Is anyone else just completely disappointed with everyone?

[curtis95112]

Yeah, I went somewhere with that "this is why efficiency people troll more often" thing, but I lost it while I was writing. :3

 

I have one more thing to say. I didn't realize it when I posted, but the fact that people are taking down their guides when they leave is dumb. Why do you feel the need to deprive the community of that? All you're doing is hurting people who have most likely done nothing to you, because the efficiency crowd either already knows it or is going with you, and the fun crowd has decided not to care about you. So it's just the newbs that are left. Honestly, that's very annoying.

 

And before you make the argument that they'll be outdated - so what? So's Kent's summoning guide, but it's still useful. So's the zombie monkey training guide, but it's still very fast melee training. If you aren't going to update your guides, just write that you aren't at the top and leave them up. Maybe link to the more updated version on your break off forum.

 

I agree. It would have been better for the community if they left it there. However, I can understand the motivations behind the action. Since they're moving to a new site, having sole rights to the guide would seem very appealing. And the admins did well to comply with his request. Even disregarding the ethical arguments, I don't think this separation will be permanent unless he who must not be named quits playing RS. It seems bans are rarely literally permanent. A long time later, he'll come back to post guides again. That probably wouldn't happen if the admins refused to remove his guide.

[Obtaurian]

Of our group of friends, most of us are in college. Just sayin'.

[muggiwhplar]

Of our group of friends, most of us are in college. Just sayin'.

 

That makes some of this week's events even more disappointing :\

[xpx]

They shouldn't be unbanned tbh :thumbdown:

Thanks for all the support. It meant alot to us in those dire times and i'm not sure if we could have done it without the communities heartwarming response. :thumbsup:

[Obtaurian]

Of our group of friends, most of us are in college. Just sayin'.

 

That makes some of this week's events even more disappointing :\

 

Depends on what events you're referring to. Keep in mind that a lot of things that happened had nothing to do with us, even if it was under our flag, so to speak.

[Saradomin_Mage]

They shouldn't be unbanned tbh :thumbdown:

Thanks for all the support. It meant alot to us in those dire times and i'm not sure if we could have done it without the communities heartwarming response. :thumbsup:

Naraku's just trolling.

Ilu xpx <3

[Youmu]

So, it seems things have settled down now.

 

Can we all be friends once again? <3:

[la la la]

If you like, we could have all submitting users write up a properly written article with cited sources which would be then reviewed by a group of highly qualified players before the post is allowed to be displayed.

 

Or we can just continue to converse the way we could be with some level of civility accompanied by pieces of actual evidence that can be understood by most of the community.

 

On some level, common experience makes conversation easier, but on the other end, if you just wanted to have a consortium of high level players, we could just make a subforum which only allows registered high level users to post, but geez, how would we even regulate that kind of thing without getting too complicated again

 

What even qualifies a user as high leveled? You'll get at least ten different opinions. How do we know that these players will handle themselves maturely? There are a lot of high level players who haven't learned a thing about communicating with other people besides hitting them in the face with a dragon claw while spraying a stream of gibberish at them.

 

So...what's your take?

 

EDIT: Unrelated note, but if you really expect stuff like the Times to be relevant to your interests, maybe....just maybe, you might consider starting to write for them, to let other people know that they can take that kind of initiative since they're part of the community too. If you hate the articles that much, do something about it.

You really don't understand this at all.

 

First, our group does not have many pkers. It's a pretty immature community as a whole.

 

Many people in our group are particularly bothered that tip.it now says they have the rights to the guides written on the forums due to a catch in the rules. There is no way they would ever write for the times.

 

In addition, you blow the whole "researched" post idea out of proportion. We simply want numbers and reasoning to support claims. Nothing too difficult.

[xpx]

So, it seems things have settled down now.

 

Can we all be friends once again? <3:

It's a big ask when you've been wrongfully banned and part of the community will still kick when you are down. There are obviously alot of issues that need solving and i don't see anything improving until some hard decisions are made.

[curtis95112]

They shouldn't be unbanned tbh :thumbdown:

Thanks for all the support. It meant alot to us in those dire times and i'm not sure if we could have done it without the communities heartwarming response. :thumbsup:

 

Good to see you're back.

 

Edit: And Naraku is worse than Golv these days.

[strilmus]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we can't stop people from saying dumb things if they're not explicitly trolling in the first place, and that even if it happens often, it isn't something that you react to by tearing down a large chunk of the forums in a hellstorm of fury.

 

That goes for all sides of the matter.

 

The stereotypical childish pker was just an example of high levels not being directly correlated to being able to behave in public but not representative of the entire high level community, so I was dismissing the separation of the group from the whole as a viable answer to resolving the issue if those users were still present. If you wanted to stop them from entering the discussion, once again the whole vetting thing comes up and it's kind of impractical anyway unless your goal was just to have a small group of people tossing the same ideas around at each other with a high point of entry blocking everybody else.

