Future of Runescape Combat

[999134]

We're going to heavily encourage you to train your defense. Okay?

 

:/

 

Edit: TBH the triangle already works in the best gear available

Arma storm in max gear will beat melee maxed gear

Morrigan javlins in max gear will beat mage max gear

And melee will beat range.

[Ginger_Warrior]

As for the rebalancing the triangle, that's brilliant, I can't wait to see it, finally we'll actually see Mages beating Melee, Melee beating Range and Range beating Mage, fantastic!

It sounds good, and it would certainly be a welcome improvement to the current situation where melee > all, but what you described doesn't necessarily make for a healthy PvP metagame. An example I would draw upon is SSBB, where a character might have a 60% advantage over another character (say, Snake (2) versus Ice Climbers (5)) . The 60% indicates that in a normal situation, we would expect the first character to beat the second, however the 40% represents that the second character might be able to use the metagame to their advantage in order to upset the odds and win. The combat triangle's main fault, however poorly this had been implemented, is that it expects a 100% advantage everytime.

 

If they're going to readdress the combat triangle, then they need to consider that occasionally, melee should beat magic. Otherwise, the metagame is too shallow for it to be of any real interest.

[Amonitas]

SSBB is a fighting game with almost 40 character. Of course there will be different matchups.

RS only has about 3 matchups, where Melee is Meta Knight, good player can challenge Melee with Mage and Range, but Melee still beats them :D

[Ginger_Warrior]

SSBB is a fighting game with almost 40 character. Of course there will be different matchups.

RS only has about 3 matchups, where Melee is Meta Knight, good player can challenge Melee with Mage and Range, but Melee still beats them :D

Which is why MK will be officially banned as of April 2012. It was deemed that, metaphorically speaking, mage and ranged couldn't compete with "melee", so they banned him (about bloody time too).

 

The analogy is true here also, but I'd hate PvP to basically become:

 

1) See a warrior

2) Put on mage gear

3) WIN

 

It'd be horrible. At least give something to counter it slightly so an upset might be caused if the player is clever enough to use it.

[Sy_Accursed]

This certainly sounds awesome as an overhaul

 

Increasing lp across the board sounds nice.

The hot bar is obviously smexy

Shifting some spells into abilities

Putting abilities into skills (specifically defence, but guessing range and attack would get some too)

Rebalancing monsters to have noticeable weakness and strength about time, it'll mix up weapon usage nicely.

Making it so attack bonuses come from weapons only makes sense, why should my shoes make my sword better?

Making armours have negative bonuses for the wrong class and better defence in-line with triangle (eg mage armour tht can resist melee via forecefeilds or w/e)

Giving the original mage elements abilities

 

But best of all in my opinion: AFK = lower DPS

 

Sounds like overall the abilities and dps stuff is gonna make combat a whole lot more interesting and organic

[Amonitas]

SSBB is a fighting game with almost 40 character. Of course there will be different matchups.

RS only has about 3 matchups, where Melee is Meta Knight, good player can challenge Melee with Mage and Range, but Melee still beats them :D

Which is why MK will be officially banned as of April 2012. It was deemed that, metaphorically speaking, mage and ranged couldn't compete with "melee", so they banned him (about bloody time too).

 

The analogy is true here also, but I'd hate PvP to basically become:

 

1) See a warrior

2) Put on mage gear

3) WIN

 

It'd be horrible. At least give something to counter it slightly so an upset might be caused if the player is clever enough to use it.

 

He will be banned after APEX yeah, but Finland banned him on September already, because we are awesome.

 

But yeah, I would hate if it became that too.

[Piu]

I might've missed some parts, but is there a rough release date for this overhaul?

[Quyneax]

"You will be able to click on a target then AFK, but it will come at the cost of DPS."

 

I wonder how they imagine this, because currently killing an average (cannonable) slayer monster is so quick that you can do basically nothing before it dies other than hit it twice. For quite a few combat situations it isn't so much your primary weapon that takes managing but your familiar, its and your position, your cannon, your gear switches/autocast/prayers, your potions etc. So I don't see if and how this would have to change combat very much.

 

"We're just going to say something like, it's magic armor, it has magic runes on it, it's got forcefields or whatever, they're going to make you really good at defending against melee."

 

Imo, this is very stupid. If you could use forcefields like that everybody would be wearing them for each kind of armour. You could make up a story about how magic wards interfere with physical wards, but why one piece of steel would be blocked by a ward but another wouldn't just doesn't make any sense (then again neither do protect from melee/missiles).

 

"We don't want to prevent you from safespotting, but it's not really great gameplay."

