Is anyone else just completely disappointed with everyone?

[koaala]

I can't say i am glad that Grimy bunyip is leaving, nor do i care much. But i am VERY glad that people that are assosciated with Grimy bunyip are leaving.One of them is the biggest [wagon] on this forum.

 

Just leave the forum already :thumbup:

 

 

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Thing is, you don't even need to ask people to leave over there. Just get 20 or so people to say they don't like that person, the admins get to kick 'em out. Handy right?

 

It's a foolproof system designed to stop people getting banned for no reason.

Why don't they leave? Contrary to belief of some people here, they aren't as replacable and the administration holds strong intrest in keeping them here, so it comes as no surprise that it was 100% efficiency crowd who was asked to help with guides on the main page, and 0% from any of the anti efficiency people.... Being opposed to efficiency doesn't hold any talents or make you special, while efficiency does.

 

Sy, i've seen you time and again be very adamant about things you've been wrong about, and each and every time it turns into a flamewar. If you do not have the knowledge it's obvious that you'd be advised not to post- people on the H&A aren't nannies and it's obvious that there will be tentions when someone is being ignorant. As to what dire said, saying he trolls people who don't explain give advice(which isn't nessesary) is just saying he breaks the rules. People on the H&A aren't your slaves, and if anything, they should earn the respect of what a teacher gets.

[Thus]

No matter how many people leave, this place will still be [cabbage].

 

Any no I don't want someone who joined in 2008 or some mod from 2007 to tell me otherwise. You know nothing.

[Sy_Accursed]

I am adamant when I know what I'm saying is true based on my personal experience.

All I ask is if you think/know I'm wrong prove it, flamewars start because people expect me to just say oh my memories and personal experience must be wrong because one person said they are without giving anything more substantial than their experience/memory. One persons personal experience or memory is no more valid as proof as mine, so if you wanna say I'm wrong give proof. If you do that I happily take my mistake or experience of a bug that isn't correct.

 

That or people flame me as lying or w/e when I clearly say "as far as I know... but im not sure" or similar and I bite back cause its my nature; I don;t take people flaming me for no good reason.

 

But I also report my own flame wars to make sure they get tidied up and force myself to leave them.

 

People just remember the bad threads, no-one recalls the many threads I give perfectly correct advice in. Or the threads I give fine advice in then get flamed for no reason based on people carrying grudges. Or the many website corrections I perfectly correctly give. Or the posts were I am proven wrong and do apologise.

 

But yeah dires bit bout trolling ppl hu dont explain isn't good. I wasn't agreeing to that part; hence I didn't mention it.

[wioneo]

No matter how many people leave, this place will still be [cabbage].

 

Any no I don't want someone who joined in 2008 or some mod from 2007 to tell me otherwise. You know nothing.

 

Hm...depending on what lies under that cabbage the entire meaning of your post could flip.

 

Anyways, who cares. [cabbage] happens, move on. If they (they meaning whoever you lot are babbling about, I have guesses, but don't care enough to check) want to leave, cool they're gone.

 

I am sure that they are floating around watching all of this rucous and laughing, though.

[koaala]

I am adamant when I know what I'm saying is true based on my personal experience.

All I ask is if you think/know I'm wrong prove it, flamewars start because people expect me to just say oh my memories and personal experience must be wrong because one person said they are without giving anything more substantial than their experience/memory. One persons personal experience or memory is no more valid as proof as mine, so if you wanna say I'm wrong give proof. If you do that I happily take my mistake or experience of a bug that isn't correct.

 

That or people flame me as lying or w/e when I clearly say "as far as I know... but im not sure" or similar and I bite back cause its my nature; I don;t take people flaming me for no good reason.

 

But I also report my own flame wars to make sure they get tidied up and force myself to leave them.

 

People just remember the bad threads, no-one recalls the many threads I give perfectly correct advice in. Or the threads I give fine advice in then get flamed for no reason based on people carrying grudges. Or the many website corrections I perfectly correctly give. Or the posts were I am proven wrong and do apologise.

