"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[Vezon Dash]

What I want to know is what was so bad about the sex that made you stop "loving" her. I mean, did she have the wrong set of genetalia or something?

[TTanT]

The way I see it, a marriage requires the following to work long term:

 

A mutual sexual attraction.

A mutual mental attraction.

A buildup of positive shared experiences and trust during the Honeymoon phase that is formidable enough to hold the couple together even when the honeymoon phase is nothing but a memory.

 

 

If those three can be fully achieved then a marriage would be a very positive thing. You've got lust, but also just plain like the person and will enjoy doing things other than sex with them (judging that most of the time one spends with their wife/husband doesn't involve sex). Ideally the friendship* aspect of this bond will be deep enough that the person will be a person you would actively seek out to do things with even outside of a relationship. Trust (something you WILL have to maintain constantly, because once it's gone it usually doesn't come back) allows you to support each other and thus overcome obstacles and the like that may have been impossible alone.

 

Of course, many marriages fail on at least one of the three main points and that's why there're so many unhappy marriages out there. It isn't a massively common thing for two people to match well enough to enjoy living together long term, after all.

 

*Friendship probably isn't the best word to use here, due to its platonic connotations, but I think you get my point.

[muggiwhplar]

Keep in mind that the "lust" will pretty much disappear between the two over time, yet their lust for others will still remain the same. This is what causes problems unless both partners have low sex drives to begin with.

[Donnie]

What I want to know is what was so bad about the sex that made you stop "loving" her. I mean, did she have the wrong set of genetalia or something?

 

Its more of a matter of do I feel like committing at this point. I know this may sound bad, especially since you are religious but you aren't obligated to commit with someone just because you had sex.

 

With some girls I sleep with I feel no desire to continue the relationship further after I do, even if I may have been 'madly in love' beforehand

With others I definitely want to commit further and I don't feel 'trapped' in a relationship when doing so even if i felt 'meh' about her beforehand

 

Again from my own first hand experience it holds true that I really dont know how I feel about a girl until after I slept with her.

[obfuscator]

You're failing to look at the bigger picture :P Even if you find your "ideal" partner, that isn't necessarily enough. Regardless of how well you cover your bases, you're still rolling the dice with your life by choosing to get married.

 

And you aren't by choosing not to? What if you turn fifty, suddenly change your mind, and decide you want to have kids?

[muggiwhplar]

Don't need to get married to have kids. Don't even need to be monogamous. Don't need to be young to date "high quality" women.

[obfuscator]

Don't need to get married to have kids. Don't even need to be monogamous. Don't need to be young to date "high quality" women.

 

You admitted in an earlier post that your polyamorous lifestyle is not suitable for raising children.

 

You also are (still) under this constant delusion that you're going to be pulling 24 year old models as a sixty year old man. Unless you become very rich and famous your odds of that happening are low....much lower than your chance at a successful marriage, for instance.

[Giordano]

Don't worry mono guys, human jealousy and social tradition is too strong to make the poly lifestyle dominant.

[muggiwhplar]

Don't need to get married to have kids. Don't even need to be monogamous. Don't need to be young to date "high quality" women.

 

You admitted in an earlier post that your polyamorous lifestyle is not suitable for raising children.

 

IIRC, all I've said regarding children and poly is that it's something I haven't bothered to research yet since I'm not really interested; however from what little I've read, it's entirely feasible.

 

Speaking of which, my old social psychology adviser sent me this when I was discussing polyamory with her: http://www.academia....s_relationships

 

Summary:

 

"Monogamy may not always be the best policy, according to a new review paper on the topic. Researchers explored the many long-believed benefits of monogamy, including sexual health and satisfaction, children's well-being, and relational adjustment and found no evidence to date to suggest the superiority of monogamy in those areas. They did, however, see a benefit for monogamy for avoiding stigma. Overall, they found that while monogamy may be an ideal choice for many individuals, consensual non-monogamy may be a viable alternative for those who choose it."

 

You also are (still) under this constant delusion that you're going to be pulling 24 year old models as a sixty year old man. Unless you become very rich and famous your odds of that happening are low....much lower than your chance at a successful marriage, for instance.

