High profile players banned

[Estoc]

How does botting cooking ruin the game for you?

 

He never said anything about "ruining" the game, just that it affected the game and that the botting players didn't seem to care. As someone who is/was going for 200m xp in multiple skills you must realize that even a small thing like a single player botting will effect the entire game, whether it's "just botting cook" or full on gold farming. Apart from the direct act of removing resources and adding finished products, your attitude and blatant use of bots will also encourage many players to bot themselves which is far worse than just one player gaining levels illegitimately.

 

None of us were goldfarming and taking up resources or anything that has any actual impact on the game.

 

Each player that bots 200m cooking takes over 800,000 raw rocktail out of the game.

[Fallstar]

 

Each player that bots 200m cooking takes over 800,000 raw rocktail out of the game.

 

Or a million grapes, of which there are far fewer in the game than rocktails, so the slightly smarter bots who make wines have an even bigger impact.

[Boredom RS]

If people would stop botting rocktails it would take out more than the players botting cooking to 200m lol

[Estoc]

Except the one person botting 200m cooking has it within his or her power to train legitimately.

 

Instead, I have players telling me botting is ok because the game is boring.

Because they have no time to play anymore.

Because Jagex released update that they don't like.

Because everyone else is botting.

Because it's easy to get away with.

Because it doesn't affect anyone.

Because the game won't last much longer.

 

If you don't like the game, it's time to stop playing.

[Ghosttalon]

I'm going to ignore the outburst that makes it look like my post was bordering on singling out a particular age-group as causing all Runescape's current problems. That would be an oversimplified mischaracterization of my position. But no, I am not of the "new generation", however one may want to define it. I don't know why you would even say I was, unless you looked at my "crappy" Runescape stats, my "mediocre" achievements, my far-from-completed quest list, or something. Those indicate nothing. The most they indicate is that I do other things with my time than play Runescape. But it is not my job to justify to you, Vezon, why I think I'm entitled to my opinions on the current group of people who play MMORPGs, as a gamer that has experienced interactive multiplayer gaming long before Runescape was a glimmer in Andrew Gower's eye.

 

So, leaving that aside, to the botter that bothered to respond: Everything you choose to cheat on in a multiplayer game affects something, and someone, somehow. Even cooking rocktails, you're not playing in a vaccuum. And I think it is your inability to realize or understand this that is most telling. You have no idea of the consequences of your actions, so how on earth can you possibly show remorse for it?

 

I am now in a game where I feel compelled to go out of my way to make sure I am not aiding and abetting cheaters. I currently would like to see 99 Smithing, for the first time ever, to have a skill that once, long, long ago now, in this game was a pretty cool skill. Once upon a time I would have gladly bought ores, knowing that was helping support a player who had put in the effort to work on his/her bank. I can't do that anymore. I can't buy ores from anyone else. I have to get everything myself because there is no other way to guarantee that the ores I am getting weren't part of a botting cadre employed by a player like you, Snuggzz. You can say you weren't employing bots in such fashion; maybe you personally weren't. But your word is meaningless now. And others like you certainly do this, whether you do or not.

 

Others have already given counterexamples to how your example of rocktails doesn't "affect anyone else" as you thought. Beyond the fact of what impact it does or does not have on the game's economy, there is an impact to you, personally, and to other players in this game. Your attempt to pass off your "achievement" has made you and many others who may have legitimately gotten there suspect. Your word is no good. You taint the game. But that's ok, right? Because you can just brush it all off with, "So what, just an online game, no one knows me; I'm anonymous behind my computer screen, who cares?" "Who gives a crap about anyone else? This game world is all about me, me, me." There are too many of you, you, you that act the same way in real life to just pass over this and say it doesn't matter.

 

I'm sure you can now sit back, and wonder who the hell I am to judge you so. Maybe rightfully so. It's just the opinion of another disgruntled, disillusioned, disheartened and disgusted Runescape player in 2013. Made possible by people like you. Your actions alone may have been innocuous enough (you thought), but collectively you and your friends have made a travesty of what was once a really nice game.

[Platinum_Myr]

Even if there was no impact directly in game the very fact that another player got an achievement through botting impacts the game because it makes the achievement factor go away. Sure a player can say "I achieved it myself" and a player can say that my having cheated doesn't impact other players. Sure a single individual has minimal impact but creating an environment of dishonesty and false trust moves the game more and more away from what it could be.

