Dungeoneering: Bindery

[jettrider]

You pretty much do have unlimited prayer. You have 396 prayer points at your disposal in every dungeon (chests/cash drops make altars plentiful), and if you rush properly then you should only need to pray for a couple ticks in each room. I almost never get hit by mage because I rarely don't have a prayer up when running through those rooms (unless I'm praying range, not quite 100 yet). Anyway from my experience you can do the 20-25 minutes of pre-boss dungeoneering within 200 prayer points or less, meaning plenty for the boss.

 

So if I'm not getting hit by mage the entire dungeon, I'd much prefer a platebody. Tyrannoleather body just isn't good enough and there's no need for its strong point anyway.

[xpx]

I think one of the most important things about binding has yet to be mentioned on the thread(although it has been a small part of some of the posts)- when choosing what to bind you have to take into account what other people have binded. The most simple example of this is the usefulness of shadow silk hood- when there is only one person using it on a dungeon and the other 4 have plates/leatherbodies, the overall average damage people receive isn't very different, however, if you are the only person on a team without a hood, you are screwed, so the fact that some people have hoods forces others to get them aswell.

 

The same, actually, goes for weapons aswell. Although there has been alot of discussion about of either 2h/battleaxe being best, this fact actually increases the usefulness of the weapons on the other side of the table- namely fast stab weapons. If there are 4 prom 2hs/prim battleaxes on your team(and there usually are), you'd be MUCH better with a primal rapier than 2h/battleaxe for dps. Why? because on the monsters that the other people are weak on, you are at your strongest, and visa versa. I am guessing that on a perfect team there would be 2h, battleaxe, spear, longsword and rapier, since the average damage output of all the top end weapons is barely noticeable.

 

As for a 3rd bind(as there is no question weapon+hood is best before 100 dg, hex bow not included in the discussion), one of the weaknesses of a leatherbody that has yet to be discussed is the negative accuracy bonus on it, which can be extremely significant for the faster weapons. I'd say that you should only consider leatherbody as your 3rd bind if you don't key and use 2h/maul. As for the blood necklace, one underrated thing about it is that is one of very few items in the whole of dungeoneering that boosts your accuracy bonus aswell as strength, thus allowing for faster kills. I would consider binding blood necklace if you use spear/rapier/longsword or battleaxe and you feel comfortable with the damage you receive with 2 binds. Otherwise, a platebody is still a great 3rd bind for most situations.

 

For 4 binds i would go for weapon+hood+necklace+leatherbody, just because it's doubtful you'd need much more defense for the dungeons and it's a great compromise.

 

For the record, i got my dungeoneering level having spear/warhammer/rapier as the weapon and prom plate for defense, and i've got to say, the difference in overall damage you receive on a 5 plate team is barely higher than on a 5 hood team, but if over two people on the team have a hood, the others will be severely compromised. Now, with the newer additions, i have rapier and hood bound.

[Golvellius]

I'd love to try to go pure mage at 120.

Celestral staff, top, bottom, silk hood with maxed blitzer would be pure dps heaven. (500s at dagger speed :thumbup: )

[Troacctid]

I think one of the most important things about binding has yet to be mentioned on the thread(although it has been a small part of some of the posts)- when choosing what to bind you have to take into account what other people have binded. The most simple example of this is the usefulness of shadow silk hood- when there is only one person using it on a dungeon and the other 4 have plates/leatherbodies, the overall average damage people receive isn't very different, however, if you are the only person on a team without a hood, you are screwed, so the fact that some people have hoods forces others to get them aswell.

 

The same, actually, goes for weapons aswell. Although there has been alot of discussion about of either 2h/battleaxe being best, this fact actually increases the usefulness of the weapons on the other side of the table- namely fast stab weapons. If there are 4 prom 2hs/prim battleaxes on your team(and there usually are), you'd be MUCH better with a primal rapier than 2h/battleaxe for dps. Why? because on the monsters that the other people are weak on, you are at your strongest, and visa versa. I am guessing that on a perfect team there would be 2h, battleaxe, spear, longsword and rapier, since the average damage output of all the top end weapons is barely noticeable.

