Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[warri0r45]

Why would a gay person choose to be so if it means persecution at the hands of other people, especially in a seriously conservative region of the U.S.? Lets take that to the extreme why would someone in Saudi Arabia or some other Sharia Law governed region choose to be gay if they can get the death penalty if found out? It makes no sense.

 

 

 

For the same reason people engage in illegal activities in direct defiance of the law and regardless of the consequences (Even if those consequences might include death)-- Because they more or less can. It's human nature. To argue that something must not be a choice because people do it even though it's not socially acceptable is the ultimate in fallacies. I highly doubt you'd accept this argument as true when placed on less-than-acceptable practices.

 

 

 

I see your point, but I dont think homosexuality is the kind of thing people choose just "because they can." Its also human nature to be attracted to the opposite sex, you know.

 

 

 

What Im more arguing here is that they continue being homosexual even through continued persecution (and, in some cases, attempts to cure them, which often fail dismally [1]). They also continue being homosexual contrary to natural biological attractions to the opposite sex. It has none of the markers of the kind of thing people choose.

 

 

 

As for your comment that I wouldnt accept the argument if placed on a less than acceptable practice, sorry, not quite. I think pedophilia, however much I disagree with it, isnt something that a normal adult just chooses (note I'm talking about the attraction, not the act of child molestation).

 

 

 

And if being gay is a choice, then the implication is that you and I should be able to just choose to be gay. I don't know about you, but that proposition makes absolutely no sense from a personal standpoint (i.e. it's not possible for me to just "choose" to be attracted to guys) and no sense from a biological standpoint biology would dictate that we have attraction to women and absolutely not men. It would indicate that something in a homosexual is biologically malfunctional, not that they just chose to be gay.

 

 

 

Egads! What you've written above is-- Much like it is usually-- A misrepresentation of the "People aren't born gay argument". No one has said that someone up and chooses to be gay at a whim, but rather that no one is born gay. One isn't born with certain preferences. They're ingrained into a person's being over time.

 

 

 

Sorry for misrepresenting your position. Its not like you fully disclosed it, though. You should expect a bit of fleshing out of each others opinions in a debate. Given that, Ill cut you the same amount of slack in that I didnt say that people are born gay. Ive seen some studies linking homosexuality to genetics but the jury is still out for me. Its a more complex trait than just simple genetics, too (hence I think your idea of being ingrained into a persons being over time could be partly true).

 

 

 

I dont think theres any serious disagreement here.

[Satenza]

Sly_Wizard, are you going to answer my question?

[Zygimantas]

I see your point Sly, but I still disagree. Let's take a boy without a father as an example. Sometimes the lack of a masculine figure in your family causes you to become feminine and eventually even become homosexual. The boy doesn't make the choice to lose his father - he does not make the choice to be deprived of masculinity.

 

 

 

I'm 99.999% sure that's not true-- At all.

I actually think that Zierro is right. If a kid grows up with two homosexual parents it is a good chance that the kid will become homosexual as well, because they would think that people of the same sex should be together like their parents. Or they would become homosexual because thier parents forced it upon them at an early age. None the less homosexual parents = homosexual kid.

[Satenza]

I actually think that Zierro is right. If a kid grows up with two homosexual parents it is a good chance that the kid will become homosexual as well, because they would think that people of the same sex should be together like their parents. Or they would become homosexual because thier parents forced it upon them at an early age. None the less homosexual parents = homosexual kid.

 

 

 

I don't think any of that makes sense. Firstly you assume being brought up by a homosexual couple leaves the child without a masculine figure, which is what Zierro suggested is the reason as to why people are gay. Obviously that assumption is ridiculous. Then apparently the parents would then force a sexuality onto a child? Honestly I can not understand what that even means, how does this process work? The first and foremost rule of parenting is putting the child first, and parents, whether they are straight or not on the whole try to do just that. Arguing that gay parents would try and push their own sexuality onto a child not only doesn't make sense but also is quite a puzzling perspective. Although I would like to hear how you believe this "forcing" of sexuality occurs.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I actually think that Zierro is right. If a kid grows up with two homosexual parents it is a good chance that the kid will become homosexual as well, because they would think that people of the same sex should be together like their parents. Or they would become homosexual because thier parents forced it upon them at an early age. None the less homosexual parents = homosexual kid.