[Donnie]

Look you miss the point Ghosttalon given that Jagex is technically unable to ever, I repeat ever fix the problem and people are not going to jump through hoops if they dont have to. You aren't obligated to do anything. If you want to bot there is nothing legally or ethically wrong with it, you just accept you have a higher chance of getting banned then non botters. Anyways ghost there were bots in 02, I dont know what world you've been living in there has always been bots, and its always been 10%+ of the community.

 

If it does affect you its not the fault of the players it is the fault of game design decisions made by Jagex. Again its poor game design decisions that are the cause of your gameplay experience being negatively affected by other players. Its like minecraft griefing, you cant really blame players for griefing on servers when you didn't make it technically impossible not to, sure you can ban them but it will never actually solve problems. That is more or less the state runescape is in with bots.

[Estoc]

Look you miss the point Ghosttalon given that Jagex is technically unable to ever, I repeat ever fix the problem and people are not going to jump through hoops if they dont have to. You aren't obligated to do anything. If you want to bot there is nothing legally or ethically wrong with it, you just accept you have a higher chance of getting banned then non botters. Anyways ghost there were bots in 02, I dont know what world you've been living in there has always been bots, and its always been 10%+ of the community.

 

I'm fairly certain that when you use macros you are breaking the contract you agreed to when you signed up, so it is at least ethically wrong and possibly legally. If you think that playing Runescape is "jumping through hoops" then go play a game that is actually fun.

 

If it does affect you its not the fault of the players it is the fault of game design decisions made by Jagex. Again its poor game design decisions that are the cause of your gameplay experience being negatively affected by other players. Its like minecraft griefing, you cant really blame players for griefing on servers when you didn't make it technically impossible not to, sure you can ban them but it will never actually solve problems. That is more or less the state runescape is in with bots.

 

Alright, let's try a real life example of this. A man walks into a gas station, shoots everyone and cleans out the cash register. Now according to you, this is the gas station owner's fault for not making it technically impossible for the attacker to murder everyone inside.

 

For all of the usual people who will tell me "wow way to go off the deep end, you're comparing griefing in a game to shooting people?" you can use your imagination and scale everything down. One man is directly gaining a benefit at the expense of others, but it's not his fault because it's possible. I can't understand how anyone over the age of 10 can actually believe this to be true.

[chenw]

Not to mention that in order to make those things technically impossible, it would be 'technically impossible' to play the game.

 

If a game can be played by humans, it can be played by bots. I have yet to find a single exception to this.

[RSBDavid]

Its like minecraft griefing, you cant really blame players for griefing on servers when you didn't make it technically impossible not to.

 

You can't compare a game with over 60,000-80,000 active players at a time over cloned servers with a dedicated and paid staff, to a game with privately run servers with only a hundred or so max users per server, staffed by a few college students or so who maintain it in their free time. It is like comparing The United States to privately owned farms in South America or somewhere.

 

With Minecraft, most people only use one account, maybe two at most. Each server is also ran independently from the rest with the exception of plugins which handle community banned players and share that data to reduce griefers. What blocks I destroy or objects I build on Server A will not be the same on Server B. Each server also has different staff and rules. If I were to grief, hack, or be abusive on Server A, resulting in being banned, I could still play on Server B.

 

While I do not agree with botting, I do understand why some people may choose to do so. Someone posted earlier about an argument of people botting 200,000,000 cooking experience and taking rocktails out of the game. Yet, there are also hundreds of thousands of rocktails being introduced into the economy by bots as well.

 

Either way, the issue needs to be handled from a design perspective.. Jagex needs to look at why people bot (without gold farming involved) and determine a solution. They need to let the players know what they are doing and keep us in the loop.

 

-Maybe thousands of players going for the completionist cape do not want to allocate the time to play 5,000 games of CW. Maybe Jagex should lower the amount or allow the requirement to include all minigames such as pest control, conquest, soul wars, barrows, trouble brewing, etc.

 

-Maybe thousands of players want to gain those 99's in a reasonable amount of time without spending 12 hours a day grinding the same thing. Perhaps Jagex could introduce rested experience where after logging out in a bank or within a towns borders, players can gain bonus experience in the form of a ring or scrimshaw and bet set to a desired skill. Of course the experience would need to be limited, but it would appeal to those types of people.

 

Jagex needs to be more open. When more players start realizing that the bot detection systems were a complete bust, Jagex is going to have an even larger problem. It seems that Jagex forgot that the RuneScape community is what makes the game. No update can change that. Without players, there is no RuneScape. When half of the current player count is bots, something is seriously wrong with the design of the game.

