Tip.It Times Presents: Jagex and Emergent Gameplay

[Thus]

There are a few things I would like to point out:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you want a more fun example of emergent gameplay? There's lots of those too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of my favourites is the way a whole chain of people can follow each other and form conga lines. Which wasn't an "intended" feature. Even more fun when everyone dresses up the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or my personal favourite, when you form such a chain around an object like a tree and everyone whizzes round in circles :) Suffice to say I didn't expect that to happen at all, but it is cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Synchronized dancing with emotes is rather cool too, although quite hard to pull off. Perhaps that's another example where in the future we could add features to try to further support an emergent gameplay (no plans to do this at the moment though as we've got so many projects already on the go!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Methinks Sir Andrew is coming up with some random and honestly bad examples of "emergent gameplay".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The congaline thing isn't emergent gameplay when the feature of following people was intended from the start.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Synchronized Dancing?? You have to be kidding me. [sarcasm] i just came up with synchronized walking yesterday, what amazing emergent gameplay!!! Don't forget synchronized FISHING!!! [/sarcasm] Seriously, that isn't emergent gameplay. Things like this are inevitable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just my 2 cents

[halo2_rocks7]

There are a few things I would like to point out:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you want a more fun example of emergent gameplay? There's lots of those too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of my favourites is the way a whole chain of people can follow each other and form conga lines. Which wasn't an "intended" feature. Even more fun when everyone dresses up the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or my personal favourite, when you form such a chain around an object like a tree and everyone whizzes round in circles :) Suffice to say I didn't expect that to happen at all, but it is cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Synchronized dancing with emotes is rather cool too, although quite hard to pull off. Perhaps that's another example where in the future we could add features to try to further support an emergent gameplay (no plans to do this at the moment though as we've got so many projects already on the go!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Methinks Sir Andrew is coming up with some random and honestly bad examples of "emergent gameplay".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The congaline thing isn't emergent gameplay when the feature of following people was intended from the start.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Synchronized Dancing?? You have to be kidding me. [sarcasm] i just came up with synchronized walking yesterday, what amazing emergent gameplay!!! Don't forget synchronized FISHING!!! [/sarcasm] Seriously, that isn't emergent gameplay. Things like this are inevitable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just my 2 cents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hahaha I was thinking the exact same thing. Sir Gower was just bringing in some useless examples of emergent gameplay that they allowed to stay in the game. He knows that their have been others that were funny and very cool, and yet got rid of them because they didn't like it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh well.

[Allthetime]

Lets nor forget that, following swampjedi's Pixels article spirit, MMORPGS are social networks that extend and support real people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the other important dimension beeing a business: customer service is way more than senseless pro-forma autoreplys. There is (or i dare say there should be) responsibility.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the other hand of this, Marketing-wise they're letting opportunity pass them too not acting on all the wonderful ideas and needs posted and voted on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---------

 

 

 

 

 

 

Research in a number of academic fields has shown that social networks operate on many levels, from families up to the level of nations, and play a critical role in determining the way problems are solved, organizations are run, and the degree to which individuals succeed in achieving their goals.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_network

 

 

 

[Biabf]

 

kaira, please get an interveiw with andrew

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are working on that.

Would this not reveal the idenity of the Editor to Jagex. Isn't the point of having a secret editor to stop him/her getting in trouble?

 

 

 

Btw, an interview with Andrew would be amazing! Just don't get in trouble for it.

[Duckersmash3]

how to comment on this without violating a set time on the statue of limations for jagex banning...... :-k :anxious: :pray: :ohnoes: uh good article!!!