 

As for the guides I wasn't even talking about that, but even if the site does own the guides on a technicality, I do not feel that the site has the moral right to hold onto them against the creator's will unless they were specifically submitted to tip.it as official guides, rather than this informal setting where they are just being displayed for mutual benefit

 

In any case I would appreciate it if you could take my statements with a large grain of salt if I have to keep talking about the matter on the grounds of not understanding anything ever.

 

As much as it sounds even dumber to try, it feels like some of the more common problems arise when we regard other people as being beyond conversation with each other.

[Sy_Accursed]

tbf the whole tip.it owns anything submitted to the forums things is a pretty standard t&C of any website out there; I don't see the issue.

The same policy exists in RSOF T&Cs, facebook, myspace etc. etc.

Its a standard policy that covers sites being able to use stuff users posted if they so wish; but its never something enforce (except by douche sites) to the extent of OMG WE OWN THIS NOW U HAS NO RIGHTS.

Heck even if they do "take" your guide for the main website they give you credit.

[dogfever]

So, it seems things have settled down now.

 

Can we all be friends once again? <3:

It's a big ask when you've been wrongfully banned and part of the community will still kick when you are down. There are obviously alot of issues that need solving and i don't see anything improving until some hard decisions are made.

 

I don't think you should take the statements of a few trolls as representative of the general feelings of the TIF users towards the efficiency movement or your and the other figureheads of the movement personally. Actions committed under a flag aren't always sanctioned or supported by the leadership or the majority as I think your movement also has recent experience of.

 

I for one will miss several members of your movement if they choose not to return to these boards (although I will join your boards as well) some not so much. Equally, I would miss a number of remaining TIFers if they left and others not so much.

 

As regards your issues with the moderators (not specifically mentioned in your post but another facet of this dispute) I am pleased to see that some of the contentious bans have been reversed - it shows that the system is functional to an extent albeit not perfect. However, I am not quick to judge the staff involved because I don't underestimate the difficulty of the job that they do. I'm sure there are always better ways of doing something and always improvements to be made but TIF is a very large entity now and necessarily change is slow but I think there have been enough posts from admins on this thread to show that they are open to change - perhaps not as fast as some people would like but the intent is still good. Maybe your new forum will present and prove (as per some of the evidence based approaches vaunted in above posts) new ways of operating a site.

 

I don't think it is in anyone's best interests to dwell on the past, and to define 'sides' in the dispute would seem to be somewhat simplistic as the immature or inflammatory actions and statements of individuals are ascribed to the 'side' rather than seen for what they really are. Both TIF and the efficiency movement have trolls but I wouldn't recommend judging either forum on the basis of a few unrepresentative idiots and misguided people.

 

I am looking forward to seeing what you guys do over there as much as I look forward to spending time going back to lurking over here.

 

 

EDIT: Just to point out that the discussion about taking 'sides' is a general observation and not directed.

[pulli23]

Wow, you are still wondering about tip.it's IP?

 

Let me tell: google's IP is far worse.. And they make use of it in a far worse manner: a friend of mine once used google to share information - came out it valueable information.. When google figured this out they didn't remove it, no they claimed the rights on the information and actually prevented us from doing any further research. There goes 5 years of research down the litter bin.

 

 

Yet will this stop you from using google spreadsheets? - NO cause with google you know it makes no sense to complain, you won't get e-famous when you suddenly remove your spreadsheets from google and blame google for this. The only reason it seems you actually posted the information was to get e-famous, why else would you have a problem with someone reposting it for you?

[Carl]

I'll be glad to see the back of some of them, the forum was never this hectic and trolling was never this bad. The clamp down on trolling should have been a warning to stop being disruptive, being disruptive after that warning is just pure idiocy. And to think it was "unjust" because what you said isn't half as bad as what you said before is just developmentally delayed.

[Nifflin]

The guy who posted porn went to far. It is my opinion that everyone else who left/was banned will be better off in the new forums. The type of knowledge they have is invaluable and it is good that they are forming an environment to help nurture it. Tip.It currently is far from that environment. Darkdude really disappointed me during the drama more then any other single person, the treatment of the Nech guide is disgraceful.

[Thus]

So from what I understand it's people who are efficient vs. noobs?

 

Do I have this right?

[pulli23]

The guy who posted porn went to far. It is my opinion that everyone else who left/was banned will be better off in the new forums. The type of knowledge they have is invaluable and it is good that they are forming an environment to help nurture it. Tip.It currently is far from that environment. Darkdude really disappointed me during the drama more then any other single person, the treatment of the Nech guide is disgraceful.

Yes he disappointed me too..

 

Why remove a guide for such a dramaqueen who is only in it for recognition? Knowlenge should be shared, and not be limited by 1 person's emotions!