 

But yeah dires bit bout trolling ppl hu dont explain isn't good. I wasn't agreeing to that part; hence I didn't mention it.

I really loved you defending the artisan workshow up until you realised(after a long process of yur stubbornness) that you'd need to make 15m an hour for it to be any good. Personal experience and memories really aren't enough to give good advice, you need to educate yourself and keep your eyes open, if you aren't sure about something, DON'T, for the love of god, post your advice. It's evident that everyone can't know everything, and people being ignorant is where alot of the flamewars start. You don't need to be perfect, just perfect about the advice you give. Anyone can give good advice, the goal is to give the least amout of bad advice.

[Sy_Accursed]

Artisan Workshop: I got my math wrong, I was proven wrong. I admitted it was wrong and apologised. Convenient how you miss that last bit off.

And i DONT post advice when I'm not sure; doesn't mean I'm always right. I'm human you can be sure about stuff but be wrong.

 

As I've said time and time again prove me wrong and I'm happy to take it. Call me and a liar and flame me without proving a thing and I'm not gonna take it.

Also memory and personal experience does cover a lot of advice well because I read everything I can about RS, question advice I see I'm interested in and unsure about and I have a good memory for such things. Plus if you look at threads where I've discredited other people I do so without flaming and provided links to the relevant info that proves me correct.

 

But all this doesn't alter the fact most of my advice is perfectly fine, most of the threads that turn into flame wars I'm not actually conclusively proven wrong or even proven right. And the few I am proven wrong never needed a flame war and I apologise on for my mistake. Doesn't help matters that users certain insist on holding onto this totally fabricated image of me based on a few posts removed from the overall context of my posting and thereby immediately attacking me when they see a mistake opposed to civilly addressing the issue; cause that just gets my back up and makes me attack back.

[koaala]

As I've said time and time again prove me wrong and I'm happy to take it. Call me and a liar and flame me without proving a thing and I'm not gonna take it.

Also memory and personal experience does cover a lot of advice well because I read everything I can about RS, question advice I see I'm interested in and unsure about and I have a good memory for such things. Plus if you look at threads where I've discredited other people I do so without flaming and provided links to the relevant info that proves me correct.

 

But all this doesn't alter the fact most of my advice is perfectly fine, most of the threads that turn into flame wars I'm not actually conclusively proven wrong or even proven right. And the few I am proven wrong never needed a flame war and I apologise on for my mistake.

H&A, as said earlier, isn't really about explaining knowledge of the game, rather giving advice. Explanations would belong to the metagame(which we don't yet have) forum. Blatant stupidity and ignorance go under the trolling/flaming rule, so it's completely ok to say you are wrong, give the right answer and report your post for flaming trolling. That's why i say giving bad advice is what really matters, not the good advice.

[Tact]

I'm not surprised about how this ended up.

 

When 2 opposing camps form you'll see a us-versus-them mentality take over. People of the mindset will just reinforce each other's convictions without stopping to consider the other side or even what the disagreement was about in the first place. Add in the internet and you get a mishmash of ill will that explodes in everyone's face.

 

Personally I thought the ending was badly handled by the efficiency camp (for lack of a better term), but I wasn't there for most of it and apparently there's plenty of blame to go around.

[Sy_Accursed]

But if you wanna say someone is wrong you have to validate why they are wrong; else it doesn't achieve anything. The OP is no better off as no-one has actually shown their answer is more correct.

 

If you are going to contradict someone's advice you gotta give the why/how to validate that you are in fact the one who has it correct.

[JustAGamer]

Personal experience and memories really aren't enough to give good advice, you need to educate yourself and keep your eyes open, if you aren't sure about something, DON'T, for the love of god, post your advice.

 

Did you come up with this concept through personal experience and memories? The artisan-workshop affair sounds like a personal experience to me. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

I agree, ignorance is in general something that will hurt the community. However, research can only get you so far. For example, suppose a new update has just been released, such as a new boss monster. Sure, you could go to the KB, look some some of the information there, but in general there is no replacement for actually going to the boss, trying out different methods, and finding out what works best. Personal experience is, in fact, a very specific type of research. Personal experience is key to defining each person's core being, and the difference between people is what generates their different opinions, ideas, and concepts. These items are some of the core foundations behind any successful community. There's no point to a community where every being is the same.

