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31-Aug-2011 � The Branches of Darkmeyer


DarkDude

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One company, one issue, not so many targets to hit as the RIAA.

 

The moment they would even attempt such a thing, 4-6 trusted websites would turn into thousands of thousands of individuals spreading the information. It's clearly not viable. If anything, the recent Jiblix issue should have confirmed that fact at how lightning quick the group-thinking mind in RuneScape works.

 

In truth, you might be right. And for all the world knows that it would be a terrible idea with not a lot of return, I don't have enough faith in the current environment at Jagex to not try it. But there's honestly no way to dispute your theory, because it's gone so far from how the game is now. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg in how crafty they're trying to be, and we've got no idea of how far they would go.

 

But I tell you what, if people think TIF is strict, they better pray that Jagex doesn't try to cut off their communities. We're like Rush Limbaugh in comparison to the RSOF. (Eww, I feel dirty just making that comparison.) :lol:

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The guide -in my opinion- was a bit too much holding hands: explaining where to find which cloth ok.. But then actually saying "put item X at this position, walk to here, take Y, put on X again, walk ...." is too much detail, I like to figure those out myself.

 

Similar for the posters, in a guide I'd expect a picture of a poster, and maybe the total number of posters.. Not the exact locations, that makes the puzzle aspect of quests boring.

First they came to fishing

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

 

Then they came to the yews

and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

 

Then they came for the ores

and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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The guide -in my opinion- was a bit too much holding hands: explaining where to find which cloth ok.. But then actually saying "put item X at this position, walk to here, take Y, put on X again, walk ...." is too much detail, I like to figure those out myself.

 

A walkthrough is supposed to do just that--walk you through it.

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The guide -in my opinion- was a bit too much holding hands: explaining where to find which cloth ok.. But then actually saying "put item X at this position, walk to here, take Y, put on X again, walk ...." is too much detail, I like to figure those out myself.

 

A walkthrough is supposed to do just that--walk you through it.

Is it?

 

I expect my teacher to "guide" me through the subjects I need to learn. However I don't expect them to hold my hand and tell me every little step I need to take.

 

I don't understand why runescape would ever release such guides though: they more or less destroy a big part of quests, the finding of the items. (If they wished for items to be found without difficulty they couldve just made them pop up in your interface, or layered in bare sight).

First they came to fishing

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

 

Then they came to the yews

and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

 

Then they came for the ores

and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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The guide -in my opinion- was a bit too much holding hands: explaining where to find which cloth ok.. But then actually saying "put item X at this position, walk to here, take Y, put on X again, walk ...." is too much detail, I like to figure those out myself.

 

A walkthrough is supposed to do just that--walk you through it.

Is it?

 

I expect my teacher to "guide" me through the subjects I need to learn. However I don't expect them to hold my hand and tell me every little step I need to take.

 

I don't understand why runescape would ever release such guides though: they more or less destroy a big part of quests, the finding of the items. (If they wished for items to be found without difficulty they couldve just made them pop up in your interface, or layered in bare sight).

 

A guide does teach you and not hand hold.

But a guide and a walkthrough are different things.

A walkthrough walks you through it step by step.

Same way tip.it quests walkthroughs detail everything

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Is it?

 

Yes. It is. That's what video-game walkthroughs do. There's no reason to get philosophical. They have to be written very precisely so that the goal you're hoping to achieve (getting clueless player from point A to point B) is done without fail. If the audience doesn't make the connection, or doesn't understand whats written because the author assumes they have enough background knowledge/experience to make that call, the author has then failed in their goal. When you're writing for a very broad audience, you basically have to write like the message is for children.

 

As for why they would make quest guides, well, anything to boost foot traffic to their site I guess. They lose tons of traffic a day to fansites because they have crap help information there.

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Why? Except for holding hands too much, I found closing the doors useful. It's only a bit annoying if 8 other people are trying to do the quest at the same time, which is only release day. I saw many a vyre/juvinate staring at me from behind those closed doors and got caught more then once standing in the doorway. If anything, they should mention that logging if a vampyre/juvinate is staring at you while you're inside the crypt, log off and on to get him off you >_>

 

@ Above: yes, walkthroughs are actually supposed to walk you through the quest. Pro-tip: no one is forcing you to use them. Another pro-tip: most fansite walkthroughs offer that much detail. Another pro-tip: if you want to figure out things yourself, don't use a walk-through.

 

Walkthroughs aren't your teacher helping you figure out things for yourself. The actual quest itself is supposed to do that, via things whatsherfacevampyrechick giving you hints on who to talk to, etc. Think of walkthroughs as cheats; copying off the smartest kid in class or stealing the test answers from the teacher's desk to study.

