sees_all1

I don't mind it... it is what pays for my game. The only thing I don't like is how it always somehow manages to update at just the moment I make a typing mistake, and takes away keyboard focus....

I know this all too well. You should look at and support my idea :P.

I think that the combination of push/shove/flak blast, disport/disport opponent, cement/bond, blackout and debase should be more than enough to keep PJing to a minimum. Most of these spells allow you to cast it on people other than the one you're fighting. I don't know how poison works either... but isn't there also a disease thing? Anyhow, I don't see magical forces as things that can poison opponents, I think it has to be contact (a poisoned arrow, or dagger). I've read of other games having something similar to this, and all it took was for one boss to cast it to wipe out an entire world (I think it was on WoW.... but I don't play WoW so I couldn't tell you). So, if two maxed players are going at it, and another casts overwhelm on another, it will hit a minimum of 18, and a maximum of 36? Something about hitting at least 18s, and averaging 27 is a bit over-powered, even for P2P.

At the expense of a little bit of sleep, I've modified the spellbook to reflect recent discussions. I still have yet to create the new icons for the spellbook, or update the images that were originally used. Let me know if there's anything else... but from this point on I won't be so keen on modifying it. Oh, and I added in the teleport to keldagrim, tell me if I should modify the levels / stuff used in the teleport.

Yeah, probably. But I see a little discussion value in it, and I think she'd have a better chance (albeit a marginal one) of seeing this here than in a PM... If a mod sees fit to lock this, go for it.

This rant is directed at a GOP friend. As upset as I am about her retiring from Runescape, I can understand it. I can understand why people quit, leaving communities behind to move on to bigger and better things. The thing I can't understand is why she'd close her chat. There was a great community there - great discussions, and tremendous value in it. I'm not the best of GOP players, but in that clan, I was surrounded by people who single-handedly could get 35 orbs into the altar by themselves, and thus allow the team to get near 40, even 50 orbs. All the best GOPers were in that clan, and it made it easy to know which team to join - even just out of respect. You see a purple dot in yellow, and you're in green... someone is going to break before the portal opens, to decrease competition. Now, there is another clan that almost took the place... but not quite. There aren't as many of the old people in it, and somehow the atmosphere is different. I guess what this means is I'll have to remember everyone who was in that clan... add them... and watch for green dots instead of purple ones. P S - I'll miss you. :cry: sees.

Do you mean like Sharpen Axe, Architect, Stun Fish, and Master Chef? I wouldn't say these affect the stats of your skill, it doesn't raise your woodcutting level by 10, it makes you cut faster with a regular axe. So, lets say you have a WC level of 39. If you casted Sharpen Axe, your WC level would still be 39, and not 47 - but you'd cut willows 20% faster than you normally would with your adamant axe. What do you propose I set the price to? 1M, 2M, 3M? ... 10M? Anyhow, I did change the names of the staves, I haven't updated the images yet. I modified the OP so that the most recent, text based version is first (this is what will be posted on the RSOF). I'm not able to modify the images until next week when I get back to my desktop... where the original data is stored. These staffs and robes will have at least 50 magic requirement... that's the bare minimum any of this spellbook will be useful. I intend for this equipment to remain tradeable, and if someone has a magic level of 13, they shouldn't be able to wield a mind staff. The mind staff is useful, however, for spells like Thicken Skin, Sheath, Super Sheath, Awareness, etc, where each of these spells require mind runes. -For Remote Deposit, Why are stacks of items a problem? Could you give a specific example? -Blaze, like making a fire, only works in areas where you're allowed to make fires. -Super Fuse is like Smelt - you don't need to be near a furnace -I can't call Architect "Construction" - had to think of something similar. Will update it to say "next 10 construction builds" -These limits are a good idea... not sure why no one has brought it up before now. I will modify the OP to reflect this. -I'll change Remote Bless to "only allowed to be cast once on a current grave marker" - but I'll keep the requirements How about, Super Restore takes away the effects of these two spells, both positive and negative? When I'm not so tired, I'll update it as discussed. Thanks for the critiques, -sees

