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Is anyone else just completely disappointed with everyone?


IHasChicken

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The trouble is you can't pick a side without being totally bias.

Both side sees the other as the brash/immature/annoying users.

 

I don't think you can say, however, that either side is correct in their view; just opposing viewpoints (which both have merits and flaws to them) and, for some at least, an unwillingness to live and let live as it were.

 

No, they just both say the other side is incorrect, lol.

 

Yeah, give them their own subforum. Maybe we can also give them their own bathroom, drinking fountains, seperate doors, etc. It'll be awesome. :thumbup:

 

No, but honestly, I'm amazed this even became an issue. Whoever didn't see the validity of their argument for a subforum and recognize the amount of people it would benefit must have some serious blinders on.

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@The-Ancients point:

The trouble is you can't pick a side without being totally bias and alienating one important set of users or another.

Both side sees the other as the brash/immature/annoying users.

 

I don't think you can say, however, that either side is correct in their view; just opposing viewpoints (which both have merits and flaws to them) and, for some at least, an unwillingness to live and let live as it were.

 

Also would be good if admins and/or mods would grace us with some sort of overview of the events this thread is about so everyone is on the same page precisely as to wtf it is about.

 

Maybe our forums won't appeal to everyone. And I'm fine with that. I want to be with a certain type of people. If your attitude is not toward promoting RS metagaming, I don't want you on my forums.

 

How is it alienation if both boards coexist on tip it? We'll just never talk to each other and that's fine with that. But mods have to recognize that they're going to have to make judgment calls, even if it seems biased.

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No, they just both say the other side is incorrect, lol.

 

Both sides have admitted to making mistakes.

~ Proud Father ~ Proud (Currently Deployed) Army National Guardsmen ~ Proud Lakota ~ Retired Tip.It Crew ~
 

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Maybe our forums won't appeal to everyone. And I'm fine with that. I want to be with a certain type of people. If your attitude is not toward promoting RS metagaming, I don't want you on my forums.

 

How is it alienation if both boards coexist on tip it? We'll just never talk to each other and that's fine with that. But mods have to recognize that they're going to have to make judgment calls, even if it seems biased.

 

I think that is fair enough; I think the issue arises in when that view is somewhat rudely enforced upon H&A threads in particular. It's not right to call advice wrong or in some cases flame people JUST because the advice they given isn't the absolute most efficient method. Sure post your efficiency advice and say its more efficient; then leave it at that. Let the OP decide if they wanna use your advice or others.

 

This of course doesn't apply to pointing out advice tht is genuinely wrong, just to calling advice wrong just for not being the most efficient (unless obv the op asked for most efficient)

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@The-Ancients point:

The trouble is you can't pick a side without being totally bias and alienating one important set of users or another.

Both side sees the other as the brash/immature/annoying users.

 

I don't think you can say, however, that either side is correct in their view; just opposing viewpoints (which both have merits and flaws to them) and, for some at least, an unwillingness to live and let live as it were.

 

Also would be good if admins and/or mods would grace us with some sort of overview of the events this thread is about so everyone is on the same page precisely as to wtf it is about.

Your premise is wrong, you can pick a side without alienating the other.

 

I have chosen to stay on Tip.It to an extent and also contribute to the new community. I can understand how people can have an archaic view about playing the game, the same way I can understand how people IRL still have archaic views about some things. (herp derp don't want to switch to more efficient light bulbs and save energy + money) I understand even if I don't necessarily approve, let each play the game to their own best.

 

I'm not the only one. Not every non-metagaming/efficiency thinks all other as inherently any of those things. That is why so many of them are currently posting on both forums. I personally only find a few people on these forums to be highly irritating. Guess who?

PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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Maybe our forums won't appeal to everyone. And I'm fine with that. I want to be with a certain type of people. If your attitude is not toward promoting RS metagaming, I don't want you on my forums.

 

How is it alienation if both boards coexist on tip it? We'll just never talk to each other and that's fine with that. But mods have to recognize that they're going to have to make judgment calls, even if it seems biased.

 

I think that is fair enough; I think the issue arises in when that view is somewhat rudely enforced upon H&A threads in particular. It's not right to call advice wrong or in some cases flame people JUST because the advice they given isn't the absolute most efficient method. Sure post your efficiency advice and say its more efficient; then leave it at that. Let the OP decide if they wanna use your advice or others.