 

If you look at a popular MMO made by Blizzard, like RuneScape, many people enjoy the end-game content and working for the gear you can get. It takes less time to get to level 85/90 on five characters in that game than it does it get one or two average-paced 99's like Fletching or Cooking.

If you look at fishing and figure in a 55k experience per hour average form 1 to 99, doing fly-fishing, that is 237 hours of fishing. In that same period of time, just doing random instances, an average player can get two characters to the max level and decent gear. A more dedicated person can get three or four, based on class (Damage taker and life restoring classes tend to get more instanced dungeons.

 

The other MMO also has a much more generous refer-a-friend system. If I invite someone to come to RuneScape now, I would have to wait several months for him or her to get high enough stats do some some partnered-based content, if he or she even decides to play for that long, even with me helping. In the other game, that same friend can have a character boosted to within a few days time of being max level with or without me playing with him or her.

 

While this game is not the unmentioned MMO and has a totally different system, I believe the grind is part of the reason people bot as well as part of the cause of the downfall of the game. By the time someone gets maxed gear and stats in RS, there is really not much more to do since there is not any heavily group-based activities other than DG.

[Donnie]

montychuck, theres people who wont do that and wont quit. Instead of arguing why they ought to follow the rules accept that fact. Anyways to your other point I didn't design real life MMO so dont complain about it, its irrelevant. However Jagex intentionally designed runescape the way they did. Your poor gameplay experience as a result of cheaters is a result of those decisions not the fact that people are cheating. If I made it so that you couldn't gain xp in runescape if anyone was near you and in crowded areas you had to deal with bots being near you, thats not bad on the bots thats bad design by Jagex. Not that I condone bots in this situation but Jagex is ultimately responsible for your negative gameplay experience here.

 

GreenXen yes you can compare the two. See griefing is a common problem in any multiplayer sandbox. Thats common to the genre this exists in everything from ATITD to Minecraft. Botting is the problem of the grind genre in every game from WoW to Runescape. Its a core problem that is technically impossible to fix (for the most part) in both genres. There is solutions out there as you've mentioned but Jagex is choosing to ignore them and continue showing off the illusion of solving the problem through publicity stunts like this.

[Estoc]

Anyways to your other point I didn't design real life MMO so dont complain about it, its irrelevant.

 

It's very relevant, it's effectively an exaggerated example of what griefers and cheaters do in games. If you can't justify it in real life don't try to justify it in a game.

 

Your poor gameplay experience as a result of cheaters is a result of those decisions not the fact that people are cheating.

 

You agreed to a contract when you signed up to play Runescape. Now, you can bot all you want, but when you click that button to run your macro, that's your hand, not Jagex's. There's a difference between Jagex giving you reasons to bot and Jagex forcing you to bot.

[superman 17]

Your poor gameplay experience as a result of cheaters is a result of those decisions not the fact that people are cheating.

 

You agreed to a contract when you signed up to play Runescape. Now, you can bot all you want, but when you click that button to run your macro, that's your hand, not Jagex's. There's a difference between Jagex giving you reasons to bot and Jagex forcing you to bot.

 

A person giving you reasons to hurt/kill them does not mean that it becomes ok to hurt/kill them....

[Estoc]

Your poor gameplay experience as a result of cheaters is a result of those decisions not the fact that people are cheating.

 

You agreed to a contract when you signed up to play Runescape. Now, you can bot all you want, but when you click that button to run your macro, that's your hand, not Jagex's. There's a difference between Jagex giving you reasons to bot and Jagex forcing you to bot.

 

A person giving you reasons to hurt/kill them does not mean that it becomes ok to hurt/kill them....

 

Of course it doesn't, where did that come from?

[muggiwhplar]

Anyways to your other point I didn't design real life MMO so dont complain about it, its irrelevant.

 

It's very relevant, it's effectively an exaggerated example of what griefers and cheaters do in games. If you can't justify it in real life don't try to justify it in a game.

 

You're comparing apples to oranges here. RL and RS may be similar in some instances, but regardless of how similar they may seem, they are not equal and therefore it is irrelevant to form arguments based on such comparisons.

[Estoc]

Anyways to your other point I didn't design real life MMO so dont complain about it, its irrelevant.

 

It's very relevant, it's effectively an exaggerated example of what griefers and cheaters do in games. If you can't justify it in real life don't try to justify it in a game.

 

You're comparing apples to oranges here. RL and RS may be similar in some instances, but regardless of how similar they may seem, they are not equal and therefore it is irrelevant to form arguments based on such comparisons.

