200M in all Skills

[Quyneax]

Frequency has nothing to do with how good a task is - that only determines whether you should skip or block. Likewise length isn't important provided you don't have to much overhead (travelling).

 

Also, I'm assuming you're trying to take the max xp rate, charm rate and effigy rate and judging a task by those rates. You should also add profit. Secondly, simply adding them together doesn't result in any meaningful number. Finally, black demons are actually faster summoning xp & black dragons are faster effigies.

 

What you should calculate is the total amount of time a single monster (on task) gives you - in slayer xp, summoning xp, effigies (90 mins each, approx), money (at a certain income) etc.

Frequency and length most certainately have to do with how good a task is. If a bad task takes a long time it is worse than a bad task that doesn't last long because you are getting bad xp for longer.

Similarly if a good task is assigned often it is better than a good task that is assigned very rarely because you are getting good xp more often. A task taking twice as long has the same effect as a task being twice as likely to be assigned except that assignment rate effects slayer points got/spent which I think is unimportant in the greater scheme of things.

 

Yes I take the max rate I will NOT include profit because it isn't important for what I wanted to use it for. Like I said earlier the formula is adaptable and you can add boredom, afkness and profit (read back if you don't know how to measure boredom).

 

Adding them does result in a meaningful number. It combines the comparisons it has with the other (max) tasks in an equal way, note that multiplying them together does not work because then Jad and mages would have a 0 base efficiency.

You fail to take into account that adding the numbers does not equal time saved/efficiency. Your (b/max b)^(X) [X=length*frequency] is completely arbitrary. A task of 5 minutes, assigned only once per 100 tasks, would have an X of what? 5*.01? or 1/12th * 1?

 

Same with b/max b. Are you taking max be to be one? 10? Pi? A monster with 90% of the max rates in all 3 stats would be at (.9/1)^(1/12*.01) which is very nearly one (.9999). A task with 10% of the max rates, with the same length and frequency, would be at .998. Are you now saying that both tasks are nearly the same?

 

Oh and of course when I said black demons > wfs for summoning xp I forgot chaos tunnels :wall: so only your top effigy monster is off.

[Viv]

Frequency has nothing to do with how good a task is - that only determines whether you should skip or block. Likewise length isn't important provided you don't have to much overhead (travelling).

 

Also, I'm assuming you're trying to take the max xp rate, charm rate and effigy rate and judging a task by those rates. You should also add profit. Secondly, simply adding them together doesn't result in any meaningful number. Finally, black demons are actually faster summoning xp & black dragons are faster effigies.

 

What you should calculate is the total amount of time a single monster (on task) gives you - in slayer xp, summoning xp, effigies (90 mins each, approx), money (at a certain income) etc.

Frequency and length most certainately have to do with how good a task is. If a bad task takes a long time it is worse than a bad task that doesn't last long because you are getting bad xp for longer.

Similarly if a good task is assigned often it is better than a good task that is assigned very rarely because you are getting good xp more often. A task taking twice as long has the same effect as a task being twice as likely to be assigned except that assignment rate effects slayer points got/spent which I think is unimportant in the greater scheme of things.

 

Yes I take the max rate I will NOT include profit because it isn't important for what I wanted to use it for. Like I said earlier the formula is adaptable and you can add boredom, afkness and profit (read back if you don't know how to measure boredom).

 

Adding them does result in a meaningful number. It combines the comparisons it has with the other (max) tasks in an equal way, note that multiplying them together does not work because then Jad and mages would have a 0 base efficiency. Also if you cared about slayer 3 times more than effigies and summoning the formula would be like

B = 3x (slayer) + (summoning) + (effigies)

agree miths are low exp high effigy but only get assigned few if u got like 100 miths id really consider if id do the task or not :S

 

terrordogs i do them always because the task takes 10 minutes or so and they are fun they would be quite annoying if assigned in bunches of 180

 

aquanites the task take long and that means getting bad exp for a longer time

 

i include profit because my bankvalue is pretty damn low :P

 

so abbies and black dragons(bone + hide) blue dragons ( boones) nechs (yak'ed) arent that hated as task

 

i however have a high enough bank to not care about the profit from torts, mages, aquas, desert stryke

[Thai_tong]

^Yay someone agrees with me

I am getting rather tired of explaining everything.

