure it doesn't give anything but mage and hp exp.

 

It is a MAGIC ATTACK in all ways that matter for combat.

 

Edit: to the above post, no, because all armor is getting updated at the same time. It's unlikely that any armor will rise because they'll all be about where they already were relative to each other.

[Sir_Kurity]

Lol, ironically enough, Korasi will probably just become even better, comparatively. Presumably full rune/barrows/bandos won't get a magic damage soak, so it's either switch to d'hide or take the full force of Korasi specs.

 

At least itil actually have a counter in the form of d'hide though. As opposed to armor literally not effecting it at all.

 

Itil help out the range tanks that for sure, while the typical melee pkers will have access to there own korasi sword anyway.

[Hammertime]

Lol, ironically enough, Korasi will probably just become even better, comparatively. Presumably full rune/barrows/bandos won't get a magic damage soak, so it's either switch to d'hide or take the full force of Korasi specs.

 

Has anyone considered that this could be a way to affect the balance of the combat triangle by amplifying certain weaknesses if jagex decide to give no soak to a particular armor's weakness?

[xpx]

So really what you're saying here is that you know nothing about Korasi's sword, so you're going to make stuff up that contradicts me?

Making stuff up? I haven't said anything untrue without absolute certainty, I'm just questioning your judgment on something you too don't have absolute proof of. If the spec was 100% magic, it shouldn't use melee level/prayers and equipment strength in calculating damage, however, as it does, you can't really call it a 100% mage attack, thus there is still question weather or not melee or magic or both soaks work on it. As i haven't seen tests on weather farseer soaks 7 or 14 percent, it is still very much speculation, added to that that we are not certain soaking will remain exactly the same as it is on the chaotic shields- if jagex really wants to reduce overall damage, they might just add equal soaks against all classes.

[stonewall337]

So really what you're saying here is that you know nothing about Korasi's sword, so you're going to make stuff up that contradicts me?

Making stuff up? I haven't said anything untrue without absolute certainty, I'm just questioning your judgment on something you too don't have absolute proof of. If the spec was 100% magic, it shouldn't use melee level/prayers and equipment strength in calculating damage, however, as it does, you can't really call it a 100% mage attack, thus there is still question weather or not melee or magic or both soaks work on it. As i haven't seen tests on weather farseer soaks 7 or 14 percent, it is still very much speculation, added to that that we are not certain soaking will remain exactly the same as it is on the chaotic shields- if jagex really wants to reduce overall damage, they might just add equal soaks against all classes.

This is quite true, we have proof, but we can't be dogmatic on it. We can be fairly sure how many things work, and completely sure on how others, but without the exact formula, or a statement by Jagex (for what that is worth) We can't be sure.

[green9090]

So really what you're saying here is that you know nothing about Korasi's sword, so you're going to make stuff up that contradicts me?

Making stuff up? I haven't said anything untrue without absolute certainty, I'm just questioning your judgment on something you too don't have absolute proof of. If the spec was 100% magic, it shouldn't use melee level/prayers and equipment strength in calculating damage, however, as it does, you can't really call it a 100% mage attack, thus there is still question weather or not melee or magic or both soaks work on it. As i haven't seen tests on weather farseer soaks 7 or 14 percent, it is still very much speculation, added to that that we are not certain soaking will remain exactly the same as it is on the chaotic shields- if jagex really wants to reduce overall damage, they might just add equal soaks against all classes.

 

Yeah, chaotic kite doesn't soak it according to a couple people I've asked about it

 

If you want to get a guy with a chaotic kite so that YOU PERSONALLY can prove to yourself that it's pure magic as far as soaking is concerned, be my guest, but you're acting like this is something that there is no way for us to determine. We can, and people have.

[xpx]

 

If you want to get a guy with a chaotic kite so that YOU PERSONALLY can prove to yourself that it's pure magic as far as soaking is concerned, be my guest, but you're acting like this is something that there is no way for us to determine. We can, and people have.

Errm, actually there is no way to determine this until the update is launched, as we don't know how the damage soak will be distributed. Other than that, i'd still like to see soak percentages on farseer to be absolutely certain of your theory(and it is only a theory as you have no proof of melee armor having mage soak either). It's not as though this would be hard to test(the shields clearly show how much damage was soaked). Saying that there is 100% proof of the spec being 100% magic attach is also bogus as we don't know how jagex classifies these things, and, as mentioned, it still uses melee strength(which none of the other magic spells do).

[green9090]

 

If you want to get a guy with a chaotic kite so that YOU PERSONALLY can prove to yourself that it's pure magic as far as soaking is concerned, be my guest, but you're acting like this is something that there is no way for us to determine. We can, and people have.

Errm, actually there is no way to determine this until the update is launched, as we don't know how the damage soak will be distributed. Other than that, i'd still like to see soak percentages on farseer to be absolutely certain of your theory(and it is only a theory as you have no proof of melee armor having mage soak either). It's not as though this would be hard to test(the shields clearly show how much damage was soaked). Saying that there is 100% proof of the spec being 100% magic attach is also bogus as we don't know how jagex classifies these things, and, as mentioned, it still uses melee strength(which none of the other magic spells do).

What.

 

We have three items in the game, currently, with damage soaking on their interface. This is definitely the same one that will be used by other armor when the update comes out, or else it was added within a month of the soaking update being released as pure coincidence. Two of these items have magic soak, one does not. The one with no magic soak does not soak Korasi's special, the other two do. This PROVES, DEFINITIVELY, that Korasi's special is magic as far as the soaking is concerned. No further tests trying to determine the exact soak are necessary or relevant, because we already know for a fact that it is not ranged or melee (since chaotic kite does not soak), but can be soaked (since the other two do).

 

I agree that we don't know what armor stats will be like, and that is speculation. That's not what I'm claiming to be fact, at all. The facts are:

 

-Melee armor is supposed to be weak to magic.

-The melee dungeoneering kiteshield has no magic soak at all

-Korasi's special is magic

 

Draw your own conclusions from there, but mine are that people in melee armor will likely have a tough time with Korasi specs compared to other high damage specials after the update. Please stop clutching at straws, because it's really annoying having to repeat myself. You were wrong. Shock. Get over it.