Third Bind Guide and/or Discussion.

[I_am_Not]

i agree with bruno honestly it's pretty dumb that "doing it right"(in terms of xp/hour, Golv, don't pop a blood vessel) disregards almost the entire skill

 

 

don't really see where jagex gets off designing a skill that well, but the best method ignores nearly everything

[LitterBug]

How about remove penalties and bonuses and all that [cabbage] and just make it a set exp per minute spent in the floor. Like conquest :D

 

I mean, theoretically - that's not a bad idea.

At least this way - people would actually DG from 1-120 as opposed to 60-120.

 

I like some parts of the idea, however:

-this punishes efficiency/high combat

-as people said earlier - you could just afk

-how would this scale with your level?

 

I do agree that some of the penalties are too harsh.

Dying once or twice puts a pretty huge dent into your exp and a lot of the times, it's due to a sudden lag spike at bosses

While punishing death does make sense (so you can't just run around with turmoil on at all times), 14% (or whatever it is) for the first death is a little bit outrageous.

[Obtaurian]

Nice discussion of third binds going on here. :thumbdown:

[Vex]

Nice discussion of third binds going on here. :thumbdown:

 

Embrace the Platebeard

 

Get mad

 

??????????

 

My work is done

[Hamstie]

In before primal pick really becomes the best bind :P

[green9090]

Post a troll/joke idea

Like 5 people take it seriously

It spawns a discussion

MFW

[Dragonlordjl]

Post a troll/joke idea

Like 5 people take it seriously

It spawns a discussion

MFW

:razz:

 

Y U B TROLLIN IN DAT METAGAME FORUM BRO?

[jettrider]

I am still trying to get back my hood for my second bind before I worry about my third slot...

 

Done solo meds 18-35 for my past four resets, seen plenty of spiders but no drops. I'd fork over a couple million tokens for one

[CharlieBrown]

lol 2 am.

 

thanks xpx <3

[gago]

I'm sticking to my plate for now as i don't DG much anyways.

When i'll get back to it a bit more seriously, i'll start considering between gloves and CCS.

[Sly_Wizard]

Empowered fire staff > Celestial catalytic staff

[xpx]

Empowered fire staff > Celestial catalytic staff

Only assuming you can't get your hands on any elemental runes. With water-fire runes you do 1,6-25% more damage, while you stand to lose 9% dps by not having any runes. Easily worth it if you are any good at dungeoneering(elemental runes are easy to get from drops as well as crafted at remote rune altars).

[Obtaurian]

Empowered fire staff > Celestial catalytic staff

Only assuming you can't get your hands on any elemental runes. With water-fire runes you do 1,6-25% more damage, while you stand to lose 9% dps by not having any runes. Easily worth it if you are any good at dungeoneering(elemental runes are easy to get from drops as well as crafted at remote rune altars).

 

This. Considering I already addressed the issue of fire runes in the guide, I'm curious as to why Sly decided to bring it up without a semblance of an argument to back his "point."

[xpx]

This. Considering I already addressed the issue of fire runes in the guide, I'm curious as to why Sly decided to bring it up without a semblance of an argument to back his "point."

Well, assuming he is a terrible dungeoneer, there is no point to prove.

[ghjkl]

Empowered fire staff > Celestial catalytic staff

Only assuming you can't get your hands on any elemental runes. With water-fire runes you do 1,6-25% more damage, while you stand to lose 9% dps by not having any runes. Easily worth it if you are any good at dungeoneering(elemental runes are easy to get from drops as well as crafted at remote rune altars).

As a 4th bind I'm binding emp fire staff.

If you key a lot, you wont have time to make fire runes without slowing the team down, and if you key a lot, the extra dps increase from the ccstaff vs empowered won't be used as often.

With blood neck+ turm, melee becomes better on zombies/skeles, so mage will only be used on forgotten warriors and demons. Imo the time needed to craft fire runes does not justify the extra damage from the ccstaff on just a few monsters.

Of course if your style is primarily to mage everything and switch to melee for mages/warriors, then ccstaff is better if you don't key a lot.

[Obtaurian]

Empowered fire staff > Celestial catalytic staff

Only assuming you can't get your hands on any elemental runes. With water-fire runes you do 1,6-25% more damage, while you stand to lose 9% dps by not having any runes. Easily worth it if you are any good at dungeoneering(elemental runes are easy to get from drops as well as crafted at remote rune altars).

As a 4th bind I'm binding emp fire staff.

