Tip.It Times: 31 May 2009

[lordkafei]

He's whining about whining.

 

 

 

And generalizing as well.

 

 

 

:thumbup:

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

CatherbyCurmudgeon, you are now my god! :pray:

 

every update that comes i see for wat its worth, it may be of no use to me *cough*wgs*cough* but i still see how and why it was made in the first place. considering the amount of [cabbage] jagex puts up with is astounding when it comes to new updates, im suprised we have new updates at all. so as my ending coment, be happy about it or shut the [cabbage] up :-# .

 

 

 

now on to the second article, i found this one very true, my post on this thread is proof enough of that! also i have to agrea, i do think that if rs did just disapear right now that, although the damage would be large and lasting, we would still be here, something everyone here should be proud of.

[Wouter828]

 

First of all I think this is a silly quote, you're playing a game which you pay for, you expect it to be entertaining. If I don't like the way they're developing the game I like to play then why can't I say that? If I don't like a quest or a new item, then why can't I post about it on the forums? Doesn't a company need feedback from its costumers, especially if the product is as interactive as RuneScape? Surely the connection must exist and be used if this game is to develop and flourish.

 

Why should I care about John Doe next door liking the little cactus he can now place next to his pet basket in his POH if I don't even train construction? It makes no sense telling me to shut up and take every update. 'I quite dislike cheesechips myself, whish they had picked a different kind for this party..' 'Shut up, think about how that guy over there likes the chips.' 'O right, sorry, silly me.'

 

 

 

Your frustration seem to lie in HOW they state their opinion instead of the fact THAT they state their opinion. Yes, the general level of grammar and argumentation could be quite a bit higher and still be average level. If this is the case then I agree but you should've written a different article, if not then I think you wrote a stupid article whining about whiners.

 

 

 

 

 

I do pay for the game, so do you, I pay 5 dollars a month, Like millions of others do, for math purposes lets assume a meager 1 million people pay. That means your view is .000001 percent of the games. Sure others may share it, but you alone are a small fly as I am and many players act as jagex is out to get them. Personal desires are always nice, but many people forget the scope of updates. To be blunt and pretty much on my point, pardon me being offensive, but I wrote the article with posts like yours in my mind. Players often think they are better than the community as a collective, and often use, but I pay $5 a month! I'm a customer, yeah you and millions of others and the people who typically enjoy the updates, dont rush to post, but the whiners do, making people form a pre-judged view of the update before they ever try it. Have I ever agreed with every update? Nope, and I'm sure some update this year will piss me off beyond belief, however i'm not naive and foolish to think my $5 gives me any sort of entitlement to make my desires any more valuable as a customer because I subscribe to the the game. A top 10 mmo with the lowest cost of any of the top 10. I feel I get my $5 out of the game as is, updates or not. .

 

 

 

Answer me this and be honest.

 

 

 

If you pay $5 a month for 3 months, as a customer is your money worth the same or less as the 2-5 year long member?

 

 

 

That 3 months of payment is worth just as much as 3 months of payment from the 2-5 year long member. Why should playing time increase the worth of you money? Really makes no sense to me. Jagex should value their opinion the same.

 

You're practically saying players shouldn't give feedback if they don't like an update or want it changed because their opinion is .000001% of the total amount of opinions of RuneScape players. Saying that sounds really stupid to me, players need to act up if they don't like something. You say every player that posts is only so much of the total amount of views and does not matter because it's only .000001%.

 

Sure, if players post 'omg I didn't like this update please change it because I don't use it.' then I agree, it is better left unsaid. But if they create a thread, post multiple arguments supporting and explaining why they feel that way other than 'I won't use it.' and people agreeing with the argument then I really am glad that person started the subject, unlike you as it seems. You seems as if you'd rather want that person to suck it up and play the game, or maybe quit since he stopped enjoying the game.

 

 

 

In closing, I wish people didn't have to whine about every update. While it may have disappointed you, Im sure the update pleased someone other than yourself.