 

It doesn't matter if you have time in minutes or hours since you are raising both B/B max to the power of 60 for all tasks which only amplifies the results, comparin A^7/300 to ^B13/300 is the same as A^7 and B^13

 

Same with b/max b. Are you taking max be to be one? 10? Pi? A monster with 90% of the max rates in all 3 stats would be at (.9/1)^(1/12*.01) which is very nearly one (.9999). A task with 10% of the max rates, with the same length and frequency, would be at .998. Are you now saying that both tasks are nearly the same?

I thought about this for a couple days before finalising the formula. If you use a random number for them it does not work. For exmaple slay/100000 + summoning/ 0.1 creates an unfair domination of summoning. Also if all slayer rates were in the order of 10^6 and summoning rates were in the order of 10^3 adding them together with the same denominator would not work because slayer would dominate that is why you have to relate them to their counterparts, relating slayer to the xp rate of aquanites might work aswell but max rates have more of a reason to work so i used them.

 

Now for B/average B

Do you know how indexes work?

if the task is bad B is below average, being below average then B/av B is below 1 and the opposite is true for a good task. This makes the freq x length work, this is crucial to the formula working and is a clever solution to the fact that long good tasks are good but long bad tasks are bad meaning there is not a direct relationship between length and efficiency.

 

Maybe I didn't explain that in enough detail. For good tasks a high [freq x length] is good therefore when you put a number greater than 1 to the power of freq x length the higher the power the higher the result. This works the same for a bad task below 1 where a high [freq x length] is bad, when you put a number below 1 to the power of a larger number it becomes smaller and small is worse.

[Southpark0o]

Yes, do it SUOMI! :thumbup:

[Quyneax]

So you're ranking monsters according to random criteria then do some stuff with the ranking that doesn't even make sense.

 

One black demon is worth 157 slayer xp, 1570 lp worth of range + melee xp with say 60% cannon 40% melee damage - that's 188 ranged xp and 252 melee xp, 84 con xp. Each is worth about half a crimson charm and 1/500th of an effigy. One effigy is worth about 139k xp, so that's around 278 xp each. Half a crim is ~220 xp. One pouch takes what, a second to make? so that must be accounted for in the kill rate.

 

So you get a rate of processing black demons - killing, banking, opening effigies, selling loot, running pouches - and an xp value per kill which is ~1022 xp each.

 

You can do 300 kills/hr - that's 12 seconds. You run pouches for about 150 charms as well - that's 6 runs or, say, 3 minutes? Add a few minutes of banking, selling loot etc also 3 mins. That is about 66 mins for 300 kills or 13.2 seconds per kill.

 

13.2 seconds for 1022 xp.

 

Now the trouble is here that effigies are xp in slow skills mainly. So you'd have to value them as time. You can also value monsters as time but that's a lot trickier.

 

An effigy is about 90 minutes, for example. That'd add some 11 seconds per demon. I don't want to do calcs like that atm but you could.

[A13d]

Frequency has nothing to do with how good a task is - that only determines whether you should skip or block. Likewise length isn't important provided you don't have to much overhead (travelling).

 

Also, I'm assuming you're trying to take the max xp rate, charm rate and effigy rate and judging a task by those rates. You should also add profit. Secondly, simply adding them together doesn't result in any meaningful number. Finally, black demons are actually faster summoning xp & black dragons are faster effigies.

 

What you should calculate is the total amount of time a single monster (on task) gives you - in slayer xp, summoning xp, effigies (90 mins each, approx), money (at a certain income) etc.

Frequency and length most certainately have to do with how good a task is. If a bad task takes a long time it is worse than a bad task that doesn't last long because you are getting bad xp for longer.

Similarly if a good task is assigned often it is better than a good task that is assigned very rarely because you are getting good xp more often. A task taking twice as long has the same effect as a task being twice as likely to be assigned except that assignment rate effects slayer points got/spent which I think is unimportant in the greater scheme of things.