 

As for a 3rd bind(as there is no question weapon+hood is best before 100 dg, hex bow not included in the discussion), one of the weaknesses of a leatherbody that has yet to be discussed is the negative accuracy bonus on it, which can be extremely significant for the faster weapons. I'd say that you should only consider leatherbody as your 3rd bind if you don't key and use 2h/maul. As for the blood necklace, one underrated thing about it is that is one of very few items in the whole of dungeoneering that boosts your accuracy bonus aswell as strength, thus allowing for faster kills. I would consider binding blood necklace if you use spear/rapier/longsword or battleaxe and you feel comfortable with the damage you receive with 2 binds. Otherwise, a platebody is still a great 3rd bind for most situations.

 

For 4 binds i would go for weapon+hood+necklace+leatherbody, just because it's doubtful you'd need much more defense for the dungeons and it's a great compromise.

 

For the record, i got my dungeoneering level having spear/warhammer/rapier as the weapon and prom plate for defense, and i've got to say, the difference in overall damage you receive on a 5 plate team is barely higher than on a 5 hood team, but if over two people on the team have a hood, the others will be severely compromised. Now, with the newer additions, i have rapier and hood bound.

This is one of the aspects of dungeoneering that I really like: how a coordinated team can increase their effectiveness as a group by specializing. I see that as the main strength of the hexhunter bow--only one team member needs to bind one for it to be an amazing weapon against the correct targets; the rest of the team should be able to pick up the slack on melee-based enemies.

[jettrider]

Primal spears and longswords will not have much of an impact. Spears cannot take advantage of the berserker class while longswords are inferior to battleaxes in direct comparison. The best team would be:

 

Keyer has primal battleaxe + tank

3 people have primal 2h or primal battleaxe (primal 2h should be slightly better considering prom 2h is about equal) + berserker

1 person has hexhunter bow or primal rapier, with appopriate classes, OR another 2h/baxe

 

Attack styles matter in dungeoneering, but not beyond slash and crush. Stab and range are helpful but completely unnecessary for killing mages, lesser demons, etc. Slash does well enough.

 

And honestly - the more defence you have, the faster you go. You don't want to be that guy stuck on 500 lp no food while the rest of your team is killing the boss. People standing around for 5-10 seconds at every food drop is quite annoying and they are losing multiple combat rounds for every enemy. Keyers wiith primal platebody+platelegs, tank class, and mage prayer will need to pick up barely any food.

 

I've retracted my previous statement that using a leatherbody+platelegs with 4 binds would be a good idea. Although you wouldn't have to build an altar, you would need more food (and generally cooking or scrounging for food takes collectively longer than building an altar) and you would lose accuracy. Primal platebody + platelegs would let you key an entire dungeon using mage prayer and the food from the starting table.

[ghjkl]

Hexhunter bow is a waste of a bind. Seriously, do you really think it is that useful?

All it does is allow you do kill mages like 5 seconds faster, and maybe a boss 20 seconds, faster, and in return, every other monster will own you because you lack a plate.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Hexhunter bow is a waste of a bind. Seriously, do you really think it is that useful?

All it does is allow you do kill mages like 5 seconds faster, and maybe a boss 20 seconds, faster, and in return, every other monster will own you because you lack a plate.

but having a single player with a hexhunter helps a team greatly.

And I've gone through enough dungeons with just a 2h and shadow hood, that I really know how to deal with the lack of a plate.

I mean as long as the hexhunter is your third bind, I don't see it causing too many problems.

Think of it as taking one for the team.

 

Yeah, to me, anyone who binds prom body or primal chain is a moron. Tyrannoleather body gives 83 magic defense which is 89 higher than prom body. That's HUGE. It also gives +30 range attack which is 40 higher than prom plate, you can use a crappy bow and still have a good range accuracy. There's more bosses that can/should be ranged, like necrolord. Notice how you pray melee because of the summons? 83 magic defense ftw? :thumbup: It gives a little bit of melee defense anyway, which considering you'll be wearing a hood, you dont need melee protection against mages.

it's also -10 melee attack bonus

which happens to be roughly equal in importance to strength equipment bonus on targets you miss more than 50% of the time on, which is a

[uzi0espil]

i agree with sonikku

[Zaaps1]

you forget the -150 melee and ranged def, and there are always good trees in the dungeon (if you have an appropriate wc level) so making a decent bow (T8+) takes literally FEW SECONDS.

