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Tip.It Times - 25th July 2010


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#1
Racheya
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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me rather than posting them in the thread :)

Enjoy the articles!

Also, for more information on this week's DYK you may want to check out this thread.


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#2
lcchs
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I don't understand what reqium said about a effigy giving you 135k xp in rc. From experience you never get to choose any one skill more then one time.


#3
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I don't understand what reqium said about a effigy giving you 135k xp in rc. From experience you never get to choose any one skill more then one time.


Yeah, his/her logic is flawed. You would never get that much in one skill from one effigy. Also you have to be doing combat to get the effigy so it's not like you're adding that on to experience that you're already getting.

I did find the quest article interesting :D
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#4
Tenebri
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but in the long term it just leaves older, slower methods, to be abandoned and unused. Expectations for people to have high levels will rise, and Jagex may be forced to bring the level cap to 120 just to cater for all this.


they have already done something with this advanced gnome and barbarian, then that part wont be unused even thought gnome is for new players it will still have more use

in my opinion i think caps will rise to 120 i am thinking of getting 100m xp in cooking (66m xp off) so i can get before prices go nuts for a bit

I don't understand what reqium said about a effigy giving you 135k xp in rc. From experience you never get to choose any one skill more then one time.


neither do i tbh but yes that logic was a bit off, because you can use the same skill through all of them
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#5
Jonanananas
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I don't understand what reqium said about a effigy giving you 135k xp in rc. From experience you never get to choose any one skill more then one time.


Yeah, his/her logic is flawed. You would never get that much in one skill from one effigy. Also you have to be doing combat to get the effigy so it's not like you're adding that on to experience that you're already getting.

I did find the quest article interesting :D



Of course you will never get an effigy which requires runecrafting 4 times in a row(or can you? I'm not sure about that lol). Anyway, keep in mind you will probably get multiple effigies. Okay, that part of the article maybe wasn't worded the best way and leaves some side open for attacks, but you have to admit that it IS a lot of experience.



And the part about doing combat....Yeah, you're killing monsters. And you're getting Runecrafting XP for that. And Thieving XP. And Smithing XP. And Construction XP...
Need I go on? People who do combat, which has nothing to do with skilling get skilling XP. Why, o why?
Players were already battling Waterfiends, Dragons, Tormented Demons or whatever.
Why? Because they got money off it, or maybe charms. And now? They get some nice shiny XP as well, for the sole reason to satisfy some Members who only care about XP and not how they get these.


It's called a Distraction and Diversion. I ask you, what's distracting you here from grinding? You get the drop, you get some XP and its over.

I'm normally not the one to complain about Skills getting easier, but I am honestly outraged at updates that give XP just for the sake of it.


If Mining gets a bit easier because of the BA assault horn, who cares? It offers a new way of training and adds more variety.
If Woddcutting gets a bit easiert because of the Sawmill addition, who cares? It offers a new way of training and adds more variety.
Easier Skills aren't the problem, as long as new content gets added with it.

But I am, honestly spoken, outraged at something like the Effigies, which don't add any content at all but just offer free XP.

And to make it even worse, to players who DON'T even deserve it!

I DO NOT DESERVE skilling xp for killing monsters! :angry:


Shattered heart is almost the same, however, there is at least the goal of the statue, apart from that it's impractical because of two reasons:
1.A lot of the methods which yield Stones are actually the ones giving lower xp than others.
2.You need to get stones in all skills before you can get new stones again.

So shattered heart isn't that bad.

But Effigies...tbh, I hate them, and I hate it that there are so many players who like them, just because they can't be bothered to train skills the normal way. I hate this kind of attitude where it's only about the levels and not HOW you get there. I don't want a 99 without any work - but sadly, there are a lot of others who do. I personally find this pathetic.



Regarding the Quest Article: Interesting view, and although I don't find "grinding" that bad, there's one point I wholeheartedly agree with - What the hell is wrong with quest requirements? On the forums I often see a lot of players complaining about too low requirements, and I wonder...who cares? I want to do a quest because I like quests and not because I want to feel great just because I have some stupid level requirement.


As a restriction for quests which give good rewards, OK. But apart from that- Why?

#6
Wingless
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I don't understand what reqium said about a effigy giving you 135k xp in rc. From experience you never get to choose any one skill more then one time.


Yeah, his/her logic is flawed. You would never get that much in one skill from one effigy. Also you have to be doing combat to get the effigy so it's not like you're adding that on to experience that you're already getting.

I did find the quest article interesting :D


I was giving an example. I always give examples that are pretty much... impossible to give a point. It's not best idea but I still do it (even though I try to avoid it) >_<

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#7
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I hate to be the one to say it... but I think that tip.it times ran out of new and interesting perspectives about two years ago. I have to force myself to read the articles nowadays because they're just rehashing common understanding into articles for its own sake.