If you key a lot, you wont have time to make fire runes without slowing the team down, and if you key a lot, the extra dps increase from the ccstaff vs empowered won't be used as often.

With blood neck+ turm, melee becomes better on zombies/skeles, so mage will only be used on forgotten warriors and demons. Imo the time needed to craft fire runes does not justify the extra damage from the ccstaff on just a few monsters.

Of course if your style is primarily to mage everything and switch to melee for mages/warriors, then ccstaff is better if you don't key a lot.

 

I definitely agree with this. I mean, if you knew your teammates would get fire runes for you, I could see celestial staff being better for keyers, but I can't see it working very effectively. Hood + 2h + blood neck + emp staff would be great for a keyer.

[xpx]

CCS will still be better as a keyer if you learn to pick up runes. Seriously, while many of us don't even notice any at all, you get around 120 casts of water-fire at start and can easily get another 40-70 just from looking at drops a bit more closely(or having a team drop them on ggs). Runes are only an issue if you are ignorant about them- on bosses, where the mage matters most, you'd definitely have fire surges anyway.

[green9090]

I'd probably opt for primal gauntlets over empowered fire as a keyer. It's not too hard to get your hands on a fire staff, especially with a half decent team, and the ultra melee offense would be pretty awesome. +23 str with blood neck and gaunts o.o

[Sly_Wizard]

This. Considering I already addressed the issue of fire runes in the guide, I'm curious as to why Sly decided to bring it up without a semblance of an argument to back his "point."

Well, assuming he is a terrible dungeoneer, there is no point to prove.

 

It's all about time and how quickly you can be effective.

 

I'm assuming you have a CSB here. 125 fire surges means 1,250 fire runes. Assuming you get three fires from one essence (that's what I get), you'll have to buy (or find) approximately 417 essence before you can start using fire surge with a CCS. Either way, you're getting out of the proverbial gate slower. If you buy the essence, which you'll most likely have to do, at 50 coins per essence, that works out to you needing 20,850 coins before you can start casting fire surge. Prior to that, you'll more-or-less be using a CCS boosted wind surge which has a lower DPS than does fire surge with an empowered fire staff.

 

Now, if you're like me and you mostly mage the whole way through dungeoneering, then you'll probably need more than the initial 125 surges contained in a CSB. If you were to use the log-out trick (which, ftr, I don't) with a CSB, then you would never have to make any runes while using an empowered fire staff, whereas even if you used a CCS and used the log-out trick, you'd still have to make another 1,250 fire runes, meaning another 20,850 coins and time spent runecrafting versus being useful to your team (i.e., opening doors or clearing rooms). Even if you didn't use the log-out trick, you'd still end up needing more money and spend more time runecrafting than you would if you used an empowered fire staff, which means less time being useful to your team unless they're going to wait around for you.

 

Most monsters you'd mage have such low magic defense anyway, to the point where the +30% damage on the CCS is negligible when compared to the time saved using an empowered fire staff. And, yes, I used to own a CCS until I got rid of it in favor of an empowered fire staff. Best decision ever.

[Quyneax]

You can start casting at 250 fires and gather more as the floor comes along. You can also use water, earth and fire rune drops.

[Obtaurian]

This. Considering I already addressed the issue of fire runes in the guide, I'm curious as to why Sly decided to bring it up without a semblance of an argument to back his "point."

Well, assuming he is a terrible dungeoneer, there is no point to prove.

 

It's all about time and how quickly you can be effective.

 

I'm assuming you have a CSB here. 125 fire surges means 1,250 fire runes. Assuming you get three fires from one essence (that's what I get), you'll have to buy (or find) approximately 417 essence before you can start using fire surge with a CCS. Either way, you're getting out of the proverbial gate slower. If you buy the essence, which you'll most likely have to do, at 50 coins per essence, that works out to you needing 20,850 coins before you can start casting fire surge. Prior to that, you'll more-or-less be using a CCS boosted wind surge which has a lower DPS than does fire surge with an empowered fire staff.

 

Now, if you're like me and you mostly mage the whole way through dungeoneering, then you'll probably need more than the initial 125 surges contained in a CSB. If you were to use the log-out trick (which, ftr, I don't) with a CSB, then you would never have to make any runes while using an empowered fire staff, whereas even if you used a CCS and used the log-out trick, you'd still have to make another 1,250 fire runes, meaning another 20,850 coins and time spent runecrafting versus being useful to your team (i.e., opening doors or clearing rooms). Even if you didn't use the log-out trick, you'd still end up needing more money and spend more time runecrafting than you would if you used an empowered fire staff, which means less time being useful to your team unless they're going to wait around for you.