 

I disagree with this. Imo it makes sense (for a ranger) to hide at least (stand on top of a hill or sit in a tree or w/e), and attack from a distance (not close-up tanking like you'd do in slayer. Sagaie are awesome because of this). Mages are pretty much like rangers in RS, so for them it'd make sense to hide as well. Position is one of the few tactical choices you have to make in RS and I like when it's used (for example luring tds or trapping unstable behind enduring). What would be great is an easier way to move, because right now so many things are done with the mouse and so little with the keyboard that it's annoying to also have to move that square.

 

"What we do see in pvp, is that people do too much damage.

You whip out your dragon claws or your armadyl godsword, you bust out your special, bam bam you're dead.

We can't have things like that."

 

I disagree, personally I think godswords hits far too low for the story behind them, and I see it as realistic and desirable that a fight should be short and brutal (lots of damage on both sides) not a lot of zerowhacking (or 10%healthwhacking if you like) and healing. The idea of a person taking a yak with two camelbacks, one with prayer and one with health, is stupid imo.

 

"When you click a monster now, it will tell you what a monster is strong against, and when it is weak against."

 

Boring, there's monster examine and experimentation for that. However:

 

"We want to encourage you to do it. To use the stronger attack style."

 

This I like.

 

Overall, not sure I'll enjoy the updates, but let them come.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I'm a bit surprised that they're reluctant to change the gameplay for F2P. Yes, updates cost money, but investing money into a better beginning base is always a good move...

[FooK-A-Ji]

I'm a bit surprised that they're reluctant to change the gameplay for F2P. Yes, updates cost money, but investing money into a better beginning base is always a good move...

 

I guess they are going to rely on their SUPER MEGA AWESOME POWER MARKETING SKILLZ.

 

I know I was jacked up when I read BOT NUKE DAAAAAY..

 

Jagex has their way with words, god dang.

[Platinum_Myr]

Honestly, I fail to see how transferring items which are P2P but have absolutely zero use in the game to F2P would make them lose money..

 

If i am F2P, I am not going to become P2P JUST to use snare or the bonecrusher. These never get used in the P2P game (well, not never... but rarely). and they are ALREADY DEVELOPED. Which means they aren't losing development resources. (Just change a p2p flag to be "f2p")

[Robert_R]

Honestly, I fail to see how transferring items which are P2P but have absolutely zero use in the game to F2P would make them lose money..

 

If i am F2P, I am not going to become P2P JUST to use snare or the bonecrusher. These never get used in the P2P game (well, not never... but rarely). and they are ALREADY DEVELOPED. Which means they aren't losing development resources. (Just change a p2p flag to be "f2p")

I use bone crusher.

[Platinum_Myr]

I use bone crusher.

 

I use the bonecrusher, and I know people that use it. But it is not as widely used as methods such as the ectofunctus or the house alter (when aiming specifically to train prayer).

 

It would have more of an impact on F2P where there is no alternative to training prayer other than burying bones directly. Sorry for the confusion :)

[NukeMarine]

Want to improve the combat triangle? Put cooldown on armor and weapon switching when in combat or the wilderness. Removal is instant, but something like 6 seconds for weapons and helm, 12 seconds for legs and chest to equip it. I know it's a fantasy game, but it should take longer to put on combat armor.

[Platinum_Myr]

Want to improve the combat triangle? Put cooldown on armor and weapon switching when in combat or the wilderness. Removal is instant, but something like 6 seconds for weapons and helm, 12 seconds for legs and chest to equip it. I know it's a fantasy game, but it should take longer to put on combat armor.

 

That is an interesting concept. It would pretty much eliminate hybrid methods.

[essiw]

Could this be the update they are planning to do instead of a new skill? (they said something like that right?)

[Platinum_Myr]

Well, if this much changed about combat it would feel like a new skill (excepting the fact that they can't change how melee is two skills and range/mage are one skill each) so there would be no leveling up a new skill.

[Robert_R]

Well, if this much changed about combat it would feel like a new game (excepting the fact that they can't change how melee is two skills and range/mage are one skill each) so there would be no leveling up a new skill.

Fixed it.

[wormy]

If all that combat stuff came out at the same time I would certainly call it a new 'era'. RS has seen it's fair share of drastic game changing updates, item banks, wilderness, p2p... etc. but only the total revamp of the entire game not one specific aspect was really enough to call it RS2.

 

I bet it will be in small increments so it will not feel quite as groundbreaking, but at the end of the day it still will be.

