Tip.It Times - 26th December 2010

[Gandorf61]

Very nice articles, probably one of the best Times I've read all year. :thumbup:

 

ew, wilderness and free trade article was sickening.

 

its a yes or no vote, plain and simple. dont whine because everyone is voting yes.

THE 2 PERCENT UNDECIDED COULD VOTE NO AND IT STILL WOULD BE A LAND SLIDE

 

Did you even read the article? The whole point that was being made is that the polls are just a public relations stunt and regardless the Wilderness and Free trade will be coming back. I don't see anything in the article that could be classified as whining because it's coming back but rather Racheya is just saying that she's disappointed in the way Jagex is handling this situation/decision/poll.

 

 

Personally I wish Jagex would give us some confirmation that they have new ideas to tackles RWT and bots because it would give a lot of people against bringing back the wildy/free trade a reason to be supportive of it. No one is really against having free trade/wildy it's just the consequences of bringing it back could be quite bad if new solutions aren't implemented.

[Ts_Stormrage]

TBH;

 

The fact that this poll has gathered almost 500k votes (yes, no AND dont care votes combined) in THREE DAYS..,

 

Compared with Jagex' statement that they have had "1.2m votes in less then 24 hours" on the first poll/version/petition/whatever you want to call it so it doesn't look like it was really just a scam..,

 

Tells me exactly what kind of people would really really want the wilderness and free trade back... I'm not saying EVERY person that wants the wildy and free trade back the way it was is a cheating and botting /b/tard, but it sure is odd that when a bit of verification is required, 700k people suddenly don't bother to "express their opinion" anymore...

 

 

Worse is that Jagex claims it as a victory (it's STILL on the front page):

 

"The highest number of votes we've ever recieved for any player poll"

 

[cabbage]...

Jagex has lost all credibility, and they can't borrow some from polls like these anymore...

 

 

Furthermore, you can't go around saying: "most people are voting yes, so accept it even if you don't like it"... That is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make, as everyone understands that this is the way it works...

 

BUT... Stunts like these is what make some people lose faith in Jagex... If Jagex hadn't blunderred terribly on this one, if this had been done properly, the no-voters would have accepted it and moved on...

 

I'm quite serious that it wouldn't be a wrong move to name and shame some more people; the person that thought this poll up... Jagex' should really come out and say "we're sorry we handled things this way, and the responsible people for this have been fired"... That is, if they want to save whats left of their reputation of supposedly listening to their subscribers...

Edited December 27, 2010 by Mirror
Don't evade the censor

[Will H]

TS_Stormrage, I expected better from you than to avoid the filter. It's there for a reason.

 

Jagex has this really really awful habit of not apologising for a mistake, and instead they pretend that it was all part of the original plan. We know Phase 2 was not part of the original plan, otherwise the first vote would have been called Phase 1. We've only heard a full blown apology once before, and that was when Mod MMG took over as CEO. I don't lose respect for someone because they make mistakes, otherwise I'd only end up not respecting anyone, I lose respect for someone when they don't apologise when it's due. Jagex, put up your hands, say you're sorry, and move on.

[Jonanananas]

Tbh....once again Jagex has shown they know [bleep] about communication with their players. I mean, this is a very important hour for the future of RuneScape, and yet they don't manage to give us proper information. I wrote an article about this a few weeks past and I'm shocked to see how they still mess up, even with something this important.

 

 

 

1.The first "poll" is ridiculous. Until now, not even a million has voted in the referendum - yet 1.2 million votes were gathered in the poll? Yeah, right. And instead of admitting their mistake, they post crap in the forums as if the poll was functioning properly. Then they finally give in and agree to the referndum - and then make it look like it all was part of the original plan. I can't believe this is actually true.

 

2.Once again, we have a terrible lack of information. Instead of getting a real list of what would change, what problems would arise etc., we got no easily accessable official information at all. It once again takes players to post CC conversations with mod mark, once again QFCs have to be thrown around to prove this or that thing - it's horrible.

 

3.I think a temporary forum really would have been needed. Instead of that, FU is drowned in tons upon tons of the same threads, spam etc. all about the new wildy.(When will it be? OMG No-voters fail, etc.)

