Orpheus Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2011/12/2011121544018945737.html The US House of Representatives has voted in favour of controversial proposed legislation that would deny terror suspects, including US citizens, the right to trial and permit authorities to detain them indefinitely. The proposed changes were included in a $662bn defence bill passed on Wednesday by the Republican-controlled House after White House officials withdrew a threat to block the bill over concerns it would undermine the US president's authority over counterterrorism activities. In a statement, Jay Carney, a White House spokesman said "several important changes" had been made, which meant that presidential advisors would not recommend Barack Obama veto the bill. The bill, which also endorsed tougher sanctions against Iran's central bank and freezing $700 million in aid to Pakistan, must still pass through the Senate, which is expected to vote on Thursday. If approved, the bill would require the US military to take custody of terror suspects accused of involvement in plotting or committing attacks against the United States. But in changes introduced under pressure from the White House, the bill was amended to say that the military cannot interfere with FBI and other civilian investigations and interrogations. The revisions also allow the president to sign a waiver moving a terror suspect from military to civilian prison. Carney said the new bill "does not challenge the president's ability to collect intelligence, incapacitate dangerous terrorists and protect the American people." 'Lack of clarity' But some officials had some objections to the clause. FBI Director Robert Mueller criticised the provision for its lack of clarity on how the changes would be implemented at the time of arrest. The White House said that some of those concerns remained. "While we remain concerned about the uncertainty that this law will create for our counter-terrorism professionals, the most recent changes give the president additional discretion in determining how the law will be implemented," added Carney. But the bill has also attracted criticism from civil rights campaigners. Christopher Anders, senior legislative counsel at the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), said the bill was a "big deal". "It would authorise the president to order the military to capture civilians and put them in indefinite detention without charge or trial, with no limitation based on either geography or citizenship," he told Al Jazeera. "The military would have the authority to imprison persons far from any battlefield, including American citizens and including people picked up in the US." Jesus [bleep]ing christ. There goes the Constitution. Add on that SOPA/PIPA bullshit, and I don't think I've ever wanted the entire government and all it's lobbyists murdered before. Not like this. I was going to eat hot dogs for dinner tonight. I think I will settle for cereal. OPEN WIDE HERE COMES THE HELICOPTER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Hm, a more authoritative government. What a surprise. "The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sohkmj1 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 We already have something like that implemented, so welcome to the club, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saradomin_Mage Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 We already have something like that implemented, so welcome to the club, I suppose.I don't see the problem here ... In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxpprod Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Delivering freedom to the middle east (lol) and taking away at home. Nice. Edit: 1000 props for AJE btw. Excellent, excellent stuff. [bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sohkmj1 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 We already have something like that implemented, so welcome to the club, I suppose.I don't see the problem here ...I don't see the problem either. Was just pointing it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandZephyr Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Is this stuff even constitutional?!? I find this sort of legislation to be self-fulfilling. After succeeding to pass into law, the bill will protect itself from removal by considering all opposition to it as "terrorism". So, through its own sanctions it will be able to use the U.S. Military to protect itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpgGamer Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's 4 am. Why am I awake? goverment is being extra dumb? go figure. I'm moving to Britain...screw this place Quote Quote Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic. Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos. PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude Steam: NippleBeardTM Origin: Brand_New_iPwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 And thus we find one of the largest problems of basing structural government on a binding document like the U.S. Constitution: interpretation. "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarg1010 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I really want to move to Switzerland :/ or denmark. Scotland maybe. I'm a supporter of the u.s. military, but this is just ridiculous. Unfinished netherrack symbol of Khorne. Never forget. ~creeper face w/single tear~ DO YOU HEAR THE VOICES TOO?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's 4 am. Why am I awake? goverment is being extra dumb? go figure. I'm moving to Britain...screw this placeEven here the police can detain a terror suspect for 21 days before charging them with an offence, when normally they have 24 hours. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's 4 am. Why am I awake? goverment is being extra dumb? go figure. I'm moving to Britain...screw this placeEven here the police can detain a terror suspect for 21 days before charging them with an offence, when normally they have 24 hours. It used to be 28 days back in 2006, then (I think) it was allowed to lapse to 14 days this year. Apparently there has never been a need to detain anybody past 14 days since 2007, anyway.