 

Seriously, learn to relativise, you yourself said there are easily 1 million players, the highest amount of posts on 1 topic in the rants forums is around 3.2k, that's hardly 0.32% of all the existing players according to your maths. There's bound to be someone whining and if it's only that small a percentage per update then I really don't understand why you're making such a fuss about it.

 

 

 

People have the right to voice (and hopefully also explain) their opinion. Saying someone's voice doesn't matter because it's only .000001% of the general population is stupid and a view belonging to the dark ages in my opinion. If you have a problem with the way people just voice and not explain their opinion with valid arguments other than 'I won't use it.' then write an article about that and leave the attack on freedom of speech in your pocket.

[Earth_Poet]

Ah, I love a good debate.

 

 

 

Same here. ;)

 

 

 

The problems with weapons after 70, is weapons at or below such as godswords and dclaws among whips have set a VERY high standard that anything at this point will either be obscene in terms of damage it deals against other players with 99 HP or just disappointing causing more unreset.

 

 

 

If weapons are becoming too powerful, then it would make sense to have armor to counter the attacks. Of course, this leads into the problems of defense in my opinion.

 

 

 

Also, the quality doesn't have to just move in a straight line. Take godswords for example. All of them have the same stats, but the spec is what sets them apart. AGS can be ideal for pking and boss monsters, while SGS is good for slayer tasks or waterfiend hunting, and BGS makes a good economical choice for players on a budget.

 

 

 

To be fair though, high-level players have been getting more attention lately.

 

 

 

Yeah, after the first couple of months after the new crossbows were introduced, Jagex was wondering why nobody was using them. Because players saw them as too expensive and about as effective as a magic shortbow.

Correct, and the shortbow was and still is a great cheap weapon, however even after the changes, many rangers still complained and moaned when they just got a very powerful and useful upgrade.

 

 

 

Some rangers may have complained, but what they say and what they do are two different things. Crossbows have become the new standard, but only after Jagex tweaked them a little.

 

 

 

If you have a hard time finding anybody actually playing a mini-game, or actually equipping a new, "junk" item, then what does that mean for Runescape?

For the mini-game, I believe it needs revamp, not removal like some people want because they feel its useless.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

Why should low-level players have a broader choice of equipment?

 

 

 

They outnumber us, by alot, and low levels are the future of the game.

 

 

 

Well, geez. You make it sound like we are elderly patients in a nursing home. :lol:

 

 

 

I would like to think that we are just as much the future of the game as they are. Plus, like I said before, they won't be low-levels for very long. The goal is to progress upwards, so it would seem fair that we should give feedback on what we think works and what we have problems with. Everyone is going to have their side of the argument. Jagex is neutral territory, but at least they can get an idea of what players are thinking. I pay $5 a month to play, so I should have the right to complain, but Jagex has a whooole lot more at stake to lose, so I imagine they'd like to know what's on players minds.

 

 

 

Are you saying I should be considering the needs and wants of low-level players over my own?

 

Nope, but I'd say the proportion of lower levels outnumbers the high levels so it's only fair they get a worthy share of the updates.

 

 

 

Again, they shouldn't be low levels players for very long. It took me less than six months to get all my melee stats to 70, which at the time allowed me to wear the highest level equipment in the game. Level 70, yet that equals less than 10% of the experience needed to get to 99. More low level equipment means players will only be able to hit that "ceiling" even faster. Four years since they released Barrows, and the highest level equipment today is only 75.

 

 

 

I understand not wanting to release updates that only 1% of your players can enjoy, but there are roughly 300,000 players now who have achieved level 80 in attack, strength, and/or defense. Maxed out combat players are using the same equipment as players with level 75 combat skills. Releasing higher end gear doesn't leave out lower level players. It gives them more to look forward to when they do achieve those levels. Look at what skillcapes did to the game; it motivated players to max out levels they previously thought to be pointless.