 

Another example of the wrong, yet increasingly popular attitude that a child's principles/orientations depends completely on their parenting.

 

 

 

My grandparents were both Methodists. My Dad is even more vehement an atheist than me. Where does your presumption fit into that scenario?

[jackattack]

Can anyone (foster care aside) give me a good reason why it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by gays? Kids need a mom and a dad. I know it doesn't always work out that way with divorce and stuff but isn't that what we should aim for?

[NorthernHero]

If there truly is nothing wrong with homosexuality, then why are people so afraid of that homosexual parents might raise a homosexual child?

 

 

 

Can anyone (foster care aside) give me a good reason why it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by gays? Kids need a mom and a dad. I know it doesn't always work out that way with divorce and stuff but isn't that what we should aim for?

 

Why does a kid need mom and dad? What if some kid has very masculine hetero mother? Should she be banned from having children because shes more masculine than most of other women?

 

Even gay people have different personalities and principles, yeah, really.

[megakiller32]

Can anyone (foster care aside) give me a good reason why it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by gays? Kids need a mom and a dad. I know it doesn't always work out that way with divorce and stuff but isn't that what we should aim for?

 

 

 

My parents were always dysfunctional, and alot of stuff happened involving the Social Services. They only divorced a year ago. Now i'm sure somewhere, there must be a gay couple who have adopted a child, who's had a happier upbringing then me. Theres the best interest for you.

 

And it seems alot of people are thinking of gays, and then thinking of them as Child molesting, ragingly flamboyant super stereotypes. Come on, i know gay people and there more normal then hetero's i know.

[assassin_696]

Can anyone (foster care aside) give me a good reason why it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by gays? Kids need a mom and a dad. I know it doesn't always work out that way with divorce and stuff but isn't that what we should aim for?

 

 

 

You need to qualify your premise that children need a traditional mother figure and a traditional father figure to be brought up, when there is a lot of (i'm sure largely anecdotal) evidence against that claim.

[Zierro]

Well, I could be wrong - I could be right. There's no conclusive proof stating anything and it looks like it's up for debate. I said that because I heard a story about it on a radio talk show.

 

 

 

I don't think you really got my point though. My point was that if homosexuality is "ingrained into a person's being" then how does that count as a choice?

[Ginger_Warrior]

Can anyone (foster care aside) give me a good reason why it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by gays? Kids need a mom and a dad. I know it doesn't always work out that way with divorce and stuff but isn't that what we should aim for?

 

Even when you consider wealth and opportunities?

 

 

 

What would be better for you - a child adopted by two gays in 'white collar' jobs, or a heterosexual couple living off benefits from the state?

 

 

 

I'm not suggesting more gays are in those jobs than heterosexuals, or heterosexuals have trouble getting into such positions, it is merely a hypothetical comparison.

 

 

 

Moreover, if you choose the latter option, why should everyone else (pro-gay rights campaigners included) pay the price for your prejudice?

[Zierro]

Moreover, if you choose the latter option, why should everyone else (pro-gay rights campaigners included) pay the price for your prejudice?

 

 

 

I wouldn't consider it as really "prejudice". Heterosexuals just have different things to offer than homosexuals as parents. If you were white, chances are you'd want to live with a white family - because you'll have more in common culturally. If you were the only white in your family, you might not find it very appealing that BET is the only channel on all the time.

 

 

 

So, the question is more or less, "Would you rather watch Sex and the City with gay parents or Boxing with straight ones?" Very stereotypical and broad, yes I know, but you're smart and I think you get the point. ;)

[limpbizkit]

Yeah, that's how it works. The scenario we're in now, with the existence of homosexuals, in no way negates the efforts of mankind to survive. I think we're reproducing quite enough, thanks. If anything homosexuals are helping reduce population overkill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

=D>

[jackattack]

Can anyone (foster care aside) give me a good reason why it is in the best interest of a child to be raised by gays? Kids need a mom and a dad. I know it doesn't always work out that way with divorce and stuff but isn't that what we should aim for?