 

Are personal experiences enough to justify a full-fledged argument? No. However, research, personal experiences, and the combination thereof are the backbone of many concepts and strategies that we use today.

[koaala]

But if you wanna say someone is wrong you have to validate why they are wrong; else it doesn't achieve anything. The OP is no better off as no-one has actually shown their answer is more correct.

 

If you are going to contradict someone's advice you gotta give the why/how to validate that you are in fact the one who has it correct.

They are wrong because they are ignorant or stupid, that's the whole point. H&A isn't a metagame discussion board and shouldn't considered to be. Everyone can't always explain everything, but there is alot of knowledge that is accepted in groups and considered not to be worth explaining. If someone asks what ring style to use with a hex, you say sniper, and report anyone who says desperado.

[Obtaurian]

Personal experience and memories really aren't enough to give good advice, you need to educate yourself and keep your eyes open, if you aren't sure about something, DON'T, for the love of god, post your advice.

 

Did you come up with this concept through personal experience and memories? The artisan-workshop affair sounds like a personal experience to me. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

I agree, ignorance is in general something that will hurt the community. However, research can only get you so far. For example, suppose a new update has just been released, such as a new boss monster. Sure, you could go to the KB, look some some of the information there, but in general there is no replacement for actually going to the boss, trying out different methods, and finding out what works best. Personal experience is, in fact, a very specific type of research. Personal experience is key to defining each person's core being, and the difference between people is what generates their different opinions, ideas, and concepts. These items are some of the core foundations behind any successful community. There's no point to a community where every being is the same.

 

Are personal experiences enough to justify a full-fledged argument? No. However, research, personal experiences, and the combination thereof are the backbone of many concepts and strategies that we use today.

 

The point Koaala is trying to make is that unverified, unrecorded personal experience is not sufficient evidence to base an argument on. Yeah, you collect data through personal experience, but if you don't record that data it's pretty useless. I couldn't honestly tell you how much mining experience I can get per hour because I've never recorded it. Using Sy's type of "personal experience" I could probably guess somewhere in the range of 100k per hour, but that's really not sufficient and I would never post that type of data or information in H&A. TDs, on the other hand, I have personal experience backed by data and hours of testing. I would feel perfectly comfortable offering my advice there.

 

Just to clarify - I agree with you, but I think you're confused about what Koaala's trying to argue.

[Sy_Accursed]

But if you wanna say someone is wrong you have to validate why they are wrong; else it doesn't achieve anything. The OP is no better off as no-one has actually shown their answer is more correct.

 

If you are going to contradict someone's advice you gotta give the why/how to validate that you are in fact the one who has it correct.

They are wrong because they are ignorant or stupid, that's the whole point. H&A isn't a metagame discussion board and shouldn't considered to be. Everyone can't always explain everything, but there is alot of knowledge that is accepted in groups and considered not to be worth explaining. If someone asks what ring style to use with a hex, you say sniper, and report anyone who says desperado.

 

No-one is asking for a meta-game discussion.

You just have 3 outcomes for wrong advice:

1) post your advice without any extra comment; op is no better off they dunno which advice is right.

2) flame the person who has it wrong and post your advice; probably start a flame war and op still has no way to see which advice is right.

3) post your advice and v. briefly note that the other advice is wrong because...; oh look the op has their advice as one set has justified why it is right and unless reasonably challenged (which I suppose culd drift into meta-game discussion slightly) its done and dusted.

 

In most cases it doesn't even take a lot to justify since you will known where the fact is that proves your advice and can easily drop a url or quote or the logic behind it.

 

And Obtaurian I have never tried to argue my personal experience as proof; I have posted it yes and noted it as such and its only become argued when others insist their personal experience, with equally lack of data etc., some how proves mine wrong. It's like I've said before people have this totally deluded idea of what I've argued about. Heck i only really post such uncertain advice on questions about new content no-one is sure on yet and obscure questions tht rarely get a definitive right answer.