Maybe the frequency of releases should be lowered.

e: I'm not trying to be an ass, this is honestly how I feel.

#8
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I have to agree with the second article, quests are the main thing that keeps me playing this game and I found the most boring part of doing them while grinding levels to complete them. But I guess it will always be a part of MMO's.


#9
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The quest article was cool, although I think that quests should have high levels to do
because it is fun to work towards those levels.

#10
dukey
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I don't understand what reqium said about a effigy giving you 135k xp in rc. From experience you never get to choose any one skill more then one time.


I haven't finished any figgy yet. But the chances of getting the the same skills to choose from I think is rather quite rare. I believe Jagex circulate the skills as you feed it at each stage.

I do agree with the easiness of this game, but we have to consider that even though there are ways to level up but not everyone has 99 yet. Maybe in the future, maybe, you will see the lowest level being 99 on the highscore. I highly doubt I will see that day anyway because I am on and off runescape all the time. I do remember when I was off from runescape for half a year, my ranking for mining was in 4 digits zone, when i come back i was push to 5 digit zone. The same goes for every other skills that I remember I used to stand in 4 digits zone.

Afterall. I play this game to relax, talk to old friend, and do stupid thing here and there. When I am bored of fishing, I'll switch to slaying monster hoping for a good drops.

I have both favor and against the effigy to some extent but overall I am keeping 3 figgy in my bank waiting for the day I can get 91-97 in some pair skills to feed them.

#11
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Um...Requiem's article this week is pretty much just wrong. No offense. :thumbdown:

First off, effigies don't repeat the same skill every time. It's just not how they work. They change each time you feed them. You can't get 135k runecrafting xp from a single effigy because they're coded so that can't happen. <_<

Second, the skill caps aren't going to be raised to 120. It's just ridiculous, there's no reason for it, there's no evidence to support it, and it wouldn't improve the game at all. Why would you even bring it up? #-o It's like speculating that aggressive black dragon spawns will be added to the middle of Lumbridge because the equipment for fighting them is improving.

Third, how are old training methods supposed to be abandoned, exactly? It's all well and good talking about how new methods give faster xp, but you can't dodge the fact that you can't use them unless you're already at a significantly high level. And how are you supposed to get there, hmm? It's not as if I can just go down to the Living Rock Caverns and start mining concentrated gold as soon as I want. 80 mining is not something you get in an hour, you know. :angry:

I was giving an example. I always give examples that are pretty much... impossible to give a point. It's not best idea but I still do it (even though I try to avoid it) >_<

It may be an understatement when I say it undermines your credibility when you use examples this nonsensical. I hope you aren't going to write more articles talking about how Stealing Creation is broken because you can get about 30 points a game and finish a game in roughly 5 minutes, or how the max hit of a godsword is around quadruple the max hit of a whip, or...well, you get the idea. :-P

#12
Wingless
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Um...Requiem's article this week is pretty much just wrong. No offense. :thumbdown:

First off, effigies don't repeat the same skill every time. It's just not how they work. They change each time you feed them. You can't get 135k runecrafting xp from a single effigy because they're coded so that can't happen. <_<


I know, I explained why but you've already read it and responded to that so I won't say anything :P

Second, the skill caps aren't going to be raised to 120. It's just ridiculous, there's no reason for it, there's no evidence to support it, and it wouldn't improve the game at all. Why would you even bring it up? #-o It's like speculating that aggressive black dragon spawns will be added to the middle of Lumbridge because the equipment for fighting them is improving.


But there's no proof to completely disregard it aswell so in essence it's sort of a Devil's Proof moment.

Third, how are old training methods supposed to be abandoned, exactly? It's all well and good talking about how new methods give faster xp, but you can't dodge the fact that you can't use them unless you're already at a significantly high level. And how are you supposed to get there, hmm? It's not as if I can just go down to the Living Rock Caverns and start mining concentrated gold as soon as I want. 80 mining is not something you get in an hour, you know. :angry:


I agree with you there. I've been mining for awhile now to get to 80, but you have to remember that 80-99 is alot more harder than 1-80 which is why I focused in on that particular point.