 

I'm comparing real life apples to virtual apples. Someone who will knock over your sand castle in real life vs someone who will destroy your castle in minecraft. Reality to a simulation. How is that not a completely legitimate argument?

[Yoko Kurama]

Though I agree with Muggi, you need not even go that far. Just as it is in real life, if you sign contracts with people that are against their interests they will try to find ways out of them. Furthermore, the power relationship is not even anywhere resembling fairness or equality, abstract concepts though they may be. After a certain amount of time has passed, and you have spent a couple of years in the game, investing your effort, time and emotions into it, the whole "just leave if you don't like X" strategy is de facto, to put it simply, not a viable option, no matter how much you may contest this. People have spent way too much time in the game and invested far too much to leave after a certain point, just because we don't like "X"(insert recent update here). So, long-term players tolerate more and Jagex has the upper hand in this situation, because with their long-term player base, they can push their buttons somewhat more because they know that they have got them hook, line and sinker, to use a phrase. Therefore the onus is on Jagex to make sure that they treat the players with some measure of decency and respect if they want their "contracts" to be taken seriously.

 

The long-term players are somewhat cornered, and when Jagex introduces idiotic incentives that are clearly unacceptable to long-term players, well, they can't just "get up and leave", so they find ways around them. It's simply rational pursuit of interests. Don't force people into a corner and they won't try to break previously made agreements with you. Even a 5-year old child with minimal familiarity with Runescape could have told you that 5,000 Castle Wars game is an atrocious requirement on a thousand different levels(if it was really that fun and rational, people wouldn't have to be incentivized to do it, they would already have played 5,000 games), and thus if you incentivize high-level players into doing it by making it a requirement for the most prestigious cape in the game, a lot of them -- unsurprisingly -- will take shortcuts.

 

TLDR version: Don't be an abominable prick to people and they won't try to break previous agreements with you.

[Estoc]

You can not get it, get the cape legitimately or cheat. All 3 options in this situation are bad ones, however a hard choice doesn't mean that you can just shrug off the responsibility that comes with it.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Even a 5-year old child with minimal familiarity with Runescape could have told you that 5,000 Castle Wars game is an atrocious requirement on a thousand different levels(if it was really that fun and rational, people wouldn't have to be incentivized to do it, they would already have played 5,000 games), and thus if you incentivize high-level players into doing it by making it a requirement for the most prestigious cape in the game, a lot of them -- unsurprisingly -- will take shortcuts.

 

If a requirement in game is completely absurd and was primarily introduced to reward retroactive gameplay (the trimmed cape was initially designed with Castle Wars in mind, just as the 5k cape was introduced based on the number of players with 5k tickets and not as a "goal" of sorts), why do players still feel the need to go for it?

[Yoko Kurama]

You can not get it, get the cape legitimately or cheat. All 3 options in this situation are bad ones, however a hard choice doesn't mean that you can just shrug off the responsibility that comes with it.

 

I take issue with the word "responsibility" in this context. This is not some situation with some notable moral consequence, thus that word is somewhat inappropriate. It's a game, that's all, to the extent that you aren't directly harming other people or negatively impacting them(say for instance stealing their items, or passing negative externalities onto them), it really isn't a moral issue, and you don't really have responsibilities. If Jagex designs a rational and sensible game, the number of cheaters will be infinitesimally small(it won't be zero, because some amount of people will always cheat) and the other players will play as they are expected to do so by Jagex; for cases such as these.(I emphasize that because my stance on this should not be generalized into other cases) If they don't structure it rationally, players will try to find shortcuts including cheating. I should clarify once again, that I don't condone botting and I would never encourage anyone to do it; I am instead suggesting that the game be maintained and designed in such a way as to reduce the number of cheaters to as low as possible.

 

@ Sara Mage:

If a requirement in game is completely absurd and was primarily introduced to reward retroactive gameplay (the trimmed cape was initially designed with Castle Wars in mind, just as the 5k cape was introduced based on the number of players with 5k tickets and not as a "goal" of sorts), why do players still feel the need to go for it?

 

There are a variety of reasons, and I am by no means privy to all of them. My guess would be addiction, status-seeking behavior or something of the sort. The player is in the subordinate position since they don't actually get to design activities/rewards/incentives, so it's really up to Jagex to make sure they are properly structured. I can't speak to any of this personally because I decided moments after the trimmed cape was released that I would never, under any circumstances, even attempt to go for it(much like my decision to never pursue 200M XP in skills), because I don't think that's a healthy or productive use of my time. I don't ever want to legitimately try it, nor do I ever want to bot for it; I just don't care about the cape and can live without it. It's not even a matter of this particular requirement of 5,000 games for me, for I would not pursue the trimmed cape even if they removed this particular requirement tomorrow, despite me nearly being maxed. But then, not everyone is like me. There are people out there who for whatever reason are willing to spend inordinate and ungodly amounts of time on the game for virtual achievements and while their conditions/motivations can't be faulted onto Jagex, I do think that Jagex should act responsibly and not try to exploit or encourage them.