[tyrant_iv]

you want a more fun example of emergent gameplay? There's lots of those too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of my favourites is the way a whole chain of people can follow each other and form conga lines. Which wasn't an "intended" feature. Even more fun when everyone dresses up the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or my personal favourite, when you form such a chain around an object like a tree and everyone whizzes round in circles :) Suffice to say I didn't expect that to happen at all, but it is cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Synchronized dancing with emotes is rather cool too, although quite hard to pull off. Perhaps that's another example where in the future we could add features to try to further support an emergent gameplay (no plans to do this at the moment though as we've got so many projects already on the go!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also when 2 people follow each other and you end up "dancing", it's not exactly some fancy ballroom thing but it's fun and i don't think it was intended when the game was made that people would use the follow option to dance, but everyone does it. also when you want to face away from a wall and it's impossible to click around the map to do it you can just try casting a spell on someone and it says something like "you cant cast a spell on this person outside the wilderness" and then you turn around with your back to the wall. thats just 2 things no one really thinks or cares about but everyone does and it's fun and usefull, and i'm pretty sure its "emergent gameplay".

[apeaaron]

I would just like to say that I played Runescape for 2 years and quit to play WoW and concerning the whole items thing, if you did get dropped from a cliff and die it is wicked compared to Runescape because your items suffer 10% durability damage, this will cost you, depending on how good your armor is ( anywhere from 10 silver to 5 gold, about 100gp-10,000gp ). Either way though it will not be a ridiculously large amount of money, or even a large amount of money. I don't see hwo the editor can compare these two things as if you dropped somebody wearing full dharok's off a cliff they would lose their items and a amount of money which would be very large, and in WoW if you fall off a cliff it costs you only a little bit. Obviously if dropping people off a cliff made them lose their items Blizzard would freeze people's accounts and fix the bug, but it causes no harm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways my point is that if the editor is going to start comparing games they better compare them in ways that are fair and they shouldn't compare a game with another game that they have never played.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also one other thing about WoW is that it is made by a large company who has several popular games before WoW. At this point in the company they either don't care about small bugs ( like the cliff thing ), or don't have the time to fix it. Whereas in RuneScape the original developer's are still involved, and this game is a matter of pride to them, they care when it turns out their game has a "bug". I think you should all be flattered that Jagex cares enough and takes the time to fix bugs in the game, and that the CREATOR of the game will take time out of his schedule to post on your measly forum...

[apeaaron]

Also most people in the game do not have such good armor to cost 5 gold to repair 10% of it. To get that good armor you would have to be in an end-game guild and play 24/7 to get the top armor in the game. WoW is a lot different as you need 40 people ( 25 now ) to do top dungeons and get good armor and it takes anywhere from 5-15 hours to do one dungeon, in which case you will have lots of other people of your class and may not get any loot... :shock: the people who spend 5 gold for 10% ( 50 gold for completely wrecked ) have no lives and play way to much, and you need 40 of them -.- . The usual cost of repairing 10% armor damage would be like 5k in RuneScape for a level 70 in WoW. So it's not very much at all.

[Doughnut]

Quick question, is the fast weapon/slow weapon combo in PvP emergent play?

[D. V. Devnull]

Quick question, is the fast weapon/slow weapon combo in PvP emergent play?

 

 

 

Uhm, might I ask what you're talking about? :-s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Mr. Devnull

[Doughnut]

 

Quick question, is the fast weapon/slow weapon combo in PvP emergent play?

 

 

 

Uhm, might I ask what you're talking about? :-s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Mr. Devnull

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When in the wildy you use a fast weapon then to ko the person you switch to a slower weapon like a 2 hand or a Maul. I don't think Jagex did that on purpose, but left it there because it provides some tact to other wise quite boring fights.

