Obama and Ramadan.

[champion]

I disagree with everything that comes out of Obama's mouth.

 

You sure about that?

[Kriegsmier]

Lots of ignorance in this thread. But its ok because most people have not dealt with true Muslims or the realm of Islam IRL before. I deal with them on a daily basis now, its Ramadan right now, and i had the same views as you before i was deployed. Not all Muslims are terrorists. Do i trust them all? Hell no but i don't consider them terrorists. I talk to them daily like you and i would about football or current events, i call them sir, i shake their hands. They provide us with everything here, the food, cleaning bathrooms, general services...Not all "Muslims" are bad people or terrorists. We should not group them all as one.

[Dire_Wolf]

When i went to Egypt ...hell i didn't trust many of those people.

 

 

 

I came from Irak/Iran area from a state called "Kurdistan". My point, not all muslims are good. The ones at Egypt (Not all of em are like that) obviously seems to be "American sucks" and "Saddam rocks". But they are just ignorant and stupid.

[ImstillFly]

I disagree with everything that comes out of Obama's mouth.

 

You sure about that?

 

 

 

roughly 1000 percent sure

[ElkNight]

I disagree with everything that comes out of Obama's mouth.

 

You sure about that?

 

 

 

roughly 1000 percent sure

 

 

 

:lol:

 

I'm sure you do.

[TTanT]

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

 

 

Thats how this thread made me feel. Many of you are just plain wrong, and most whoa re right seem to be right for the wrong reasons.

 

 

 

:wall: :wall:

 

 

 

Ok:

 

 

 

1) Obama should not acknowledge Ramadan.

 

Why? Seperation of church and state. I would also like Easter to be seperated from the state. I'd say Christmas as well, but Christmas has gotten to the point where its practically agnostic. Other holidays, such as Thanksgiving, shoudl be kept, as their meaning to give thanks (duh) and celebrate America. Celebrating your own country is perfectly fine. If you disagree with this....

 

 

 

2) Stop going on about slavery.

 

Yes the US kept African Americans for slaves. But guess what? Christians captured Muslims and forced them to be slaves, rowing in ships and doing menial labor. Muslims made Christians slaves. Everyone made Jews slaves. Perhaps the US took a while to egt over it, but our country is no where near the worst. As a matter of fact, I'd say we are one of the better nations, but thats just my nationalism speaking.

 

 

 

3) Why are these fools saying Obama is a terrorist?

 

Thats just stupid to a whole new level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically I'm against what Obama did, simply because it goes against the constitution. Am I the only one who seems to notice that Arenal's post did not actually say he hated Islam?

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, I think i've ranted enough, I have an essay to write.

 

 

 

2)

[EdgedThesis]

So, just because he is president, his word becomes government decree?

 

He cant make speeches about whatever he wants, like the average citizen can?

 

 

 

It isn't like Shari'ah law is being embraced or anything--its a dude making a speech. How is that a merge of Church and State? Maybe I am missing something. Did he submit new Islamic laws...?

[EarthySun]

So, just because he is president, his word becomes government decree?

 

He cant make speeches about whatever he wants, like the average citizen can?

 

 

 

It isn't like Shari'ah law is being embraced or anything--its a dude making a speech. How is that a merge of Church and State? Maybe I am missing something. Did he submit new Islamic laws...?

 

 

 

Obama isn't just anybody, however. He isn't an ordinary citizen; he's the leader of our nation. People judge a nation by its leader.

[TTanT]

So, just because he is president, his word becomes government decree?

 

He cant make speeches about whatever he wants, like the average citizen can?

 

 

 

It isn't like Shari'ah law is being embraced or anything--its a dude making a speech. How is that a merge of Church and State? Maybe I am missing something. Did he submit new Islamic laws...?

 

 

 

Obama isn't just anybody, however. He isn't an ordinary citizen; he's the leader of our nation. People judge a nation by its leader.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. By becoming president you forfeit a few rights.

 

 

 

The right to dis your own country. The right to have radically idiotic opinions, and the right to publically support religions/businesses. Mind you, I wasn't referring to Obama in particular with those, so don't flame me.

[EdgedThesis]

Hmm, so in order to represent you, a leader loses the rights that he himself is supposed to stand for.

 

Right.

 

 

 

From what I've read Obama isn't placing Islam at a level higher than other religions. No, he's just saving it from that demonic illusion that no doubt is hosted within the minds of the many impressionable citizens of the United States.

 

 

 

He's not elevating it, he's preventing it from being completely damned.

 

But now I see that this action simply condemns him and the religion whose face he was trying to reconstruct.

 

Thank you for enlightening me as to that little gem of knowledge.

[Skully]

Of course people will complain. I'm from England but still I can see how the American citizens will feel. Muslims don't come from the US, therefore I can see why these people wouldn't want them and their 'culture' if you like to be brought into there country and seemingly supported by Obama. It would seem as if they're invading the country or something.

 

 

 

I also find it rather ironic how islams are allowed to travel to countries or even imigrate to places such as the US or the UK and they build their churches, but if a christian believer went to Islamabad or something and built a church, they would probably be shot or something for disrespecting their country and so-called sinning against their native religion.

 

 

 

I'm going to make a generalisation here, but hey bite me. I think all in all muslims are pretty ignorant and pretty unaccepting people, they seem to think they can imigrate and do whatever they like, but the people of the west don't have the same rights apparently. So in my eyes they deserve whatever hate they're getting, regardless of 9/11 or other terrorist acts.

 

 

 

Flame me for my opinion, I don't care. Oh and btw, i'm neither Christian, Islamic or any other religious belief.

[gauper_kid]

 

 

 

I also find it rather ironic how islams are allowed to travel to countries or even imigrate to places such as the US or the UK and they build their churches, but if a christian believer went to Islamabad or something and built a church, they would probably be shot or something for disrespecting their country and so-called sinning against their native religion.

 

That's because America is tolerant of other religions

 

I'm going to make a generalisation here, but hey bite me. I think all in all muslims are pretty ignorant and pretty unaccepting people, they seem to think they can imigrate and do whatever they like, but the people of the west don't have the same rights apparently. So in my eyes they deserve whatever hate they're getting, regardless of 9/11 or other terrorist acts.

 

Where is this coming from?

 

Flame me for my opinion, I don't care. Oh and btw, i'm neither Christian, Islamic or any other religious belief.

[Skully]

 

 

 

I also find it rather ironic how islams are allowed to travel to countries or even imigrate to places such as the US or the UK and they build their churches, but if a christian believer went to Islamabad or something and built a church, they would probably be shot or something for disrespecting their country and so-called sinning against their native religion.

 

That's because America is tolerant of other religions

 

I'm going to make a generalisation here, but hey bite me. I think all in all muslims are pretty ignorant and pretty unaccepting people, they seem to think they can imigrate and do whatever they like, but the people of the west don't have the same rights apparently. So in my eyes they deserve whatever hate they're getting, regardless of 9/11 or other terrorist acts.

 

Where is this coming from?

 

Flame me for my opinion, I don't care. Oh and btw, i'm neither Christian, Islamic or any other religious belief.

 

 

 

1) Maybe the government is, but I can see why citizens will not like the fact that these people are not treating others as they expect the people of the country they're imigrating to to treat them.

 

 

 

2) I'm talking about why american citizens will not like Obama making this speech, because those muslims aren't very tolerant. So why the hell should they be?

[Riku3220]

1) Maybe the government is, but I can see why citizens will not like the fact that these people are not treating others as they expect the people of the country they're imigrating to to treat them.

 

 

 

2) I'm talking about why american citizens will not like Obama making this speech, because those muslims aren't very tolerant. So why the hell should they be?

 

1) Anyone immigrating from America to the Middle East to set up a church are doing it to either convert the Muslims or to spite them.

 

 

 

2)They aren't tolerant to us because they know more than 3/4ths of America hates them for what a few of them did.

[Skully]

1) Maybe the government is, but I can see why citizens will not like the fact that these people are not treating others as they expect the people of the country they're imigrating to to treat them.

 

 

 

2) I'm talking about why american citizens will not like Obama making this speech, because those muslims aren't very tolerant. So why the hell should they be?

 

1) Anyone immigrating from America to the Middle East to set up a church are doing it to either convert the Muslims or to spite them.

 

 

 

2)They aren't tolerant to us because they know more than 3/4ths of America hates them for what a few of them did.

 

 

 

1) That's pretty unfair and also pretty hypocritical if you think the generalisations made towards muslims are bad. Why should it be a different case? I could say I am offended by there being a muslims church near to my home. What now?

 

 

 

2) I'm not necessarily talking about being tolerant of the people, i'm talking about being tolerant of religions that are common to the countries they immigrate too. Hell, if they have a problem with these places, they shouldn't come here and stay where they came from.

[Riku3220]

1) Maybe the government is, but I can see why citizens will not like the fact that these people are not treating others as they expect the people of the country they're imigrating to to treat them.

 

 

 

2) I'm talking about why american citizens will not like Obama making this speech, because those muslims aren't very tolerant. So why the hell should they be?

 

1) Anyone immigrating from America to the Middle East to set up a church are doing it to either convert the Muslims or to spite them.

 

 

 

2)They aren't tolerant to us because they know more than 3/4ths of America hates them for what a few of them did.

 

 

 

1) That's pretty unfair and also pretty hypocritical if you think the generalisations made towards muslims are bad. Why should it be a different case? I could say I am offended by there being a muslims church near to my home. What now?

 

 

 

2) I'm not necessarily talking about being tolerant of the people, i'm talking about being tolerant of religions that are common to the countries they immigrate too. Hell, if they have a problem with these places, they shouldn't come here and stay where they came from.

 

1) Muslim churches aren't the ones that are going around trying to convert people who don't want to be converted. Not to mention an American really has no reason to immigrate to the Middle East and set up a church except to convert/spite.

 

 

 

2) They don't have a problem with other religions. They have a problem with other religions shoving it into their faces.

[Skully]

1) Maybe the government is, but I can see why citizens will not like the fact that these people are not treating others as they expect the people of the country they're imigrating to to treat them.

 

 

 

2) I'm talking about why american citizens will not like Obama making this speech, because those muslims aren't very tolerant. So why the hell should they be?

 

1) Anyone immigrating from America to the Middle East to set up a church are doing it to either convert the Muslims or to spite them.

 

 

 

2)They aren't tolerant to us because they know more than 3/4ths of America hates them for what a few of them did.

 

 

 

1) That's pretty unfair and also pretty hypocritical if you think the generalisations made towards muslims are bad. Why should it be a different case? I could say I am offended by there being a muslims church near to my home. What now?

 

 

 

2) I'm not necessarily talking about being tolerant of the people, i'm talking about being tolerant of religions that are common to the countries they immigrate too. Hell, if they have a problem with these places, they shouldn't come here and stay where they came from.

 

1) Muslim churches aren't the ones that are going around trying to convert people who don't want to be converted. Not to mention an American really has no reason to immigrate to the Middle East and set up a church except to convert/spite.

 

 

 

2) They don't have a problem with other religions. They have a problem with other religions shoving it into their faces.

 

 

 

You fail to realise it works both ways. But if you can't see my point i'm not going to bother with arguing with you anymore.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I'm glad. I really thought this topic was gonna be about Obama being a sceret muslim or something. If I had my way, they wouldn't bother with any religious celebrations. Let the people who believe it do that crap.

 

 

 

Just make sure no one flies a plane into my workplace and leave me enough money for food and my various lubes. 8-)

[1_man_army]

I'm glad. I really thought this topic was gonna be about Obama being a sceret muslim or something.

 

 

 

That was my first thought when I saw the thread title as well.

[Zonorhc]

I also find it rather ironic how islams are allowed to travel to countries or even imigrate to places such as the US or the UK and they build their churches, but if a christian believer went to Islamabad or something and built a church, they would probably be shot or something for disrespecting their country and so-called sinning against their native religion.

 

I'm not sure if you realise that the US is a secular state, and that the countries you are referring to aren't.

[Utopianflame]

I disagree with everything that comes out of Obama's mouth.

 

You sure about that?

 

 

 

roughly 1000 percent sure

 

This just in: Glenn Beck accuses Obama of racism after "I'm for clean air" comment.

 

 

 

Glenn Back does make a wonderful text book case of Psychological Projection.

 

 

 

As to the topic, The president trying to rebuild a heavily bombed and burned bridge between the country he leads and a large chunk of the worlds population? THE HORROR!

[obfuscator]

You see this is why I like Canada. We don't force Western culture down Immigrants throats, thus allowing them to practice their culture and get involved with communities of like minded people within Canada. This means that the Canadian government doesn't have to do these huge things that focus on one group of people. If the states acted a bit more like this, you wouldn't have your president trying to educate people about a different culture, cause you would be less xenophobic.

 

 

 

 

 

But in the end, I think Obama is doing the right thing. Might as well try to show that you care in a country that seems to dislike a specific culture.

 

 

 

Definitely. However, it's definitely more of a suck up move than anything, and I don't like that. The US administration should support every religion, not just make insignificant gestures to try to improve strained relations.

 

 

 

That said, it's certainly more proactive than the previous ways of dealing with muslims.

[Necromagus]

Meh, I'm a bit of a hardliner when it comes to separation of church and state, but I understand the need for a president to reach out to various religious communities. I guess a lot of this has to do with his upbringing. His mother was an anthropologist, and she taught him about the customs and beliefs of a lot of different religious systems.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

That said, it's certainly more proactive than the previous ways of dealing with muslims.

 

 

 

Telling them to piss off and then having our builldings blown up? :-#

[BlueLancer]

Of course people will complain. I'm from England but still I can see how the American citizens will feel. Muslims don't come from the US, therefore I can see why these people wouldn't want them and their 'culture' if you like to be brought into there country

 

 

 

There is a significant portion of muslims who have lived in the US for generations longer than many white and hispanic christians. I don't see how you can say they don't "come from the US" since most of them have lived in America for decades.

 

 

 

If we go down that path, christians come from Europe and all other continents as well. Only native american religious practitioners "come" from America. Up to definition of how long someone should stay in a country to be deemed 'American'. If you have citizenship and your grandparents did too, I see no reason why these people wouldn't be american..

 

 

 

Also, it seems many people didn't read Zonorhc's post on first page. This is the reality of the situation. Politicians don't do anything out of good will. Everything from the way you shake a hand with a certain person to which words you use in a speech, has implications and bell curve effects for future votes.

 

 

 

His appreciation for the muslims is pure politics. They represent a voter block that wants to be assured the state will not discriminate against them or limit their freedoms. Before judging someone so fast, read up on political theory. Nothing is random or '[wagon] kissing'. Everything is about staying in power, maintaining popularity levels and securing the next vote.