 

Yes I take the max rate I will NOT include profit because it isn't important for what I wanted to use it for. Like I said earlier the formula is adaptable and you can add boredom, afkness and profit (read back if you don't know how to measure boredom).

 

Adding them does result in a meaningful number. It combines the comparisons it has with the other (max) tasks in an equal way, note that multiplying them together does not work because then Jad and mages would have a 0 base efficiency.

You fail to take into account that adding the numbers does not equal time saved/efficiency. Your (b/max b)^(X) [X=length*frequency] is completely arbitrary. A task of 5 minutes, assigned only once per 100 tasks, would have an X of what? 5*.01? or 1/12th * 1?

 

Same with b/max b. Are you taking max be to be one? 10? Pi? A monster with 90% of the max rates in all 3 stats would be at (.9/1)^(1/12*.01) which is very nearly one (.9999). A task with 10% of the max rates, with the same length and frequency, would be at .998. Are you now saying that both tasks are nearly the same?

 

Oh and of course when I said black demons > wfs for summoning xp I forgot chaos tunnels :wall: so only your top effigy monster is off.

 

Actually taking into account all three categories at 90% B would be 2.7 not 0.9 so this would give 2.7^(1/12*.01) which is 1.00082805. Now another task with 10% in each category would be have B at 0.3 not 0.1 so this would be 0.3^(1/12*.01) which is 0.998997192. Therefore like Thai said a good task is greater than one (the one with 90% max rates) and a bad one is less than 1 (the one with 10% max rates). Also yeah these numbers are really close together but I think that the main point is whether the number is greater or less than one to determine if it is a good or bad task.

Inb4 anti math e rage

[Thai_tong]

So you're ranking monsters according to random criteria then do some stuff with the ranking that doesn't even make sense.

 

One black demon is worth 157 slayer xp, 1570 lp worth of range + melee xp with say 60% cannon 40% melee damage - that's 188 ranged xp and 252 melee xp, 84 con xp. Each is worth about half a crimson charm and 1/500th of an effigy. One effigy is worth about 139k xp, so that's around 278 xp each. Half a crim is ~220 xp. One pouch takes what, a second to make? so that must be accounted for in the kill rate.

 

So you get a rate of processing black demons - killing, banking, opening effigies, selling loot, running pouches - and an xp value per kill which is ~1022 xp each.

 

You can do 300 kills/hr - that's 12 seconds. You run pouches for about 150 charms as well - that's 6 runs or, say, 3 minutes? Add a few minutes of banking, selling loot etc also 3 mins. That is about 66 mins for 300 kills or 13.2 seconds per kill.

 

13.2 seconds for 1022 xp.

 

Now the trouble is here that effigies are xp in slow skills mainly. So you'd have to value them as time. You can also value monsters as time but that's a lot trickier.

 

An effigy is about 90 minutes, for example. That'd add some 11 seconds per demon. I don't want to do calcs like that atm but you could.

I disagree

[Aribiterspar]

do it suomi <3

[Quyneax]

[hide]

Frequency has nothing to do with how good a task is - that only determines whether you should skip or block. Likewise length isn't important provided you don't have to much overhead (travelling).

 

Also, I'm assuming you're trying to take the max xp rate, charm rate and effigy rate and judging a task by those rates. You should also add profit. Secondly, simply adding them together doesn't result in any meaningful number. Finally, black demons are actually faster summoning xp & black dragons are faster effigies.

 

What you should calculate is the total amount of time a single monster (on task) gives you - in slayer xp, summoning xp, effigies (90 mins each, approx), money (at a certain income) etc.

Frequency and length most certainately have to do with how good a task is. If a bad task takes a long time it is worse than a bad task that doesn't last long because you are getting bad xp for longer.

Similarly if a good task is assigned often it is better than a good task that is assigned very rarely because you are getting good xp more often. A task taking twice as long has the same effect as a task being twice as likely to be assigned except that assignment rate effects slayer points got/spent which I think is unimportant in the greater scheme of things.