 

1. The extra defenses of the platebody don't really add up to much because, as I've said before, they don't matter when it comes to high level melee and ranged attacks, at least in Daemonhiem. Wear a Promethium Platebody and go kill a level 114 Forgotten Ranger without any prayers or potion boosts. You'll probably have to eat at least once or twice, I know I do, and I'm at maxed stats. But then go and kill a level 114 Forgotten Mage with a Tyrannoleather body without any prayers or potion boosts. You'll see that you have remarkably little damage, because for some strange reason magic attacks in Daemonhiem aren't too lethal.

 

Of course, the extra defenses might make a difference on weaker opponents, but those you can kill quickly, so it doesn't particularly matter.

 

And of course, you could say that the leatherbody leaves you vulnerable to melee and range attacks, even if the platebody does so as well. Well, first of all it grants you near complete protection against magic (so simply praying against range when fighting shades makes them more or less a joke, unless they're 133 or something, in addition you can walk into most Occult rooms with little fear, assuming you also have a Hood). Second, melee attacks can easily be anticipated. You cannot anticipate range or magic attacks because they are longrange attacks. With melee, however, you can work with the fact that the monster has to be right next to you, and avoid damage. Thus, that leaves only rangers to worry about, and with a Hood, the only range-based attacks capable of attacking you are Shades and Thrower Trolls (excluding bosses).

 

The negative attack bonus has been mentioned. I can't say this doesn't play a role, but I will say that if you didn't tell me, I would never have known. Killing monsters in Daemonhiem is so focused on hitting weak points that oftentimes you won't even notice the drop in accuracy that is implied. Besides, I'd much rather miss once or twice per monster than have to eat like 10 more salve eels during a Monolith Room.

 

2. You mentioned that it takes nearly no time to make a good bow. This is a valid point, since bows only require one log while spears/2h swords require 4 ores and overall tougher skills to have in high levels (I mean, c'mon, you're comparing woodcutting and fletching to mining and smithing). Nevertheless, longbows are so accurate that I don't think that the range bonus of the leatherbody vs platebody particularly matters. Works in the leatherbody's favor, sure, but I don't feel that it's worth arguing or debating over, since range is so accurate anyway.

 

Awesome idea with the gatestone, by the way. I should try that.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

 

 

you forget the -150 melee and ranged def, and there are always good trees in the dungeon (if you have an appropriate wc level) so making a decent bow (T8+) takes literally FEW SECONDS.

 

1. The extra defenses of the platebody don't really add up to much because, as I've said before, they don't matter when it comes to high level melee and ranged attacks, at least in Daemonhiem. Wear a Promethium Platebody and go kill a level 114 Forgotten Ranger without any prayers or potion boosts. You'll probably have to eat at least once or twice, I know I do, and I'm at maxed stats. But then go and kill a level 114 Forgotten Mage with a Tyrannoleather body without any prayers or potion boosts. You'll see that you have remarkably little damage, because for some strange reason magic attacks in Daemonhiem aren't too lethal.

 

Of course, the extra defenses might make a difference on weaker opponents, but those you can kill quickly, so it doesn't particularly matter.

 

And of course, you could say that the leatherbody leaves you vulnerable to melee and range attacks, even if the platebody does so as well. Well, first of all it grants you near complete protection against magic (so simply praying against range when fighting shades makes them more or less a joke, unless they're 133 or something, in addition you can walk into most Occult rooms with little fear, assuming you also have a Hood). Second, melee attacks can easily be anticipated. You cannot anticipate range or magic attacks because they are longrange attacks. With melee, however, you can work with the fact that the monster has to be right next to you, and avoid damage. Thus, that leaves only rangers to worry about, and with a Hood, the only range-based attacks capable of attacking you are Shades and Thrower Trolls (excluding bosses).

 

The negative attack bonus has been mentioned. I can't say this doesn't play a role, but I will say that if you didn't tell me, I would never have known. Killing monsters in Daemonhiem is so focused on hitting weak points that oftentimes you won't even notice the drop in accuracy that is implied. Besides, I'd much rather miss once or twice per monster than have to eat like 10 more salve eels during a Monolith Room.

 

2. You mentioned that it takes nearly no time to make a good bow. This is a valid point, since bows only require one log while spears/2h swords require 4 ores and overall tougher skills to have in high levels (I mean, c'mon, you're comparing woodcutting and fletching to mining and smithing). Nevertheless, longbows are so accurate that I don't think that the range bonus of the leatherbody vs platebody particularly matters. Works in the leatherbody's favor, sure, but I don't feel that it's worth arguing or debating over, since range is so accurate anyway.

