Would you kill something that hasn't even proved itself in the real world? All I'm going to say.

 

Absolutely. After all, its just a thing and it doesn't have life.

 

 

 

But is it the right thing to do?

 

 

 

He just voiced his opinion that it doesn't have a life. Don't you think it's a little redundant to ask him if it's the right thing to do?

This is great news. I'm glad Obama is changing this country for the better. My Mother was forced by her Catholic parents to have an unplanned child when she was 16, they made her put it up for adoption and now the person wants NOTHING to do with her. That alone is reason enough to let a person choose whether or not they want to have a child.

 

 

 

This is a great step in the right direction.

 

 

 

100% agree here as well. I think the most important thing when it comes to child rearing is that the parent WANTS you. How depressing would it be to find out that your mother didn't want you, and she was forced to have you? I'd be really depressed, I doubt suicidal, but it would hit me very hard.

 

Would you kill something that hasn't even proved itself in the real world? All I'm going to say.

 

Absolutely. After all, its just a thing and it doesn't have life.

 

 

 

One person's idea of right and wrong is nothing unless it is with others. 'Right' nowadays isn't a matter of moral principle, it's a matter of whatever the majority wants.

 

 

 

I suppose it's always been that way, but it's getting much more specific and debatable nowadays.

 

 

 

And, I understand that sex is a natural human urge, but I think that that's a lame excuse for having it so young. I mean, I often have the natural human urge to kill somebody because I hate them, but I don't. I think that self-control is just a little important.

 

Would you kill something that hasn't even proved itself in the real world? All I'm going to say.

 

Absolutely. After all, its just a thing and it doesn't have life.

 

 

 

But is it the right thing to do?

 

 

 

[He just voiced his opinion that it doesn't have a life. Don't you think it's a little redundant to ask him if it's the right thing to do?

 

 

 

I don't believe it is redundant because in this case, I was asking him if it was the right thing to abort unborn babies. I'm not pushing my opinion down his throat, I was just asking a couple questions.

It's about time this conservative crap was kicked to the curb. And if the religious want to shut down hospitals and hurt a larger population of the nation all over a change in the law, well that's not very religious is it? bloody idiots.

unborn babies.

 

 

 

Disingenuous. They're not "unborn babies", that's like the RR calling Intact dilation and extraction "partial birth abortion". It is a moral question for everyone, and it's not a choice made without second thought among 99% of the population. Trying to demonize pro-choice people by calling people "baby killers" for killing "unborn babies" is just hurting your cause, mate. Almost all pro-choice people don't want to see abortions taking place, but in a free society people should have the right in this regard when it comes to their own bodies. The way we do that is giving people access to contraceptives, and educating the masses. If I may quote warri0r:

 

 

 

The only thing that's going to seriously reduce abortion rates is good sex education. I'd much rather an "all of the above" solution than the insane approach of "abstinence-only" sex ed. You need to teach kids to use contraception regularly and effectively if you have any chance of reducing abortion rates. Kids have sex whether you teach them to or not; it's really just a natural human urge.

 

 

 

I don't see how these abortion laws advocate underage sex at all, only bad parenting and a lack of proper sex education would do that. Added, according to the actual bill, late term abortions (after about 24 weeks) will still be restricted to situations where the life or health of the woman is in danger.

 

Would you kill something that hasn't even proved itself in the real world? All I'm going to say.

 

Absolutely. After all, its just a thing and it doesn't have life.

 

 

 

But is it the right thing to do?

 

What does that have to do with it? If it's what has to be done, being the right thing to do isn't what matters.

It's about time this conservative crap was kicked to the curb. And if the religious want to shut down hospitals and hurt a larger population of the nation all over a change in the law, well that's not very religious is it? bloody idiots.

 

 

 

I agree, this is great news. I know that those who are against abortion are going to be whiny about it, but it's only for the better. And, really, if a person is irresponsible enough to get pregnant then not tell their parents about it when they are underage, well, I don't think they should really be having that baby. And I find it wrong that some people think a teen should have to have the child as a "lesson".

 

And, I understand that sex is a natural human urge, but I think that that's a lame excuse for having it so young. I mean, I often have the natural human urge to kill somebody because I hate them, but I don't. I think that self-control is just a little important.

 

 

 

It's not an excuse, it's reality.

 

 

 

Hoping that kids don't have sex just because you say they shouldn't is irrational. Expecting abortion rates to go down without any comprehensive education about contraception is even more irrational. Kids will continue to have underage sex, and I hardly think that act is equitable to killing people.