 

Yes I take the max rate I will NOT include profit because it isn't important for what I wanted to use it for. Like I said earlier the formula is adaptable and you can add boredom, afkness and profit (read back if you don't know how to measure boredom).

 

Adding them does result in a meaningful number. It combines the comparisons it has with the other (max) tasks in an equal way, note that multiplying them together does not work because then Jad and mages would have a 0 base efficiency.

You fail to take into account that adding the numbers does not equal time saved/efficiency. Your (b/max b)^(X) [X=length*frequency] is completely arbitrary. A task of 5 minutes, assigned only once per 100 tasks, would have an X of what? 5*.01? or 1/12th * 1?

 

Same with b/max b. Are you taking max be to be one? 10? Pi? A monster with 90% of the max rates in all 3 stats would be at (.9/1)^(1/12*.01) which is very nearly one (.9999). A task with 10% of the max rates, with the same length and frequency, would be at .998. Are you now saying that both tasks are nearly the same?

 

Oh and of course when I said black demons > wfs for summoning xp I forgot chaos tunnels :wall: so only your top effigy monster is off.

 

Actually taking into account all three categories at 90% B would be 2.7 not 0.9 so this would give 2.7^(1/12*.01) which is 1.00082805. Now another task with 10% in each category would be have B at 0.3 not 0.1 so this would be 0.3^(1/12*.01) which is 0.998997192. Therefore like Thai said a good task is greater than one (the one with 90% max rates) and a bad one is less than 1 (the one with 10% max rates). Also yeah these numbers are really close together but I think that the main point is whether the number is greater or less than one to determine if it is a good or bad task.

Inb4 anti math e rage

[/hide]

You forgot to divide b by max b, which would be 2.7/3 (= .9) and .3/3 (=.1). However it's all not entirely relevant anymore as this is about ranks and you can't add/subtract/divide those as normal.

 

Incidentally your calcs would also indicate that a task with at least a max summoning, xp or effigy rate and one other rate (no matter how bad) is automatically good.

 

@ Thai: we can agree to disagree, if you like. I maintain your method has no value.

[Bassy]

The really aweful thing is that no one appreciates the time I put into it.

 

I appreciate it but the list just doesn't make much sense to me at the moment.

 

Really appreciate all the calculations and tasks lists that are posted here even though I don't always say it, keep it up!

 

Also was wondering if people would be interested to hear about my runescape history and how I started going for 200M in all skills. Would explain why I started asking for donations too, it would be very long post though and I don't really like talking about myself. Never been good writer either, especially in English. Would probably post it after Bonus XP weekend because been really busy with Slayer lately and have to write a bit at a time haha :P And don't really know if its something that people would like to read.

 

Anyways post what you think and I will think about it :P

 

This please please please. :ohnoes:

[Thai_tong]

I hope spending the last 150 minutes explaining it was of some use. My formula works on comparing the perks of tasks, you formula works on turning everything into time.

Hey at least I levelled woodcutting at ivy since I couldn't do anything less afk while answering your tedious questions

[miracleman58]

Welcome to the Slayer Efficency thread.

[yoooooooooooooooooooo]

I hope spending the last 150 minutes explaining it was of some use. My formula works on comparing the perks of tasks, you formula works on turning everything into time.

Hey at least I levelled woodcutting at ivy since I couldn't do anything less afk while answering your tedious questions

whiner

[jumper000]

Hey, can anyone find me a good vid for making bolts while doing extended barb? If anyone knows of one please :)

[Pluckey]

I hope spending the last 150 minutes explaining it was of some use. My formula works on comparing the perks of tasks, you formula works on turning everything into time.

Hey at least I levelled woodcutting at ivy since I couldn't do anything less afk while answering your tedious questions

whiner

 

Person with long name.

[A13d]

 

You forgot to divide b by max b, which would be 2.7/3 (= .9) and .3/3 (=.1). However it's all not entirely relevant anymore as this is about ranks and you can't add/subtract/divide those as normal.

 

Incidentally your calcs would also indicate that a task with at least a max summoning, xp or effigy rate and one other rate (no matter how bad) is automatically good.

 

@ Thai: we can agree to disagree, if you like. I maintain your method has no value.