 

Even when you consider wealth and opportunities?

 

 

 

What would be better for you - a child adopted by two gays in 'white collar' jobs, or a heterosexual couple living off benefits from the state?

 

 

 

I'm not suggesting more gays are in those jobs than heterosexuals, or heterosexuals have trouble getting into such positions, it is merely a hypothetical comparison.

 

 

 

Moreover, if you choose the latter option, why should everyone else (pro-gay rights campaigners included) pay the price for your prejudice?

 

 

 

 

 

Why would someone living off welfare adopt? I don't think they even can. All I'm saying is that gays should be able to adopt if it takes a kid out of a foster home or orphanage and the gays are relatively normal(not going out and having sex with 10+ guys in one night) but that aside it's better for a kid to be with a normal family. This isn't a civil rights issue. It's about whats in the best interest of the kids.

[Defender2516]

Homosexuality is wrong.

 

 

 

I do not care what excuses or backward logic you attempt to use as a excuse to do it. Just for the fact that you have to use backward logic shows its wrong in itself.

 

 

 

Just like the politians bend the words of the constitution to bring out the opposite, so you guys are also bending logic itself to make it seem right.

 

 

 

I do not need to explain myself why I know its wrong, only because it would be pointless to tell people who fool themselfs into thinking its right.

[Zierro]

Homosexuality is wrong.

 

 

 

I do not care what excuses or backward logic you attempt to use as a excuse to do it. Just for the fact that you have to use backward logic shows its wrong in itself.

 

 

 

Just like the politians bend the words of the constitution to bring out the opposite, so you guys are also bending logic itself to make it seem right.

 

 

 

I do not need to explain myself why I know its wrong, only because it would be pointless to tell people who fool themselfs into thinking its right.

 

 

 

"Homosexuality is not wrong.

 

 

 

I do not care what excuses or backwards logic you attempt to use as an excuse to call it wrong. Just for the fact that you have to use backward logic shows its wrong in itself.

 

 

 

I do not need to explain myself why I know its wrong, only because it would be pointless to tell people who fool themselves into think it's right."

 

 

 

You see, this is why saying, "I'm credible with this. Case closed," is not a good answer. I can easily say it too.

[Defender2516]

Homosexuality is wrong.

 

 

 

I do not care what excuses or backward logic you attempt to use as a excuse to do it. Just for the fact that you have to use backward logic shows its wrong in itself.

 

 

 

Just like the politians bend the words of the constitution to bring out the opposite, so you guys are also bending logic itself to make it seem right.

 

 

 

I do not need to explain myself why I know its wrong, only because it would be pointless to tell people who fool themselfs into thinking its right.

 

 

 

"Homosexuality is not wrong.

 

 

 

I do not care what excuses or backwards logic you attempt to use as an excuse to call it wrong. Just for the fact that you have to use backward logic shows its wrong in itself.

 

 

 

I do not need to explain myself why I know its wrong, only because it would be pointless to tell people who fool themselves into think it's right."

 

 

 

You see, this is why saying, "I'm credible with this. Case closed," is not a good answer. I can easily say it too.

 

 

 

Actually, you just made yourself look like a ignorant fool by copying me. You can believe its not wrong, but it is wrong reguardless.

 

 

 

Some things people ask for proof, but if you need "proof" to show its wrong, then you've already lost all hope to be helped.

[Zierro]

Actually, you just made yourself look like a ignorant fool by copying me. You can believe its not wrong, but it is wrong reguardless.

 

 

 

Exactly! Don't you see my point? You're just very narrow minded when it comes to this, and you're telling us that even if we show you evidence as to why it is okay, you will still disagree.

[issy2]

Homosexuality is wrong.

 

 

 

I do not care what excuses or backward logic you attempt to use as a excuse to do it. Just for the fact that you have to use backward logic shows its wrong in itself.