[koaala]

But if you wanna say someone is wrong you have to validate why they are wrong; else it doesn't achieve anything. The OP is no better off as no-one has actually shown their answer is more correct.

 

If you are going to contradict someone's advice you gotta give the why/how to validate that you are in fact the one who has it correct.

They are wrong because they are ignorant or stupid, that's the whole point. H&A isn't a metagame discussion board and shouldn't considered to be. Everyone can't always explain everything, but there is alot of knowledge that is accepted in groups and considered not to be worth explaining. If someone asks what ring style to use with a hex, you say sniper, and report anyone who says desperado.

 

No-one is asking for a meta-game discussion.

You just have 3 outcomes for wrong advice:

1) post your advice without any extra comment; op is no better off they dunno which advice is right.

2) flame the person who has it wrong and post your advice; probably start a flame war and op still has no way to see which advice is right.

3) post your advice and v. briefly note that the other advice is wrong because...; oh look the op has their advice as one set has justified why it is right and unless reasonably challenged (which I suppose culd drift into meta-game discussion slightly) its done and dusted.

 

In most cases it doesn't even take a lot to justify since you will known where the fact is that proves your advice and can easily drop a url or quote or the logic behind it.

 

And Obtaurian I have never tried to argue my personal experience as proof; I have posted it yes and note it as such and its only become argued when others insist THEIR personal experience some how proves mine wrong.

Or 4) Post your advice, say someone elses advice is incorrect, report their advice. Mods delete the incorrect advice. Everybody is happy. :thumbsup:

[Sy_Accursed]

yeah method 4 would work too, but it put pointless workload on mods imo, and it assumes the second person is correct and the mod knows such. There have been threads where the second person is wrong too.

And it still requires people stop being rude and flaming towards advice they disagree with in thier very first reply.

[koaala]

yeah method 4 would work too, but it put pointless workload on mods.

And it still requires people stop being rude and flaming towards advice they disagree with.

If mods were educated enough(they actually played, no problem with that having atleast one highly educated mod on H&A) and worked swiftly enough in these situations, there really wouldn't be problems with this scenario other than people being outraged about being wrong, but that is something people need to learn.

 

Option 4 is actually best because it's most friendly for the OP- they won't even see the incorrect advice, thus there not being any confusion.

[JustAGamer]

@Obt: Okay then. He never particularly used the term "undocumented", so I suppose I made the assumption that he meant personal experience in general.

 

If this is, in fact what he meant, and I merely misinterpreted it, I do apologize.

 

 

As to the current point 4 being discussed: The definition of a moderator is "kept or keeping within reasonable or proper limits; not extreme, excessive, or intense". To go through and deal with all the people who have incorrect/inaccurate information is not only an intense increase in workload, but isn't even part of their job description. To redefine this job description would mean to rewrite the internal workings of the forums, and I imagine some people would not be amused to be "censored" in this manner.

 

The mods primary directive is to serve their community, and dealing with inaccuracies is indeed part of this, however as Koaala just stated, mods who are behind in their information could possibly be prone to inaccuracies. I would propose a new position lower than moderator would be ideal for this goal.

[Sy_Accursed]

yeah method 4 would work too, but it put pointless workload on mods.

And it still requires people stop being rude and flaming towards advice they disagree with.

If mods were educated enough(they actually played, no problem with that having atleast one highly educated mod on H&A) and worked swiftly enough in these situations, there really wouldn't be problems with this scenario other than people being outraged about being wrong, but that is something people need to learn.

 

True but is not the entire issue no matter how well educated you are you CAN be wrong?

So what about if that mod(s) is wrong as well?

 

I can see the benefits in some ways, but I can see it being problematic in others.

At the above about mod role, could have a special class of mods on it; much like the TET or clan leaders are sort of section specific.

[strilmus]

If you like, we could have all submitting users write up a properly written article with cited sources which would be then reviewed by a group of highly qualified players before the post is allowed to be displayed.

 

Or we can just continue to converse the way we could be with some level of civility accompanied by pieces of actual evidence that can be understood by most of the community.