* In any case, this completely pales in comparison to indefinite detainment. It's just shocking to say the least. * http://www.thisislon...ion-to-lapse.do ~ W ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drazhor Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's partially glad why I live in Ireland, means we can hardly get screwed (unless they increase drink prices...) Visit my blog! Click the madness for more madness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaida23 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 So basically, the US military will be allowed to arrest any US citizen, regardless of geographical location, for any reason they decide to call "terrorism"? I always thought martial law was only declared in a state of emergency or instances of severe civil unrest, and only temporarily. It looks like if this bill passes then there will no longer be a need for local/state police and the FBI can just box up Hoover's old dresses and go home. "Don't worry boys, the Army's here to take the criminals away!" I think this part worries me the most:"If approved, the bill would require the US military to take custody of terror suspects accused of involvement in plotting or committing attacks against the United States." Accused. Last I checked, you had to actually be charged with a crime to be arrested, not merely accused. Check out my blog to read the Adventures of a Big Damn (F2P) Hero. THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P. So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jrhairychest Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's 4 am. Why am I awake? goverment is being extra dumb? go figure. I'm moving to Britain...screw this placeEven here the police can detain a terror suspect for 21 days before charging them with an offence, when normally they have 24 hours. I wish Britain would implement something like this. In Britain the lawyers crawl all over this preaching the human rights act looking for compensation. We also have very weak politically correct politicians who are just a waste of space. At least America protects its own interests. Give me that any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assume Nothing Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 So basically, the US military will be allowed to arrest any US citizen, regardless of geographical location, for any reason they decide to call "terrorism"? I always thought martial law was only declared in a state of emergency or instances of severe civil unrest, and only temporarily. It looks like if this bill passes then there will no longer be a need for local/state police and the FBI can just box up Hoover's old dresses and go home. "Don't worry boys, the Army's here to take the criminals away!" I think this part worries me the most:"If approved, the bill would require the US military to take custody of terror suspects accused of involvement in plotting or committing attacks against the United States." Accused. Last I checked, you had to actually be charged with a crime to be arrested, not merely accused. A witch bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbrideau Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Wow, the U.S. is losing yet another right. Then there's the internet stuff going on today too I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riku3220 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'm neutral on this bill until they actually start yanking people off of the street because that's the guy who inconvenienced him 6 years ago. Why is it that every time one of these laws comes up people always jump to a 1984 or V for Vendetta dystopia situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Lame. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin0001 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's partially glad why I live in Ireland, means we can hardly get screwed (unless they increase drink prices...)You are joking right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Observer Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Something similiar was implemented in Canada not too long ago except for police. These powers weren't even used in the 5 year timeframe (bills that infringe human rights expire every 5 years and need to be renewed then to be kept in force). It was amended after then. See this. So it may not be as bad as it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's 4 am. Why am I awake? goverment is being extra dumb? go figure. I'm moving to Britain...screw this placeEven here the police can detain a terror suspect for 21 days before charging them with an offence, when normally they have 24 hours. I wish Britain would implement something like this. In Britain the lawyers crawl all over this preaching the human rights act looking for compensation. We also have very weak politically correct politicians who are just a waste of space. At least America protects its own interests. Give me that any day. Uh... what? Ginger_Warrior was referring to Britain when he said 'here'. As I said, we haven't had to detain for longer than 14 days since 2007, and the threat of terrorism is far smaller now than it was back then. There's no rational reason to detain for longer than 14 days now, let alone indefinitely. America's own interests includes not being hypocritical when it tries to criticise the human rights situation of another, because otherwise nobody will take them seriously. It's been bad enough with Guantanimo Bay and the repression of the Occupy protests, this is just making it even worse. ~ W ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crocefisso Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Countries in decline cannot afford to be as libertarian as they were when at their peak. "Imagine yourself surrounded by the most horrible cripples and maniacs it is possible to conceive, and you may understand a little of my feelings with these grotesque caricatures of humanity about me." - H.G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sees_all1 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I expect the ACLU to challenge this law at the Supreme Court.Anyhow, I blame the Republicans in Congress for passing such a steaming pile, and Obama for demanding it. Hopefully Harry Reid throws a hissy-fit and buries it in committee. Or maybe Rand Paul will step up and filibuster it. 99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me! ♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thoughtHave some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪♪♪ And I'm not doneAnd I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Why is it that every time one of these laws comes up people always jump to a 1984 or V for Vendetta dystopia situation?The internet has very small reference pools and a love of Guy Fawkes masks? :razz: "Can" doesn't mean "Will". I'm waiting to see what they do with it, not what an army of Stalin clones could do with it. I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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