Remote Deposite . 55 ..... 1 L, 10 A ....... F . Deposit coins, bones, food or potions, .......................................................Up to 5 slots, cannot use while under attack. Yeah right. After cooking. After herbloring. After killing monsters when you already have enough prayer level. This spell is useful for people who don't want anymore prayer level, for people who kill monsters that drop potions, and they don't have enough space for them, for people who don't like carrying around 20k coins after killing monsters for a long period of time, for F2Pers who have a cruddy time catching lobsters and wanting to bank them. With this spell, you CAN'T BANK VALUABLE DROPS. If you get a hilt dropped, you can't use remote deposit on it. If you get an extra rune scimitar, you can't use remote deposit on it. If you're under attack, you can't use remote deposit. I don't see why everyone has a problem with this spell.

The idea behind the minigame requirements is that pure accounts should not be able to get this spellbook. If you have 3k rating in FoG, you're probably not a pure account, or forcing you to play FoG wouldn't hinder you on this quest. As far as GOP - getting 4k tokens isn't much of a challenge, really. Even if you 50/50... you'd be able to multitask and do something else. You only have to attract an orb once when you 50/50 - then you could browse the forums, watch videos or television, or do homework. It may be time consuming, but the time spent isn't demanding. So - add in keldagrim teleport. What should the level, runes/items need to be? A Staff of Air costs 1500 gp from the shop. Air runes on the GE cost about 13 gp each. When you cast most spells, they use between 1 and 5 airs. I don't see the problem here. So boosts max hit by either 1, 3, or 5? I like that idea. Shove - Any player - this is to stop PJers. It does not have to be multi-combat, and it could "keep going" - but you wouldn't get any other spells for damgae in. Disport Opponent - this is a combat only spell, so you can only use it in a combat minigame or a PVP world. It works without accept aid. I'll put in a 5-10 second cool down period. Flak Blast - in a single way combat area, this will hit up to 20 on the person you're currently engaged in combat with, but it will push everyone else away too. In a multiway... lets just say that everyone near you is going to be a little upset. Since Flak Blast is a level 96 spell, its chance of failure is fairly high. Looks like you might edit your post... but it also sounds like you enjoy the spellbook, but not the quest. The supporters are only supporters of the spellbook, the quest was just a mere suggestion on the requirements to get the book.

What on EARTH are you talking about? You already admitted you have very littex experience PKing in the 35- combat field. And the kill rate sure as heck isn't anywhere close to 50%. I'd estimate mine to be under 20% on my mage pure, and even less then that on my ranger. The last time I've pked with my Mage (Sqelt, level 38 or 39?) was about 2 or 3 months ago. Fortunately F2P hasn't changed since then, so I believe my opinion is still valid. Sqelt has the mage level to do earth blast... 2? levels from fire. Anyhow, hitting a 15 is about the same as hitting a 16, imho. At level 38, you'll find that there are many level 45-47 pure rangers who will gladly relieve you of a fight. As long as there isn't another person willing to jump in, I'd estimate my kill rate to be around 40-50% -- about 9/10 times, the other player WON'T teleport, but they WILL run to a safe spot. In F2P, safespots are everywhere, and getting to one takes 2 minutes at most while running. Binding isn't effective, because all you get is a bind, and one hit in, and they're running again. There are also plenty of players near my level who are strength pures - they have 40 attack, no defense, and a ton of strength. They hit about 14-15, too, with a possibility of a 2h. From combat levels 20-35, I'd consider myself untouchable as a mage. Considering where I'm at now, not so. I believe after combat level 35, mage is no longer the best F2P class.

agreed.

I'm sorry you didn't appreciate my basic statistics lesson, and that you don't understand what mutually exclusive means, or why I'm so nit-picky about it. It seems that debating someone who absolutely refuses to understand a point of view other than their own is a useless waste of time; as such I'll spend my time elsewhere. To everyone else: Let it die.