[cerrado]

 

 

 

I think you also need to make the distinction between emergent gameplay that improves the game (cool - leave it in, even support it in some cases), and emergent gameplay that actually totally spoils/unbalances it (best to be fixed). I would have thought this distinction a key part of any article on the subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I cant really rule in favor of either side here, but i do want to comment on it, hoping that i have quoted the right part of the post to make it realevant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel like emergent gameplay has been supressed some places, and allowed others when it should have gone different ways in both cases on occasion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take the most recent uproar - the 3rd party client debate. Here you have BOTH forms of emergent gameplay, that which "improves" the game, and that whick spoils it. You have the helpfull tools on the various clients which were, untill recent updates (for some) deemed illegal, and you have the people who choose to abuse them, like those who used chat to scam/hack.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taking the policy of "if in doubt, DONT ban", where does the line get drawn? Say you have a client - any old world switcher, none in particular - that provides all the unofficial tools that are enjoyed by the runescape population, but it is also abused by certain players so that a few get scammed. (Again this is a hypothetical situation, not playing off of any recent statements. ) Does JaGex weigh the pros and cons of banning said program, or is it automaticly black-listed because of the few players who are taken advantage of?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The key here is not the 3rd party clients, but the idea of "is emergent gameplay considered before being suppressed, or automaticly deemed bad if it has even the smallest fault".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No matter what the case, it is certainly an entertaining read from both parties =D>

[Nathaninch]

The coolest thing Jagex ever did was bring back the 'boing boing' hill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If that isn't supporting emergent game play, I don't know what is.

[sniper1]

great article =D> =D> \

[the_drunk_dude]

great article =D> =D> \

 

 

 

lol, your not late at all

[D. V. Devnull]

Off-Topic, but must be answered to:

 

 

 

 

great article =D> =D> \

 

 

 

lol, your not late at all

 

 

 

Actually, and quite technically, they aren't. If my memory serves right, there is a "1 month before you can't post anymore" limit on most all threads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ask a staff member if you don't believe me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Mr. Devnull

[reaper88888]

Hmm... Methinks the author hit the nail on the head. JaGEx just doesn't want their game to grow up... Makes me kinda sad to see a game with such potential be ruined by it's own creators... :(

[shigaruvolt9]

Has this guy even played RS1 or RS2? Looks like he copy and pasted 10 peoples comments and stuck them together. Rubbish article, try playing the games and doing research before posting something like this. And who the hell is this editor? talking down about RS2 and up about WoW lol.

 

 

 

Have you? Actually I think your name sounds familiar from RSC. But maybe you could point out why it seems that this author never played RSC or RS2 so you don't sound so unintelligent.

 

 

 

Very cool article. I never really thought about pures like that. Pures and stakers are the only thing that are keeping RSC *somewhat* alive to this day. I think playing on my pures and staker back on RSC was probably the most fun I've had in a video game ever. And Jagex spoiled it for me, among many many others.

 

 

 

Yes I have played WoW, RS1, RS2 ALOT so i'm not like this guy who is just talking out his [wagon] about nothing.

 

 

 

He talks about how runescape1 was "humerous", he is talking as if the game is a joke or something, regardless of the intentions of the creation of this game it should be respected and not laughed at. He knows nothing about how "pures" came about in rs1, and the only thing humerous is his perception of such things.

 

 

 

Now he starts talking about RS2 being more balanced, with the pvp triangle, and how they "destroyed" emergent gameplay, when he is just too foolish to see it hasn't gone away, it has just changed, another reason showing he knows nothing about RS2. Balance doesn't mean loss of creativity, it means the creativity will be more balanced. He says about the hard work of creative gamers being thrown away, a couple of people created the pure and experimenting, it caught on, everyone started doing it, this is nothing to do with hard work, if that is hard work he should try having a job or going to school or something which involves real hard work. And then he trashes RS2 wilderness, is this guy level 20 and just lost his full set of bronze in his first encounter with the wilderness? He trashes RS2 wild again, he recognizes the emergent gameplay in RS2 yet still trashes it in the tone he talks about it with, saying RS2 is sterilized.

 

 

 

Now the editor hasn't even played WoW and is talking about their "friends", and gives us a lecture about how little kids play RS2 more than they play WoW, whilst telling us that immature things are accepted in WoW but would not be tollerated in RS2. Their comment about the pricing is also laughable, have they even looked at the pricing and compared the two games prices?

 

 

 

Why are they trashing the fact that Jagex are looking after the game and keep boundaries and rules, and enforcing them, truly amazing.