[Obtaurian]

The guy who posted porn went to far. It is my opinion that everyone else who left/was banned will be better off in the new forums. The type of knowledge they have is invaluable and it is good that they are forming an environment to help nurture it. Tip.It currently is far from that environment. Darkdude really disappointed me during the drama more then any other single person, the treatment of the Nech guide is disgraceful.

Yes he disappointed me too..

 

Why remove a guide for such a dramaqueen who is only in it for recognition? Knowlenge should be shared, and not be limited by 1 person's emotions!

 

I agree that knowledge should be shared. However, somethings were necessary in order to bring about the changes needed. In any case, the guide is not gone, it's just in a different place. For now.

[Vulxai]

So from what I understand it's people who are efficient vs. noobs?

 

Do I have this right?

 

No, it's a certain group (who happen to be efficient) vs. some staff. Your argument is mainly in H&A, and even then it's not always true, as they would flame anyone who gave advice OTHER than their advice (not all of them, but a few of them), even when the other advice was a valid piece of advice for those who aren't seeking 100% efficiency.

[Carl]

The guy who posted porn went to far. It is my opinion that everyone else who left/was banned will be better off in the new forums. The type of knowledge they have is invaluable and it is good that they are forming an environment to help nurture it. Tip.It currently is far from that environment. Darkdude really disappointed me during the drama more then any other single person, the treatment of the Nech guide is disgraceful.

Yes he disappointed me too..

 

Why remove a guide for such a dramaqueen who is only in it for recognition? Knowlenge should be shared, and not be limited by 1 person's emotions!

 

I agree that knowledge should be shared. However, somethings were necessary in order to bring about the changes needed. In any case, the guide is not gone, it's just in a different place. For now.

 

Yes, removing something really brings about a whole lot of change while you're going. Trying to justify it...Just.... :mellow: :thumbup:

[Nifflin]

The guy who posted porn went to far. It is my opinion that everyone else who left/was banned will be better off in the new forums. The type of knowledge they have is invaluable and it is good that they are forming an environment to help nurture it. Tip.It currently is far from that environment. Darkdude really disappointed me during the drama more then any other single person, the treatment of the Nech guide is disgraceful.

Yes he disappointed me too..

 

Why remove a guide for such a dramaqueen who is only in it for recognition? Knowlenge should be shared, and not be limited by 1 person's emotions!

 

I agree that knowledge should be shared. However, somethings were necessary in order to bring about the changes needed. In any case, the guide is not gone, it's just in a different place. For now.

 

Yes, removing something really brings about a whole lot of change while you're going. Trying to justify it...Just.... :mellow: :thumbup:

 

If a community banned me after I put hundreds of hours into helping their users then I sure as hell would want to be able to take my guide down. Yes, it brings change, it says "don't take my work for granted, I'll bring it with me when I find somewhere that appreciates me."

 

Maybe you personally don't think so but I though the Grimy Sheets were the best thing in the AoW. Now that they are gone I see little reason to visit that part of the forums anymore.

[Carl]

The guy who posted porn went to far. It is my opinion that everyone else who left/was banned will be better off in the new forums. The type of knowledge they have is invaluable and it is good that they are forming an environment to help nurture it. Tip.It currently is far from that environment. Darkdude really disappointed me during the drama more then any other single person, the treatment of the Nech guide is disgraceful.

Yes he disappointed me too..

 

Why remove a guide for such a dramaqueen who is only in it for recognition? Knowlenge should be shared, and not be limited by 1 person's emotions!

 

I agree that knowledge should be shared. However, somethings were necessary in order to bring about the changes needed. In any case, the guide is not gone, it's just in a different place. For now.

 

Yes, removing something really brings about a whole lot of change while you're going. Trying to justify it...Just.... :mellow: :thumbup:

 

If a community banned me after I put hundreds of hours into helping their users then I sure as hell would want to be able to take my guide down. Yes, it brings change, it says "don't take my work for granted, I'll bring it with me when I find somewhere that appreciates me."

 

Maybe you personally don't think so but I though the Grimy Sheets were the best thing in the AoW. Now that they are gone I see little reason to visit that part of the forums anymore.

 

Yes, and when them people take advantage of the community and constantly cause disruption and beat-down other users, they can do nothing but expect to get banned. Retaliation is laughable in this matter.

 

Should the rules have been respected no-one would have been in this mess. People didn't just say "Lets ban them".

[Vulxai]

Grimy's sheets were awesome, however Blade was a huge troll. Yes, he did some good work, but his trolling was never ending. Most of his posts I saw were nothing but troll posts. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. But you did agree that he wanted it taken down in spite.

[Sy_Accursed]

I find the attitude of some users appalling in so much as they seem to be genuinely arguing that they SHOULD be allowed to troll, flame and be derogatory just because they have written a few guides that help others and can take those guides away if they so wish.