67 replies to this topic

[Racheya]

Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

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Read these rules before posting in this thread

Cowman_133, on 18 November 2010 - 12:20 AM, said:

Rampant flame wars have taken control of virtually every week's times discussion topics. The following guidelines must be followed when posting on this topic. Posts that ignore these guidelines will be removed.

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This policy is effective as of now, November 17, 2010. Any posts prior to the creation of this policy may or may not be removed according to the new guidelines.

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Enjoy the articles!

[Jaffy1]

Quote

This is where the incentive to bot comes from: the motivation that players get from Jagex.

Although skillcapes are indeed incentive for players to get 99s, I don't believe they encourage botting as much as other issues. The massive increase in bots after the trade limits were removed would imply that people mainly bot for other reasons. RWT and creating cash are probably high on that list, but that doesn't mean 99s are botted because RWTers all want skillcapes.

It's good to remember that RWT does not equal botting by definition.

However, I do agree that the completist cape would encourage people to bot for it. The amount of castle wars games required is mind-boggling.

What's also interesting, is that we can assume Jagex adds these capes to keep players playing the game (by providing goals), yet if they encourage botting as a side effect, are they worth it?

[kamykazee]

Interesting articles. My congratulations to the writers, both of them

I will only comment on the second article, and state that i do not believe skill capes are a major influence in the botting activity. That is mostly because of the increase in popularity of the game. The place where the articles strikes home, however, is that players have indeed 'alienated' themselves a bit because of these capes. The temptation is great, especially with the completionist cape and the new range of capes going from level 10 to 99. It is quite fun to have those capes, they look posh and what not, but the effort required to get them is not worth it, in my opinion, unless ofcourse you enjoy the journey it ensues.

[strilmus]

That being said, a large part of botting implies that a bot would be better suited for the task than a human....if they made it so a human's abilities were played up and it weren't so reliant on the "grind", it wouldn't be as useful to bot.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Both articles this week were pretty good; the second one caught my eye more.

I'll only speak in broad terms about the matter - Jagex seems to encourage botting indirectly by offering rewards (skillcapes) for tedious grinding.  In reality it's reasonable to get all of the capes without grinding, but in practice, that which is tedious is often automated.

[Nifflin]

The game isn't dying because of skillcapes.

Correlation =/= causation.

[oldyoung]

Jaffy1, on 22 May 2011 - 07:20 PM, said:

Quote

This is where the incentive to bot comes from: the motivation that players get from Jagex.

Although skillcapes are indeed incentive for players to get 99s, I don't believe they encourage botting as much as other issues. The massive increase in bots after the trade limits were removed would imply that people mainly bot for other reasons. RWT and creating cash are probably high on that list, but that doesn't mean 99s are botted because RWTers all want skillcapes.

It's good to remember that RWT does not equal botting by definition.

However, I do agree that the completist cape would encourage people to bot for it. The amount of castle wars games required is mind-boggling.

What's also interesting, is that we can assume Jagex adds these capes to keep players playing the game (by providing goals), yet if they encourage botting as a side effect, are they worth it?

true but what do you spend you gp on? i always used to buy d bones and herbs...  

basically the incentive for rwt is people who buy gp wich they use to grind 99's wich they want to "show off" with skill capes so i tottally agree with the article  

[Kaida23]

I totally agree with The Skillcape Killed Runescape; bots were prevalent before RWT, I'm sorry "free trade", was reintroduced because people were trying to grind their way to a 99 so they could get a skillcape and show off how hard they "worked". Is that Jagex's fault? Of course not; show me a RPG that doesn't involve some form of training to get your character to a high level. RuneScape just happens to do it for 25 skills instead of a handful.

I will object to one point, however:

Quote

Skillcapes, then, are the only motivation for people to get 99s.

How then would you explain the number of F2P lifers with not one, but several 99's? I myself am working on getting one (eventually, it's coming. No, really.   ) and am doing it for nothing more than the challenge it ensues.

As for Implications of a Long, I think removing the xp cap would only usher in a new era of competing for the highest rank in a skill and simply bring more bots into the game as more and more players would be trying to get ranked higher than all their friends.

[Crossed_Body]

First article was cool; Didn't read the second article because I heavily disagreed to the title and already knew where that would lead.

[Michael]

Should be noted that in the first article it says 120 is 103m, when in actuality its 104.2m.

[Andregiant]

Both articles were really good.

I perfectly understand  the first one, as I am a computer programmer myself.
The language I use (Basic, 1980''s)  lol, has a short 32,767, a single, 7 digits, and a long 15 digits.
Back then, hard disks held minimum storage, so you had to work your way around saving space.

So I sure understand the constraint they had at first.


As for the 2nd article, I've been playing since 2003, and yes!  the game sure has changed.
It used to be, for me, fishing a bit, mining a bit. then stitting around with friends, chatting.

No longer.  It's 'give me an hour, getting xx level soon'.  The friendship part is still there, but different

Don't get me wrong, I still love the game, but it has changed a lot.  