I was giving an example. I always give examples that are pretty much... impossible to give a point. It's not best idea but I still do it (even though I try to avoid it) >_<

It may be an understatement when I say it undermines your credibility when you use examples this nonsensical. I hope you aren't going to write more articles talking about how Stealing Creation is broken because you can get about 30 points a game and finish a game in roughly 5 minutes, or how the max hit of a godsword is around quadruple the max hit of a whip, or...well, you get the idea. :-P


Yeah, I know. I told you I try to avoid it but I never do :cry:
And no, of course not. I try to write articles on a broad range of subjects, but I'd never do something that has no discussion value or carries my own opinion either. But all in all I thank you for your feedback and constructive criticism instead of flames and bashing :thumbup:

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#13
Troacctid
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Second, the skill caps aren't going to be raised to 120. It's just ridiculous, there's no reason for it, there's no evidence to support it, and it wouldn't improve the game at all. Why would you even bring it up? #-o It's like speculating that aggressive black dragon spawns will be added to the middle of Lumbridge because the equipment for fighting them is improving.


But there's no proof to completely disregard it aswell so in essence it's sort of a Devil's Proof moment.

No proof to disregard it? What do you mean? :huh:

#14
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Second, the skill caps aren't going to be raised to 120. It's just ridiculous, there's no reason for it, there's no evidence to support it, and it wouldn't improve the game at all. Why would you even bring it up? #-o It's like speculating that aggressive black dragon spawns will be added to the middle of Lumbridge because the equipment for fighting them is improving.


But there's no proof to completely disregard it aswell so in essence it's sort of a Devil's Proof moment.

No proof to disregard it? What do you mean? :huh:

Have Jagex categorically denied that level caps will ever be raised? I'm certainly unaware of it, but willing to be corrected, hence Requiem's comment that we can't be completely sure of the fact that level caps won't be increased at some point in the not-too-distant future.

As a general commentary, it is a shame that requiem made use of several flawed analogies and poorly written assertions. To my reading, the points contained within were not so very difficult to fathom, whilst being at least reasonably close to the mark throughout. Pedantry seems to be taking precendence in these critiques over an assessment of core substance. I'll not deny I prefer a well-written article (as troacctid often delivers on their blog etc), but since I was able to see past the basic inaccuracies to what I think were the points beyond, I see no reason to criticise the subject matter, merely its delivery.

The second article on the other hand did irritate me a lot, for one reason only. It is RIDICULOUS to complain about quests being too high-levelled for you unless you yourself are already at what is deemed a highly competent level. Are you saying you'd prefer it to be possible to fight back the elite black knights and balance elemental from, say, level 50? Or perhaps you'd like it to be possible to beat Summer's End with a whopping level 10 constitution?! I assure you that the satisfaction of reaching the required levels and then completing the quests you're looking forward to will provide you with far greater satisfaction than a succession of pointlessly easy quests would. If you rob quests of their challenges you leave them stripped bare of much of the substance that makes some of the best ones so enjoyable to complete.

I too enjoy quests greatly - I rarely allow more than a day or so to pass before completing each new quest - but I can guarantee that when you reach the higher levels that you currently yearn for you will have little desire to see Jagex acquiesce to the desires of the plebeians with their lower levels below you. It is a day to look forward to with relish, rather than BBQ sauce.... Erm, I mean, rather than resentment. :P

#15
Troacctid
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Have Jagex categorically denied that level caps will ever be raised? I'm certainly unaware of it, but willing to be corrected, hence Requiem's comment that we can't be completely sure of the fact that level caps won't be increased at some point in the not-too-distant future.

16-17-92-60934199 page 13, post 1 for example. But is there anywhere where they've ever given any indication or hint or anything to suggest that they'd do it or even that it was under consideration? Because it seems like such an obviously pointless and stupid idea.

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I'm actually in between both articles: I hate quests, but have a quest cape. Basically, I just do them as soon as possible to be done with them and get the rewards.

I disagree about having more low level quests, because low requirements = low rewards. Look at the best quest rewards out there: soul wars respawn, fairy rings without dramen staff and house portal tabs to name a few recent ones. You don't get these from a quest with a level 20 mining requirement.

To me, quests will always be a grind, but I'm a reward junkie: I want to complete everything to get to the good part. So when Jagex releases a high level quest, sure it'll be harder, but at least it will be worth my while.

#17
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To me, quests will always be a grind, but I'm a reward junkie: I want to complete everything to get to the good part. So when Jagex releases a high level quest, sure it'll be harder, but at least it will be worth my while.

That is the only reason I did what part I have of fairytale part 2, the reward, despite the fact I knew I couldn't finish it. I understand that perspective, keeping both high level and low level content up to date and fun can be difficult. I just notice that the focus has been on high levels and more stimulating activities and quests seem to be low priority. True though. Jagex needs to keep runescape a challenge for people, and new challenges as well. The legends quest used to be hard, the kalphite queen used to be the best boss ever(dragon chainbody). I don't disagree one bit. I envy your quest cape.

Poor Requiem, they are bashing you!