 

 

 

By the way, the idea that you need to restrain yourself from murdering people you hate is kind of disturbing.

And no, they will be 'forced' to perform abortions. While nobody is going to do it gunpoint, it'll be considered malpractice to deny them 'treatment' on grounds any less than insurance. Like, if you go to a normal doctors agency and ask for a flu shot, if they deny it because they don't feel flu shots are ethical, you can sue.

 

 

 

 

Says who?

 

 

 

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my step dad about how churches should hold the right to refuse to marry a gay couple in their own church. I believe that every church should have their own rights (not that I agree with their views, but that's another story). Don't get me wrong, though, I support gay marriage, just everyone should have equal rights (or most people).

 

 

 

Unless you show proof that they HAVE TO perform abortions in their hospitals, well, I'll... I'll... Well, I will more than happy to see the evidence you lay before me.

 

 

 

Until then. I rest my case. Even if it is hard to understand.

 

 

 

By the way, I think that if they don't want the kid, abort. I don't have any choice in the matter. But just a reminder, kids, condoms do cost less than child support.

Churches' rights should begin and end at the altar. They should never have the right to force an unsuitable mother to bear a child.

If a teenager was irresponsible enough to have unprotected sex and fall pregnant because of it, would you allow them the chance to bring a child into the world?

 

 

Exactly.

 

I think the most important thing when it comes to child rearing is that the parent WANTS you. How depressing would it be to find out that your mother didn't want you, and she was forced to have you? I'd be really depressed, I doubt suicidal, but it would hit me very hard.

 

And exactly.

 

By banning abortion, you're condemning a good deal of babies/children to harsh lives. Either that or they'll be spoiled sick. And neither is good.

 

It should always be a choice, to be honest. A choice for the "mother" and a choice for the doctor (If he/she doesn't want to perform it, find someone who will. Unless you live in a place with a ton of religious fanatics, it really shouldn't be hard...). As for parents, I don't know. Having them know but not allowing them a say would be ideal, but it simply wouldn't work.

 

Anyway, good for Obama.

Churches' rights should begin and end at the altar. They should never have the right to force an unsuitable mother to bear a child.

 

Totally agree. The involvement of the church is a disease.

Churches' rights should begin and end at the altar. They should never have the right to force an unsuitable mother to bear a child.

 

Yep. The Catholic Church isn't really so much a place for worship as a way to control people as the bishops, archbishops, and cardinals see fit.

It says a lot for the motives of Catholic hospitals if they threaten to close because they disagree with the ethics of an act. Medicine isn't and should never be tarnished by religious ideals, it's about doing what's best for your patients. I'm sure many practicing doctors in other hospitals occasionally disagree with the ethics of a treatment, but it's not up to them to decide what's morally best for the patient.

It says a lot for the motives of Catholic hospitals if they threaten to close because they disagree with the ethics of an act. Medicine isn't and should never be tarnished by religious ideals, it's about doing what's best for your patients. I'm sure many practicing doctors in other hospitals occasionally disagree with the ethics of a treatment, but it's not up to them to decide what's morally best for the patient.

 

 

 

There is a clear difference between something you consider mildly unethical and something you consider murder. If not, then I guess the penalty for shoplifting should be the same as the penalty for rape or serial murderers. I dont think anywhere in that bill it will require someone to perform an abortion if they choose not to, someone wanting an abortion isnt having an urgent medical problem so Im sure any physician could just redirect the person to another doctor. If by some chance they are forced, shouldnt they just refuse to do it and face legal problems, Im thinking this would be similiar to the case where a guy taught evolution in schools knowing he would be arrested(anyone know the name of that case?)

It says a lot for the motives of Catholic hospitals if they threaten to close because they disagree with the ethics of an act. Medicine isn't and should never be tarnished by religious ideals, it's about doing what's best for your patients. I'm sure many practicing doctors in other hospitals occasionally disagree with the ethics of a treatment, but it's not up to them to decide what's morally best for the patient.

 

 

 

Totally agree.

 

 

 

I gotta say that I do like everything Obama's been doing and saying so far.

 

 

 

 

 

edit:

In general, I like what Obama is doing here, although I have some reservations. You should be allowed to make a choice for yourself in the case of early abortions, in my opinion without informing your parents, but I highly disagree with late abortions and similar practices. I cannot see the distinction between that and murder.

 

 

 

I don't think that doctors are obliged to perform an abortion, but I reckon they should be obliged to refer to another doctor who would be willing to perform it. The Catholics should be able to shut down their hospitals whenever they want, and the government should be strong enough to withstand that. If not, restructuring is needed, because a Church should not have that kind of influence, no matter how benign.

