The "perfect" Smithing update

[Unknown_Warrior]

So, after seeing how people raged over the Artisan's workshop last week, it got me to wonder: "What is a good Smithing update?" I usually do this to several outdated skills, an effort to see how it is like from a developer's perspective. After thinking long and hard, I got... nothing. I have no idea what a good Smithing update looks like, and I wonder what your ideas are.

 

Let's not forget, people have opinions. Here are several ideas and counter-arguments that frequently pop up.

 

#1: Make untradeable armours for high-level smiths.

A: This would turn Smithing in the next Herblore. Topics would frequently pop up whether or not Smithing should be added to your combat level as your armour is better than the opposition's, even if it only becomes important at late levels. It should also be decided whether or not it should be banned from PvP, also ties in with the following idea.

 

#2: Lower existing levels for Rune armour and make higher-tier armour.

A: This would turn into Smithing versus Monster Hunting really fast. If the armour was too weak, the upgrade would be considered a failure, if the armour was too strong, several bosses just lost their prime purpose (special note to Nex, maybe the Corporeal Beast and especially General Graardor).

 

#3: It should be like in the olden days, when you could still make money out of skilling.

A: The main difference is that there are several more people with 99 Smithing than back then. It's really hard to make something that can be both profitable and useful. In a game where XP is valued the most, the only way things are profitable is if they're either slow, don't get you experience of if they're based on luck.

 

#4: Crank up Smithing to level 120 and make armour in the newly available 21 levels.

A: Many would say this simply adds fake longevity by just stretching out a skill for a longer time. Not only that, smithing costs would probably rise because all people with level 99 just realised they need an additional 91 million experience to make the newest tier of armour.

 

So, Tip.it, what's your idea?

[Saradomin_Mage]

#1:

Jagex's main beef with extremes/overloads has been that the potion / its boost is not immediately visible to other players. If the new untradeable armours looked different, this problem won't exist.

 

#2:

This will have to be left to the hands of Jagex's balancing team. Oh joy.

Lowering rune armour to a reduced level will not tie up with its mining requirement, and lowering that too will ruin the market.

 

#4:

Not too keen on this. That is all.

[Trey]

Why not do this to solve #4:

 

Bronze 1-10

Iron 11-20

Mithril 21-30

Rune 31-40

Dragon 51-60

 

You have a lot of room to move around there that way and can add tons of in between items. Tradeable or not.

 

It's not like anyone looks forward to 99 smithing so they can make rune plates. You don't get 99 smithing and then go make yourself full rune to train in. You don't make rune, period.

[Mrhouse]

#1:

Jagex's main beef with extremes/overloads has been that the potion / its boost is not immediately visible to other players. If the new untradeable armours looked different, this problem won't exist

 

And then every monsterhunting team in existence requires you to have ~99 smithing to go bandos/armady/dks/nex.

 

Think that might generate a few rants as aswell, don't you? How many NON COMBAT SKILLS should we have to max to compete with others at COMBAT.

[exterrrr]

#1:

Jagex's main beef with extremes/overloads has been that the potion / its boost is not immediately visible to other players. If the new untradeable armours looked different, this problem won't exist

 

And then every monsterhunting team in existence requires you to have ~99 smithing to go bandos/armady/dks/nex.

 

Think that might generate a few rants as aswell, don't you? How many NON COMBAT SKILLS should we have to max to compete with others at COMBAT.

 

All the skills play a role in Combat, why Smithing can't?

[Nifflin]

#1:

Jagex's main beef with extremes/overloads has been that the potion / its boost is not immediately visible to other players. If the new untradeable armours looked different, this problem won't exist

 

And then every monsterhunting team in existence requires you to have ~99 smithing to go bandos/armady/dks/nex.

 

Think that might generate a few rants as aswell, don't you? How many NON COMBAT SKILLS should we have to max to compete with others at COMBAT.

 

If all non-combat skills had high level untradeables it would make the game much more interesting; adding more content, diversity and purpose to skills is never a bad thing. All non combat skills (or almost all of them) tie into combat somehow. Somebody else had an amazing couple posts about this in the 200m all skills thread.

 

Really, the biggest complaint is that people don't want high level content because they are too lazy to get high levels. That's like saying that luxury cars shouldn't be made because you personally can't afford them.

[Mrhouse]

#1:

Jagex's main beef with extremes/overloads has been that the potion / its boost is not immediately visible to other players. If the new untradeable armours looked different, this problem won't exist

 

And then every monsterhunting team in existence requires you to have ~99 smithing to go bandos/armady/dks/nex.