 

4.The most important issue is definitely RWT and botters. The same trade screen will still be there, and content in the wildy will be relocated, so scammers and lore won't be a big problem.

 

bots and RWT however....

Jagex admits they will be back. Oh wait, they never left. And that's the problem. "There will be more bots" is not enough information to be able to decide if the old wildy should be back. There ALWAYS have been bots and RWT - only the amount is different.

 

Jagex says they are confident to be able to deal with the problems - but which problems exactly?

 

Will they be able to restrict RWT - or just the credit card fraud that comes with it. As to me, I can't believe this - how do you want to avoid RWT? It's simply not possible! How would you distinguish between a gift and RWT? You can't! RWTers use outside resources to agree about the deal - how in seven hells does Jagex believe they can control that? There is simply NO tech to deal with RWT.

 

About bots...Honestly, there are 2 differences to 2007 regarding bots:

1.There are mostly no gold farmers anymore, but people bot on their mains instead

2.bots have evolved a lot.

 

From what we have seen in the recent months, Jagex is in no way able to deal with the current bots. So how do they want to deal with coming ones?

 

Some people use the fact that there are still many bots in the game as an argument for they wildy - they say: hey, bots have always been there, it doesn't matter anyway.

However, what they forget is that the quantity matters. Yes bots have always been there - which proves Jagex can't really cope with them. Only NOW, people bot on their mains. With free trade back, players will once again resort to gold farmers as these can collect money a lot quicker - and you don't even have to fear for your main being banned. The more gold farmers used, the more income is generated - which means that(unless jagex can do something about it), worlds will again be swarming with bots besieging every single yew tree, red chin, green dragon or w/e. You get the idea.

 

 

 

So...I would be all for a returning of the old wildy and free trade(even though I don't PK) but honestly - I see how much Jagex messed up just with the communication about this update. If they can't manage to do that, how will they ever be able to deal with the problems that arise from it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the fictional: I read it through in one go now - and I must say, it's brilliant =) The style of the epilogue was a bit too "happy-ending" for me, but I think that's just my personal preferences :P

Overall, it was really great and I'll look forward to another fictional of you, should you find the time and inspiration to write one.

[Sheep Tails]

Personally, I don't remember the days of botting with any distaste. Sure, I was a a noob at the time, but the botting and RWTing didn't affect me personally. Maybe the prices were messed up. Maybe things were messed up in general. But everyone who played then found a way to live through it. If Jagex thinks they can withstand any possible waves of bots and RWTers, then let them be.

 

So, people were buying their skills. Who did that affect? People who care so much about seeing their names on the Hiscores list that they rant about losing precious ranks.

 

Honestly though, no one player can claim to know better than Jagex. Whatever mistakes RS's dear old creator has made, the fact remains that they ARE the people who suffered the most for letting the bots and RWTers out of hand. Credit card companies threatened them, remember? They lost a ton of money paying off the hacked people/companies, remember?

 

I'm not going to be able to convince anyone. Hell, I am pretty bad at convincing myself sometimes. But this isn't one of those times, and if you think my opinion is wrong, go ahead and tell me why. That won't change how I remember RS a couple years ago, though.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Ring world: you misunderstood it then...

I am indifferent about it (leaning to no, see below) as RuneScape functioned fine for me personally back in 2007... But there are a couple of points that HAVE to be made:

 

1. I completely disagree with the way they handled these polls... Jonananaas said it best; They act like it's all part of the plan but anyone with half a brain sees that it wasn't... If they really wanted to rack up numbers like that, they wouldn't have shut the first poll down after less then 24 hours...

 

2. You contradict yourself... First you say that those 700k missing players (or a chunk thereof) could have forgotten their password and therefor have not voted, but after that you say they could make a new account to vote again with... If they could no longer access their account, it takes them less then an hour to recover your password, so that BS argument of yours doesn't fly either...

 

Everything in the way this poll has been handled stinks; Jagex seemed to want an answer from us, and they were making damn sure they were getting the answer they wanted us to give them... If this ISN'T the case then someone lost their minds there, and yes, then I can deduce (in your case its asuming) that this person got fired...