[Erewhon2]

I like the way they intend that armour will have defensive based stats, not offensive. Hopefully this will help balance out different melee styles, although not as much as I would have liked. Someone in the session did sort of query the possibility of balancing skills, but it appears it would be too complicated. I would like to see a thief being able to attack someone in heavy armour with an equal chance, using agility and thieving skills. But hey....what they do have planned is going to be a vast improvement. :P

[Platinum_Myr]

I like the way they intend that armour will have defensive based stats, not offensive. Hopefully this will help balance out different melee styles, although not as much as I would have liked. Someone in the session did sort of query the possibility of balancing skills, but it appears it would be too complicated. I would like to see a thief being able to attack someone in heavy armour with an equal chance, using agility and thieving skills. But hey....what they do have planned is going to be a vast improvement. :P

 

I think it would be awesome to have combat abilities unlocked via agility or thieving levels. They are mentioning something like a hotbar. Basically extra special attacks that you need agility to unlock (in combination with att/str) would be awesome! More variety.

[Erewhon2]

I like the way they intend that armour will have defensive based stats, not offensive. Hopefully this will help balance out different melee styles, although not as much as I would have liked. Someone in the session did sort of query the possibility of balancing skills, but it appears it would be too complicated. I would like to see a thief being able to attack someone in heavy armour with an equal chance, using agility and thieving skills. But hey....what they do have planned is going to be a vast improvement. :P

 

I think it would be awesome to have combat abilities unlocked via agility or thieving levels. They are mentioning something like a hotbar. Basically extra special attacks that you need agility to unlock (in combination with att/str) would be awesome! More variety.

 

I would definitely have a much greater interest in combat if it had variety that exploited other skills, maybe this is where I should confess to having 99 thieving and agility? :P I think all we can do is wait and see what the final update looks like when it gets here, no doubt they will do tweaks and changes during the development. I can't wait to see the armour graphics update too when its gets 'in game'.

[Guest jrhairychest]

I like the way they intend that armour will have defensive based stats, not offensive. Hopefully this will help balance out different melee styles, although not as much as I would have liked. Someone in the session did sort of query the possibility of balancing skills, but it appears it would be too complicated. I would like to see a thief being able to attack someone in heavy armour with an equal chance, using agility and thieving skills. But hey....what they do have planned is going to be a vast improvement. :P

 

I think it would be awesome to have combat abilities unlocked via agility or thieving levels. They are mentioning something like a hotbar. Basically extra special attacks that you need agility to unlock (in combination with att/str) would be awesome! More variety.

 

I would definitely have a much greater interest in combat if it had variety that exploited other skills, maybe this is where I should confess to having 99 thieving and agility? :P I think all we can do is wait and see what the final update looks like when it gets here, no doubt they will do tweaks and changes during the development. I can't wait to see the armour graphics update too when its gets 'in game'.

 

I remember you suggesting this a while ago. Always supported this type of thing. Agility should be able to aid your defence anyway for dodging purposes. I like the idea of someone in lighter armour with higher agility being able to give someone in heavier armour a run for their money.

[Jonanananas]

Overall it sounds good. Some rebalancing really is due.

 

However, first of all I'm doubtful of how successful they are here. Balancing different classes against each other in all kinds of situations is really difficult.

 

Also, I'm a bit worried about those hotkeys and abilities...generally nice concept, but I hope they don't go overboard with it like in a lot of other RPGs and stuff...

[Saradomin_Mage]

I like the way they intend that armour will have defensive based stats, not offensive. Hopefully this will help balance out different melee styles, although not as much as I would have liked. Someone in the session did sort of query the possibility of balancing skills, but it appears it would be too complicated. I would like to see a thief being able to attack someone in heavy armour with an equal chance, using agility and thieving skills. But hey....what they do have planned is going to be a vast improvement. :P

 

I think it would be awesome to have combat abilities unlocked via agility or thieving levels. They are mentioning something like a hotbar. Basically extra special attacks that you need agility to unlock (in combination with att/str) would be awesome! More variety.

 

I would definitely have a much greater interest in combat if it had variety that exploited other skills, maybe this is where I should confess to having 99 thieving and agility? :P I think all we can do is wait and see what the final update looks like when it gets here, no doubt they will do tweaks and changes during the development. I can't wait to see the armour graphics update too when its gets 'in game'.

 

I remember you suggesting this a while ago. Always supported this type of thing. Agility should be able to aid your defence anyway for dodging purposes. I like the idea of someone in lighter armour with higher agility being able to give someone in heavier armour a run for their money.

Only problem is that they'll have to reflect those skills in the combat formula, which will also rile up a whole bunch of people, haha. (Who really wants to train to 99 agility to max combat? :P)