 

Think that might generate a few rants as aswell, don't you? How many NON COMBAT SKILLS should we have to max to compete with others at COMBAT.

 

All the skills play a role in Combat, why Smithing can't?

 

They play a very small role, like for training and they aren't untradable so they can be bought.

[Nifflin]

#1:

Jagex's main beef with extremes/overloads has been that the potion / its boost is not immediately visible to other players. If the new untradeable armours looked different, this problem won't exist

 

And then every monsterhunting team in existence requires you to have ~99 smithing to go bandos/armady/dks/nex.

 

Think that might generate a few rants as aswell, don't you? How many NON COMBAT SKILLS should we have to max to compete with others at COMBAT.

 

All the skills play a role in Combat, why Smithing can't?

 

They play a very small role, like for training and they aren't untradable so they can be bought.

 

I suggest you read this thread.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/287268-skilling-and-untradeable-high-level-rewards/page__st__20__p__4721146__hl__tertiary__fromsearch__1#entry4721146

 

Edit: The OP is the most relevant part.

[Mrhouse]

#1:

Jagex's main beef with extremes/overloads has been that the potion / its boost is not immediately visible to other players. If the new untradeable armours looked different, this problem won't exist

 

And then every monsterhunting team in existence requires you to have ~99 smithing to go bandos/armady/dks/nex.

 

Think that might generate a few rants as aswell, don't you? How many NON COMBAT SKILLS should we have to max to compete with others at COMBAT.

 

All the skills play a role in Combat, why Smithing can't?

 

They play a very small role, like for training and they aren't untradable so they can be bought.

 

I suggest you read this thread.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/287268-skilling-and-untradeable-high-level-rewards/page__st__20__p__4721146__hl__tertiary__fromsearch__1#entry4721146

 

Edit: The OP is the most relevant part.

 

 

If its kept in line and not ridiculously overpowered in comparison to other options like overloads are, yeah I think that's okay.

 

 

I think it's the 'I hoped this update would be what overloads were to herblore' type comments in other threads that are eating at me. Wrong place wrong time perhaps but I thought it should be said.

[exterrrr]

#1:

Jagex's main beef with extremes/overloads has been that the potion / its boost is not immediately visible to other players. If the new untradeable armours looked different, this problem won't exist

 

And then every monsterhunting team in existence requires you to have ~99 smithing to go bandos/armady/dks/nex.

 

Think that might generate a few rants as aswell, don't you? How many NON COMBAT SKILLS should we have to max to compete with others at COMBAT.

 

If all non-combat skills had high level untradeables it would make the game much more interesting; adding more content, diversity and purpose to skills is never a bad thing. All non combat skills (or almost all of them) tie into combat somehow. Somebody else had an amazing couple posts about this in the 200m all skills thread.

 

Really, the biggest complaint is that people don't want high level content because they are too lazy to get high levels. That's like saying that luxury cars shouldn't be made because you personally can't afford them.

 

This.

Smithing is not hard to train at all, i've had 99 banked for a year with no good reason to get it.

With the new workshop, smithing is even easier. Now we need a REASON to train it.

[Neltak]

I'm not sure what/how they should implement a better smithing update other then providing untradeable rewards that are useful. They don't even have to be directly useful to melee (although thats what I'd prefer), I'm thinking cannon repair w/o having to pick up and drop the cannon would be one good advantage to high smithing.

 

 

If its kept in line and not ridiculously overpowered in comparison to other options like overloads are, yeah I think that's okay.

 

 

I think it's the 'I hoped this update would be what overloads were to herblore' type comments in other threads that are eating at me. Wrong place wrong time perhaps but I thought it should be said.

I said that in a different thread and I stand by the basic comparison as I was comparing the type of update (overload:herblore, aka useful untradeables, instead of lumberyard:woodcut, aka useless/near useless training method). In no way I said I'm wanting an update that will be as powerful as overloads in herblore, but what I do want is untradeable high level content that benefits combat/monster hunting.

 

I really think they made herblore too powerful with overloads, as its a must for any sort of serious monster hunting. I'd much rather have most or all skills each add little bonus or dps to combat, whether it be in the form of life boosting armor for both smithing and crafting (doesn't have to be a lot of boost), smithing/fletching better bolts, as others said thieving & agility providing "max" hits, etc.

 

In other words I think a maxed player should have some advantages in combat/monster hunting over someone with just maxed combat (or maxed combat and 96 herb).

[Freakyhair]

It's true that there isn't much wiggle room. and now with capes as insentive there is no way skills can be profitable anymore, unless you add skill or length of time to it.

