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Tip.It Times - 22nd May 2011


Racheya

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Article on integer sizes:

 

Conceptionally a long is still a restricted set. While your article some valid points on the client end of the changes it ignored the technical end completely. No, a long is not just a bigger int, and cannot just be replaced for it.

My target audience is not computer scientists; forgive me for not writing a book on the technical aspects.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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I thought the first article did a great job of looking at a common idea/thing in RS (maxing out) and applying an interesting technical view of the possible thought process behind it; now I want Jagex to change all those variables to longs. The second one gave an interesting perspective again, and also made me think some.

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Pretty boring articles, sorry! Or just not to my taste... I'd love to read RS-related stuff written in the Explosm fashion.

 

And I for one am very glad that the tip it times is not written in such a style.

Agreed. This would not be a good way to write the Times articles. If you want to read about Explosm-style RS adventures, check out the BlogScape section of the forum. Some of the people there are pretty good storytellers.

 

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THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P.

So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually...

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Going to address various things in the second article, which looks like a rehash of Capescape V2, honestly.

 

As I message my friends to hang out, I get the typical “Not now man, I’m trying to train!” or “Dude I’m level 96! Gotta get 99 soon!” This begs the question, what caused this change in gameplay? Skillcapes.
there was no content driving me to grind for 99 Fletching aside from bragging to my friends by wearing a cape.

Perhaps this is why your friends are like that, hmm? :P

Not everyone grinds to 99 for bragging rights, too. On a personal level, I train my skills for personal satisfaction, and rising on the highscores is merely icing on the cake.

 

We all know that skills in RuneScape are mindless.

Dungeoneering.

 

Jagex unknowingly gave bots and real world traders every incentive to do their illicit activities.

This isn't a fault of Jagex, but rather the players that want the capes so they can go

bragging to [their] friends
despite putting in no personal effort whatsoever. Makes you wonder where their self respect is, doesn't it?

Not saying you do if that isn't clear, but that's my perception of the botter psyche.

 

Many players are mere shells of what they once were as for hours on end they repeat the same task merely for a cape. This is what is truly doing damage to the community.

What did people actually do before skillcapes came out? Did they actually do nothing but play together with their friends all the time?

Compare old school melee training, such as in the Legends' Guild with shadow warriors, with today's Slayer, in various locations. Both give interaction with other players and I generally find myself still talking to other people during tasks. Same as back then, they'd train for hours on end so that they could get to 126 combat, how is that different from owning a few melee capes?

 

We are now playing a dying game. Internet Research company Alexa has shown a 32% decrease in pageviews of Runescape.com over the last 3 months.

Thanks for my weekly dose of doomsaying, as usual.

 

There is nothing more we can do, except: play the game for fun,

Already doing that.

hang out with your friends more,

Already doing that in Dungeoneering.

be inviting to new players,

Already doing that with new clan members in DG.

do not demean players for not having a certain skillcape,

Are you serious?

and STOP WORRYING ABOUT 99s.

WHAT, ME WORRY?

[/hide]

 

I don't typically respond to articles written in such a fallacious manner, with obvious fallacies such as hasty generalizations and slippery slopes. I understand that there may be a valid point, but it's typically unpleasant to read and any persuasive effect it may have is likely to be a sham. Another point of criticism would be the narrow focus - There are more effects than stated in the article with skillcapes, including economical effects as well as the attitude to RuneScape in general.

 

Unjustified doomsaying supported by poor use of evidence doesn't help the author in terms of persuasiveness either.

 

Overall, therefore, I don't think the second article has been well written, and the conclusions being drawn has not been very well founded.

 

Now, isn't EP recruiting...?

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Now, isn't EP recruiting...?

Yes, but unfortunately it's easier to criticize than to try and do it yourself.

 

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THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P.

So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually...

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Interesting articles this week, my $0.02.

 

1. The first article mentioned that by increasing the exp max, people would stop trying to grind these skill to the max. I believe this would actually increase competition. At current, once you have reached 200m exp, your location in the high scores is set. There is no way to advance higher or drop lower. By increasing the limit to basically infinity, this would provoke competition to raise in ranks. Ranks would no longer be locked down by order in which 200m exp was achieved, but whoever could grind more. The simple act of getting 200m exp shows true dedication and ability to grind for extended amounts of time. It should be no surprise that these people will try their hardest to rise in ranks. This would even prompt others not at 200m exp to try to raise in ranks. For the more common 200m exp skills, there is little glory in getting all 200m exp and being rank 250+. This will promote competition for these prestigious spots, not stop people from trying to reach an unobtainable amount of exp.