 

 

 

I see a lot of players quit, retire, leave the game, because they feel they've squeezed all the juice out that Runescape has to offer. The only thing they feel they have left is grinding away at skills for more experience. After awhile, it feels like all stick and no carrot.

[Sy_Accursed]

Nothing special in my opinion.

 

 

 

The first article was basically hi everyone whines. I wanna whine about people whining but make it seem good, while also sterotyping all players into 3 categories tht totally ignore a huge portion of players.

 

 

 

The secondly article was wow I can READ and and then I can WRITE about what I have READ without achieving anything.

 

 

 

The fiction article I didn;t read because I never do, mainly because I find them quite weak and drivel-like and I can't be assed with them in general (But I'm a literature student and writer so odds of getting high priase from me on fiction is like 1 in ten million lol)

[OlissilO]

I think you are right on the whole, although you're forgetting that most of the people who whine are the "generally" younger ones and are in a small minority of the rs community.

 

 

 

I for one, am unhappy at jagex's updates, mainly because of the lack of them... the update that came out last week would have been considered a very small update last year. So far, this year has been a bit of a dissappointment in "exciting new content," which is essentially what draws f2p players and members, and keeps members playing.

 

 

 

The problem is not that people whine about certain aspects such as, as you say.. weapons etc.. but rather Jagex should be doing their best to outdo themselves each week which i don't think they are doing... They've said that they will do so many things over the last year which they haven't done.. e.g. Mobilising armies (which i was looking forward to), along with everything that was promised in the interview with the new head of Jagex, the name escapes me >.>..

 

 

 

I understand you're frustration at the ranting players of runescape, and yes.. Jagex can't cater for everyone.. but in my opinion they need some new brilliant content to keep us contented, gwd kept me contented for 6 months or so.. something like that will mean they can carry on "fixing things" until next year

[Shady Character]

 

 

 

Why should low-level players have a broader choice of equipment?

 

 

 

They outnumber us, by alot, and low levels are the future of the game.

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

ok so they outnumber us by alot but really how long are they going to stay low leveld? even by playing casually it could only take a f2per a couple months to get 70s in combat, and once they have that generally many people start paying for the game which endows upon them countless new items.

 

another point is low lvled players do have a wide variety of choice for equipment. they have all the metal sets up to rune with a very wide range of weapons choice (however many ppl seem to stick with thier precious rune scimmys). part of giving so many new items to higher levels is to entice lower levels to train harder and also to buy membership.

 

 

 

also what is there really for higher level players to use? when u really look at it, mid level members can upgrade to dragon which in itself has a nice variety, however after that there is the whip and god swords. lower levels can use a new item set every 10 levels they gain. but this stops as soon as you hit 70 (for f2pers 40). obtaining level 70 is also fairly easy for any skill, being only 10% of the expierence required for 99. so wouldnt it make sense to add a few items that require higher levels to make this trianing go by a bit faster to beat the senseless grinding?

 

 

 

well that was just my 2 cents.

[Suiku]

I feel quoted on this article :/

 

 

 

I few days ago I said how Trouble brewing and Great Orb Project were a "failure", I even used that word..

 

 

 

EDIT: I read the rest and no, I don't speak for all the players, why you think I would do that? I said -in my opinion-, that means some people may love it but in my mind they aren't that well developed as castle wars or blast furnace.

 

 

 

But again that's just my opinion, and again I haven't played Blast Furnace yet like I haven't played Trouble Brewing. So just don't take my word on it, just giving my thoughts.

[KingDodongo]

Yes, you're right, but hey, that's not going to stop thousands of people from crying at every update. Personally, I love this game.

[Ravenkana]

Yes, you're right, but hey, that's not going to stop thousands of people from crying at every update. Personally, I love this game.

Personally, so do many of the complainers. They "cry" about "every" update because they care. And it's not the same players each time; different updates affect different people so for almost every kind of update a different group of people will complete.

[zuomimiez]

Magic training may be alching only but then again melee training can be leaving your character to AFK with guthans and ring of life to bandits just to come back 3 hours later to see you are still gaining xp.