 

i havnt actually checked out the new update to be honest, but isn't there a fair bit of skill involved? if there is then. well that's kind of what i wanted. if there's not then that's what needs to happen, more minigame type things utilising the keyboard. make skills a game, not a click grind.

 

oh actually maybe the could make high levle untradeable items that give a very slight strength bonus, say plus 10 or so to your max hit. also allow them to be bought into wilderness but make the ore cost very high. basically we need more untradeables but we need them to work and not give silly advantages. they should be handy but it shouldnt make it nessasary to grind for 100hrs to be able to compete.

[Will H]

Here's my idea; you can alter melee armour at the cost of metal bars, which augments the stats of the items, but the alterations eventually revert the armours to their original form. Similarly, you can alter ranged armour with crafting and hides, and enchant magic robes using runes. It would be really nice if there was some kind of special trade screen where you can pay someone to alter your armour if you don't have the levels but have the ingredients.

 

 

For example, I've got Torag's Platebody. I use the Rune Berserker alteration on it at an anvil, which requires 2 rune bars and 95 smithing. It adds a strength bonus to it (let's say +4), reduces the defensive (especially against magic) stats, and becomes untradable. After 10 hours of combat, the platebody reverts to it's original, tradable form. Higher level alterations are more potent, but are also more likely to have downsides in other areas.

 

Another example, I've got a Mystic Robe Bottom. I use the Mist Protector alteration on it at an Enchantment Site (like an anvil, but for Magic), which requires 10 mist runes and 35 magic. It improves magic and melee defence, and also lasts for 10 hours of combat.

 

I don't think it's fair for Melee to be the only side to get an update yet again.

[Freakyhair]

Untradable armours or upgrades to armours would be my suggestion.

 

I lean more towards armour upgrades myself. Such as offensive armour kits which add str bonuses to your gear as well as defensive armour kits which add defense rating OR damage soaking to your armour.

 

This could be balanced by having the upgrades be temporary, moderately expensive, and requiring a non assistable smithing lvl to use. Even if they werent temporary it could be balanced by the cost of adding the upgrades.

 

Another thing would be weapon upgrades, to customize swords to have better stats - balanced by the potential to ruin the sword completely and a very high lvl to do this at all.

 

So you can upgrade your CR to have even more stab or strength bonus at the cost of potentially destroying the item and needing damn near 99 smithing to do so.

 

Could also be balanced by needing expensive rare materials to do so instead of destroying your weapon potentially OR making this bonus temporary (such as this upgrade only lasts an hour before you need to resharpen your CR)

 

Or even allow you to modify the speed of the weapon temporarily would be a MAJOR upgrade to smithing

 

 

This changes smithings use from Dunge door opening/armour repairing to dunge door opening/armour repairing AND armour/weapon upgrading

 

yes. :thumbsup:

 

with some complicated new ore to mine, or the addition of some really rare gems.

 

i reckon they shouldn't be temporary but require a LOT of ores, gems. lot of money basically. ending up costing as much as the weapon or armour itself. this would completely negate the whole pvp issue.

 

i like the idea of adding a new way to smith aswell, requiring actually skill. i really cant think of a way to implement this but i'm sure there is one. same with mining. make it so it could take nearly an hour to mine the gems or ore, but a lot of things to in that hour. once again really can't think what.

 

 

edit ^^

 

also ranged with crafting.

 

basically with every skill in the game make small advantage, high level, untradeable items/food/weapons.

 

with agility possibly you could run very very slightly faster with each level. i also think u shud be able to get a ver small ammount of agility exp for every, say, 3000 squares you walk and 1500 you run. itb nice :mrgreen:

maybe we should make this thread into a massive brainstorming session and email a final piece to jagex :thumbup:

[Freakyhair]

 

i like the idea of adding a new way to smith aswell, requiring actually skill. i really cant think of a way to implement this but i'm sure there is one. same with mining. make it so it could take nearly an hour to mine the gems or ore, but a lot of things to in that hour. once again really can't think what.

 

 

 

Theres this little indie game I first heard about from doing a wiki search on MMO's for the hell of it, its called A Tale in the Desert. Its a sandbox game with a ton of skills in it but unlike runescape the skills require the human behind the avatar to get skilled with it instead of grinding for 20 lvls to make this new thing.

 

With blacksmithing how it works is you get a block of metal and you have to use certain tools to shape it into the right shape and you get a rating from 0000-9999 and the closer it is to the perfect shape the higher the rating is (and the more useful the item is). If runescape had a similar system it would require the person behind the avatar to gain skill at it instead of your avatar gaining skill from doing hte same thing 9001 times.