 

2. I think many points in the second article are valid, though I fail to see the absolute connection to skillcapes. The first few paragraphs talk about motivation and the prestige of a skillcape. While this is true for some, there are at least an equal amount of people who want an 99 to "complete" the skill. I won't mention the many other reasons one might want a 99, but suggesting people are getting these capes for the prestige of being one of the 100k man army with these capes is dubious. In addition, the connection to botting is simply false. While many botters do want skillcapes, saying skillcapes caused a great number of bots to pop up is simply untrue. Correlation does not imply causation. Granted botting grew after skillcapes, I believe this is simply due to the increase in popularity in the game. Years ago, bots were hard to find, fairly ineffective, and not as widespread as today. Now, you can find them off google in seconds. Bottom line, there is really little connection between the skillcape and bots. Lastly, more and more people are using otehr clients to play Runescape. These do not count as hits on the Runescape website, and have steadily risen in popularity due to their general helpfulness and convenience.

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Dungeoneering isn't a skill.

I'm faster than bots at Sorceress Garden.

PM me if you want to chat. My PM is always off.

My keyboard is on fire. Want some?

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Now, isn't EP recruiting...?

Yes, but unfortunately it's easier to criticize than to try and do it yourself.

 

Legitimate criticism is drawn from a knowledge of how to properly apply a process, and having gained this knowledge from having attempted the process yourself one too many times. This form of apologetics utilizes such a poor form of reasoning; it assumes the critic has no experience in writing when in fact the opposite is true. It also implies that each attempt at writing is as valid as the next. This is false. As Not_Trolling has correctly pointed out, the author makes unjustified claims and provides insufficient evidence to support them. The article was written by an amateur who seems to have no idea what he's talking about. Critique of a piece should not be seen as shameful and degrading, but as a way for the author to improve how he writes so he can properly form a ground on which to situate his equally valid opinion. I see no reason why the author in question shouldn't take his criticism seriously; he supported points using logical fallacies when forwarding his 'evidence' which betray any value the points themselves may carry. In summation, the oft-cited maxim is false in this case: It's easier to give a legitimate criticism when you have done the same yourself.

RIP RU_Insane. August 3rd, 2005 - November 11th, 2012.
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I'm sorry, but how are you people finding/reading these articles?

 

There was no frontpage announcement on the Tip.It helpsite, nor can they be found in the Tip.It Times archive.

 

:unsure:

 

Edit: Nor does Racheya's link work in her first post (for me, anyway.)

 

Really? It works fine for me. :P

RIP RU_Insane. August 3rd, 2005 - November 11th, 2012.
RU_Insane.png

 

My Stats on Old School RuneScape: 

RU_Insane.png
O4zgH.png
Reform Customer Support
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Really? It works fine for me. :P

Well, I know that Tip.It just changed servers, and a lot of people were experiencing some issues with things like the Item DB, Bestiary, etc...

 

Perhaps this is just part of that.

 

Although, I have fixed it to where I can access the Item, Bestiary, Quest DBs, etc... hm...

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Interesting articles this week, my $0.02.

 

1. The first article mentioned that by increasing the exp max, people would stop trying to grind these skill to the max. I believe this would actually increase competition. At current, once you have reached 200m exp, your location in the high scores is set. There is no way to advance higher or drop lower. By increasing the limit to basically infinity, this would provoke competition to raise in ranks. Ranks would no longer be locked down by order in which 200m exp was achieved, but whoever could grind more. The simple act of getting 200m exp shows true dedication and ability to grind for extended amounts of time. It should be no surprise that these people will try their hardest to rise in ranks. This would even prompt others not at 200m exp to try to raise in ranks. For the more common 200m exp skills, there is little glory in getting all 200m exp and being rank 250+. This will promote competition for these prestigious spots, not stop people from trying to reach an unobtainable amount of exp.

 

While I agree it will open up competition for the top spot in each skill, it is very easy to become discouraged in training when the gap seems insurmountable.