 

 

 

About all that "old content needs updates" including Rum brewing and prayer AND firemaking, I've triend my part of suggesting all those as updates at RSOF but as everyone knows most users are [developmentally delayed]ed there. No-one even pays attention unless you name your thread "nature rune staff" or "horses".

 

 

 

As for magic I think they should somehow balance it to fill the combat triengle but not with more damage. Magic needs more melee defence! Torag gets [bleep]ing 300 ranged and melee defence and archers block 80% of spells... You should never forget combat triangle! 300 melee defence for mages! (along with 0 ranged def, eh? : )

 

 

 

GOP... Everyone just plays is for the rewards. That game is no fun. I couldn't care less if it was removed. Along with Soul wars which is 99% about rewards, 1% about having fun playing it. That one I'd actually be happy to get rid of.

 

 

 

----> Everything is working out just well if you do not like pking. PVP is lame and prayer as a skill is a joke.

[Sir_Squab]

 

 

 

Why should low-level players have a broader choice of equipment?

 

 

 

They outnumber us, by alot, and low levels are the future of the game.

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

ok so they outnumber us by alot but really how long are they going to stay low leveld? even by playing casually it could only take a f2per a couple months to get 70s in combat, and once they have that generally many people start paying for the game which endows upon them countless new items.

 

another point is low lvled players do have a wide variety of choice for equipment. they have all the metal sets up to rune with a very wide range of weapons choice (however many ppl seem to stick with thier precious rune scimmys). part of giving so many new items to higher levels is to entice lower levels to train harder and also to buy membership.

 

 

 

also what is there really for higher level players to use? when u really look at it, mid level members can upgrade to dragon which in itself has a nice variety, however after that there is the whip and god swords. lower levels can use a new item set every 10 levels they gain. but this stops as soon as you hit 70 (for f2pers 40). obtaining level 70 is also fairly easy for any skill, being only 10% of the expierence required for 99. so wouldnt it make sense to add a few items that require higher levels to make this trianing go by a bit faster to beat the senseless grinding?

 

 

 

well that was just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

I don't know about you, but I'm not even sure if I was an f2p'er with a set of full rune within a year of when I started playing RS a lot. I'm 99% positive that I didn't have one within my first 6months. I spent guaranteed over a year and a half, probably 2 years, before I had the stats for barrows armour and a whip, and even longer before I could afford it. If all you do is focus on combat and slayer, yes, you will get to a high level fairly quickly, but if you add in skilling (I recently got 70+ all stats) questing (questcape ftw) diaries (have them all complete)....ANYways, that's a bit off topic, but the point is, the "casual" RS player generally doesn't get 70+ within a year...

 

 

 

For the guy who posted above me...Even if GOP IS boring, the reason it's played for rewards is because it's a lot less boring then conventional runecrafting....

 

 

 

And my understanding of Soul Wars is that it gives exp at much too high a rate. Although, considering the similarities to Castle Wars (and the amount of people who play that game, even though it doesn't really HAVE rewards in my opinion....) there is bound to be people who play that game because they enjoy it and use the points on exp as well.

 

 

 

Still probably too overpowered...

[Racheya]

 

GOP... Everyone just plays is for the rewards. That game is no fun. I couldn't care less if it was removed. Along with Soul wars which is 99% about rewards, 1% about having fun playing it. That one I'd actually be happy to get rid of.

 

 

I think they're fun. :cry:

[Shady Character]

 

 

 

Why should low-level players have a broader choice of equipment?

 

 

 

They outnumber us, by alot, and low levels are the future of the game.

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

ok so they outnumber us by alot but really how long are they going to stay low leveld? even by playing casually it could only take a f2per a couple months to get 70s in combat, and once they have that generally many people start paying for the game which endows upon them countless new items.

 

another point is low lvled players do have a wide variety of choice for equipment. they have all the metal sets up to rune with a very wide range of weapons choice (however many ppl seem to stick with thier precious rune scimmys). part of giving so many new items to higher levels is to entice lower levels to train harder and also to buy membership.