 

I could say that you're suffering from the common misconception that it's impossible to live like I do now when I'm much older. But I know plenty of men who still maintain the same lifestyle. You underestimate how many young women fantasize about older men. Ever wonder why books like Fifty Shades of Gray are so popular?

 

What makes you think I'm being delusional here? Just the fact that you've never seen it before?

 

Don't worry mono guys, human jealousy and social tradition is too strong to make the poly lifestyle dominant.

 

While polyamory might not become the "dominant lifestyle" anytime soon, I can almost guarantee that traditional monogamous marriage will be completely gone by the next century (in the Western world, at least).

[Kimberly]

You underestimate how many young women fantasize about older men.

 

No....

 

No they don't.... '-'

[homer205]

While polyamory might not become the "dominant lifestyle" anytime soon, I can almost guarantee that traditional monogamous marriage will be completely gone by the next century (in the Western world, at least).

Not quite sure how you can guarantee this, or how any of us would call you on it if you're wrong.

 

Kind of a practical question here, but when sleeping with a girl (literal sleep here, not the euphemism) how to avoid getting my arm crushed/awkwardly off to one side when she wants to cuddle?

[nine naked men]

Not quite sure how you can guarantee this, or how any of us would call you on it if you're wrong.

 

Kind of a practical question here, but when sleeping with a girl (literal sleep here, not the euphemism) how to avoid getting my arm crushed/awkwardly off to one side when she wants to cuddle?

Be the little spoon

[Ginger_Warrior]

You underestimate how many young women fantasize about older men.

 

No....

 

No they don't.... '-'

I suppose his cited examples would be Donald Trump, Silvio Berlusconi and Sir Bruce Forsyth. :rolleyes:

 

While polyamory might not become the "dominant lifestyle" anytime soon, I can almost guarantee that traditional monogamous marriage will be completely gone by the next century (in the Western world, at least).

Baring in mind how persistently gay people are fighting for the right to marry in a religious establishment, and how hard religious establishments themselves are fighting for the right to legally hold those marriages, I think you're being very presumptuous there. It is true that less people marry and apparently 50% of us in relationships are not marrying now, but the other way of reading is that is 50% are getting married, and some of the reasons those people are in wedlock are very personal and therefore not so susceptible to changes in the social norm.

 

To say an institution like marriage, which has been part of human civilisation since Ancient Egypt, will be completely gone in a hundred years is an incredible claim.

 

Kind of a practical question here, but when sleeping with a girl (literal sleep here, not the euphemism) how to avoid getting my arm crushed/awkwardly off to one side when she wants to cuddle?

Unless it's a little nap in the afternoon because you're both tired after a day working/studying I've never been able to find much joy sleeping in the same bed with someone else. My arm gets trapped, it gets too hot, she steals all the duvet (etc.) so I'm not much help. Although it's a lovely moment to share with someone else, I'm still very protective about sleep. :P

[Kimberly]

Not quite sure how you can guarantee this, or how any of us would call you on it if you're wrong.

 

Kind of a practical question here, but when sleeping with a girl (literal sleep here, not the euphemism) how to avoid getting my arm crushed/awkwardly off to one side when she wants to cuddle?

Be the little spoon

 

!! There's an XKCD comic for this. Let me see if I can find it.

 

 

And if you want to read the alt-text, here's the original link: http://xkcd.com/335/

 

For a real answer, I honestly dunno. >_> I do know that my boyfriend likes to sleep with his arm under pillows, which usually run under my pillow, and then I usually sleep with my arm under MY pillow...and it sort of becomes an arm fighting match until we both get comfortable.

[muggiwhplar]

You underestimate how many young women fantasize about older men.

 

No....

 

No they don't.... '-'

 

I feel like you're basically saying, "me and my friends don't like older men. Therefore, no women like older men." Makes no sense.

 

You underestimate how many young women fantasize about older men.

 

No....

 

No they don't.... '-'

I suppose his cited examples would be Donald Trump, Silvio Berlusconi and Sir Bruce Forsyth. :rolleyes:

 

While polyamory might not become the "dominant lifestyle" anytime soon, I can almost guarantee that traditional monogamous marriage will be completely gone by the next century (in the Western world, at least).

