Barrows - Rise of the Six

[Saradomin_Mage]

2nd try, managed to kill everything on the right side. Unfortunately someone died on the left so we didn't win that one.

 

Not as terrible as first anticipated, but then again I was only taking down Karil. Only had to tank one of his bombs.

[Yoko Kurama]

The thing with this boss is, that you will eventually get pretty good and know all the tactics -- however, it has so many things that are annoying, that even on a good day and a slight error will mean you're dead. It definitely needs a nerf to be less forgiving -- not a major nerf, but just enough so that if you make a mistake that you should be able to live. I only say that here because on most other bosses (like Nex), even though they might some attacks that have KO abilities, usually you can predict it, and there's only one, but in this new boss you have to memorize, accurately predict and evade several attacks. 

 

I can certainly get bosses at this kill and I have but a lot of it is just annoying. For instance, I have gotten times where Karil was doing his bomb, Ahrim was doing his fire thing AND something was spinning. Even the best PVMers can't escape out of this situation. What's a person to do? Other times, I was in the shadow realm, but I was down back into the main game just as there were spins/bombs. So it definitely needs minor tweaks to get rid of situations like that. They shouldn't be able to use like 3 KO abilities with very long range simultaneously.

 

Then the run back after the kill, there have been times where someone got trapped in obstacles (can't move at all, no mining, no jumping over it, no nothing). That also seems incredibly stupid and a cheap way to rob someone of their energies...

 

At the same time, despite all the difficulties, the drops are very common and they are all crashing hard. This new update has the potential to be like the old barrows: very good gear that's reasonably cheap and affordable. So definitely a positive.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Karil's bomb has actually got quite a bit of warning time, if he appears on your side for no reason, you know that you immediately have to get the hell out of there. Was quite easy to predict him once that got figured out.

 

Quite a pain when you're taking on the melee brothers and they start doing their beyblade crap though, but usually you can get out of there without disaster. Biggest annoyance I've had today, though, was when Torag pulled his hammertime act, just as Karil zipped through a portal next to me -.-

[Yoko Kurama]

Karil's bomb has actually got quite a bit of warning time, if he appears on your side for no reason, you know that you immediately have to get the hell out of there. Was quite easy to predict him once that got figured out.

 

Quite a pain when you're taking on the melee brothers and they start doing their beyblade crap though, but usually you can get out of there without disaster. Biggest annoyance I've had today, though, was when Torag pulled his hammertime act, just as Karil zipped through a portal next to me -.-

 

Karil's bomb alone is extremely easy to avoid, especially if you're all on Skype/TS/whatever. It's only when OTHER stuff happens with Karil that sometimes it becomes silly. So like I surged away from a bomb and JUST then, Ahrim starts firing up and I land in the KO spot.

[Flyingjj]

It seemed to me when watching streams that if someone takes the shadow portal that karil creates prior to the bomb, it doesn't explode.

[jayc3399]

It seemed to me when watching streams that if someone takes the shadow portal that karil creates prior to the bomb, it doesn't explode.

That is correct but it doesn't leave you a whole lot of time to get to it if your not beside it to start and even half a second to slow and you can take 7800 dmg.

[Yoko Kurama]

Okay, I have done this quite a while now. And some of the mechanics are just [bleep]ing ridiculous. Like being able to get hit with bombs from the other side. Or having bombs and and then running into Ahrim's fire. Or bombs + spins. It's just downright stupid. You do the whole kill perfectly, and you have the misfortune of getting bad specials from the brothers and instant KO. Half the luck factor needs to be nerfed. The boss should be a skillful thing, not just "be lucky not to get caught in two specials" thing. It's getting really annoying now.

[RSDwaynee]

The middle of the rooms although spacious ARENT were your meant to be! Hugs the walls & stay away from the portal thing in the middle then you should be fine. 

Simply doing that will avoid silly deaths like a bomb south then surging into Ahrim's flame attack which ALWAYS spawns on the north side of the room. 

If a bomb spawns next to you while your hammered in the ground, eat up & put on a pneck if you must, all the combo's you've said are avoidable & if you was in my team you'd still get the blame.

Getting combo'd happens often but for the most part it's because your doing something wrong.

[Yoko Kurama]

It's usually not that simple. I always hug the walls, however, sometimes the spinners drive my away. And of course I use P Necklaces. I have gotten a lot of kills. Usually it's my teammates that fall to those things. Forum teammaters; whatcha gonna do?

[RSDwaynee]

It really is that simple, the only thing that complicates things that I can think of is if your team is tanking the wrong people eg, 1 person taking Torag & Verac while the other takes Guthans.. That's wrong and will lead to a combo death. Also add me my pm's always on, maybe we can go sometime depending on your gear/ lvls. :P

[Yoko Kurama]

Most of the teams I am with are good, it's just some bad luck that messes everything up. Some combination of multiple specials. It's just completely retarded. Like I said, you can do the whole kill perfectly and get [bleep]ed by one thing.

[Urza285]

What is a p necklace? Oh phoenix necklace.

[Yoko Kurama]

So I have gotten dozens of successful kills at this point, and probably been on that many teams as well, that is to say, I have given this update more than a fair share. All I can is that it is a complete letdown. The mechanics are just too ridiculous, too annoying, and at times too difficult. I have been able to get kills, so this is not whining on a personal level, but I have seen other teams there for days that haven't gotten a kill. Especially if you don't have Seismics/Ascensions, the extra damage really helps. Just a ton of stupid stuff from mechanics, sometimes you blink and it's an instant KO, other times, you're near the end and they start doing lame glitches, and other times, it's just too many specials. It's completely idiotic that there are teams who have been there for days without a kill -- they keep getting close, but each time one tiny variable just goes wrong -- this whole thing is like betting at a casino. They decided to throw every [bleep]ing thing to piss people off they could into one update (without considering how they might all interact), it's just a mess. Bosses should be skillful, not require a game of pure luck. Some of these mechanics simply should not be allowed to occur simultaneously. There have been times where we killed the brothers (all of them), and because of glitches we didn't get any loot and they all re-spawned...