 

On some level, common experience makes conversation easier, but on the other end, if you just wanted to have a consortium of high level players, we could just make a subforum which only allows registered high level users to post, but geez, how would we even regulate that kind of thing without getting too complicated again

 

What even qualifies a user as high leveled? You'll get at least ten different opinions. How do we know that these players will handle themselves maturely? There are a lot of high level players who haven't learned a thing about communicating with other people besides hitting them in the face with a dragon claw while spraying a stream of gibberish at them.

 

So...what's your take?

 

EDIT: Unrelated note, but if you really expect stuff like the Times to be relevant to your interests, maybe....just maybe, you might consider starting to write for them, to let other people know that they can take that kind of initiative since they're part of the community too. If you hate the articles that much, do something about it.

[Range_This11]

EDIT: Unrelated note, but if you really expect stuff like the Times to be relevant to your interests, maybe....just maybe, you might consider starting to write for them, to let other people know that they can take that kind of initiative since they're part of the community too. If you hate the articles that much, do something about it.

Once, long ago, I enjoyed nit-picking the Times from afar. I'm glad I joined, seeing what goes on behind the scenes is more eye-opening than you'd think.

[Tesset]

Been a while since I posted in a runescape board. Huh.

 

I have three things to say. Both mostly about the mods. But first, I have to say I only have a vague idea of what happened.

 

First thing to say is this: if I had been around when this happened, I would have been on the efficiency people's side. I know this because I remember a particular person from a few years ago. A couple people really, but I want to focus on one person. Compfreak, who I'm sure a few of you remember, was a very efficiency oriented person. He made this huge post about why the fighter torso was worse than an adamant chain, even if you already had it. If you can't remember, or if you weren't there, he ended up leaving TIF (just for Zybez, not for a whole new forum) because he felt like he was going to be banned. He had a lot of action taken against him, i.e. posts deleted or edited with little explanation, that he felt was unwarranted. I don't think he was ever described as "elitist," or if he was, not as vehemently as some of those banned, but his story seems fairly similiar.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that the efficiency community tends to troll a little more. Again, I was 100% part of that group. And I do troll. All the time. The admins will attest to that. I get away with it because I'm careful about who I troll; as a forum gamer, I pretty much only talk to that group of people who are also forum gamers. So no one reports me or anything. No one cares.

 

But when you post where someone can be offended, it's different. That's when the mods start to care. So it's best not to troll. Especially in the most public section of the forum. I don't feel it, as I don't visit the RS boards ever, but I'm pretty sure this section still gets more traffic than the General Discussion boards. And it gets more traffic from new people, rather than being mostly older people.

 

I know that most of the efficiency community doesn't troll, or at least not purposely. This is the second thing. I'm pretty sure the mods are a little more vigilant towards the efficiency community, because it's been more of a problem in the past. And in a way, I feel that's right. It doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye to other trolling, but...well, it's like car insurance. I'm 17. I get charged more for car insurance. I can't do anything about that. It's just how it is. My age is not as good at driving as those older than me. They're more experienced. But State Farm doesn't just ignore the fact that some 50 year old has gotten in 4 wrecks that totaled his car in the past month. They charge him more than those around him, even though his base is lower.

 

It's similar with the two thought styles on playing. The people who are playing for fun are more relaxed; they aren't here to be the best, they just want to have fun. The efficient path is almost always more hectic. It takes more work to be efficient than to have fun. So the efficient people have more focus on the game. They troll more. (Ok, yeah, I probably could have connected that better. Whatever.) The mods can "charge" more for the efficiency people by watching them closer, but the fun guy who trolls still gets watched more than his fellow fun people.

 

The third thing I have to say involves the comment about a thread with no rules for people to troll in. I have some experience with that. In fact, there's a thread on TIF that's basically that. Or at least it was. It got steadily worse and worse, breaking just a few more rules. Our that was that no one visited the thread except the regulars anyway, and when new people showed up, we basically focused on them, and didn't do any of our rule shenanigans. The admins eventually came in and cracked down. Basically what they said was this. We would do something wrong. A mod would say, "Don't do that" and we'd stop. Until the mod left. Then we'd just keep posting like before. And the admins were right. Now if the proposed threads were made, it would be ok to do that, because there would be no rules, right? It would work, except for the fact that it would do two things. It would first steal a lot of the posting from the other threads. As of today, forum games lost one of the last posters in the threads outside Last One to Post Wins, because no one posted outside that thread. That thread has basically killed off forum games. I don't feel bad; that thread has become everything the other threads were for me. But it did that.