 

 

 

also what is there really for higher level players to use? when u really look at it, mid level members can upgrade to dragon which in itself has a nice variety, however after that there is the whip and god swords. lower levels can use a new item set every 10 levels they gain. but this stops as soon as you hit 70 (for f2pers 40). obtaining level 70 is also fairly easy for any skill, being only 10% of the expierence required for 99. so wouldnt it make sense to add a few items that require higher levels to make this trianing go by a bit faster to beat the senseless grinding?

 

 

 

well that was just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

I don't know about you, but I'm not even sure if I was an f2p'er with a set of full rune within a year of when I started playing RS a lot. I'm 99% positive that I didn't have one within my first 6months. I spent guaranteed over a year and a half, probably 2 years, before I had the stats for barrows armour and a whip, and even longer before I could afford it. If all you do is focus on combat and slayer, yes, you will get to a high level fairly quickly, but if you add in skilling (I recently got 70+ all stats) questing (questcape ftw) diaries (have them all complete)....ANYways, that's a bit off topic, but the point is, the "casual" RS player generally doesn't get 70+ within a year...

 

 

 

For the guy who posted above me...Even if GOP IS boring, the reason it's played for rewards is because it's a lot less boring then conventional runecrafting....

 

 

 

And my understanding of Soul Wars is that it gives exp at much too high a rate. Although, considering the similarities to Castle Wars (and the amount of people who play that game, even though it doesn't really HAVE rewards in my opinion....) there is bound to be people who play that game because they enjoy it and use the points on exp as well.

 

 

 

Still probably too overpowered...

 

 

 

ok i do agree that it can take longer than a few months to get 70s in combat when u add in time to skill and quest and other random stuff, (although once u do get the hang of the game and figure out where to train it goes by much faster). but my general point is that there is still alot of variety for those lower leveld players to choose from and that variety really only runs out once u hit 70+ in most skills

[BloodShard]

i really did not think much of this weeks articles. i am dissapointed with this weeks articles

[FooK-A-Ji]

Seems to me like the articles are getting more and more personal for each edition.

 

And I'm not interested in reading a singular persons negative stance on things in a newspaper designed for the masses.

 

That is was tip.it times is right? Because if its merely an amplifier for angry voices to be heard, I don't think I'm interested in the future.

 

Also some of the writers need to lose the "better/wiser-than-thou" attitude.

 

 

 

Just my 2 cents on the current state, you guys do a brilliant job also which I surely couldn't do better myself :) The first article was just really agitating and sounded more like an angry reader in the middle pages of a newspaper.

 

 

 

 

 

Pulling statistics out of nowhere and attaching tip.its name to it wasn't really a smart move either. And not once was it stated that it was the writers opinion so all we can assume is that this is tip.it's opinion of the general population, which I'm sure isn't true.

 

Hope this isn't coming off as hostile because I love the times and just want the best for it. Its really with a heavy heart that I criticize today :(

[gummibear95]

first artical,

 

totaly agree

 

 

 

when an update comes out, people complain, because it is over powered, the quest is too hard, the minigame is too unbalanced, its for lower levels,

 

 

 

then, when jagex nerfs the quest/item/minigame,

 

people rant about that too

 

 

 

this is what i just want to say to all these ranters,

 

 

 

Take a pill, grow a couple, and stop the constant complainin,

 

it seemes like the fan base always finds somethin to complain about

 

 

 

 

 

**Stop global Whining**

[03warrior]

I liked the first two and I don't read the fictional articles ever. In the first article I agree people should stop complaining so much, although I'm kinda complaining right now, and I also agree that low level quests are the best.

[Hawks]

This is in answer to Nom's question a few posts back:

 

I assume your current fictional pieces are about 1000 words. I think if you could do 1500, or even just one 'section' more per Times more people would enjoy it.

 

 

 

And I pose my question again: Would you read articles featuring forums? If it was featuring exactly what's so great and amazing about the forum?