Considering Jagex relaxed on half of the words you have used most of the examples are redundant, otherwise they would still be filtered out. The filter on here seemed to take care of your firetruck example which is the only one I can see thats profoundly offensive. Are you saying that players are really (a) so sensitive, and (B) so stupid to take this stuff offensively? Read Judge Dredd's post below about real life and how RS is 'acted' differently. A system could be developed for it. Of course it would take time to design, code and populate it and it would need updates. But theres no way you can say 'It cant be done!'. It would take some decent programming to do it, but it can be done. I say It can't be done because what you're asking for is artificial intelligence. I'm not about to post the F-word in any of my responses, I was the one that said f**k, not the filter. There are also SOOOO MANY VARIATIONS of those letters. Consider: "", "f", "F", "?", "/=" "|_|" , "ú", "ù", "û", "µ". "Ù", "Ü" "c", "Ç", "©", "" "k", "|<", ">|", etc. In just what I've listed here alone, there are 5*7*4*3 ways to make that particular word. Oh, and if you add another character to the end, there are 256*5*7*4*3 ways to make that word. But you could put a character in the middle of it. It doesn't matter. There are literally a googol ways to get past a chat filter or an auto report system. Right, but that doesn't stop a player from spamming, or macroing, or RWT, or any of the other 12 rules Jagex has. A player moderator's purpose is to give accurate reports, and temporarily punish the gravest of offenders. Bad example here. Atheletes train for years and it is their 'vocation' in life. Its their job and they work hard for what they do. You cannot compare a player clicking a report button to this. Its like saying RS is a skilled game when theres no effort in it at all. Purpose means you have a job to do and are useful in some way. So how come many mods don't do their jobs or don't do it effectively? Thats not being useful! Or is it they see it as a useful tool because they want the status. An athelete had better do his/her job as they won't get paid. Mods are players who don't depend on their modship to exist in life (debatable in some cases!) so they can take it/leave it or do what they want with it. By your response here, you didn't understand my point. mutually exclusive: (contradictory) unable to be both true at the same time. Purpose and Status are not mutually exclusive. Skilled and Overcompensated are not mutually exclusive. From your response - and the title of this thread, and all the debate you've had, you're saying that Purpose and Status are mutually exclusive. This is incorrect. Let me draw a diagram: The bottom part represents two events that are mutually exclusive. Example: Percentage of people who are 28 years old is the blue, and percentage of people who are 17 years old is yellow. The grey area represents all the people who are neither 17 nor 28, some other age. The grey + the blue + the yellow areas = 100% - it covers everyone. The blue and yellow areas do not intersect because one can't happen at the same time as the other - people can't be both 17 and 28 years old at the same time. The top part represents two events that aren't mutually exclusive. Example: Percentage of people who are professional athletes (yellow + green), and the percentage of people who make over 10 million dollars a year (blue + green). The two circles intersect in the green, representing the people who are professional athletes and also make more than 10 million dollars a year. Once again, the black area is the area in which people don't make more than 10 million dollars a year, and aren't professional athletes. The Yellow + Blue + Green + Black areas = 100%. Back to the point I was trying to make: There are player moderators that have a purpose, and there are player moderators that have status. There are also player moderators that have BOTH purpose AND status, and there may be player moderators that don't have either purpose OR status. There are also moderators that don't have purpose, but have status, and there are moderators that have purpose but no status. The figure that represents this the best is the one on top. I could care less if there were moderators or not. What I don't like is all the fallacies in your arguments, and the fact that you refuse to understand the other side of the argument. I've already proven why a player moderator has a purpose. As long as there is at least one tiny case in which player moderators have a purpose, you cannot make the general statement "player moderators serve no purpose". Now - if you want to argue with me the merits of player moderators, based on their purpose and status, go for it. However, if you take the position "player moderators have no purpose because all they want is status", you're rtarded. (Oh, look at that, I got past the filter.) If you do take that position again, I'll suggest to everyone to let this thread die.