 

The other thing that those threads would do is that they would spill into the other threads. For about a year, I only posted in Last One to Post Wins. I made about 2 posts that I can really remember that weren't in that thread. Each time, my post was the one that started a spam session in whatever thread I posted in. I posted in the April Fool's Day thread last year, and suddenly there were posts galore about stealing the cheese out of my pants. I posted in the Today thread in OT as they were approaching page 1000, and suddenly there's 5 pages of spam from 3 forum gamers that got deleted. Both times I came away unscathed because I didn't participate, but my mere presence started things. It would be the same.

 

So yeah. If stuff here didn't make sense, it's 1 o'clock in the morning. That's why.

[curtis95112]

Been a while since I posted in a runescape board. Huh.

 

I have three things to say. Both mostly about the mods. But first, I have to say I only have a vague idea of what happened.

 

First thing to say is this: if I had been around when this happened, I would have been on the efficiency people's side. I know this because I remember a particular person from a few years ago. A couple people really, but I want to focus on one person. Compfreak, who I'm sure a few of you remember, was a very efficiency oriented person. He made this huge post about why the fighter torso was worse than an adamant chain, even if you already had it. If you can't remember, or if you weren't there, he ended up leaving TIF (just for Zybez, not for a whole new forum) because he felt like he was going to be banned. He had a lot of action taken against him, i.e. posts deleted or edited with little explanation, that he felt was unwarranted. I don't think he was ever described as "elitist," or if he was, not as vehemently as some of those banned, but his story seems fairly similiar.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that the efficiency community tends to troll a little more. Again, I was 100% part of that group. And I do troll. All the time. The admins will attest to that. I get away with it because I'm careful about who I troll; as a forum gamer, I pretty much only talk to that group of people who are also forum gamers. So no one reports me or anything. No one cares.

 

But when you post where someone can be offended, it's different. That's when the mods start to care. So it's best not to troll. Especially in the most public section of the forum. I don't feel it, as I don't visit the RS boards ever, but I'm pretty sure this section still gets more traffic than the General Discussion boards. And it gets more traffic from new people, rather than being mostly older people.

 

I know that most of the efficiency community doesn't troll, or at least not purposely. This is the second thing. I'm pretty sure the mods are a little more vigilant towards the efficiency community, because it's been more of a problem in the past. And in a way, I feel that's right. It doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye to other trolling, but...well, it's like car insurance. I'm 17. I get charged more for car insurance. I can't do anything about that. It's just how it is. My age is not as good at driving as those older than me. They're more experienced. But State Farm doesn't just ignore the fact that some 50 year old has gotten in 4 wrecks that totaled his car in the past month. They charge him more than those around him, even though his base is lower.

 

It's similar with the two thought styles on playing. The people who are playing for fun are more relaxed; they aren't here to be the best, they just want to have fun. The efficient path is almost always more hectic. It takes more work to be efficient than to have fun. So the efficient people have more focus on the game. They troll more. (Ok, yeah, I probably could have connected that better. Whatever.) The mods can "charge" more for the efficiency people by watching them closer, but the fun guy who trolls still gets watched more than his fellow fun people.

 

The third thing I have to say involves the comment about a thread with no rules for people to troll in. I have some experience with that. In fact, there's a thread on TIF that's basically that. Or at least it was. It got steadily worse and worse, breaking just a few more rules. Our that was that no one visited the thread except the regulars anyway, and when new people showed up, we basically focused on them, and didn't do any of our rule shenanigans. The admins eventually came in and cracked down. Basically what they said was this. We would do something wrong. A mod would say, "Don't do that" and we'd stop. Until the mod left. Then we'd just keep posting like before. And the admins were right. Now if the proposed threads were made, it would be ok to do that, because there would be no rules, right? It would work, except for the fact that it would do two things. It would first steal a lot of the posting from the other threads. As of today, forum games lost one of the last posters in the threads outside Last One to Post Wins, because no one posted outside that thread. That thread has basically killed off forum games. I don't feel bad; that thread has become everything the other threads were for me. But it did that.