 

 

 

Just like the politians bend the words of the constitution to bring out the opposite, so you guys are also bending logic itself to make it seem right.

 

 

 

I do not need to explain myself why I know its wrong, only because it would be pointless to tell people who fool themselfs into thinking its right.

 

 

 

Oh for gods sake, Edited by admin ~Turtlefemm PEOPLE ARE BORN GAY. It is pretty much proven. Could it be any less unnatural?

[Defender2516]

Actually those who believe homosexuality is right are the narrow minded people. They have to push out everything that makes it wrong out of the way to say "its right".

 

 

 

Do you know by history, a society was not at its lowest level intill homosexuality was accepted by the people? After that, it collasped onto itself.

 

 

 

Hmm, nothing wrong with a dude kissing another dude? Right.. what school did you guys go too to get filled with that junk?

 

 

 

And people being born gay eliminates freewill. I have the choice right now to be straight or be gay. There is even those who claim to be Bi.

 

 

 

Saying your born without choice and you must choose the same sex as your own gender is a blind excuse to accept homosexuality.

[issy2]

Actually those who believe homosexuality is right are the narrow minded people. They have to push out everything that makes it wrong out of the way to say "its right".

 

 

 

Do you know by history, a society was not at its lowest level intill homosexuality was accepted by the people? After that, it collasped onto itself.

 

 

 

Hmm, nothing wrong with a dude kissing another dude? Right.. what school did you guys go too to get filled with that junk?

 

 

 

And people being born gay eliminates freewill. I have the choice right now to be straight or be gay. There is even those who claim to be Bi.

 

 

 

Saying your born without choice and you must choose the same sex as your own gender is a blind excuse to accept homosexuality.

 

 

 

So, you could just say to yourself - "I'm going to be attracted to men." But it wouldn't be true, unless you're already gay. Many, many people have gone through stressful periods in which they have doubted their sexuality, often refusing to accept it because of religion, family, or of being a 'social outcast'. Do you not think that if someone had the choice to be straight they'd take it?

[anonymous1234]

Actually those who believe homosexuality is right are the narrow minded people. They have to push out everything that makes it wrong out of the way to say "its right".

 

 

 

Do you know by history, a society was not at its lowest level intill homosexuality was accepted by the people? After that, it collasped onto itself.

 

 

 

Hmm, nothing wrong with a dude kissing another dude? Right.. what school did you guys go too to get filled with that junk?

 

 

 

And people being born gay eliminates freewill. I have the choice right now to be straight or be gay. There is even those who claim to be Bi.

 

 

 

Saying your born without choice and you must choose the same sex as your own gender is a blind excuse to accept homosexuality.

Wow!! I envy you, and everybody here should worship you. We have found the first person to alter the structure of his brain at will!! Astounding. =D>

 

 

 

Just cause your gay or bi doesn't mean you chose to be that way, and while I don't believe ones sexual preference is determined at birth, they still don't have a choice to change their attraction at will.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Why would someone living off welfare adopt? I don't think they even can.

 

Here's the point --> *

 

 

 

<-- Here's you

 

 

 

(If you can't understand that simple piece of art, it symbolises you missing the point... again.)

 

 

 

and the gays are relatively normal(not going out and having sex with 10+ guys in one night) but that aside it's better for a kid to be with a normal family.

 

Are you seriously telling me only gays do that? :lol:

 

 

 

For the matter, I know quite a few gay people. They've had sex (with other people, not each other, and with only one other person at a time) about two or three times each.

[jackattack]

Yes I'd think that only a gay person would have sex with more than 10 guys in one night. You might know normal gays but I live in the same city as a place called the castro. Not to nice.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Yes I'd think that only a gay person would have sex with more than 10 guys in one night. You might know normal gays but I live in the same city as a place called the castro. Not to nice.

 

I live in the same city as a place called Lava. Not too nice.

 

 

 

But shock, it's full of heterosexuals. :shock:

 

 

 

And what makes you say only a gay could do that? Is there some sort of biological response which only works with straight people that stops them having sex that many times a night?