 

3. Like I said I'm indifferent to the free trade and wildy coming back, but that is only because the pro's and con's hold eachohther in balance... If Jagex can truly deal with RWT and botting; then why are they not doing so already?

 

If Jagex can SHOW me they can handle it and I'll gladly vote yes... Hell yes... Tell me the votes you need and I'll work day and night to get the poll the way they want it...

But no... Jagex have already admitted that botting and RWT will always be part of their game... It is STILL a part of their game, even with all the changes they made TO the game (RWT still exists in the form that you pay other people to go on your account and get you the XP and/or GP)...

 

Add in free trade, and voila; gold farmers will ALSO return because they can now give you 2bil for a needle... Let's make it easier, why don't we... The only reason I haven't completely landed on a no vote is that I do not know what restrictions there will be... I''m hoping more and more limited trade the more black marks you have, or somethign along those lines...

 

 

Finally, let it be clear that I do not need to discredit Jagex at all, they are doing a damn fine job of that themselves... My criticism of that is also not neccisary to validate my opinion of this whole ordeal, but it did weigh in... This is where you started asuming, btw (pot? kettle?)...

 

 

Jonanananas: Thanks for taking an interest in my story, I'm glad you enjoyed reading it as much as I did writing it... With more time I could perhaps revise it a bit that it'd be even better :)

I will however be returning to my regularly scheduled programming for now (sure have a klot to talk about as there will be 3 months between my last and next editorial), but who knows what the future holds...

[Rsvote]

Interesting article, I share the author's distaste for the manner in which Jagex have conducted this, even though I'm passionately in favour of reintroduction.

 

I have been blogging this somewhat, which some people may be interested in: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

 

EDIT: Yes, new account, I generally read and don't post but thought considering my personal interest I'd make an account.

[langer]

I'm more dissapointed in Jagex inability to deal with macroers than by their dubious poll/vote.

 

I understand that from an economic standpoint, creating a vibe and making lots of players come back, re-introducing free-trade is a good idea.

 

I don't care too much about clues in the wild, I did them before and I did them with revs. I would just need to avoid the wild for the first month before all the pkers get together in the same world to fight each other.

 

 

What I don't like is the fact I stood behind Jagex when these change were implemented and they convinced me it was for the good of the game. For them to admit defeat today is a slap to the face to those who stood for them. I don't believe you anymore Jagex. You don't have ways to detect botters, you don't punish them hard enough when you do catch some and you're not fooling us by pretending otherwise.

[kingmickez25]

Hate to be a noob here.

 

If i voted in the ''poll'' does this mean i have to vote again in the real ''pole''

 

 

and i thought posting stuff from the maxed forums was bad

[lordkafei]

Interesting article, I share the author's distaste for the manner in which Jagex have conducted this, even though I'm passionately in favour of reintroduction.

 

I have been blogging this somewhat, which some people may be interested in: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

 

EDIT: Yes, new account, I generally read and don't post but thought considering my personal interest I'd make an account.

 

Jagex is pulling out all the stops to get people to become members right now.

 

Theres a banner ad currently running on the F2P side - they are running a sale on PayBySMS memberships right now @ $6.99. If my memory is correct, thats usually $9.99 - quite a sale going on.

[strilmus]

I think the two are inexorably linked together, due to the fact that if they only brought old wilderness back but not free trade, people would use that to break trade limits instead of the GE, and if they brought back free trade but not the old wilderness, that would be kind of pointless because eliminating the old wilderness came with eliminating free trade. The PKers would be whining for years if they didn't get back their wilderness when free trade returned.

 

I'm pretty sure Jagex will not be able to handle the bots, but since when at any point in history was Jagex able to handle them? Scams will return in a small part, but most people will not trade outside of the GE unless it's a big ticket item, and if they get tricked during such an important transaction, it's really more of their lack of experience at fault than it is the system. And if you get lured into the wilderness, you're just plain stupid and never read any warnings. Since gravestones are sticking around, there's no other area in the game where your items will be raided by somebody else.

 

Either way, I really don't care.

[Rsvote]

Interesting article, I share the author's distaste for the manner in which Jagex have conducted this, even though I'm passionately in favour of reintroduction.