 

It's clear that this update was made to line the pockets of streamers like Dardan and iTrolledU. Next time instead of releasing something like this and wasting everyone's time, maybe they should just directly deposit the 5-10B or whatever into their bank instead.

 

It makes all their hype all the more ridiculous, about how this would be a reasonable boss much more do-able than Vorago -- it isn't. The old adage that they don't play their own game is certainly appropriate here. For the majority of high level players, all this update will mean is throwing away hundreds of deaths, and thousands of supplies for a few kills. I was able to get away with it because I did it with elite teams that I skyped with and did it for a few day, it was a very steep learning curve. Anytime you have to change people, it messes up. When there are dozens of teams that get maybe a handful of kills for a day's worth, you know the boss is designed wrong. What a waste of time. 

[Lord Zophar]

I echo your sentiments Kurama, my clan has yet to be able to do a kill. We can comfortably do Vorago, so we are not bad PVMers. Maybe not the best, but not bad. And we all have Ascensions.

 

The prices are falling very fast, and soon this will be dead content because it won't be worth the frustration that comes from the absurd luck factor.

[RSDwaynee]

Meh, there are people who have gotten constant kills since day one & others that have failed constantly, it's unfortunate but you can't blame the game... 

The streamers you mentioned are proof it's possible to get b2b kills all day & night, on day on release Dardan's team was really bad.. after switching a few people he's now getting an almost 100% success rate - that's more than enough proof some people are liabilities and have a huge impact on the whole kill. 

 

IMO the only thing that's wrong is the huge reliance on your other team mates, if one person messes up then that's gf the kill (depending on which side there on). 

 

I think the boss is designed nicely it actually takes a bit of skill, once you get the hang of it it's really quite easy, yes there will be sometimes when you get "Jagex'd" but 95% of the time it's down to human error so there really is no one else to blame but yourself & to try to improve next time.

 

Is it harder than Vorago? - In a way yes, but in a way also no... Barrows takes actual skill, you need to be vigilant at all times blah blah, I'd say it's more comparable to Nex. Vorago does have high gear requirements but is very slow paced and more of a endurance thing till phase 5, we certainly couldn't get through phase 5 of Vorago with the gear we use for Barrows. :P

[Wkw]

The difference between vorago, nex, and barrows, is that you don't need top end gear to do vorago, kk and nex.

 

You're quite able to do nex with t70 gear. Yes, it will obviously be a bit longer for a kill, but if you know what you are doing, it can be done. I've done it. No big deal

Vorago, you are also able to get by with t80 weapons. Obviously it is not ideal because T90 melee weapons are affordable, but it CAN be done with less if you know what you are doing.

KK is easy once you learn what it does. There is very little luck involved. IIRC the only part where you would be dead from luck would be if you got a bleed, used freedom, and then he started to mage.. Which could also be considered user error

Barrows, can also be done with T80 weapons, but there is a LOT less skill involved with barrows... It is more luck, and sloppy mechanics.

[RSDwaynee]

You all keep on going about this luck factor... whats lucky about getting a kill at barrows?

Give me some examples of being unlucky that happens regularly then I'll agree.

[Wkw]

Not luck about getting a kill, luck about getting killed.

 

Example.. You exit the shadow realm in the midst of ahrim going turret or a bomb going off. And then you die.

[RSDwaynee]

That's hardly a common occurrence though, also that is why you safe up in the shadow realm.. bomb is what 8k max if your standing right next to it, and you can surge from a turrent tbh, just moving stops its dmg. 

[Wkw]

I really think that you are coming from the direction of "i know how the fight works, and you don't, that makes you bad"... because thats how you are coming off to me.

 

Along with the fact that the bomb range is far greater than the visual graphic, and that every single one of the "specials that will kill you" are totally random and can't be predicted lead to a very luck based fight.

[Saradomin_Mage]

I think there are some ledges in each side of the room (small alcoves you can tuck into) that allow you to avoid Karil's/Ahrim's spinning attacks no matter where they spawn. If you're about to exit the shadow realm you can just aim for one of these spots so that you'll exit into relative safety. Co-ordinate with your teammates so that they never bring the melee brothers to these areas.

 

There's definitely a lot of finer stuff to learn, as well as difficulty in co-ordinating especially if you keep changing teams. Just joined a new one today and it works very differently compared to yesterday.

[V O R K]

^that's cool

[V O R K]

I really think that you are coming from the direction of "i know how the fight works, and you don't, that makes you bad"... because thats how you are coming off to me.

 

Along with the fact that the bomb range is far greater than the visual graphic, and that every single one of the "specials that will kill you" are totally random and can't be predicted lead to a very luck based fight.

 

So it's more like, I don't know what to do therefore it's unfair and it must be fixed? GFX errors are lame though and should be fixed, what else do we have but visual/verbal ques.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Karil's bomb should definitely look more dangerous visually, yes.

[Ammako]

I really think that you are coming from the direction of "i know how the fight works, and you don't, that makes you bad"... because thats how you are coming off to me.

That's the point!

 

If you don't know how the fight works, then of course you can expect to die more often than someone who does.