 

Awesome idea with the gatestone, by the way. I should try that.

 

 

I think you're making defense sound far more important than it actually is.

Alot of pro teams simply suggest fishing or planting of edicaps in Occult floors due to the brutal mob composition.

And without armor at all, we manage fine, doing ~40 minute occult floors, usually without deaths.

 

Eventually you just get used to clearing GD's without any armor at all.

By then, armor becomes just a luxury.

Why sacrifice killing speed for a little extra?

 

Remember that not all monsters have an truly exploitable weakness.

Fire giants may me weakest to crush, but their defense is still obscene.

Brutes may be obscenely weak to stab, but you can't stab if you're using a 2h.

Bats, being flying creatures, are resistant to all melee forms.

[Zaaps1]

 

 

you forget the -150 melee and ranged def, and there are always good trees in the dungeon (if you have an appropriate wc level) so making a decent bow (T8+) takes literally FEW SECONDS.

 

1. The extra defenses of the platebody don't really add up to much because, as I've said before, they don't matter when it comes to high level melee and ranged attacks, at least in Daemonhiem. Wear a Promethium Platebody and go kill a level 114 Forgotten Ranger without any prayers or potion boosts. You'll probably have to eat at least once or twice, I know I do, and I'm at maxed stats. But then go and kill a level 114 Forgotten Mage with a Tyrannoleather body without any prayers or potion boosts. You'll see that you have remarkably little damage, because for some strange reason magic attacks in Daemonhiem aren't too lethal.

 

Of course, the extra defenses might make a difference on weaker opponents, but those you can kill quickly, so it doesn't particularly matter.

 

And of course, you could say that the leatherbody leaves you vulnerable to melee and range attacks, even if the platebody does so as well. Well, first of all it grants you near complete protection against magic (so simply praying against range when fighting shades makes them more or less a joke, unless they're 133 or something, in addition you can walk into most Occult rooms with little fear, assuming you also have a Hood). Second, melee attacks can easily be anticipated. You cannot anticipate range or magic attacks because they are longrange attacks. With melee, however, you can work with the fact that the monster has to be right next to you, and avoid damage. Thus, that leaves only rangers to worry about, and with a Hood, the only range-based attacks capable of attacking you are Shades and Thrower Trolls (excluding bosses).

 

The negative attack bonus has been mentioned. I can't say this doesn't play a role, but I will say that if you didn't tell me, I would never have known. Killing monsters in Daemonhiem is so focused on hitting weak points that oftentimes you won't even notice the drop in accuracy that is implied. Besides, I'd much rather miss once or twice per monster than have to eat like 10 more salve eels during a Monolith Room.

 

2. You mentioned that it takes nearly no time to make a good bow. This is a valid point, since bows only require one log while spears/2h swords require 4 ores and overall tougher skills to have in high levels (I mean, c'mon, you're comparing woodcutting and fletching to mining and smithing). Nevertheless, longbows are so accurate that I don't think that the range bonus of the leatherbody vs platebody particularly matters. Works in the leatherbody's favor, sure, but I don't feel that it's worth arguing or debating over, since range is so accurate anyway.

 

Awesome idea with the gatestone, by the way. I should try that.

 

 

I think you're making defense sound far more important than it actually is.

Alot of pro teams simply suggest fishing or planting of edicaps in Occult floors due to the brutal mob composition.

And without armor at all, we manage fine, doing ~40 minute occult floors, usually without deaths.

 

Eventually you just get used to clearing GD's without any armor at all.

By then, armor becomes just a luxury.

Why sacrifice killing speed for a little extra?

 

Remember that not all monsters have an truly exploitable weakness.

Fire giants may me weakest to crush, but their defense is still obscene.

Brutes may be obscenely weak to stab, but you can't stab if you're using a 2h.

Bats, being flying creatures, are resistant to all melee forms.

 

It's true that on very good teams, defense is of little concern.

 

But from what I've witnessed, health becomes a major concern at one point or another, and rooms like Monolith or mass mages with rangers throw in become major problems.

 

In addition, I've never really noticed the drop in attack bonus. You probably won't get slowed down too much by it.

[ghjkl]

If there is a room with 1 mager and 4 rangers, I would still pray mage. I do not want to take the risk of being binded, then promptly owned. Especially if I'm the keyer and the ggs is on my and I have no gate.