 

That's my response if you were inquiring about people who legitimately make an effort to accomplish these kinds of things. If you're talking about the people who feel the need to get the cape but can't actually sit through the thing and would rather bot, I presume they are hooked onto the game enough to want to have such things but they don't have the patience/time/"real-life skill"(if it can be called that) or what have you, in order to pursue it "legitimately". I don't think Jagex is at fault that there are people who obsess over games to such an extent that they would do these kinds of absurd things(there are obviously personal reasons for that), but I do think that Jagex should not try to encourage them. So, there are people in the game who would be willing to do ridiculous things(like play 5,000 games of Cwars for a virtual cape without botting), but if Jagex didn't make it a requirement for a desirable item, then those people, despite their temperament, would likely not play 5,000 games of Cwars.

[n64jive]

This whole argument is ridiculous, and I feel like I'm getting involved in my son's "whose dad can beat up whose dad" arguments. Comparing the ethical decisions of someone playing a game to other ethical decisions they would make in real life situations is ridiculous. Take for instance the gameshow "Take it all" or "Golden Balls" or "Friend or Foe". In this game, you elect to share the money with your opponent, or steal the money from your opponent. Does that mean that anyone choosing to steal would be inclined to steal from any person?

 

What doesn't correlate to runescape in said previous example is the fact that the decision is part of the game. But by the design of Runescape, players are geared towards botting. Runescape isn't a game that most people will enjoy start to finish. There is the start, at which point everything is fun, there is the middle, where I would say 90% of your game lifetime is spent, and there is the end game. Runescape is a game with 1000's or hours of gameplay, however only a small percentage of that gameplay is unique.

 

To sum it all up, I don't think anyone is saying they enjoy botters or that it isn't a negative impact on the game. However I feel most of us can sympathize with botters. Ultimately the blame falls on Jagex. It is their job to regulate the game, and they have done a pretty piss poor job at it.

[Ghosttalon]

Obviously, Donnie, I do get it. But MontyChuck has more than ably framed a response that I would have given almost verbatim. A lot has been written overnight about who is "responsible" for this mess. Responsibility is a trait of an individual. I have given Jagex it's fair share of grief on RSOF for mishandling their antibot measures, but the fault, dear players, lies with you. However well or poorly Jagex has dealt with the issue, the individuals that make the choice to bot are clearly going against the agreement that was part of signing on to the game; they are shirking their responsibility to the game, and more importantly, the game's community.

 

I stand by my assertion that how you view and treat your own goals, not to mention other people, on an online multiplayer game will be very similar to your attitude to those things where it does matter, in real life. Step back and evaluate that for a moment.

 

If you want to not "jump through hoops" then go back to your individual console games, use the cheat codes, and be done. Oh but wait. No one to "show off" to there, is there? So what? You have nothing to show off, same as having nothing to show off when you cheat a 99, or a completionist cape, or anything else that takes effort to get. If you have problems with the particular hoops, complain to the game's maker. I certainly agree that 5k Castle Wars games is a ridiculous requirement. And as long as it's in place I have no intention ever of going for, or getting, a completionist cape. Life is too short to spend in 5k 20 minute games for an old fart like me. :razz: But those that have the time to spend, and want to do that, well I'm not going to belittle their achievement by plunking my character down in CW while I'm away at work or something.

 

Cheers.

[Donnie]

Anyways to your other point I didn't design real life MMO so dont complain about it, its irrelevant.

 

It's very relevant, it's effectively an exaggerated example of what griefers and cheaters do in games. If you can't justify it in real life don't try to justify it in a game.

 

Your poor gameplay experience as a result of cheaters is a result of those decisions not the fact that people are cheating.

 

You agreed to a contract when you signed up to play Runescape. Now, you can bot all you want, but when you click that button to run your macro, that's your hand, not Jagex's. There's a difference between Jagex giving you reasons to bot and Jagex forcing you to bot.