 

Take for instance, Fist of Guthix. The #1 ranked player has about 444k rating, the #5 ranked player has about 334k rating. In order for the #5 ranked player to compete for #1's spot, they'd have to gain 1/3 of their rating instantaneously before there would even be a competition. For a player starting out now, gaining 444k rating on the top spot is impossible, no reason to even try.

One reason the #5 player might still be playing FoG right now is because they enjoy it, they need/want rewards, or they have a goal to reach a milestone rating (Like, 500k or 1M). I sincerely doubt its to be #1 in FoG.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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Legitimate criticism is drawn from a knowledge of how to properly apply a process, and having gained this knowledge from having attempted the process yourself one too many times. This form of apologetics utilizes such a poor form of reasoning; it assumes the critic has no experience in writing when in fact the opposite is true. It also implies that each attempt at writing is as valid as the next. This is false. As Not_Trolling has correctly pointed out, the author makes unjustified claims and provides insufficient evidence to support them. The article was written by an amateur who seems to have no idea what he's talking about. Critique of a piece should not be seen as shameful and degrading, but as a way for the author to improve how he writes so he can properly form a ground on which to situate his equally valid opinion. I see no reason why the author in question shouldn't take his criticism seriously; he supported points using logical fallacies when forwarding his 'evidence' which betray any value the points themselves may carry. In summation, the oft-cited maxim is false in this case: It's easier to give a legitimate criticism when you have done the same yourself.

I completely agree with you and I (along with the rest of the EP, I hope) always welcome constructive criticism. Our editing and articles shouldn't be seen as infallible. That being said, keep in mind this was a guest article not written by a member of the EP. Guest articles are submitted "as-is" and only a certain amount of editing can occur. There is no interactive way to provide feedback to the author on short notice whereas EP members have a forum which allows for immediate feedback from the editor. I do agree that the author's argument was a bit weak, but crucifying a guest article, in my opinion, does nothing more than scare off potential contributors. And that is certainly something we do not want to encourage.

 

Thanks for a well thought-out post ;-)

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"He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder."

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Legitimate criticism is drawn from a knowledge of how to properly apply a process, and having gained this knowledge from having attempted the process yourself one too many times. This form of apologetics utilizes such a poor form of reasoning; it assumes the critic has no experience in writing when in fact the opposite is true. It also implies that each attempt at writing is as valid as the next. This is false. As Not_Trolling has correctly pointed out, the author makes unjustified claims and provides insufficient evidence to support them. The article was written by an amateur who seems to have no idea what he's talking about. Critique of a piece should not be seen as shameful and degrading, but as a way for the author to improve how he writes so he can properly form a ground on which to situate his equally valid opinion. I see no reason why the author in question shouldn't take his criticism seriously; he supported points using logical fallacies when forwarding his 'evidence' which betray any value the points themselves may carry. In summation, the oft-cited maxim is false in this case: It's easier to give a legitimate criticism when you have done the same yourself.

I completely agree with you and I (along with the rest of the EP, I hope) always welcome constructive criticism. Our editing and articles shouldn't be seen as infallible. That being said, keep in mind this was a guest article not written by a member of the EP. Guest articles are submitted "as-is" and only a certain amount of editing can occur. There is no interactive way to provide feedback to the author on short notice whereas EP members have a forum which allows for immediate feedback from the editor. I do agree that the author's argument was a bit weak, but crucifying a guest article, in my opinion, does nothing more than scare off potential contributors. And that is certainly something we do not want to encourage.

 

Thanks for a well thought-out post ;-)

 

You're welcome. :P

RIP RU_Insane. August 3rd, 2005 - November 11th, 2012.
RU_Insane.png

 

My Stats on Old School RuneScape: 

RU_Insane.png
O4zgH.png
Reform Customer Support
Check Out My Threads UNRoA.gif
 

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Legitimate criticism is drawn from a knowledge of how to properly apply a process, and having gained this knowledge from having attempted the process yourself one too many times. This form of apologetics utilizes such a poor form of reasoning; it assumes the critic has no experience in writing when in fact the opposite is true. It also implies that each attempt at writing is as valid as the next. This is false. As Not_Trolling has correctly pointed out, the author makes unjustified claims and provides insufficient evidence to support them. The article was written by an amateur who seems to have no idea what he's talking about. Critique of a piece should not be seen as shameful and degrading, but as a way for the author to improve how he writes so he can properly form a ground on which to situate his equally valid opinion. I see no reason why the author in question shouldn't take his criticism seriously; he supported points using logical fallacies when forwarding his 'evidence' which betray any value the points themselves may carry. In summation, the oft-cited maxim is false in this case: It's easier to give a legitimate criticism when you have done the same yourself.