[jjjon123]

This topic is for discussing what items you consider most important to bind as you get new slots to do so with, as well as suspected theme weaknesses.

 

I figure for MOST PEOPLE it would probably go Promethium 2H Sword or Promethium Spear (S) > Shadowsilk Hood > Blood Amulet > Promethium Platebody.

What is your order of importance?

List in [1st] > [2nd] > [3rd] > [4th]

OR, if the items bound depend entirely upon how many binds you have available, list your different loadouts.

Personally:

2H Sword

 

2H Sword > Shadowsilk Hood

 

2H Sword > Shadowsilk Hood > Sag. Shortbow/Hexhunter Bow

Sag. Shortbow/Hexhunter Bow > Shadowsilk Hood > Primal Chainbody

 

Primal Maul > Primal Full Helm > Primal Chainbody > Primal Plateskirt

Primal Battleaxe > Primal Kitesiheld > Primal Chainbody > Primal Plateskirt

 

On theme weaknesses: (my post from RSOF)

"Just something small I thought I should point out:

Ice - Crush

Abandoned - Slash (but idk it has crush too)

Furnished - Stab

Occult - Ranged

So...

Warped - Magic?

Let us also consider that the remaining T11 items are the Primal Platebody, 2H Sword, Spear, Longsword, Celestial Robe Top, and Sagittarian Body. Further to that, the Primal Platebody is the strongest single piece of armor in the game, and most of those weapons are melee, although I realize there aren't many Magic or Ranged weapons to begin with.

Finally, Magic takes more preparation time than Ranged or melee even WITH bound items, seeming it "more difficult" to mage effectively. The final floors are supposed to be more difficult, right? This is because melee requires one component, Ranged two, and Magic requires three or more to be effective (as in, you could bind bloods and use an air staff, but that's the lowest of the low!).

Finally, it would make sense if ice was easily shattered by crush attacks. Furnished and Abandoned probably each have one style that works for "most" monsters, but not all of them, because there are skeletons and zombies on abandoned. Occult floors are populated primarily by mages or Magic-wielding creatures, so Ranged would match there."

 

With the "new" Occult theme, has anyone on these forums actually seen a Soulgazer?

YouTube only has one video:

Youtube HD Video - This video will cause high CPU usage, to view the video in a lower quality, please click here.

I would have expected that since the Hexhunter Bow is supposed to be more powerful towards Magic-users, the Soulgazer would be seen MORE OFTEN on Occult floors.

fixed

[Owned_Nex]

1st: Primal B Axe>Primal Maul>Novite Spear

2nd: Blood Neck>Hexhunter>Prom Plate>Hood

 

Since I'm not over 100 Dung I don't know/care about a third/fourth. Anyways, a weapon is obviously the best first bind. Pretty obvious, but I think prom spear is really too far behind to bind over a maul. Its a lower tier, and does not benefit from ring. I can't convince myself that there is a monster who is so incredibly resistant to Crush that it could beat out maul. I don't have a problem hitting things, and I almost always get Berserker over Spear users.

 

Blood Neck is so useful for clearing rooms and saving food early on. Its overall usefulness is simply too great. Hexhunter is great for taking out mages and shades. They are probably the most dangerous of the creatures in Dung. Prom plate for general tanking. You can easily protect from magic and be good against everything except for shades. Hood is good, but only one person needs it.

[ghjkl]

1st: Primal B Axe>Primal Maul>Novite Spear

2nd: Blood Neck>Hexhunter>Prom Plate>Hood

 

Since I'm not over 100 Dung I don't know/care about a third/fourth. Anyways, a weapon is obviously the best first bind. Pretty obvious, but I think prom spear is really too far behind to bind over a maul. Its a lower tier, and does not benefit from ring. I can't convince myself that there is a monster who is so incredibly resistant to Crush that it could beat out maul. I don't have a problem hitting things, and I almost always get Berserker over Spear users.

 

Blood Neck is so useful for clearing rooms and saving food early on. Its overall usefulness is simply too great. Hexhunter is great for taking out mages and shades. They are probably the most dangerous of the creatures in Dung. Prom plate for general tanking. You can easily protect from magic and be good against everything except for shades. Hood is good, but only one person needs it.

 

Are you kidding me? Hood is easily the best second bind, you obviously haven't tried it when you notice that all the decent teams all have hoods. Lol Baxe>maul>novite spear? Did you make a typo and forget to put the 2h in front of baxe?