 

That game has a wiki (much like runewiki) here is a page on smithing for them:

http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale5/Blacksmithing_Guide

 

More specifically a guide on how to make one of the smithable items:

http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale4/Guilds/Coastal_Plains/Hatchet

 

 

Whether or not this concept will work in runescape is a thread in itself but I would like to see something like this to test the person behind the avatars skill should they have the level to do these upgrades

 

that game looks mint!

problem runescape has is being so limited graphics wise. this is pretty much what i imagined though, would that not be amazing!

[Gbpackers31]

upgrades to armours would be my suggestion.

 

This is what I think should happen instead. i like the idea of Str and Def kits to armor, but I think a possible Runecrafting/Magic tie in in the form of Rune imbuing could be good as well, to give armor/weapons magic porperties and benefits (untradable ofc). For example, imbuing fire runes or some sort to a weapon would give it the ability to inflict fire magic damage some of the time as well as physical. I'm not sure the best way to go about this, but I'd say you'd need both smithing and runecrafting levels. This would also bring in some more variety in the game, and give more strategy to certain-level combat.

 

Another option to this method would be to imbue directly into the bars themselves through the rune altars. Then smithing these imbued bars would produce the desired armor/weapon with different properties than typical. Or, it could range in a whole new series of armor/weapons. Thus, in this way, you wouldn't have to introduce new ores. You could just transform the ones you have into a new line of high leveled untradable bars and byproducts.

 

This could also help runecrafting from being just a money-maker to something with a real purpose and benefits (outside of double nats).

[Blankblankblank]

I guess the general feeling is that Jagex needs to update skills to have a more direct impact to their original purposes. It's obvious Jagex originally intended many non combat skills, like smithing, fletching, and crafting, to tie into combat. This is highlighted in places like SC/Dungeoneering. However, Jagex made those tie-ins at a time where they were relevant, when there was a small population and not so many npc's around to fill the gap of better products, or even the same products from those skills. But now, monster hunting fills the roles of best money maker, and with things like effigies, it now trains other skills, often times better then they train themselves. Making rune armor and crafting black dragonhide just doesn't cut it anymore, those ideas are old and they've been worn thin.

 

 

The new age is like herblore with extreme potions. Where you get a direct, distinct, and unique advantage from each skill that you can tie-in to combat. Like smthing, the ability to modify armors and make them better, while also being able to produce mediocre armor from scratch. That's a good ability and it's a good way to sell the skill to the combat crowd. Skills like runecrafting and agility can also impact armor and its performances.

 

 

So what if "99 smithing" became a new standard amongst elite teams at GWD? I've played so many games that are like that, where multiple skills better you at combat, not just rare drops or ones that cost a fortune. Runescape, while striving to be unique, can take some pointers from other games. It's not like it hasn't already.

[NastyJenny]

Smithing could be used to modify existing weapons/armor into more powerfull versions, lets say +10% stats just out of the blue.

Once modified those items become untradable, dwarfs gladly dispose of any unwanted item.

Chance to successfully modify a wep/armor is 10% base all the way to 75% at full mastery. To get higher chances one has to modify (success or failure counts) items of the same type.

On death those items are reverted to normal versions.

Smithing level required to modify wep/armor is base combat needed to use + 20 so per ex :

60 for rune

80 for dragon

90 for barrows

 

Gives smithing a decent use imo, and gets rid of a lot of junk used to train smithing normally.

 

Fletching could get a similar treatment.

[Wkw]

IMHO, it should allow you to modify existing armors so they have higher soak and a lp boost.

 

Say, modify bandos so you have +500 LP. Lasts for 10 hours of combat. Can't be "removed", or traded until you use it up.

 

Just an example

[Markup]

level 10 smith all steel

level 20 smith all mithril

level 30 smith all adamant

level 40 smith all rune

level 50 new tier

level 60 new tier

level 70 new tier

level 80 new tier

level 90 new tier

 

Then make it so that the new tier armour degrades after a time based upon the smithing level of the person who smithed the armour. For example a level 50 smither who made lvl 50 tier armour results in armour that degrades after say 10 hours. However a level 99 who smiths lvl 50 tier armour results in an armour that degrades after 100 hours. You get the point, improve/alter wherever necessary as its just the concept.

[Ole]

I like the idea of enhancing armor we already have. For example adding sockets (like sockets in WoW, basically). I think that'd add versatility to smithing and actually make it desirable to train.