 

Obviously, Donnie, I do get it. But MontyChuck has more than ably framed a response that I would have given almost verbatim. A lot has been written overnight about who is "responsible" for this mess. Responsibility is a trait of an individual. I have given Jagex it's fair share of grief on RSOF for mishandling their antibot measures, but the fault, dear players, lies with you. However well or poorly Jagex has dealt with the issue, the individuals that make the choice to bot are clearly going against the agreement that was part of signing on to the game; they are shirking their responsibility to the game, and more importantly, the game's community.

 

I stand by my assertion that how you view and treat your own goals, not to mention other people, on an online multiplayer game will be very similar to your attitude to those things where it does matter, in real life. Step back and evaluate that for a moment.

 

If you want to not "jump through hoops" then go back to your individual console games, use the cheat codes, and be done. Oh but wait. No one to "show off" to there, is there? So what? You have nothing to show off, same as having nothing to show off when you cheat a 99, or a completionist cape, or anything else that takes effort to get. If you have problems with the particular hoops, complain to the game's maker. I certainly agree that 5k Castle Wars games is a ridiculous requirement. And as long as it's in place I have no intention ever of going for, or getting, a completionist cape. Life is too short to spend in 5k 20 minute games for an old fart like me. :razz: But those that have the time to spend, and want to do that, well I'm not going to belittle their achievement by plunking my character down in CW while I'm away at work or something.

 

Cheers.

 

here is my argument more or less over again:

 

Bots aren't going away because people are willing to risk a ban for easier xp. Given that bots are not going away and certain aspects of runescape are negatively affected by bots then Jagex is obligated to alter them if they care about the players gameplay experience.

 

What Jagex is currently doing is saying, "these aspects of runescape that are negatively affected dont need to be fixed because we are about to make botting technically impossible in runescape". Given that I am right about botting being technically impossible to stop then Jagex's response is wrong.

 

 

Your response says nothing to what I am trying to say. I dont care about why you ought not bot, or why botting makes people good or bad people. At the end of the day its the companies responsibility to make a fun game not the players responsibility to be entertained. Given that botting ruins the fun for non botters Jagex should alter other aspects of the game to be fun despite botters because it is literally impossible for them to stop people from botting. I dont care about peoples reasons, whether its castle wars or agility being boring I care about the fact that people do it and Jagex can't stop it. I never said I bot, nor have I ever said if I support it directly. I just make arguments on the assumption that Jagex will never fix the problem.

 

 

But i will say, after getting cheat engine and ploping that cape on yourself the achievement will feel worthless. Having got some achievements of my own in rs I can tell you they more or less feel just as worthless if you got them fully legit. So save yourself the 5k games and download cheat engine if you want to know how the cape feels. As far as attention goes, you can get 100x more attention from bug abuse then xp. So this is mind I dont dont really know why people want to bot, nor do I care. I care only about the fact that a lot of people choose to do so.

[Quyneax]

At the end of the day its the companies responsibility to make a fun game not the players responsibility to be entertained.

That is just ridiculous. Jagex offers anyone (over 13) the opportunity to make an account, completely without obligation. It is Jagex' goal to make money, and in their interest to make the game fun (because people pay for fun games). However, if you accept that offer, it is your own responsibility, and Jagex is by no means required to do anything beyond what the law and the terms of service specify. Keeping yourself to the agreement you have made with Jagex when creating your account is your responsibility, just like it is Jagex' responsibility to keep themselves to the ToS.

 

In short, if you don't like the game, then that's your problem.

[Donnie]

At the end of the day its the companies responsibility to make a fun game not the players responsibility to be entertained.

That is just ridiculous. Jagex offers anyone (over 13) the opportunity to make an account, completely without obligation. It is Jagex' goal to make money, and in their interest to make the game fun (because people pay for fun games). However, if you accept that offer, it is your own responsibility, and Jagex is by no means required to do anything beyond what the law and the terms of service specify. Keeping yourself to the agreement you have made with Jagex when creating your account is your responsibility, just like it is Jagex' responsibility to keep themselves to the ToS.

 

In short, if you don't like the game, then that's your problem.

 

Yeah money making is the end goal... because you have a crowd of people that enjoy your game. A long term solution to the botting problem is to keep the game fun despite half the playerbase cheating. As is we have lots of problems, like half the training areas are packed with bots. Thats something Jagex has the ability to fix, thats something im advocating.

 

Im not justifying botting. I fully agree with the punishment for not keeping your agreement with the ToS a permanent ban. I am simply saying changes need to be made to keep legitimate players interested depsite a huge playerbase of cheaters. Im pretty sure I wrote this same sentence in bold in my last post.