I agree with you on neck>plate, but that's only if you never key. If you key, you rarely clear rooms so you need more defense and rarely have the opportunity to leech hp from monsters.

[Zaaps1]

If there is a room with 1 mager and 4 rangers, I would still pray mage. I do not want to take the risk of being binded, then promptly owned. Especially if I'm the keyer and the ggs is on my and I have no gate.

 

 

With Tyrannoleather Body + Ranged Prayer, you'll use maybe an eel in that room. You probably won't get binded, either. If you think about how often they cast their bind attack and consider how often they will splash, it seems a little on the overcautious side to disqualify the leatherbody for the sole reason of avoiding binds, especially after considering all the benefits.

 

Consider if you used the Platebody. You would have to pray ranged anyway because the rangers, cumulatively, would most likely hit more than the mage. The mage would then be hitting hard and consistently. If you instead prayed magic, you wouldn't be binded, but the rangers would do more damage to you running through that room (assuming they are all piling you) than you would take if you used the leatherbody, prayed range, and killed them all.

 

Of course, it does have drawbacks. There is an undeniable drop in attack (although I'll argue that it's not very significant given that it's dungeoneering) and it doesn't solve the problem of being vulnerable to range and melee (neither the platebody nor the leatherbody offers much assurance against those attacks), it merely covers the magic side of the spectrum. It requires more requirements (90 range AND def opposed to just 90 def). And of course, the status quo is against it.

 

Thus in no way can I say that the Tyrannoleather Body is better than the Promethium Platebody. It just offers some very significant advantages and it is severely underrated, for the various reasons mentioned in this thread. It is more appealing for many people and thus for them it is the better option. In reality, they are equal options and are both viable, it's just that the leatherbody has never been given much attention lying in the shadow of the more popular, but not necessarily better, platebody.

[Kekek]

I will probably try sagittarian body when it comes out. Maybe even tyranno body after 100 dungeoneeringi if I someday get that damn hood. But I wouldn't hype too much about the tyranno body, since I very rarely have food problems with plate, and if I happen to die, it's because I didn't concentrate on the game or boss did some badass combo. In some cases, tyranno body may be better than plate, but please, do not say that x is always better than y, when we're talking about dungeoneering.

[Youmu]

Another question: If armor really is that useless for defending against things, why bind it over other things?

 

The ultimate setup SHOULD be 2h -> hood -> sag long/hex -> celestial staff, but you guys decide to put armor which really doesn't help much at all.

 

High leveled monsters (usually 150+, but even 100+ can pack a punch) are EXTREMELY accurate, so accurate it rips through armor. I don't know about the case with leather bodies, but it still might be barely better than without armor since magic attacks are the weakest of the 3 anyway. It's only strong because so many people bind platebodies/chainbodies instead.

 

And the difference between things like longsword and battleaxe is so trivial you'll barely notice the difference. +8 str allows you to hit what, 5 higher? What matters is the style, and it's not just slash/crush all the way. I'd like to see you slash/crush hobgoblins, forgotten rangers, brutes, guard dogs, hellhounds, and DRAGONS DAMMIT.

 

Like what xpx said earlier, the ultimate setup would be HOODED primal 2h/spear/longsword/battleaxe/rapier, each with a different weapon of course. Maybe a hex, sag long or celestial staff in there too.

 

And pantim, there is a reason people don't bind mauls/warhammers... they only enable you to use ONE attack style, and I don't think anything other than ice monsters and skeletons are extremely weak to that.

 

Great discussion, by the way! I love it when topics like these foster many different aspects of discussion. Keep it up everybody! ^^

[Sly_Wizard]

A hood is a waste of a bind.

 

Yes, I said it.

[Youmu]

A hood is a waste of a bind.

 

Yes, I said it.

The same can be said for platebodies.

 

No wait, any piece of armor tbh.

 

Hood gives you immunity to most humanoids. I think that's more useful than a piece of armor that doesn't really help at all :thumbup:

[Sly_Wizard]

A hood is a waste of a bind.

 

Yes, I said it.

The same can be said for platebodies.

 

No wait, any piece of armor tbh.

 

Hood gives you immunity to most humanoids. I think that's more useful than a piece of armor that doesn't really help at all :thumbup:

 

Hoods give a massive 0 attack. To that, I say no thank you. I'd rather keep my Sag short/Celestial catalytic bound. Much more useful.