GOP makes me feel GREAT! I've also got 68 RC, but I haven't trained it the regular way (I'm all F2P btw) since level 50. I've also decided I'm not leaving the RC Guild until I have 70 RC, and 1k total levels (I could get 1k total levels in 2 hours if I trained def or range, or spent money on crafting, I wanted 1k to be difficult, and special). If you find the right clan, you'll get about 30+ ess at the air altar (300 xp), 9 ess at mind (99 xp), 20+ ess at the water altar (240 xp), 10 ess at the earth altar (130 xp), 24+ ess at the fire altar (336 xp) and 20+ ess at the body altar (300 xp) That's 1.4k+ xp for having fun, relaxing, and enjoying GOP. Figure you can do 4 rounds per hour, ~5500 xp, +3k tokens, which you can spend on tablets and ess, or cash out. I'm not sure what it is on a members world, but you can save your ess with pouches to "cash out" at the nature altar, and get even more experience (~8-9k xp / hour?) It takes <40 seconds to do an air altar run. Assuming you have unlimited FoG tokens, and it takes you 3 minutes to get new gloves, 25 ess per run. 1000 ess per gloves / 25 ess per run = 40 runs per set of gloves, about 27 minutes. Double that and you get 2000 ess at 10 xp per ess, 20k xp/hour. Add in mistakes, more run energy (higher agility), better teleports, and you'd probably get near 24k xp/hr. How about hiring runners? Every 15 minutes, you can lose 60k. Every hour, you can lose 240k. Pay 2k per load, plus ess, and you'll get 25*120*5 = 15k xp / hour. Use gloves, and about double it (call it 28k xp / hour). Assuming that your RC level is high enough, you can add in an extra 30k xp / day for assist, and it'll get to about 30-33k xp / hour. If jagex gave more ways to train RC, it would be unfair to everyone that has put effort into it.

sorry I haven't been keeping up with the new ideas, I've been swamped at school :wall: :wall: Anyhow, here's what I'm looking to do: change Blaze to "Lights up to 9 logs on fire at once, gives 1/2 fire xp for all logs." Requires 2 cosmic, 10 fire change Remote Bless to require 70 prayer Add in these new teleports: Piscatoris - level 70, 2 law, 1 monkfish, Fremennik Isles - level 75, requires 1 law, yak hide, completion of "Fremennik Isles" quest Underground pass - level 80, requires 2 law, 3 earth, 1 piece of sulfur Karamja -level 85, requires 1 law, 1 banana, 1 jug of wine Sophanem -level 90, requires 2 law, 4 air, 2 buckets of sand Add in this new set of spells (I'm calling it "ripple", I think it fits better with pulse than stream does) All f2p - Air Ripple - level 52, 2 chaos, 4 air - Hits up to 3, 3x the speed of a scimitar Water Ripple - level 62, 2 chaos, 6 air, 6 water - Hits up to 4, 3x the speed of a scimitar Earth Ripple - level 72, 2 chaos, 8 air, 10 earth - hits up to 5, 3x the speed of a scimitar Fire Ripple - level 82, 2 chaos, 10 air, 14 fire - hits up to 6, 3x the speed of a scimitar What I will do (or needs to get done) -Change the names from Vogue to Sage, and from Mod to Arcanist. -Design the robe sets, and staffs -Give credit to everyone who's ideas I've just incorporated Anything else I'm missing? After I get all that done, and have about 30 supporters here, I think it'll be ready for RSOF (yikes!) - until then, no.

