Troacctid

Benefit of the doubt.

You can get those defence levels in the time it'd take to get the torso, no? Many people get the fighter torso under the misconception that it's worth their time and not because they enjoy the minigame itself. Try going to Barbarian Assault in a theme world reserved for it; you shouldn't have much trouble finding people with a "Once I get my torso I'm outta here" attitude. It's possible they even outnumber those who play the minigame for its own sake. No, you can wear it as a trophy along with penance skirt and healer hat or whatever, to show off your BA prowess.

The error is in projecting your perception of the majority of fm'ers onto the totality of fm'ers. Rather than making a sweeping (and false) generalization on the skill itself, you should be judging on a case-by-case basis.

It costs 1 prayer point for each minute you add to the timer, which is why you need 70 prayer to bless it--60 prayer points to make it last for an hour, and 10 to keep for yourself. So the more prayer you have, the longer you can bless a grave if you have some points already spent.

Wait, WHAT? Yes, you heard me. Dragon armour is not any more useful than a firemaking cape. It's pretty widely accepted that dragon armour is just for show. I can't say I strongly disagree with you at all here. Firemaking is indeed rather useless as a skill, and faster to train than most other skills, and I don't have any respect for any skillcape, including firemaking. (Envy perhaps, in the case of summoning skillcapes, but not respect. I would base my respect on what the player says and does rather than the items they're wearing.) What you've said here is not what I am arguing against, unless you were to draw an unfair conclusion from it. You basically only repeated what I said about thieving. I'm glad we agree. Full Dragon IS a status icon and only people who are extremely rich buy it. NOBODY in runescape would work for dozens of hours and then spend their money on useless dragon armor or a red halloween mask, which is also a status icon. If they did so and wore such items, people would respect them because they would assume they have vastly more wealth than what they are even displaying because they have enough money to buy superfluous items like that, not because they grinded away for hours to waste all of their money on useless items. If you believe so, you are seriously not in touch with the game. All I'm saying is that if someone can get 99 firemaking "just for the cape," then someone else can get 18m "just for a red mask." You can look at goal threads and find people saving up to buy expensive items because they want them and can't afford them yet; it's far from unheard of. Besides, if you respect someone for owning a rare, then you are essentially respecting them for grinding away for hours to earn a useless item, no? It's no worse to assume they got the cash by grinding than it is to assume a 99 firemaker trained the skill without enjoying it just to get the skillcape. As it turns out, we really aren't in disagreement about much, but as a 99 woodcutter I can tell you that the skill really is not good money at all. I can get faster cash buying bananas at the Catherby docks and reselling them on the Grand Exchange than I can get chopping any kind of log, and that has no skill or quest requirements. Even in f2p I could earn more money cooking anchovy pizza at 58 cooking than I could get chopping yews at 99 woodcutting. So saying woodcutting is a good moneymaker is like saying crafting is a good moneymaker because you can spin flax...it really isn't. The only reason to train woodcutting past 80 (for Stealing Creation) is if you enjoy the skill; otherwise, it can never make money faster than another method you can already do. Firemaking can say the exact same thing. *shrug*