Baring in mind how persistently gay people are fighting for the right to marry in a religious establishment, and how hard religious establishments themselves are fighting for the right to legally hold those marriages, I think you're being very presumptuous there. It is true that less people marry and apparently 50% of us in relationships are not marrying now, but the other way of reading is that is 50% are getting married, and some of the reasons those people are in wedlock are very personal and therefore not so susceptible to changes in the social norm.

 

To say an institution like marriage, which has been part of human civilisation since Ancient Egypt, will be completely gone in a hundred years is an incredible claim.

 

Kind of a practical question here, but when sleeping with a girl (literal sleep here, not the euphemism) how to avoid getting my arm crushed/awkwardly off to one side when she wants to cuddle?

Unless it's a little nap in the afternoon because you're both tired after a day working/studying I've never been able to find much joy sleeping in the same bed with someone else. My arm gets trapped, it gets too hot, she steals all the duvet (etc.) so I'm not much help. Although it's a lovely moment to share with someone else, I'm still very protective about sleep. :P

 

Go take another look at how rapidly society has changed within the past 50 years. How many people are getting divorced now (or not getting married in the first place) compared to the 1950s? How many people are atheists/nonreligious now compared to the 1950s?

[Ginger_Warrior]

To follow the same logic you showed to Obsfucator earlier on, you don't need to be religious to get married. Furthermore, people not getting married is no indication they wish to participate in anything other than a monogamous lifestyle; it just means they don't want to get married. How many of those not getting married are in perfectly happy, monogamous, long-term relationships?

 

There is an issue about how civil partnerships are represented in marriage statistics as well, given they're marriages in all but name and therefore aren't recognised as such.

[muggiwhplar]

I'm not talking about "perfectly happy, monogamous, long-term relationships"; I'm talking about traditional monogamous marriage. I even said mono will probably remain the norm.

 

Re-read my original claim on the future of marriage :P

[Ginger_Warrior]

Well, how long's a piece of string? Define "traditional", accounting for the fact that even traditions change over time.

[muggiwhplar]

Isn't that irrelevant considering my point remains the same regardless of which definition you use?

[obfuscator]

 

IIRC, all I've said regarding children and poly is that it's something I haven't bothered to research yet since I'm not really interested; however from what little I've read, it's entirely feasible.

 

You've also said it wasn't an ideal situation for living in polyamorous relationships as it ties you down - something you're apparently trying to avoid by avoiding monogamy.

 

 

I could say that you're suffering from the common misconception that it's impossible to live like I do now when I'm much older. But I know plenty of men who still maintain the same lifestyle. You underestimate how many young women fantasize about older men. Ever wonder why books like Fifty Shades of Gray are so popular?

 

What makes you think I'm being delusional here? Just the fact that you've never seen it before?

 

I never said it was impossible, I said it was unlikely.

 

The logic of what people want and why people enter relationships is against your theory that you're going to be pulling hot young women as an old man.

 

The main reason young women enter into relationships with older men is for security purposes - and (like I said) unless you have become extremely rich you aren't going to be able to offer them the kind of security a young (and sexually attractive) man will be able to.

 

If they're only looking for a fling, then why would they deliberately chose someone who isn't attractive when they likely have their pick of people in their age group?

 

I'll add that 50 shades is a bad example: the woman is 22 and the man is 27. Hardly matching your situation...

[Ginger_Warrior]

Isn't that irrelevant considering my point remains the same regardless of which definition you use?

I would have thought someone who clearly has an interest in academic studies and statistics would understand the necessity of defining specific terms so other people can look at the stat you're quoting and say, "Right, I know exactly what you're referring to." Otherwise, it's not rigourous, which academic work has to be to have any meaning at all. The interpretation changes entirely depending on how you define the term.

[Kimberly]

You underestimate how many young women fantasize about older men.

 

No....

 

No they don't.... '-'

 

I feel like you're basically saying, "me and my friends don't like older men. Therefore, no women like older men." Makes no sense.