This system is flawed. All it takes is 10-11 people that want the chat to themselves to keep it. Coupled with the fact that when people are kicked from chats they can't re-enter for a certain time, we'd have few people dominating the chats, and I wouldn't put it past the general Runescape public to do such a thing. Furthermore the report for offensive language may get an innocent in trouble, the temp. ban from the chat is enough. Maybe it's better use the traditional 51% system There's just one more thing I don't get, how would the vote to kick system work? Would there be a window? Or would it be located somewhere in the chat window? If voting to boot someone was as serious as reporting abuse, and sending in false boots was the same as sending in false reports, I wouldn't see this as a problem. I understand your concern, and agree with it in part though.

risk more, get more. add me.

Lol, that was my siggy. As far as KO ability with range, 99 range with addy arrows does wonders - its why I don't BH as much as I should (Grrr tanks). KO ability is generally lacking in F2P, the chance of hitting above a 28 is 13% with 99 str (4/31), and even then you'd have hit through their defense (around a 1 in 3 chance) giving you about a 4% chance. Hitting 2 14 or above in succession with range with 99 probably is higher, say 5/18 for hitting one 15 or above, and generally when a ranger will hit high they don't splash (I think range only generates 1 random number, where melee generates 2). So that's about a 8% chance to hit a combined higher than a r2h. I agree wholeheartedly that F2P Mage, from combat level 50 to 100 severely stinks (100 being a tank), which is why I have my suggestion. There are other parts of F2P that lack, but the one most notably is the combat triangle.

Have you ever read the book 1984 by George Orwell? It depicts a distopian society, where there is censorship everywhere, to the point were historical texts were changed to reflect recent events - where there was Big Brother - pretty much the government that was suspicious of everyone. A new language was invented - called DoubleSpeak. DoubleSpeak took current ideas and concepts and put them into single, mashed together words. Anyhow, the point of DoubleSpeak was to make treason impossible because people couldn't even think it, DoubleSpeak wouldn't allow it. To make this relevant - Quick Chat is DoubleSpeak. Quick Chat makes it impossible to cuss, but it also makes it impossible to communicate effectively. Quick Chat is the easily implemented solution to your problem, not any auto-reporting thing. [hide=Here's more reasons why your idea would fail]It's impossible to get the context of words through programming. Here are a few things an auto report system would fail at: Damn it, I just died because of that noob. You're a damn noob. And he said to me "God Damn that's smoking hot" God Damn you're smoking hot. You're a Fat [wagon]. I have a fat [wagon]. It was a fat sea bass. I sea your b.[wagon]. I want to split your plateskirt with my 2h sword. I'm selling a plateskirt with a 2h sword. The firetruck was neon green. The firefruck was neon green. The firef**k was neon green. Hot smoking love is called firef**k. A Q, P W, are the answers to the cryptoquip A Q P, W, makes a male organ. That's kickass, I didn't know you could do that. I'll kick your [wagon]. Looks like he's trying to kill himself. He should just kill himself, no one wants him.[/hide] Anyhow - to get back to the title of this thread, and the debate. "PMods - Purpose or Status?" I believe this is asking the same thing as "Professional Athletes: Skilled or Over-Compensated?" Purpose and Status, like Skills and Over-Compensated are not mutually exclusive. A Player moderator has purpose, and has status, like a professional athlete is skilled, and is over-compensated. A general statement I'm inclined to agree with - All player moderators have status. True - the nature of moderation in itself, with or without stars, indicates status. Here's a question though - what if there was a player moderator who never said anything, so that there was no way to tell if they were a moderator or not? Would that player, in others eyes, still have status? If there was absolutely no way to tell if a player was a moderator or not, it would be impossible to determine their status, and therefore they wouldn't have status (as far as in other player's eyes). Now - you can make the argument that there are individual player moderators that don't serve a purpose, just like I could make the argument that there are pro athletes that aren't highly skilled. Taking a macroscopic view, player moderators serve a purpose, just like pro athletes are skilled. It would be foolish and ignorant to make the generic statement, "moderators serve no purpose". If you understand what I'm saying, then I have nothing left to say. If you can't understand what I'm saying, I'm wasting my time here. If you refuse to understand what I'm saying, you've got bigger problems, and arguing with you is unlikely to change your opinion.