 

As for why RuneScape would release such guides? Why the hell not? Not like a quick google search won't lead you to a good, detailed quest guide anyways. Jagex can make just as good, if not better guides then fansites and generally have them ready faster. If people are going to be reading quest walkthroughs anyways, it's probably better for Jagex to have said people do it on Jagex's own website.

 

Also, part of the reason people like doing quests on release date is because there is no walkthrough anywhere yet.

 

One company, one issue, not so many targets to hit as the RIAA.

 

The moment they would even attempt such a thing, 4-6 trusted websites would turn into thousands of thousands of individuals spreading the information. It's clearly not viable. If anything, the recent Jiblix issue should have confirmed that fact at how lightning quick the group-thinking mind in RuneScape works.

 

In truth, you might be right. And for all the world knows that it would be a terrible idea with not a lot of return, I don't have enough faith in the current environment at Jagex to not try it. But there's honestly no way to dispute your theory, because it's gone so far from how the game is now. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg in how crafty they're trying to be, and we've got no idea of how far they would go.

 

But I tell you what, if people think TIF is strict, they better pray that Jagex doesn't try to cut off their communities. We're like Rush Limbaugh in comparison to the RSOF. (Eww, I feel dirty just making that comparison.) :lol:

 

This.

 

Is it possible that Jagex would seriously consider trying to ban fansite guides and sell their own? Extremely unlikely, but not impossible.

 

Is it possible that the courts would actually allow and aid Jagex in such an endeavor? Even more extremely unlikely. I think I'm more likely to win the lottery. Even though I don't buy lottery tickets.

 

Is it possible that Jagex would succeed? No. It is not possible. Period. Again, I re-iterate: it is virtually impossible to control information on the internet; this is only feasible in societies where the government has direct control over all other sources of information and does not hesitate to enact martial law anywhere and everywhere they deem it necessary.

 

The ability to safely and openly voice your fears about censorship pretty much guarantees those fears are meaningless.

Squab unleashes Megiddo! Completed all quests and hard diaries. 75+ Skiller. (At one point.) 2000+ total. 99 Magic.
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Buying spins make you a bad person...don't do it. It's like buying nukes for North Korea.

Well if it bothers you that the game is more fun now, then you can go cry in a corner. :shame:

your article was the equivalent of a circumcized porcupine

The only thing wrong with it is the lack of a percentage for when you need to stroke it.

 


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One company, one issue, not so many targets to hit as the RIAA.

 

The moment they would even attempt such a thing, 4-6 trusted websites would turn into thousands of thousands of individuals spreading the information. It's clearly not viable. If anything, the recent Jiblix issue should have confirmed that fact at how lightning quick the group-thinking mind in RuneScape works.

I think all could Jagex do in the copyright sense is to ask for people to take down their pictures of the game. Most/all text on the quests/guides etc (on Tip.it) are from people (and not the KB). Jagex can't have copyright on an article/text about their game can they?.

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They technically do have copyright claims on various texts, but I don't think that means they can take them down can they? Or else companies like Coca-cola could issue out Cease and desists every time someone mentioned their product.

Then again, I have very little understanding of copyright laws.

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Copyright can't touch anything other than images.

The text is self-written and under no way infringes jagex copyrights.

Maps could go either way.

 

But yeah legally they can't stop people writing guides. It only can be legally attacked against if its libel, which guides are not but things like tip.it times articles could be accused of, or if people try to charge for it, as that is also technically illegal as you are making money off someone elses copyright, even if indirectly

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Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue

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Copyright can't touch anything other than images.

 

Incorrect. Copyright is the right of an author to protect his or her expression of an idea, writing, (literature, poetry, news, whatever), music, images, photographs. It doesn't protect the idea, for example you can't copyright a game, because the game itself isn't an expression it is an idea. You can copyright any images involved and you can generally copyright/trademark any names used as well.

 

The actual in-game text can be copyrighted, any images. Also, any character names or item names. However there is also what is known as "fair use" doctrine, which limits what the copyright holder can actually stop. I believe that walkthrough/guides would be considered fair use, as the only things that we are using is some screenshots of the game. It may even be that the screenshot is not considered copyrighted material of jagex since they didn't create the screenshot, someone's computer generated the necessary image using software supplied by jagex.

 

It's hard to tell, but they don't really have any legal grounds to stop fansites. Also, the legal grounds is useless on the internet, because we can basically out-copy them and re-broadcast the guides. Effectively Jagex could end up with the Streisand Effect

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They can coyp right names, but it doesn't effect guides.

People can still write about the product using its name etc as long as its not libelous or used to make money.

Nothing in copyright stops you using names in non-profit articles and discussions; if it did you'd never get reviews or news articles about anything remotely copyrighted.

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Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue

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Jagex is having a hard enough time sueing bot producers who clearly violate their terms&conditions. Trying to sue for writing a guide is an instant-lose, if any lawyer takes it then only to make money, he would never for 1 second believe he'll win.