 

This of course doesn't apply to pointing out advice tht is genuinely wrong, just to calling advice wrong just for not being the most efficient (unless obv the op asked for most efficient)

 

Take a look at <link removed>l. Out of all of those efficiency posts, how many of them have differing insight without saying "OH YOURE WRONG STFU". Saying that we do that is a complete misrepresentation and focuses on a small proportion of us. Most of the posts we make in H&A are genuinely trying to help.

 

Mod edit ~ Advertisement is not allowed outside of the Advertise your thing here! thread.

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I think it would be a good idea for meta-gamers to have their own forum on Tip.It. If things can remain under control and discussions civil, there isn't anything bad about it that I can see.

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Maybe our forums won't appeal to everyone. And I'm fine with that. I want to be with a certain type of people. If your attitude is not toward promoting RS metagaming, I don't want you on my forums.

 

How is it alienation if both boards coexist on tip it? We'll just never talk to each other and that's fine with that. But mods have to recognize that they're going to have to make judgment calls, even if it seems biased.

 

I think that is fair enough; I think the issue arises in when that view is somewhat rudely enforced upon H&A threads in particular. It's not right to call advice wrong or in some cases flame people JUST because the advice they given isn't the absolute most efficient method. Sure post your efficiency advice and say its more efficient; then leave it at that. Let the OP decide if they wanna use your advice or others.

 

This of course doesn't apply to pointing out advice tht is genuinely wrong, just to calling advice wrong just for not being the most efficient (unless obv the op asked for most efficient)

 

Take a look at <Link Removed>l. Out of all of those efficiency posts, how many of them have differing insight without saying "OH YOURE WRONG STFU". Saying that we all do that is a complete misrepresentation. Most of the posts we make in H&A are genuinely trying to help.

 

I by no means think you all do that.

Just saying that HAS happened previously and that the line of what is acceptable and not needs to be drawn there.

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I have chosen to stay on Tip.It to an extent and also contribute to the new community. I can understand how people can have an archaic view about playing the game, the same way I can understand how people IRL still have archaic views about some things. (herp derp don't want to switch to more efficient light bulbs and save energy + money) I understand even if I don't necessarily approve, let each play the game to their own best.

You see, that's the thing - by using archaic in a derogatory way you are putting yourselves above those who just want to play the game their way, which may not be the most efficient. You may have said you understand afterwards, but you still view your way as superior to theirs by calling it old and outdated.

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I think it would be a good idea for meta-gamers to have their own forum on Tip.It. If things can remain under control and discussions civil, there isn't anything bad about it that I can see.

 

The problem, though, is spill-over from other boards and members. As far as I know, they're not trying to split up H&A, and there are a lot of attitudes that I just don't think are constructive for H&A.

 

Also, a problem is picking who to moderate. There's really only one mod here who promotes RS metagaming. A lot of the mods here are fair but they don't really take sides, or are not as active both in game and on the forums as I would like. There are also a few mods that are completely out of touch and have made terrible judgment calls (like all of the recent bannings) that I want NOTHING to do with. I don't think admins would kick those mods out.

 

Another thing is that tip it would never include a clause like "action will be taken against players who are deemed disruptive to the metagaming community". AFAIK the admins don't think that kind of clause is fair. I think it's totally vital for us to select the community that we want.

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I think it would be a good idea for meta-gamers to have their own forum on Tip.It. If things can remain under control and discussions civil, there isn't anything bad about it that I can see.

 

The problem, though, is spill-over from other boards and members. As far as I know, they're not trying to split up H&A, and there are a lot of attitudes that I just don't think are constructive for H&A.

 

Also, a problem is picking who to moderate. There's really only one mod here who promotes RS metagaming. A lot of the mods here are fair but they don't really take sides, or are not as active both in game and on the forums as I would like. There are also a few mods that are completely out of touch and have made terrible judgment calls (like all of the recent bannings) that I want NOTHING to do with. I don't think admins would kick those mods out.

 

Another thing is that tip it would never include a clause like "action will be taken against players who are deemed disruptive to the metagaming community". AFAIK the admins don't think that kind of clause is fair. I think it's totally vital for us to select the community that we want.

If the administrators and moderators are willing to give the crowd that caused the most disruption on this forum that I have seen since I have been here a second chance, I think you should give them a second chance as well. Don't take this personally, but you're not exactly in the best position to be making demands for who should moderate these hypothetical forums.

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I don't see the huge need for metagamer specific mods (aside from in tht subforum if you guys get it which wuld be good for you)

After all in terms of general forums, eg H&A, it doesn't matter what game style they use as long as the moderating is kept equally and exclusively to the use of derogatory terms and flaming regardless of which party it is agaisnt.