 

 

 

And that is why this article is ridiculous.

 

 

 

Some of the things you've said don't make sense. If he doesn't know how pures truly came about, then how about you enlighten us? And I don't really understand what point you're making on your other comments.

[Samurai_1909]

A very interesting article.

 

 

 

I do feel that Jagex may have remved some emergent gameplay but, i think that creating a pure for pking then killing everyone in the wilderness requires no real tactics and is kinda stupid, whhy should people who have spent a long time leveling up all their skills be beaten by someone who has taken half as much time to level.

 

Because the pure has used his brains more.

 

Requires no real tactics? I have to disagree. The pure has levelled only the stats which he really needs in the wilderness. Using combos to KO people also requires strategy. You say making pures is kinda stupid. IMO its kinda stupid to train all your stats as high as possible on a pking acc, even those which aren't very useful.

[FooK-A-Ji]

"Some of my friends and I have noticed that, rather than encourage emergent game play, Jagex tends to get agitated when players use the game in imaginative ways they hadn't thought of. They call it "bug abuse" and rush to stop it faster than the IRS closing a tax loophole."

 

A bit exaggerated, since catching was actually bug-abuse, and accepted by Andrew in Rs1.

 

 

 

"According to my friends who play (shhhhh!) WoW, this is called "Clever manipulation of game mechanics" by Blizzard, whose policy seems to be something like: While We Are Surprised and Totally Never Thought of that, it's OK with us and we are NOT gonna change it, heh heh. One such example is summoning people to join your group (RS equivalent: agreeing to "accept aid" for a teleport), normally a harmless event. Except when the summoner is standing at the edge of a cliff. When summoned, the victim does a mid-air Wile E. Coyote and falls to the bottom of the cliff, dead, suffering expensive damage to their armour (they don't lose their stuff though, and there are no benefits to the summoner except the laughs). Needless to say, YouTube has several hilarious videos of this "undocumented feature" in progress. Can you imagine Jagex's response to something like that? There would probably be mass bannings for "bug abuse" and a very fast fix, or removal of the ability to teleport others."

 

 

 

Mass bannings to appease the thousands of little 13 yr olds whining their hearts out, kind of like whats happening with the whole staking deal atm. So if you look closer, its because of the RS players that they make the decisions. People whine like female dogs over dying because of something THEY THEMSELVES caused upon themselves, but its so easy to give jagex the blaim instead. If something similar was possible in RS2, it would be removed simply because of the amount of "dumb" players, those being the ones who crave signs all over the place and wilderness ditches, thats just the beginning of the list... . :roll:

 

 

 

Good read, although I felt a twinge of bias towards Jagex. Something there is enough of in the posts on this forum.

[SwreeTak]

An intresting, even though it's 10 months old now.

[INFINTEBAJAN2]

how do i acquire junk?

[Pat_61]

Good read. Very Interesting and I agree about jagex.

[Barihawk]

I'm not a fan of the editor's comments. Jagex is not Blizzard, and they have the right to do whatever they wish in their game. We may not always agree with it, but we have two choices. Stay and adapt, or quit.

 

 

 

I'm not saying you don't have a point, but the article really makes you sound self-righteous and "holier than Jagex." Especially with that summoning bit. Yeah, that's funny for the summoner, but do you have any idea how frustrating and annoying that would be to the summonee? You would be costing them time, effort, and money just for a few laughs. Which is an egotistical and self-centered view.

 

 

 

I give a thumbs up to the original article, thumbs down to the editor this time around.

[Made0f12une]

Great Article.

 

 

 

Maybe we'll see more of this creativeness and imaginativeness that you spoke of seen kept around in the game when Jagex get its new head.

 

 

 

We'll see. I think this new head of Runescape is going to have a lot of changes for the game.

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: After reading Bari's comment I realized that Runescape doesn't really have any cliffs... Just really really big hills (Trollhiem)