 

 

 

Damn, if only Britain had someone as decisive as Obama.

I'm going to have to say, it's extremely selfish of the Catholic church to deny healthcare to people full well knowing that some people will die as a result just to preserve their "beliefs / ideals".

 

 

 

Abortion is a touchy subject, frankly my view on it is let the parent have the choice, obviously for rape it's inhumane to force a woman to bring a child into the world but in many circumstances where abortion is desired, the child will end up with a crappy quality of life if not aborted.

I'm going to have to say, it's extremely selfish of the Catholic church to deny healthcare to people full well knowing that some people will die as a result just to preserve their "beliefs / ideals".

 

 

 

Abortion is a touchy subject, frankly my view on it is let the parent have the choice, obviously for rape it's inhumane to force a woman to bring a child into the world but in many circumstances where abortion is desired, the child will end up with a crappy quality of life if not aborted.

 

 

 

Doesn't Ireland still have a lot of restrictions regarding abortions?

There is a clear difference between something you consider mildly unethical and something you consider murder. If not, then I guess the penalty for shoplifting should be the same as the penalty for rape or serial murderers. I dont think anywhere in that bill it will require someone to perform an abortion if they choose not to, someone wanting an abortion isnt having an urgent medical problem so Im sure any physician could just redirect the person to another doctor. If by some chance they are forced, shouldnt they just refuse to do it and face legal problems, Im thinking this would be similiar to the case where a guy taught evolution in schools knowing he would be arrested(anyone know the name of that case?)

 

 

 

You can't compare the penal system or teachers to medicine and doctors. Doctors have a duty to their patients, to do what's medically best for them. In some cases young women are in no fit state emotionally or physically to have a child. And besides, we're not just talking about doctors refusing abortions, this is about whole hospitals closing because of one act being passed (so I understand).

Is it right to bring a baby into the world not being wanted and end up being dumped in an alley or having young women dying because they try and do abortions themselves in a non-sterile environment?

I'm going to have to say, it's extremely selfish of the Catholic church to deny healthcare to people full well knowing that some people will die as a result just to preserve their "beliefs / ideals".

 

 

 

Abortion is a touchy subject, frankly my view on it is let the parent have the choice, obviously for rape it's inhumane to force a woman to bring a child into the world but in many circumstances where abortion is desired, the child will end up with a crappy quality of life if not aborted.

 

 

 

Doesn't Ireland still have a lot of restrictions regarding abortions?

 

 

 

Yes, there's still unfortunately many laws built around Catholicism, if I could make the choice I'd break all ties between the government and the Catholic church, it's done nothing good for the country being so close to the church.

 

 

 

The laws are idiotic, you must seek permission to travel to another country for an abortion as it's illegal to "conspire" to travel for the sole purpose of an abortion.

There is a clear difference between something you consider mildly unethical and something you consider murder. If not, then I guess the penalty for shoplifting should be the same as the penalty for rape or serial murderers. I dont think anywhere in that bill it will require someone to perform an abortion if they choose not to, someone wanting an abortion isnt having an urgent medical problem so Im sure any physician could just redirect the person to another doctor. If by some chance they are forced, shouldnt they just refuse to do it and face legal problems, Im thinking this would be similiar to the case where a guy taught evolution in schools knowing he would be arrested(anyone know the name of that case?)

 

 

 

You can't compare the penal system or teachers to medicine and doctors. Doctors have a duty to their patients, to do what's medically best for them. In some cases young women are in no fit state emotionally or physically to have a child. And besides, we're not just talking about doctors refusing abortions, this is about whole hospitals closing because of one act being passed (so I understand).

 

 

 

Its a valid example in the case of doctors refusing to perform procedures, that being that flu shot=/= abortion so there can be varying degrees of objection to doing something. If the church wants to close its hospitals because it refuses to perform abortions it has the right. I mean you dont want them to have power so I dont see why they should be providing medical care anyway. Private institutions can do what they want, if Obama chooses to endanger people for the sake of legalizing abortion it becomes his mess.

Is it right to bring a baby into the world not being wanted and end up being dumped in an alley or having young women dying because they try and do abortions themselves in a non-sterile environment?

 

Nope. But I find abortions are right as beating a baby to death. I recall several baby killing threads, and a good number of threats were made against the perpetrators. I feel the same for abortion.

 

 

 

It's a very fuzzy line, though. Kinda like "the greater good". I can't make a solid stance. So I generally try not to get involved.