 

 

 

Also, I tried to gear my article more towards a 'stop complaing, you have all these cool things you can do, so help out and learn something' stance and apparently people just thought I was writing 'oh look here are all the forums'... :| I guess I'll try again..

[Danqazmlp]

I liked this weeks articles, i agree with the first one alot, i'm one of the people that usually ends up telling people to give an update a go before bashing it, the world seems full of people who complain for the sake of complaining.

[Dirkmetal]

I agreed with everything both articles said, except for magic not being underpowered.

 

 

 

Magic in player versus monster is horrific.

 

I don't want to use range or melee, but I'm forced to.

 

It's why I'm going for 99 range, :(.

[Nom]

The fiction article I didn;t read because I never do, mainly because I find them quite weak and drivel-like and I can't be assed with them in general (But I'm a literature student and writer so odds of getting high priase from me on fiction is like 1 in ten million lol)

 

 

 

Hm. I wonder how you manage to find them "weak and drivel-like" if you never read them.

 

 

 

One of our authors (Zonorhc) is an English major. I plan on majoring in English/literature/related myself. Believe me when I say that we would not publish anything that was mere idle fan fiction. That is not to say you should expect something life-changing, but drivel? I take offense at that. At least read it first. I would happily engage in a discussion over an honest opinion formed from reading the material.

 

 

 

To hawkxs, this week's is 1166 words. So your average of 1000 is about right. We can definitely try to extend the length a bit. No guarantees though.

[Shinyblade99]

First article:

 

1. It's the same rant that has been done a million times. I think there's even been a Times article on complaining about updates already.

 

2. What exactly about Trouble Brewing needs to be fixed, and how is it good if its broken?

 

3. People complain about prayer all the time and the "Add more to Firemaking" suggestions have been going on for years.

 

4. Because of fan sites with detailed quest guides and stuff, there aren't really any quests that aren't noob quests. "Hard" quests are as hard as you make em. There are no surprises, hard boss battles that you don't know the weakness for, or puzzles that can't be solved by reading the answer or a detailed set of instructions to get it. Basically what I'm saying is that no one can complain about the quest cape being hard. The only thing different than a skill cape is that it involves talking and walking. You still have to grind, just in more than one skill instead of one. And to people who say the low requirements make quests too easy: Jagex can't release hard quests every time, otherwise there are no quests to require for others. Most easy quests set up other quests or are at least required for one, so basically even the easy quests are making the quest cape more elusive.

 

 

 

Now if you're still reading, Second article:

 

1. This is basically just a big forum ad. I could read the forum descriptions and get just as much out of it.

 

2. The majority of users aren't on the forums, and the majority of ones that are are still playing Runescape and talking about it. The site would most likely not stay up if Jagex fell off the face of the Earth, because of the major amount of lost advertising fees and a huge chunk of forum users wouldn't find a reason to come back, since nearly every forum has forum games and other stuff like that.

 

3. I don't get how this is a response to the people who think the site is going downhill. You don't really state anything that would prove otherwise, other than the fact that the forums are active, and activity isn't what most people mean when they say the site is going downhill.

 

 

 

And sorry if I'm a critic, I just found the articles kinda boring and cliche. And what happened to the editor? Every article is a user submitted one now...

[squashboy47]

I liked the first one. It frustrates me when people complain so much.

 

Now I have a complaint of my own!

 

I think that too many quests are being made. I think they should pump out updates for current skillz. That's just my opinion though. I'm just one squash in the patch.

 

 

 

Hehe squash -.-

[Eluveitie]

1. yeah I agree. People in rs are just power fiends they want more,more,higher,higher. I feel for Jagex theyre in a tight spot, they dont want to give a too strong of a weapon but not a too weak weapon either. I would say, try to move the concern to something else, like in the forum something with firemaking or w/e.

 

 

 

2. Im gonna check out all those forums might be some fun and good diversion while im at aviansies. Lolcats.com just isnt cutting it out for me -.-