 

The other thing that those threads would do is that they would spill into the other threads. For about a year, I only posted in Last One to Post Wins. I made about 2 posts that I can really remember that weren't in that thread. Each time, my post was the one that started a spam session in whatever thread I posted in. I posted in the April Fool's Day thread last year, and suddenly there were posts galore about stealing the cheese out of my pants. I posted in the Today thread in OT as they were approaching page 1000, and suddenly there's 5 pages of spam from 3 forum gamers that got deleted. Both times I came away unscathed because I didn't participate, but my mere presence started things. It would be the same.

 

So yeah. If stuff here didn't make sense, it's 1 o'clock in the morning. That's why.

 

I understand every paragraph fully yet the whole thing only vaguely. :blink:

 

I agree with your point about efficient people trolling more. The causes of this could be worth looking into.

Is it because most people in the efficient camp are teens?

Is it because blatant stupidity looks different depending on your POV? Someone from the fun camp might think "Hmm... I'm pretty sure that's not right but I'm not certain. Oh well, each to his own" while an efficiency-oriented person could think "That is most definitely wrong and I've done 20 hours of rigorous testing to back that up. Also, that is the umpteenth time I've heard that crap in H&A."

Or is it that efficiency and trollophilia (yes I made that word up) go together somehow? Maybe people that have an efficiency-oriented mindset are inherently more likely to troll because the two are different manifestations of a single trait. Unwillingness to put up with stupidity in both themselves and others maybe?

[Sir_Squab]

Is it possible to have any sort of discussion involving the efficiency crowd without it turning into a flame fest full of personal grudges and experience from H&A?

That's a rhetorical question, the answer is no. Or so it seems...

 

Tired, late here, but I'm thinking that it would've been better if there was a metagame forum or something where people could post proofs or something. Like, why GS >Whip. If someone is clueless and asks you a question, you answer politely. When the 235th person asks you the exact same question, you start to get annoyed, you start viewing these people as idiotic rather then clueless, and you stop being so polite.

 

Not sure where I'm going with this >_<

 

an efficiency-oriented person could think "That is most definitely wrong and I've done 20 hours of rigorous testing to back that up. Also, that is the umpteenth time I've heard that crap in H&A."

I guess that's what I'm getting it. I think this is what causes most of the bluntness in H&A.

 

Dunno about the teenager part, leaning towards no but I'm biased (19 years old here.). Then again, I think 95%+ of the population would be biased for something like that.

[curtis95112]

I'm a teen too.

What I meant by the teenager part is that teens usually have more time on their hands than adults. They can be more serious about the game. Also, as much as it pains me to say this, teens in general seem to be less able to control their impulses than adults (statistically speaking of course, this in no way implies anything about any specific teenager.)

 

About your rhetorical question, it seems to happen once in a while. But I'm sure we'll be seeing less of that for some time. On the other hand, I'm not sure if that'll be an improvement.

[Tesset]

Yeah, I went somewhere with that "this is why efficiency people troll more often" thing, but I lost it while I was writing. :3

 

I have one more thing to say. I didn't realize it when I posted, but the fact that people are taking down their guides when they leave is dumb. Why do you feel the need to deprive the community of that? All you're doing is hurting people who have most likely done nothing to you, because the efficiency crowd either already knows it or is going with you, and the fun crowd has decided not to care about you. So it's just the newbs that are left. Honestly, that's very annoying.

 

And before you make the argument that they'll be outdated - so what? So's Kent's summoning guide, but it's still useful. So's the zombie monkey training guide, but it's still very fast melee training. If you aren't going to update your guides, just write that you aren't at the top and leave them up. Maybe link to the more updated version on your break off forum.