 

Edit: And hoods are pretty much useless on occult floors, as nearly every room has either a book, a mage, a necromancer, a ghost or a shade, and I'd be willing to bet they'd be even more useless on warped floors when they come out.

[Youmu]

Hoods give a massive 0 attack. To that, I say no thank you. I'd rather keep my Sag short/Celestial catalytic bound. Much more useful.

 

Edit: And hoods are pretty much useless on occult floors, as nearly every room has either a book, a mage, a necromancer, a ghost or a shade, and I'd be willing to bet they'd be even more useless on warped floors when they come out.

You'll be pretty surprised how useful the hood is on abandoned. Sure it might not be that useful on occult, but the team can just pile the magic monsters anyway.

 

Also, attack bonuses outside of weaponry don't matter much since simply exploiting the weakness is enough to deal immense damage. A spear's slash is pretty mediocre, yet it's still excellent on zombies and hydras.

 

And read the OP. He predicts that the warped floor monsters will be more weak to magic, therefore there will be lots of melee monsters.

 

And sag short over sag long?

[Sly_Wizard]

You'll be pretty surprised how useful the hood is on abandoned. Sure it might not be that useful on occult, but the team can just pile the magic monsters anyway.

 

At which point I'd rather range (if only I could get a hexhunter bow...).

 

Also, attack bonuses outside of weaponry don't matter much since simply exploiting the weakness is enough to deal immense damage. A spear's slash is pretty mediocre, yet it's still excellent on zombies and hydras.

 

My subtle point was that I'd rather bind a second weapon over a hood which, in this case, happens to be a celestial catalytic staff. Of which, mind you, will allow you to out-damage melee on pretty much everything outside of bats, hill giants, hellhounds and higher leveled mages and rangers. And if you add in blazer, it's even better.

 

And read the OP. He predicts that the warped floor monsters will be more weak to magic, therefore there will be lots of melee monsters.

 

That doesn't mean that said rooms will be devoid of magic based NPC's.

 

And sag short over sag long?

 

Indeed. The only things you really need to range (mages, books, ghosts, necromancers, etc.) have such low range defense that you'll hit just as often with a short as you would a long. Only, with a short, you get more hits in over a set period of time than you do a long on account of it being a bajillion times faster.

[Youmu]

At which point I'd rather range (if only I could get a hexhunter bow...).

Can't agree with you there, although melee is still somewhat effective against them.

 

Melee is actually the primary option for pretty much all non-boss monsters, it seems. Combine it with berserker to make it even better.

 

My subtle point was that I'd rather bind a second weapon over a hood which, in this case, happens to be a celestial catalytic staff. Of which, mind you, will allow you to out-damage melee on pretty much everything outside of bats, hill giants, hellhounds and higher leveled mages and rangers. And if you add in blazer, it's even better.

If magic really deals damage so fast, then all the pro dungeoneers would choose to mage (which they do not).

 

Plus the fact that occults are out, it makes magic look even more useless. If you really want a staff, purchase some logs and make a fire staff.

 

And as I've stated earlier, melee with berserker just adds on with the favoring melee business.

 

That doesn't mean that said rooms will be devoid of magic based NPC's.

But as OP stated, it will have significantly less magic monsters than the other themes due to this very weakness (less than occult at least). Still, you've got a point, there will still be magic monsters that will annoy you to no end. Still doesn't make the hood useless though.

 

Indeed. The only things you really need to range (mages, books, ghosts, necromancers, etc.) have such low range defense that you'll hit just as often with a short as you would a long. Only, with a short, you get more hits in over a set period of time than you do a long on account of it being a bajillion times faster.

In that case then a sag short doesn't even warrant a bind slot. A smuggler-bought tangle gum shortbow does the job just fine as well, no?

 

No matter how you look at it, the hood is STILL worthy for a 2nd bind slot. Ranged/magic just aren't useful enough to warrant themselves early bind slots, as you can just buy the thing until 100 dunge.

[Viv]

primal baxe - tank for keying ;D

 

hood - yeh a bit less useful on occult but still good

 

prom plate - i binded sag chaps and primal chain but they sucked....lol wish i coudl get bloodneck or hexhunter..but then keying w/o a plate *shudders*

 

had to key like 97-100 w/o a plate and yes the platebodies defence helps!

 

if everyone didnt require hoods i think primal legs/skirt + prom plate would just own .... but because thiers hood onyl teams u need a hood