 

Good example oddly enough cropped up above by using words such as "outdated" or "archaic" which clearly have negative connotations or on the flip side I suppose terms like "efficiency nerd" etc are the kinda of terms tht need to be stamped out when giving advice collectively as they clearly inciting annoyance and flaming.

 

Also I don;t think a rule clause about disrupting 1 specific member group is needed. Yes a forum specific rule in a meta-gaming forum; but not an overall one. Same as clan forums have specific rules that dont apply elsewhere.

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I think it would be a good idea for meta-gamers to have their own forum on Tip.It. If things can remain under control and discussions civil, there isn't anything bad about it that I can see.

 

The problem, though, is spill-over from other boards and members. As far as I know, they're not trying to split up H&A, and there are a lot of attitudes that I just don't think are constructive for H&A.

 

Also, a problem is picking who to moderate. There's really only one mod here who promotes RS metagaming. A lot of the mods here are fair but they don't really take sides, or are not as active both in game and on the forums as I would like. There are also a few mods that are completely out of touch and have made terrible judgment calls (like all of the recent bannings) that I want NOTHING to do with. I don't think admins would kick those mods out.

 

Another thing is that tip it would never include a clause like "action will be taken against players who are deemed disruptive to the metagaming community". AFAIK the admins don't think that kind of clause is fair. I think it's totally vital for us to select the community that we want.

 

Didn't another mod make a post saying mods can't ban? I'm asking genuinly as being Crew, I know nothing of the Mod side (in fact, I rarely talk with them).

 

As with your subforum, if a poster "disrupts" a metagaming forum, would that not be considered trolling?

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If you think a lot of the bans were justified, then you don't really have a good grasp on the situation. Either that or I completely disagree with your sense of justice.

Of course the porn and other harmful things should have been acted against. But those were actions that were out of our control and pretty much did not represent us.

 

I'm completely open to talking to mods/admins. I want them to talk to me. I'm posting my opinions here for them to see right out in the open. Only a few have approached me.

 

Some of the mods I've pretty much made my mind on though. Through years of observation.

 

As with your subforum, if a poster "disrupts" a metagaming forum, would that not be considered trolling?

Trolling = intentionally bothering someone else for your own amusement

which is different than genuinely having a different opinion

 

After all in terms of general forums, eg H&A, it doesn't matter what game style they use as long as the moderating is kept equally and exclusively to the use of derogatory terms and flaming regardless of which party it is agaisnt.

That's if you want your forums to be centered only around community. We want both community AND an attitude of metagame promotion.

 

Also I don;t think a rule clause about disrupting 1 specific member group is needed. Yes a forum specific rule in a meta-gaming forum; but not an overall one. Same as clan forums have specific rules that dont apply elsewhere.

Yeah and I think a global clause like that would be unfair. But that's not what I'm pushing for.

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It seems like the best plan of action (if you ask me) would be something like this:

 

Give Help and Advice a subforum called "Efficiency" where people can post all of their metagame, serious questions, and people who are interested and knowledgeable in this topic can post to their hearts content. Hell, maybe it can go so far as giving a select few members of the efficiency camp moderator powers within the Efficiency subforum.

 

However, it is well known (and admitted by several members of the efficiency camp) that efficiency people can be overly blunt. While posting in the Efficiency subforum, they could be as blunt as a beer bottle if they wanted, but while in other sections of the forum (Most importantly GD) they would have to behave a bit.

 

Just my two cents, its probly never gonna happen anyways.

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I have chosen to stay on Tip.It to an extent and also contribute to the new community. I can understand how people can have an archaic view about playing the game, the same way I can understand how people IRL still have archaic views about some things. (herp derp don't want to switch to more efficient light bulbs and save energy + money) I understand even if I don't necessarily approve, let each play the game to their own best.

You see, that's the thing - by using archaic in a derogatory way you are putting yourselves above those who just want to play the game their way, which may not be the most efficient. You may have said you understand afterwards, but you still view your way as superior to theirs by calling it old and outdated.

 

Well, I do respect people who play the game in a more modern, metagaming based way simply because I feel that they are generally more dedicated to the game.

 

I say I understand people who play less efficiently because I get how a person could be turned off by that sort of playstyle but still just want to mess around in the game. I play some games like that (DotA) and it really pisses off pro players when I'm just goofing around with an unorthodox build but I don't care because I'm having a blast. I could choose to play with all the mainstream strategies but I find them boring so I don't.

 

So in a way, I can sympathize with both sides here. The issue is that a lot of people on the other side are massive trolls and flamebaiters but now have a sort of moral high-ground after the actions of a few of the metagamers.

PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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Super moderators and Admins are the only people who can ban. Global & local moderators do not have this ability.

 

Speaking as a user and not a moderator, I find the efficiency discussions very interesting. Whilst I do not play the most efficiently (which, I'm hoping to change) at the moment, I genuinely think that a 'metagaming' forum/sub-forum on Tip.It would be of great benefit.

 

Both sides have made errors and wrongdoings, and it would be ignorant to suggest that either party made no mistakes.

 

There is at least one other moderator who cares about efficiency, which the metagamers know.

 

I do hope that both sides can get to an agreement, to at least keep the efficiency topics and guides here.

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After all in terms of general forums, eg H&A, it doesn't matter what game style they use as long as the moderating is kept equally and exclusively to the use of derogatory terms and flaming regardless of which party it is agaisnt.

That's if you want your forums to be centered only around community. We want both community AND an attitude of metagame promotion.

 

Well that's just not gonna happen.

Tip.it is about serving the runescape community as a whole; there no good reason for them to moderate in favour of metagamers any more than there is to moderator in favour of pkers or skillers or questers or pures.

 

I don;t see how it can remotely be an issue (assuming meta-gamers are given their own subforum) that they simply when posting in the shared area (aka not in the sub-forum) do not use derogatory terms towards non-metagamers and expect if they do so to be punished just the same as someone who uses any derogatory terms towards others.

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It's not for the community as a whole. There are specific forums for Pkers and clans, metagamers can have one too. They also have specific rules ect.

PM me in game anytime

 

It's a lot easier then that for an idiot to sound smart on the internet.

 

That's exactly what you're doing right now... just saying.

 

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After all in terms of general forums, eg H&A, it doesn't matter what game style they use as long as the moderating is kept equally and exclusively to the use of derogatory terms and flaming regardless of which party it is agaisnt.

That's if you want your forums to be centered only around community. We want both community AND an attitude of metagame promotion.

 

Well that's just not gonna happen.

Tip.it is about serving the runescape community as a whole; there no good reason for them to moderate in favour of metagamers any more than there is to moderator in favour of pkers or skillers or questers or pures.

 

I don;t see how it can remotely be an issue (assuming meta-gamers are given their own subforum) that they simply when posting in the shared area (aka not in the sub-forum) do not use derogatory terms towards non-metagamers and expect if they do so to be punished just the same as someone who uses any derogatory terms towards others.

 

Unless metagamers have their own space. Then it's perfectly fine for mods to mod under the context of promoting metagaming in addition to community.

 

Away from trolls and idiots, we clearly have the capability of acting civilly in giving advice. It's tip it's lack of initiative in action against these users that has led to the problem we have today.

 

Anyway, I'm done talking about this for now. Mods / admins are still free to PM me whenever they want.

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Ever wanted to find street prices of RS items? Check out the SPOLI Index

 

Nex Drops: Pernix Cowl, Pernix Chaps, Torva Helm, Torva Platebody, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Chaps, Virtus Robe Legs, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Mask, Torva Legs, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Zaryte Bow, Virtus Robe Legs, Virtus Robe Top, Virtus Robe Top, Torva Platelegs, Zaryte Bow, Pernix Body, Torva Platelegs, Torva Platelegs, Virtus Robe Top

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I don't see the huge need for metagamer specific mods (aside from in tht subforum if you guys get it which wuld be good for you)

After all in terms of general forums, eg H&A, it doesn't matter what game style they use as long as the moderating is kept equally and exclusively to the use of derogatory terms and flaming regardless of which party it is agaisnt.

 

Not everyone is an efficiency freak. Some people like to play the game how they want. Quit trying to sway him when he has repeatedly said he wants to train a specific way.

lol yeah lets have those sorts of people mod h&a, after all it doesn't matter what game style they use.

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I don't see the "promoting metagaming" thing at all.

 

As long as there is no bias AGAINST metagaming in moderation, there's no issue.

It just seems to again here come down to metagamers think they should be allowed to be derogatory towards non-metagamers and not have the moderators penalise them for it.

It's not a case afterall that mods have acted agaisnt people because they are metagamers, it has been because they have flamed or been derogatory or trolled.

 

@Cheezedude I clearly said "as long as the moderating is kept equally and exclusively to the use of derogatory terms and flaming regardless of which party it is agaisnt." Clearly the person you quoted is NOT someone who would be suitable if they hold that attitude. But you don't need to be pro-metagaming or even a metagamer to subjectively moderate on derogatory terminology or flaming regardless of who is using it and why.

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