 

Most monsters you'd mage have such low magic defense anyway, to the point where the +30% damage on the CCS is negligible when compared to the time saved using an empowered fire staff. And, yes, I used to own a CCS until I got rid of it in favor of an empowered fire staff. Best decision ever.

 

Ah, I think I remember you. You have low melee stats, correct? It would be extremely rare for the type of player this guide is intended for to actually run out of casts. A good CCS user will have fire surges within the first couple rooms of a floor. What you're describing is poor use of a CCS, and I've already outlined various ways to collect fire runes lossless. I realize that not everyone is willing to put in the effort to optimize their DPS, but this guide really doesn't cater to that type of attitude.

[Sir_Squab]

My solution to this is to make my own emp fire staffs, and bind something other then CCS at 100. Ideally a blood neck. Maybe a rapier till then? Lol, I'd have to get 100 DG first though.

[Sly_Wizard]

You can start casting at 250 fires and gather more as the floor comes along. You can also use water, earth and fire rune drops.

 

25 casts will last you maybe four GD's.

 

Ah' date=' I think I remember you. You have low melee stats, correct? It would be extremely rare for the type of player this guide is intended for to actually run out of casts. A good CCS user will have fire surges within the first couple rooms of a floor. What you're describing is poor use of a CCS, and I've already outlined various ways to collect fire runes lossless. I realize that not everyone is willing to put in the effort to optimize their DPS, but this guide really doesn't cater to that type of attitude.[/quote']

 

I can tell you right now that what you're describing is totally non-realistic for the average individual using a CCS, because monsters don't drop nearly enough fire runes compared to the rate at which you use them. Yeah, you can get fire runes within the first couple of rooms, but they'll most likely be gone in a few rooms, too, because you really do use them up that fast. What you suggest us only feasible if you're sparingly maging, but that's a waste because there is no point in binding a CCS if you're not going to be using mage as your main combat choice. You'd be better off barehand casting. I'd be shocked to learn if anyone on this thread has a CCS bound who isn't maging most of the time.

[Obtaurian]

You can start casting at 250 fires and gather more as the floor comes along. You can also use water, earth and fire rune drops.

 

25 casts will last you maybe four GD's.

 

Ah' date=' I think I remember you. You have low melee stats, correct? It would be extremely rare for the type of player this guide is intended for to actually run out of casts. A good CCS user will have fire surges within the first couple rooms of a floor. What you're describing is poor use of a CCS, and I've already outlined various ways to collect fire runes lossless. I realize that not everyone is willing to put in the effort to optimize their DPS, but this guide really doesn't cater to that type of attitude.[/quote']

 

I can tell you right now that what you're describing is totally non-realistic for the average individual using a CCS, because monsters don't drop nearly enough fire runes compared to the rate at which you use them. Yeah, you can get fire runes within the first couple of rooms, but they'll most likely be gone in a few rooms, too, because you really do use them up that fast. What you suggest us only feasible if you're sparingly maging, but that's a waste because there is no point in binding a CCS if you're not going to be using mage as your main combat choice. You'd be better off barehand casting. I'd be shocked to learn if anyone on this thread has a CCS bound who isn't maging most of the time.

 

Your problem in bold and large font. As I've already mentioned, this guide is not intended for slackers. Everything has been tried and tested thoroughly. I don't think complaining about not being able to use a CCS properly is going to help you get better at using one.

 

EDIT: Just so we're on the same page, I assume you're 100+ with hood, melee weapon, and empowered fire staff?

[xpx]

The major problem just seems to be that sly is unaware of effective dungeoneering tactics and is a typical 148 dungeoneer. This guide is not meant for sub-par dungeoneering. It's means for good and superb dungeoneering. Thus, as CCS with fire surge is only best on around 40% of the monsters and emp fire on around 25%, your CCS will have to be the secondary combat style, and with that it's given that you'd be using around 50 spells per floor MAX(unless you have a mage boss). Magic is NOT a good primary combat style and thus should not be treated as such, much the same as hex. It's extremely easy to gather around 600 elemental runes and 500 essence just from monster drops during the first 3-7 minutes of a dungeon, so assuming you can manage to get the runes effectively and only mage monsters that are actually weaker to mage than they are to melee(not zombies and skeletons, as some might think), a CCS will be head and shoulders above emp fire. Another thing about emp fire is that you can craft one losslessly ~5 minutes into a floor, thus it's somewhat of a lost bind slot.