 

Images of the game could be copyrighted I think, but most of the pictures on here would be covered by "fair use".

 

I wouldn't put it past the current Jagex management to try something like that - but not exactly this, they know they're going to lose. Greedy they may be, but not stupid.

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Copyright can't touch anything other than images.

The text is self-written and under no way infringes jagex copyrights.

Maps could go either way.

 

But yeah legally they can't stop people writing guides. It only can be legally attacked against if its libel, which guides are not but things like tip.it times articles could be accused of, or if people try to charge for it, as that is also technically illegal as you are making money off someone elses copyright, even if indirectly

EVERYTHING made by a human is copyrighted, you little messages you text to your girlfriend, those ideas you work down on a small paper during train: everythign is automatically copyrighted towards you. It covers images, text and games equally. Saying "copyright can't touch anything other than images" shows that you make statements without knowing anything about the copyright laws (laws as there are multiple and depend on the nation, however as runescape is a brittish company you have to abide to the brittish copyright law - at least if your country signed a treaty with the UK, which most countries have except for china).

 

Copyright however only prevents COPYING, not paraphrasing or other forms of using the data.

Edited by tripsis
Inflammatory remark removed
First they came to fishing

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

 

Then they came to the yews

and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

 

Then they came for the ores

and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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Share on other sites

Copyright can't touch anything other than images.

The text is self-written and under no way infringes jagex copyrights.

Maps could go either way.

 

But yeah legally they can't stop people writing guides. It only can be legally attacked against if its libel, which guides are not but things like tip.it times articles could be accused of, or if people try to charge for it, as that is also technically illegal as you are making money off someone elses copyright, even if indirectly

EVERYTHING made by a human is copyrighted, you little messages you text to your girlfriend, those ideas you work down on a small paper during train: everythign is automatically copyrighted towards you. It covers images, text and games equally. Saying "copyright can't touch anything other than images" shows that you make statements without knowing anything about the copyright laws (laws as there are multiple and depend on the nation, however as runescape is a brittish company you have to abide to the brittish copyright law - at least if your country signed a treaty with the UK, which most countries have except for china).

 

Copyright however only prevents COPYING, not paraphrasing or other forms of using the data.

 

I was talking SPECIFICALLY about Jagex/Runescape copyright in relation to fansites.

Only the images can really be touched by Jagex's copyright in that case; because only the images are directly copied from runescape.

 

Plus while you technically do have copyright on anything you produce unless it is officially registered it is limited and rarely holds up in court.

Plv6Dz6.jpg

Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue

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Copyright can't touch anything other than images.

The text is self-written and under no way infringes jagex copyrights.

Maps could go either way.

 

But yeah legally they can't stop people writing guides. It only can be legally attacked against if its libel, which guides are not but things like tip.it times articles could be accused of, or if people try to charge for it, as that is also technically illegal as you are making money off someone elses copyright, even if indirectly

EVERYTHING made by a human is copyrighted, you little messages you text to your girlfriend, those ideas you work down on a small paper during train: everythign is automatically copyrighted towards you. It covers images, text and games equally. Saying "copyright can't touch anything other than images" shows that you make statements without knowing anything about the copyright laws (laws as there are multiple and depend on the nation, however as runescape is a brittish company you have to abide to the brittish copyright law - at least if your country signed a treaty with the UK, which most countries have except for china).

 

Copyright however only prevents COPYING, not paraphrasing or other forms of using the data.

 

I was talking SPECIFICALLY about Jagex/Runescape copyright in relation to fansites.

Only the images can really be touched by Jagex's copyright in that case; because only the images are directly copied from runescape.

 

Plus while you technically do have copyright on anything you produce unless it is officially registered it is limited and rarely holds up in court.

Again, that depends on the country of origin: in my country (netherlands) not only is registration impossible: it also has no legal meaning if there was some "registration". - Instead copyright infringments are solved by having a "proof of date". (The one who can provide the oldest date is the owner).

 

But really text, even if you don't "copy-paste" it is protected: you can't overtype phrases if they are a significant part of a story. Besides, there's no reason to go to "court" - most countries (whole EU for example) have standard procedures for copyright infringments.

As for what websites do: well if you write down the story exactly (as opposed to retelling the tale in your own words) you DO violate the rights jagex has as holder. However would anyone cry for it? I doubt that.

 

 

But who am I fooling here, trying to discuss these things on a forum where almost nobody has the correct education to provide advice in this... *sees agen's reply*...

First they came to fishing

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

 

Then they came to the yews

and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

 

Then they came for the ores

and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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<snip>

<snip>

<snip>

<snip>

 

...But who am I fooling here, trying to discuss these things on a forum where almost nobody has the correct education to provide advice in this... *sees agen's reply*...

I try my hardest ;)

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