 

I have been blogging this somewhat, which some people may be interested in: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

 

EDIT: Yes, new account, I generally read and don't post but thought considering my personal interest I'd make an account.

 

Jagex is pulling out all the stops to get people to become members right now.

 

Theres a banner ad currently running on the F2P side - they are running a sale on PayBySMS memberships right now @ $6.99. If my memory is correct, thats usually $9.99 - quite a sale going on.

 

Yes, it's quite interesting. I'm soon going to try fish out some financial data/members statistics and see if I can make a blog on that (cheap advertising alert: Blog is http://rsvote.wordpress.com) though I have other blogs I plan to write first, after I sort out more pressing matters.

 

P.S. Thanks for pointing that out to me, do you happen to have a screenshot?

[curtis95112]

Interesting article, I share the author's distaste for the manner in which Jagex have conducted this, even though I'm passionately in favour of reintroduction.

 

I have been blogging this somewhat, which some people may be interested in: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

 

EDIT: Yes, new account, I generally read and don't post but thought considering my personal interest I'd make an account.

 

Jagex is pulling out all the stops to get people to become members right now.

 

Theres a banner ad currently running on the F2P side - they are running a sale on PayBySMS memberships right now @ $6.99. If my memory is correct, thats usually $9.99 - quite a sale going on.

 

Yes, it's quite interesting. I'm soon going to try fish out some financial data/members statistics and see if I can make a blog on that (cheap advertising alert: Blog is http://rsvote.wordpress.com) though I have other blogs I plan to write first, after I sort out more pressing matters.

 

P.S. Thanks for pointing that out to me, do you happen to have a screenshot?

 

This gets me wondering. Why is Jagex so desperate for money?

 

Subscriptions have been declining for quite a while now. What forced them to use all their cards at once? I mean, trade limits removed, wildy coming back, massive sale, lottery... This kind of thing is unprecedented.

[Rsvote]

Interesting article, I share the author's distaste for the manner in which Jagex have conducted this, even though I'm passionately in favour of reintroduction.

 

I have been blogging this somewhat, which some people may be interested in: http://rsvote.wordpress.com

 

EDIT: Yes, new account, I generally read and don't post but thought considering my personal interest I'd make an account.

 

Jagex is pulling out all the stops to get people to become members right now.

 

Theres a banner ad currently running on the F2P side - they are running a sale on PayBySMS memberships right now @ $6.99. If my memory is correct, thats usually $9.99 - quite a sale going on.

 

Yes, it's quite interesting. I'm soon going to try fish out some financial data/members statistics and see if I can make a blog on that (cheap advertising alert: Blog is http://rsvote.wordpress.com) though I have other blogs I plan to write first, after I sort out more pressing matters.

 

P.S. Thanks for pointing that out to me, do you happen to have a screenshot?

 

This gets me wondering. Why is Jagex so desperate for money?

 

Subscriptions have been declining for quite a while now. What forced them to use all their cards at once? I mean, trade limits removed, wildy coming back, massive sale, lottery... This kind of thing is unprecedented.

 

It isn't quite all their cards at once; Dungeoneering stank of trying to bring people back through friendship groups and trying to break into a new market. They have actually been trying very hard to retain their position for awhile.

 

However, I think this large scale salvage mission is probably the best plan they have; if they was to do it gradually, no one would hear of it so they need chaos and a big fuss being made over it to reach out to their lost players.

 

Controversy is a real attention grabber.

[uath13]

This whole thing worries me.

 

If it's just a P.R. stunt it's going to blow up in Jagex's face big time.

 

If it's not then we're looking at a huge influx of real world trading & botting. Right now the trade limits & removal of old wilderness are all that keeps those at bay. There's still some but nothing compared to 07 levels. I still spend quite a bit of time countering the traders on some of the other sites I moderate for but it's nowhere close to as bad as before. If they've actually developed the systems to deal with them why aren't they in use now. Just go close the door to Aubrie's sometime & watch the bots run around the building see they haven't been completely dealt with.

 

This whole thing just seems wrong.

[epitaph_o]

It was clearly stated at the top of the page that it was a petition, petitions do not need to have a "no" vote.