Evolution you think?   lol.

[sees_all1]

Michael, on 22 May 2011 - 10:30 PM, said:

Should be noted that in the first article it says 120 is 103m, when in actuality its 104.2m.

I don't know why I thought that. Thanks.

[The_Fray]

129-130-741-62750608

I saw the second article on RSOF, I did not find the author's evidence sufficient to prove his claims. The author goes into more depth about it on RSOF, so if you truly enjoyed the article then you can check out the original.

[SythenRs]

If Jagex came out with a fool proof method of detecting and banning every single player that had ever used a bot. Then I feel that both increasing max XP and introducing more rewards similar to the skill cape, would be fantastic additions to the game. Not to mention if they managed this the hi-scores would look a lot more reasonable.

[uath13]

I have to agree with the skillcape issue. I have a friend who's spending hours on end standing around in the G.E. buying himself a fletching skillcape.  Yea, that sounds like fun.   I may have a few skillcapes but they were all acheved unintentionally & without grinding for hours on end. I could have my firemaking cape tonight since I'm only 90k xp away from it but I'm not going to senselessly grind away at it to get it.

I managed to pull my buddy away for a little bit with the promise that I'd provide our disease protection as we thieved coffins in Jig Gig. Within 1/2 an hour the urge to go back to grinding for that cape overwhelmed him.

Worse yet is the fact that he's buying all those logs which just supports the bot industry.

[exterrrr]

Why does every times have to mention botting and rwt? I'm tired of it alredy.
You really have nothing else to write about?

[Kaida23]

exterrrr, on 23 May 2011 - 12:14 AM, said:

Why does every times have to mention botting and rwt? I'm tired of it alredy.
You really have nothing else to write about?

It's a big issue plaguing RS. It's hardly their fault that the bot/RWT problem is there, they're just writing about it.

[Dire_Wolf]

I really liked your article Nomad Rogue. Well done

I quit playing Runescape because of the path called "Grinding". And a classmate of mine said "Why do you play Runescape? IT*S A GRIND GAME!". I did not understand where he was coming from back then, because Runescape had a mild form of grinding. But with Completionist cape and Max, i now understand him better.

[Master_Smither]

exterrrr, on 23 May 2011 - 12:14 AM, said:

Why does every times have to mention botting and rwt? I'm tired of it alredy.
You really have nothing else to write about?

Although it's beating a dead horse per say, it is as important as 26king used to be. There were countless articles in regards to the inflation and problems it was causing, and they were all relative and immediate. Moreover, it's a topic which will draw discussion among the community and that is one the goals when we write.

There is plenty to write about within RuneScape, but we choose to pick the current issues at hand and address them. Sometimes a new opinion by an author or bringing an old opinion to light is enough to spark intelligent discussion of the topic, and that is what we love .

On a different note, very nice articles this week; both were good reads.

Good DYK this week as well.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Going to address various things in the second article, which looks like a rehash of Capescape V2, honestly.

Quote

As I message my friends to hang out, I get the typical “Not now man, I’m trying to train!” or “Dude I’m level 96! Gotta get 99 soon!” This begs the question, what caused this change in gameplay? Skillcapes.

Quote

there was no content driving me to grind for 99 Fletching aside from bragging to my friends by wearing a cape.

Perhaps this is why your friends are like that, hmm?
Not everyone grinds to 99 for bragging rights, too. On a personal level, I train my skills for personal satisfaction, and rising on the highscores is merely icing on the cake.

Quote

We all know that skills in RuneScape are mindless.

Dungeoneering.

Quote

Jagex unknowingly gave bots and real world traders every incentive to do their illicit activities.

This isn't a fault of Jagex, but rather the players that want the capes so they can go

Quote

bragging to [their] friends

despite putting in no personal effort whatsoever. Makes you wonder where their self respect is, doesn't it?
Not saying you do if that isn't clear, but that's my perception of the botter psyche.

Quote

Many players are mere shells of what they once were as for hours on end they repeat the same task merely for a cape. This is what is truly doing damage to the community.

What did people actually do before skillcapes came out? Did they actually do nothing but play together with their friends all the time?
Compare old school melee training, such as in the Legends' Guild with shadow warriors, with today's Slayer, in various locations. Both give interaction with other players and I generally find myself still talking to other people during tasks. Same as back then, they'd train for hours on end so that they could get to 126 combat, how is that different from owning a few melee capes?

Quote

We are now playing a dying game. Internet Research company Alexa has shown a 32% decrease in pageviews of Runescape.com over the last 3 months.

Thanks for my weekly dose of doomsaying, as usual.

Quote

There is nothing more we can do, except: play the game for fun,

Already doing that.

Quote

hang out with your friends more,

Already doing that in Dungeoneering.

Quote

be inviting to new players,

Already doing that with new clan members in DG.

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do not demean players for not having a certain skillcape,

Are you serious?

Quote

and STOP WORRYING ABOUT 99s.

WHAT, ME WORRY?