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I dislike effigies. They should be something you get only if you have the level to use it, assists should be prohibited with them IMO as well. I had no idea you only get them through combat. No wonder I haven't got one yet. I only combat train for slayer. I am trying to go for slayer 99 below combat 85(in other words w/o smoking kills) But if I get 85 cb, that just makes it faster to 99. :\ another debatable topic. Penguin spying ftw.

Thanks for picking my article. Thanks for whoever picked it!
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#18
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Have Jagex categorically denied that level caps will ever be raised? I'm certainly unaware of it, but willing to be corrected, hence Requiem's comment that we can't be completely sure of the fact that level caps won't be increased at some point in the not-too-distant future.

16-17-92-60934199 page 13, post 1 for example. But is there anywhere where they've ever given any indication or hint or anything to suggest that they'd do it or even that it was under consideration? Because it seems like such an obviously pointless and stupid idea.

Oh I fully agree - I see no need to raise the cap either. Had a lot of discussions with people on RSOF about it too, but it seems there are plenty of people out there excessively eager to see the level caps raised even though it is utterly unnecessary. I suspect most people suggesting there may/will be a raise to level caps are interpreting the introduction of dungeoneering as the first 120 skill as a harbinger of things to come... Thankyou for posting that QFC for me - it's at least moderately reassuring to know that there are currently no firm plans to introduce that pointless update. :)

@ Vox1st.
Have you considered that since slayer gives 1/4 the xp for each skill that is awarded per kill, you will find it impossible to keep combat below 85 for slayer 99, unless you pointlessly rack up 52m xp in just one combat skill...

#19
loqk
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i'd be happier to see all level and experience caps removed.

one thing you see at low levels is specialisation, with some people training crafting, some magic, others other forms of combat, ant others smithing, woodchopping etc.

this diversification drives the economy, with people who specialise in one thing needing items from other specialists.

as you go up levels, you begin to run into the caps and you become a generalist. in games other than runescape, you are forced into a role by your class, but runescape is unique in that your training path allows you to make your own class by training in the things you enjoy.

raising the level caps to 120 simply gives more room to move, but doesn't solve the generalisation problem.

since the levels are based of a mathematical formula, they theoretically go to infinity except for artificial caps. the main limiting factor is what to do at higher skill levels as there are not an infinite number of types of trees ore ores you can use, nor an infinite number of armour types.

spells could be made continuously more powerful, as the damage from them is formula based, but the runes required would also need to be somehow formula based rather than depending on new runes every few levels.

utility spells and teleport spells are also added level by level and have no way to have an infinite number of them to match the levels you could achieve.

clearly, solving these issues is beyond me, as i am not integral to the development of a gaming system, but perhaps a committee of bright minds, like those at jagex could come up with some ideas :-)

#20
Sumpta
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<snip>
But I am, honestly spoken, outraged at something like the Effigies, which don't add any content at all but just offer free XP.

And to make it even worse, to players who DON'T even deserve it!

I DO NOT DESERVE skilling xp for killing monsters! :angry:


Shattered heart is almost the same, however, there is at least the goal of the statue, apart from that it's impractical because of two reasons:
1.A lot of the methods which yield Stones are actually the ones giving lower xp than others.
2.You need to get stones in all skills before you can get new stones again.

So shattered heart isn't that bad.

But Effigies...tbh, I hate them, and I hate it that there are so many players who like them, just because they can't be bothered to train skills the normal way. I hate this kind of attitude where it's only about the levels and not HOW you get there. I don't want a 99 without any work - but sadly, there are a lot of others who do. I personally find this pathetic.


Oh please. Players who can take full advantage of the effigies HAVE invested in skills. They ARE skillers, because they've already gotten AT LEAST 91+ in the needed skills. Do you honestly think that people who got to 91+ in a skill are going to rely on effigies "because they can't be bothered" to train the skill normally? News flash: they already have invested in those skills. Investigating an effigy at level 97 gives 30k xp... at level 97, it also takes over a million xp to get to the next level. 30k xp is nothing more than a bonus in that scope, but not a viable training method! The final lamp gives similar xp tied to your level, so it's nothing more than a bonus either.

Effigies are definitely an update for skillers. They're great for all-round players: skillers who do combat, or fighters who skill. It's the people who haven't got the levels and who rely on assist that lose out on most of the xp. I can't see how anyone could argue effigies are unbalanced. And yes, Jagex is providing players with alternative methods to train skills (penguins, circus, effigies,...). Nobody's ever going to like all the skills, but seeing how important they are to dungeoneering, it doesn't seem so unintelligent from Jagex's part to provide alternative, yet slower/limited ways to gain xp.

I'm sorry, but the logic of the article is flawed/exaggerated. Effigies are rare drops and you'll never get 135k xp from them in one single skill. And even if you could, you would already need 10.6 million xp in that skill.




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