Any skill you can brag about. Though it's not the best choice for training a skill that is alost never used. How often do people brun shades? How often do people make pyre ships? How often do people even make fires besides training? Here are some skills useful all the way to 99: Attack, Defence, Hitpoints, Strength, Magic, Range, Construction, Woodcutting, Smithing, Mining, Runecrafting, Hunter, basically anything that has increased efficiency every level. With higher firemaking, you may only light fires a bit faster, but making fires is near useless. I have nothing against the "easier" skillcapes, such as fletching, cooking, and firemaking at all. It's just firemaking has no real use except a few quests, a few minigames, and the ability to burn away your money. It's really just a waste of time is all, unless you like bragging. But if you do something just so you can brag about it is a little [bleep]y. Well, doing things "just so you can brag about them" includes things like getting 200m experience in a skill, maxing total level, and so on. It's really not exclusive to firemaking at all. You may consider it a waste of time, but others don't...it's not something you can really debate at that point. Well, you seem to be basing your judgement solely on usefulness, so when you're placing firemaking on the same level as herblore, seems fair enough I suppose. (Construction, by the way, isn't really useful all the way to 99, because most of the high-leveled furniture is exactly the same as the lower-leveled furniture in everything except appearance. Smithing has a similar problem in that nothing you can smith out of rune is more effective to smith than it is to buy the finished product.) u left out mining...lowest number of 99s and its been around since the very beginning of the "world" as we know it (that world being runescape :lol: ) Mining is neither difficult nor useful to get to 99. Menaphites can be blackjacked starting at 65. That's only about 3% of the way to 99. 97% of the way you will be getting x that is just as fast or faster than firemaking. As for more variety, Plunder loses some of its novelty by the 400th game, I'd say. And it doesn't take any more clicking than firemaking. So yeah, this is wrong. The full dragon in itself implies nothing of the sort, not any more than a firemaking cape does. It only implies 60 defence and ~28m gp. That's it. That 28m takes about the same amount of time, for someone who can make 300k gp/hr, as getting 99 firemaking with maples. Dragon is not any more useful than a firemaking cape, nor does it take any more skill to obtain, nor is it any more of a "status icon" by your criteria. This is also wrong. Woodcutting is just a little slower than half the speed of firemaking if you cut teaks. But in every other criteria you listed, firemaking matches or beats woodcutting. Firemaking is more expensive, equally dangerous, more involving, and equally useful. What about a red h'ween mask? It's faster to get and less useful than firemaking, without being more dangerous or more involving. Why should a red h'ween mask be respected more than a firemaking cape? It's noobier, right? What about skills that beat firemaking in one area but lose in another? (How many skills are actually "dangerous" to train, for example? Are you planning on alching in the Mithril Dragon lair to avoid randoms?) How do you define "involving"? And I've already covered thieving, woodcutting, and full dragon.

The point of the argument in question was that the fighter torso's small +4 strength is not enough to justify the hours it takes to earn it, because the increase in training speed you get from the strength bonus requires giving up like 8 hours of training where you could have gotten x experience, but you only get y more experience per hour with the torso, so it would take z hours before you break even on the time lost...or something. For reference, the original post being referred to:

He's not all that hard if you're prepared. Bring your best weapon and armour, and some good food like sharks, monkfish, tuna potatoes, etc. Use prayer and bring a prayer potion or two. He attacks with range and melee, and can smack you across the room. Wear a ring of life and carry a one-click teleport, like a house tab, if you're worried. You shouldn't have much trouble.

I got a ranging potion (2) and a nature talisman as drops yesterday, but I didn't notice what kind of enemy it was that dropped them.

Non sequitur. It doesn't cost more money to wear a skirt in real life, and you don't get the same defence bonuses from a skirt in real life either. Also, plateskirts are worn as armour, not casual clothing. If I came to school wearing a full suit of armor, I'd get a pretty different reaction than if I came dressed in a skirt and a blouse. "Dressing like a tran" became cool in RS when Barrows gear came out and people started wearing Verac's and Guthan's, and when the God Wars Dungeon came out and people started wearing Bandos and Armadyl. All of those armour sets have skirts in them and nobody thinks twice about it.

How about a [/u] tag? :lol:

Okay, which skills do you think people can brag about? Which skills are difficult to train, slow and/or expensive to train, and useful all the way up to 99? I can think of summoning, and that's it. Maybe the quest cape, but that's not a skillcape. Why single out firemaking (and cooking) as n00bier than the others, when only one other skill actually meets your criteria for being worthwhile? And this "getting 99 just to brag about it," you don't have any basis for that at all. Case in point: Can you guess why I chose to go for 99 cooking? Go ahead, give it a guess if you like. Thieving is faster to get to 99 than firemaking. Thieving skillcapes are not considered nooby. A player who can make 300k gp/hr can earn a dragon plate armour set (l) in about the same time it would take to get 99 firemaking. Full dragon is not considered nooby. Woodcutting has no practical benefits related to training it, is completely safe, costs no money, consists of nothing but repeatedly chopping the same three or four trees, and requires barely any input from the player--far less effort than is required to train firemaking. Woodcutting skillcapes are not considered nooby. If your reasons are valid, then why is firemaking a noob 99 if these others are not also nooby? Either you're wrong, or woodcutting, thieving, and full dragon are just as n00by as firemaking. Thats highly ignorant, it is still a 99, a 99 that you have yet to achieve. Total level/combat level doesn't reflect the maturity of the person. It's not ignorant. It means even a really unexperienced guy can get it. What are you talking about maturity? The vast majority of skills take no skill to train. Click here, click there, click over there. That's all the whole game really is. Every skill can reach 99 with enough grinding, even if you're a total moron, with the possible exception of farming and maybe slayer or summoning.

You can see that in every skill. It isn't unique to firemaking at all.

I keep a list in my ignore list so I can remember all that stuff. You forgot brewing, by the way. That's mostly a daily one.

Yes, quests. They're worth doing. :P Well, for woodcutting, you could try burning the logs, or cutting a different kind of tree like eucalyptus. For fishing, there's always heavy rod, which is faster experience than monkfish and would train your agility a little too. Not sure about mining; that's not my area of expertise.

Barrows helms are pretty good too. Either Torag's/Guthan's (same stats for both of 'em) or Verac's, which has a little less range def in exchange for a prayer bonus. I'd go with the Neit helm most of the time, but then again it clashes terribly with barrows gear, so a Verac's or Guthan's helm would certainly look better. (I'm not a big fan of Torag's little tusks.)

Yeah I know, but I was at seers bank and the fairy was not there saying where it was. I was just wondering if it had been descontinued.. What I meant was that you could have just looked on the map to see if it was still there. Or the newspost, for that matter. :-#

Eh, it's only relevant to the people with 60-69 defence, o'course. I find it ridiculous that people spend extra money on d legs "for looks" and then go and wear it with stuff like fighter torso/rune plate/granite plate that clash horribly with the red d legs. If you care so much about looks, you should be using a d chain at least, right? Or people who use d legs with rune boots instead of dragon because they're too poor to spend 300k on +2 strength, or something...so why did you spend 500k on +0 strength? -.- On the bright side, at least it's hopefully moot when they hit 70 defence, if they ever bother to train that far in the first place.

The location is marked on the world map, you know. :ugeek:

Maybe not talon beast charms. :ohnoes:

Don't forget about thieving. You have more than enough money to get the food/energy pots/summoning pouches/sceptres you'd need to plunder to 99, and it's faster xp than firemaking or fletching. Also the cape looks cooler imo. :thumbup:

He has that already. The equipment you're wearing is the best available to you. To upgrade, complete Fremennik Trials for a Helm of Neitiznot, get 70 attack for a whip, and get 70 defence for barrows armour or 65 defence and some money for Bandos. You could also complete most of RFD to wear dragon or barrows gloves. Monkey Madness is not necessary because the obsidian sword should be able to match the dragon scimitar, unless you also did Haunted Mine and got a salve ammy to use with the d scimmy.

I like the keris just because it's fun to hit crazy high sometimes, and the best chance to do that is when you can add +15% strength from the black mask to the already-tripled damage. But because of the infrequent nature of the special ability, a whip will get the task done faster.

Agreed. The whole point of an editorial is to present an opinion.

Yet, none of the people who list firemaking as a so-called "n00b" 99 mention thieving, which is faster and cheaper to get to 99 than firemaking (burning maples). If the criteria are as you've stated, firemaking is definitely less n00by than thieving, and you don't see people bashing thieving capes. Even if firemaking is so bad, it's still a good 85 hours of training, not including the time it takes to get the cash. If the time-value is what counts, then for someone who can make 300k gp/hr, a firemaking cape should, in theory, be equally as n00by as a set of full dragon, as they would take about the same amount of time to acquire, and neither has practical value in gameplay aside from appearance.