 

O I thought the original equation was equal to (B/maxB) not just B since the rates were individually averaged in the original equation. Also @ Thai thanks for spending to time to make the equations for it, so for an optimal slayer xp list using effigies on slayer (for fastest possible slayer xp in the game) would the coefficients for slayer summ and effigies be 1, 0, 1 respectively or what

[Obtaurian]

Thai,

 

I've read your posts, your explanations, and your maths. It does not make sense, nor is it a realistic approach. I have no occasion to argue with you, however.

 

Sincerely,

Obtaurian

[A13d]

^ Owch lol

[Xensure]

Thai,

 

I've read your posts, your explanations, and your maths. It does not make sense, nor is it a realistic approach. I have no occasion to argue with you, however.

 

Sincerely,

Obtaurian

 

His math does make sense, and his methods do work. The problem with his method is that is equates everything equally. It says that slayer xp/h or is just as valuable as summon xp/h which is just as valuable as effigies per hour. This is where the problem lies. If you were to want equal amounts of slayer xp, sum xp, and effigies then Thai's list is the optimal list, but I think many people want the list that will result in 200m all skills the fastest. (Ok so most people don't want that either, but at least it is more relevant to the "optimal task list.") I am working on something that takes a different approach and I am being careful to make sure that I cancel all units so that the numbers can be compared properly.

[Viv]

Thai,

 

I've read your posts, your explanations, and your maths. It does not make sense, nor is it a realistic approach. I have no occasion to argue with you, however.

 

Sincerely,

Obtaurian

 

His math does make sense, and his methods do work. The problem with his method is that is equates everything equally. It says that slayer xp/h or is just as valuable as summon xp/h which is just as valuable as effigies per hour. This is where the problem lies. If you were to want equal amounts of slayer xp, sum xp, and effigies then Thai's list is the optimal list, but I think many people want the list that will result in 200m all skills the fastest. (Ok so most people don't want that either, but at least it is more relevant to the "optimal task list.") I am working on something that takes a different approach and I am being careful to make sure that I cancel all units so that the numbers can be compared properly.

slayer w/ effigy on slayer (i gotta stick to this plan) would get 200m all skills the fastest if and only if doing an above avarage effigy thing later.

summoning charms will be gotten after slayer so are a bit less important however are a factor i dont pick up gold/green only crim/blue :P

Profit is important considering that cavecrawlers is negative money to 200m slayer

 

um

 

my personal favorite task list also biased to melee exp since range will be done at crawlers ;P

[hide]

icestryke

black dragon

abysall demon

darkbeast

mith dragon

mutated bloodveld

iron dragon

steel dragon

black demon

gargoyle

blue dragon

terrordogs

kalphite

hh

dagga

specters

waterfiend

greater demon

tzaar

living rock

firegiant

dust devils

wyvern[/hide]

 

 

so yah u cant use maths to rank the best task however you can use maths to find out how much u can block/cancel or whats best for effigies and effigies are the most relevant for 200m all skills thread

 

and slayer is more varied so more to talk about just like dungeoneering is but dungeoneering/cooking are way less important to the discussion of 200m all than slayer is >.> i mean even just cooking rocktails in spare time and dungeoneering with friends can get 200m in those skills eventually :P

[langer]

Tezz has passed Paperbag for rank 9.

 

Definitely looking forward to the coming week end for other changes in rank!

[Yay0siris]

tezz going for 200m firemaking xp it seems

[Yay0siris]

is it just me or did telmomarques super saiyan his way to #2 in highscores?

[Hameigh]

I appreciate the formula Thai and am looking forward to when you get the google doc setup so I can input my multipliers for slayer/summ/effigy and see what list it gives me. :)

 

Bonus xp weekend will definitely be interesting for the top players. Predictions on who will gain the most xp over the weekend?

[langer]

I have a feeling it's gonna be Tezz. He's training at full speed amd has a bunch of charms to unload. Suomi is also a good bet. Telmomarques could use the bonus on herblore as it was rumored he was planning on training it anyway.

 

I wouldn't dismiss the others, but these are my bets.