I completely agree with you and I (along with the rest of the EP, I hope) always welcome constructive criticism. Our editing and articles shouldn't be seen as infallible. That being said, keep in mind this was a guest article not written by a member of the EP. Guest articles are submitted "as-is" and only a certain amount of editing can occur. There is no interactive way to provide feedback to the author on short notice whereas EP members have a forum which allows for immediate feedback from the editor. I do agree that the author's argument was a bit weak, but crucifying a guest article, in my opinion, does nothing more than scare off potential contributors. And that is certainly something we do not want to encourage.

 

Thanks for a well thought-out post ;-)

Couldn't have said it better.

[hide]

unbinding green's kidneys for ltk's heart

do you farm guam like me sir ltk

[/hide]

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I'd just like to mention that my desire for 99's does not come from the fact that I would achieve a skillcape, but because of the 99 itself. Sure, I'd still get the cape and enjoy it, but if I'm training runecrafting, I'll still wear a spottier cape over it.

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Doesn't Inferno Adze require 92 firemaking?

 

Yup.

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If you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.
^^^At least I'm not the only crazy one

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Guest jrhairychest

Legitimate criticism is drawn from a knowledge of how to properly apply a process, and having gained this knowledge from having attempted the process yourself one too many times. This form of apologetics utilizes such a poor form of reasoning; it assumes the critic has no experience in writing when in fact the opposite is true. It also implies that each attempt at writing is as valid as the next. This is false. As Not_Trolling has correctly pointed out, the author makes unjustified claims and provides insufficient evidence to support them. The article was written by an amateur who seems to have no idea what he's talking about. Critique of a piece should not be seen as shameful and degrading, but as a way for the author to improve how he writes so he can properly form a ground on which to situate his equally valid opinion. I see no reason why the author in question shouldn't take his criticism seriously; he supported points using logical fallacies when forwarding his 'evidence' which betray any value the points themselves may carry. In summation, the oft-cited maxim is false in this case: It's easier to give a legitimate criticism when you have done the same yourself.

I completely agree with you and I (along with the rest of the EP, I hope) always welcome constructive criticism. Our editing and articles shouldn't be seen as infallible. That being said, keep in mind this was a guest article not written by a member of the EP. Guest articles are submitted "as-is" and only a certain amount of editing can occur. There is no interactive way to provide feedback to the author on short notice whereas EP members have a forum which allows for immediate feedback from the editor. I do agree that the author's argument was a bit weak, but crucifying a guest article, in my opinion, does nothing more than scare off potential contributors. And that is certainly something we do not want to encourage.

 

Thanks for a well thought-out post ;-)

 

Most wouldn't have a problem with articles overall, even those that are more opinion than fact based as it at least provides reasonable discussion. However, I draw the line at the 'long' article. It doesn't really have anything interesting to discuss and should be kept to the technical sections of the site. I also get the feeling this article was wrote for the author to broadcast "hey look what I know, aren't I technical?".

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People getting 99 for the skillcape is a brutal overgeneralisation. I don't even bother buying most capes. Of the "level 99" ones I only bought RC, farm and construction. Not counting magic and fletching which I got the day skillcapes came out, because it was new content. That's right, didn't need skillcape motivation there either. You make it sound like people only get 99 to wear the respective skillcape. What about competition with friends or the ability to do all the fun stuff to the full extent? (I got 99 mage back in the day because I wanted to be awesome at maging in castle wars)

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Most wouldn't have a problem with articles overall, even those that are more opinion than fact based as it at least provides reasonable discussion. However, I draw the line at the 'long' article. It doesn't really have anything interesting to discuss and should be kept to the technical sections of the site. I also get the feeling this article was wrote for the author to broadcast "hey look what I know, aren't I technical?".

I'm glad to see you made it past the introduction. :rolleyes:

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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