If I recall correctly, I was the last one to make a point, and I went unanswered. I'm not going to look back, because either way it shouldn't matter. Reread my previous post. I never said the jokes were funny. Where did I say "I think these type of jokes are funny" ??? They might be "WAY over the top" - but its to get my point across. You don't seem to understand the points I make, or even respond to them. Now, back to what you haven't addressed: -An auto report system developed by Jagex would be impossible. -Even if Jagex could develop that "auto report system" that you dreamed up, it would be horribly inaccurate and worse than it is right now. New issues that I've thought of: -You think that Player Mods are "out to get everyone". How is your auto report system different? In fact, I think its worse. Someone mining all alone, who wants to try out the A Q P W thing with no one around shouldn't be muted, just like someone who was curious about the mu thing, who went to a secluded area, where there was no one else, tried it out... etc. -Why would Jagex make an auto-report system like that if they could instead just bleep it out? Instead of preying on its own players, why not just protect them from themselves? [sarcasm]And why I'm on that point, why don't we only make it so that players can only use Quick Chat? That way, there's no way anyone could be abusive during chat, or we won't have any need for these player moderators anymore?[/sarcasm]

This wouldn't work. Do you know why there is a chat filter? Do you know what the chat filter's purpose is? Remember how buggy that chat filter is? What you're proposing is putting that chat filter back into place, except instead of making asterisks, it sends reports to jagex. The reason why an automated reporting system, exactly like the one you're proposing, would never work is because it cannot understand any context. The old chat filter would try to filter out any .com, any www, websites, etc. The people that run the gold selling sites still got around this. The old filter would censor out random individual, innocent letters for apparently no reason. The new one doesn't, but it also lets stuff through like f***less, sans the asterisks. If jagex hasn't got their chat filter right yet, how can you expect them to make an auto report thing? And racism is a very subjective thing too -- I could tell you a hundred pollack jokes or a hundred dumb blonde jokes, or a hundred dead baby jokes, or a thousand mexican/black/asian/jew or whatever jokes, and you'd be laughing so long as you weren't in any of those categories. How easy is it to replace letters in words to make it say the same thing, but the characters are much different? There's about a million times more words jagex has to bleep out with all the alt codes, and changing a g to a q to say Niqqer deserves an automute that an auto reporting system couldn't do as well as a player mod.

The only reason I'd want a cape would be to prove that I have 99 in a skill - with quick chat, you can prove it. I'm all F2P too, and the closest I have to 99 is 90 strength, but once I get 99 I wouldn't even consider getting membership just for a cape.

Just unlocked areas - so areas like that in quests would still be locked. You'd get a message saying your spell has failed.

I've tried PKing with magic in F2P. So far, I've gotten 3 kills (that's not to say I haven't tried - I've probably used on the order of 10k death runes trying to PK). But the 3 kills were only because I hybrided. What I do is I dress in combat robes, rune kite, amulet of power. I'll pick on a guy in full rune. I'll usually hit 3 out of 4 times, averaging 8. During that time, though, he'll hit me every other for 10-20 with his scimitar, usually averaging around 12 when he hits. Since they're about the same speed, we're even. Then he'll get the bright idea to take his armour off. I'll start averaging about every other hit too, so he'll have a bit of an advantage. Once I get him down to about 25 health, I'll turn on my prayer, drink a pot, switch to my 2h and hope for the best. I can hit up to 28-29? with a r2h, so if I don't KO him there, I'll switch to a scimitar for a semi-no armour (I'll still have a kite on). If at any point they put their full rune back on, I'll go back to mage. But once again this isn't pure mage versus pure melee. If at any point in time, a ranger decides to jump in, I'm dead or teleing. If another player decides to jump in when my opponent eats twice or runs away, I just wasted about 30k in deaths. These problems make F2P mage at higher levels a joke. I do agree that up until about level 35 a pure mage owns in F2P. Its just after that, they don't.