[green9090]

Here's what smithing can do. Using certain materials, preferably untradable ores that must be mined, you can upgrade existing armors to do a number of different things like boosting defense, boosting strength bonus, or boosting constitution.

These are for full sets of armor (helm, plate, legs, and shield), not per piece (so bronze would get +1 str per piece and something like 50 cons for plate, 25 for legs, 10 for helm, and 15 for shield)

Levels 1-10 can upgrade armor with 5 def required for +4 str, +5% defense, or +10 constitution

Levels 11-20 can upgrade armor with 10 def required for +5 str, +5% def, or +15 constitution

Levels 21-30 can upgrade armor with 20 def required for +6 str, +5% def, or +20 constitution

Levels 31-40 can upgrade armor with 30 def required for +8 str, +5% def, or +30 constitution

Levels 41-50 can upgrade armor with 40 def required for +10 str, +8% def, or +50 constitution

Levels 51-85 can upgrade armor with 50-60 def required for +15 str, +10% def, or +70 constitution

Levels 85-95 can upgrade armor with 70-75 def required for +20 str, +15% def, or +100 constitution

Levels 96-99 can upgrade armor with 80+ def required for +25 str, +20% def, or +200 constitution

 

Note that this is in addition to anything else the armor does, so if you were to upgrade Nex armor and a chaotic kiteshield (keeping in mind the chaotic kiteshield has 80 def required), you would add something to the effect of 100lp to the body, 50 for the legs, 25 for the helm, and 25 to the shield, in addition to whatever other bonuses the armor has. Or you could opt for 10 more str on the body, 7 on the legs, 5 on the shield, and 3 on the helm. Or you could just multiply all of their defensive stats and soak amounts by 20%. Doing each of these things would require some different, difficult to obtain material and would render the armor untradable until you remove it.

 

That would neither devalue boss drops nor be useless. The numbers aren't perfect, but it's something to go off as far as how to make smithing useful and not knock boss hunting out of the running.

 

It would be nice to also have crafting do something similar for ranged and mage armor.

[Logdotzip]

Would have a lot of negative feedback at first, but why not add durability to all armors and weapons, that or add the ability to temporarily augment their stats by say, adding bars or pieces to them. Eventually they "chip" off. Higher smithing levels provide either better bonuses, make them last longer, or both.

[ho3f3l]

well, the cannon could had a boost on max hit, and they could made the ability to smith high lvl ore cannonballs, but untreadable.

[Zaaps1]

I cbf to dig it out, but I have a suggestion on the Suggestions Forum on how to improve smithing via the introduction of a new metal and set of armor/weapons. The suggestion itself is a little outdated since it was written before damage soaking/Nex, but the central idea on how to fit it into conventional smithing follows:

 

Basically you have 3 unique areas, a mine, a furnace, and an anvil, each in its own area that could be accessed via a special method in the Stone of Jas area in the Guthix Temple. The ore itself would have a mining level requirement of about 80. However, at level 80 there is a 90% or something extremely high like that of the ore breaking and damaging you heavily. Every mining level you got, you'd decrease this percentage up to level 130 Mining, when you'd always succeed. The way it would work would be that if you wore a Guthix item while mining in these special mines, you'd get an instant 16 level boost, and when mining the rock containing the new ore itself (as opposed to the other ore veins in the mines, such as perhaps Runite) you'd get a 15 level boost. This means that you'd need a minimum of level 50 to mine, but as you increased your mining level to 99, you'd grow more and more efficient. This would allow supply to be high, yet would give a huge edge to high level miners.

 

At the furnace, it's the same idea. At level 80 smithing, you'd need 25 coal per bar. As your smithing level increased by 2, you could smelt the bars with 1 less coal. At level 130 smithing, you'd be able to smelt the bars without coal. Again, there'd be a 16 level boost for wearing a Guthix item and a 15 level boost by using the special ore as opposed to normal ones.

 

Finally at the anvils, it's more normal where the requirement for the weapons and armor would be upwards of 120 smithing. With both boosts (Guthix item and smithing with the ore), you'd need a minimum of 90 smithing to make the very worst items.

 

This accomplishes a few things. First of all, it leaves the smithing tables we currently are completely intact. You still need 99 (or something) smithing to make a Rune Platebody, etc. Secondly, it would prevent any level boosts to be used (as they would be canceled out by the boosts given by the area itself, which are required), which imo would cheapen the prestige of being able to mine and smith such armors.

 

There was a lot more to it, but I'm too lazy to dig up the full suggestion at this point. Maybe if you all want to read it I'll go find it. Otherwise though...