 

Younger women can find older men attractive, but most people want to be with people who are similar to them in appearance, status, and age. That's part of human nature. What makes no sense is assuming that just because I don't gush over a 45yr old means I judge an entire gender set because of that.

 

I'm also confused because your statements seem to say that your 'high quality women' are primarily in a younger age set and will continually be from that younger age set. Even in polyamory that seems...shallow.

[muggiwhplar]

You've also said it wasn't an ideal situation for living in polyamorous relationships as it ties you down - something you're apparently trying to avoid by avoiding monogamy.

 

Yes, having kids = less freedom. Living with a significant other, whether poly or mono = less freedom. But if sacrificing your freedom ultimately makes you happier, then the loss of freedom is irrelevant. Clearly having a kid and/or living with a girl right now would be a terrible idea since I have no interest in either. If I change my mind down the road, I'd still operate within the poly system because it's superior to monogamy.

 

I never said it was impossible, I said it was unlikely.

 

The logic of what people want and why people enter relationships is against your theory that you're going to be pulling hot young women as an old man.

 

The main reason young women enter into relationships with older men is for security purposes

 

Not necessarily.

 

- and (like I said) unless you have become extremely rich you aren't going to be able to offer them the kind of security a young (and sexually attractive) man will be able to.

 

Wait. Are you saying that guys our age make better providers than men twice our age? :blink:

 

If they're only looking for a fling, then why would they deliberately chose someone who isn't attractive when they likely have their pick of people in their age group?

 

When it comes to men, they generally get more attractive as they get older if they know how to keep themselves looking good. You're making the assumption that older men are unattractive, yet you're also failing to consider that physical attractiveness also isn't as crucial to men as it is to women. Older men are generally more successful and therefore more confident than younger men, and therefore more attractive.

 

I'll add that 50 shades is a bad example: the woman is 22 and the man is 27. Hardly matching your situation...

 

Lol I thought he was like 40. Whoops :P

[muggiwhplar]

Isn't that irrelevant considering my point remains the same regardless of which definition you use?

I would have thought someone who clearly has an interest in academic studies and statistics would understand the necessity of defining specific terms so other people can look at the stat you're quoting and say, "Right, I know exactly what you're referring to." Otherwise, it's not rigourous, which academic work has to be to have any meaning at all. The interpretation changes entirely depending on how you define the term.

 

Consider it a monogamous relationship bound by the law then. Doesn't change anything. :P

 

Younger women can find older men attractive, but most people want to be with people who are similar to them in appearance, status, and age. That's part of human nature. What makes no sense is assuming that just because I don't gush over a 45yr old means I judge an entire gender set because of that.

 

I'm also confused because your statements seem to say that your 'high quality women' are primarily in a younger age set and will continually be from that younger age set. Even in polyamory that seems...shallow.

 

You call it shallow. I call it biology. :P

[obfuscator]

Yes, having kids = less freedom. Living with a significant other, whether poly or mono = less freedom. But if sacrificing your freedom ultimately makes you happier, then the loss of freedom is irrelevant. Clearly having a kid and/or living with a girl right now would be a terrible idea since I have no interest in either. If I change my mind down the road, I'd still operate within the poly system because it's superior to monogamy.

 

And when it comes to having kids? Are you going to be able to find a woman who wants to have kids with you when you've made (relatively) no commitment to her?

 

 

Not necessarily.

 

Oh? Then why?

 

 

Wait. Are you saying that guys our age make better providers than men twice our age? :blink:

 

Yes, because in the long term someone your own age is going to be able to provide for you all your life. A sixty year old will provide for you for twenty years, and then die. They won't leave you enough to provide for yourself unless they are (like I said) filthy rich.

 

When it comes to men, they generally get more attractive as they get older if they know how to keep themselves looking good. You're making the assumption that older men are unattractive, yet you're also failing to consider that physical attractiveness also isn't as crucial to men as it is to women. Older men are generally more successful and therefore more confident than younger men, and therefore more attractive.

 

Older men are physically less attractive. And growing old is not an immediate confidence boost, nor is it a guarantee of success.

 

Things that make men appealing don't necessarily come with age.

 

As an aside, just a question for you. Would you still engage in a polyamorous lifestyle if you couldn't use contraception?