[Ts_Stormrage]

It was clearly stated at the top of the page that it was a petition, petitions do not need to have a "no" vote.

 

Petitions don't last just a day and a half... Someone dropped the ball... You know it, I know it, everybody knows it, even Jagex is does...

[Andregiant]

This whole thing is a joke. A poll? Give me break. The RS world was doing fine as is.

But seems Jajex needed money influx, thus this stunt. Hey! love the game, why try to fix,

what's not broken?

 

Pk was always about money. What's wrong with playing, skilling ?

 

It remains a game, why is money so important? Never will inderstand.

...Andre, combat 136. And a few capes :)

 

Edit: 18m in bank lol, nothing :)

 

Ps: I really liked the fictionnal. Storm! Super!

Racheya, you do a great job. Don't let the Naysayers bother you

[lordkafei]

 

There's a banner ad currently running on the F2P side - they are running a sale on PayBySMS memberships right now @ $6.99. If my memory is correct, that's usually $9.99 - quite a sale going on.

 

P.S. Thanks for pointing that out to me, do you happen to have a screenshot?

 

[Rsvote]

 

There's a banner ad currently running on the F2P side - they are running a sale on PayBySMS memberships right now @ $6.99. If my memory is correct, that's usually $9.99 - quite a sale going on.

 

P.S. Thanks for pointing that out to me, do you happen to have a screenshot?

 

 

Thanks^^

[Bladewing]

This whole thing is a joke. A poll? Give me break. The RS world was doing fine as is.

But seems Jajex needed money influx, thus this stunt. Hey! love the game, why try to fix,

what's not broken?

 

Pk was always about money. What's wrong with playing, skilling ?

 

It remains a game, why is money so important? Never will inderstand.

...Andre, combat 136. And a few capes :)

uhhh pking 76king is way more lucrative today than it was in 2007.

[Amundogus2]

Whatever happened to quality control...? The first article is basically a retelling of all the conspiracy theories the community believe Jagex is cooking up in their oh so secretive Jagex castle. I don't need to hear that. Where is the reflection on the subject, maybe you could look back to 2007 and find out whats changed since then, find out how the community, Jagex or the game has changed. Get some valuable information in there. Thats what would make me bother to read these times articles again, which I now do very rarely.

[Rsvote]

I think there is value in recognising player's shared fears/conspiracies at this point.

[Racheya]

Whatever happened to quality control...? The first article is basically a retelling of all the conspiracy theories the community believe Jagex is cooking up in their oh so secretive Jagex castle. I don't need to hear that. Where is the reflection on the subject, maybe you could look back to 2007 and find out whats changed since then, find out how the community, Jagex or the game has changed. Get some valuable information in there. Thats what would make me bother to read these times articles again, which I now do very rarely.

My point of the article was to focus on the poll rather than the actual update that it was supporting. I believe that there is plenty to be said JUST about how much of a farce the poll was and how disappointing it was for Jagex to try and pass it off as 'listening' to the community. It's not about conspiracy theories it's looking at what the real intention of this is.

 

I'd rather not go into looking at what's changed since 2007 since I was only just starting Runescape back then and I would not be truly able to reflect on that time.

[Rsvote]

Whatever happened to quality control...? The first article is basically a retelling of all the conspiracy theories the community believe Jagex is cooking up in their oh so secretive Jagex castle. I don't need to hear that. Where is the reflection on the subject, maybe you could look back to 2007 and find out whats changed since then, find out how the community, Jagex or the game has changed. Get some valuable information in there. Thats what would make me bother to read these times articles again, which I now do very rarely.

My point of the article was to focus on the poll rather than the actual update that it was supporting. I believe that there is plenty to be said JUST about how much of a farce the poll was and how disappointing it was for Jagex to try and pass it off as 'listening' to the community. It's not about conspiracy theories it's looking at what the real intention of this is.

 

I'd rather not go into looking at what's changed since 2007 since I was only just starting Runescape back then and I would not be truly able to reflect on that time.

 

That's exactly what most conspiracy theories are; looking at what the real intention is. Your article does deal with conspiracy theories (in this case, Jagex conspiring to determined a particular result/make themselves look good) whether you like it or not, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing.