The F2P General Discussion Thread

[Kaida23]

What's the general feeling about 07 RS & possible FtP highscores? :wink:

I think RS07 is going to turn into a ghost world like RSC has become, and as much as I'd like to see it happen I doubt they're ever going to give us back hiscores.

[Gullible]

Mining is easily 40k+/hr without max efficiency, just dropping iron with urns. Woodcutting goes at around 75k/hr with 99 wc, so probably around 60k maybe at 50-60-ish WC. Fishing provides similar rates at barbarian village.

 

As for combat, I'm not sure about lower level training methods, but considering the fact that melee xp per hour goes over 90k at 80+ melees, it has to be alot faster than before in any case.

 

So yeah, everything is faster. I just don't know how people train combats at lower levels, since I haven't really done it.

Just wondering where you train melee for 90k an hour. My stats are 88 strength, 85 attack and 84 defence and I don't seem to be getting anywhere near that much. I've tried deadly red spiders with a war hammer and a g2h with pretty bad results as my hits appear to be inaccurate, hill giants got around 45k/h while ankous around 58k/h. I tested with g2h and strength potions for all three but don't seem to be getting anywhere near 90k. Am I doing something wrong with my setup or is there a different monster to train?

Thanks

[Makkaravelho]

I, myself, haven't tried out xp rates in combat skills since I am already maxed melee on my F2P account, which I pretty much quit on in any case. My friends, however, all report xp rates around and above 90k/hour at hellhounds in the forinthry dungeon, using a gravite 2h and strength potions.

[Mister Raven]

I tried training melee combat at Hill Giants in the dungeon. They're weak to air spells but also REALLY easy to kill with melee. And gives around 114~ xp per kill (not counting constitution xp). So I suppose it is a great way to train, knowing that spiders from SOS gives much less xp and are harder to kill. Also Karamja or Varrock sewers spiders now are really hard to kill.

[Gullible]

Ohh I see, thanks for the info I'll definitely try it out.

Mister raven, hill giants are good, but ankous have less hitpoints and give more xp while being not much harder to hit :)

Edit: I tried the hellhounds and it's definitely 90k/hr if they didn't hit so much, I went through a whole inventory of food in under 30 minutes albeit wearing Mage armour.

[MedievalKid]

I wanted to bring back this topic, the topic of the supposed *NEW* Dungeoneering xp nerf. I know this has been discussed many times, in many different places, but I have a theory, backed by my knowledge of the History of Dungeoneering, and some of those involved in it's creation. My theory could explain, or at least shed some light on to what I think is going on with the supposed new xp nerf. But before I get into that, I want to shed a bit of light on the early days of Dungeoneering.

 

**A tl;dr version is available at the bottom of this post, though the information provided below will help explain the arrival of my conclusion**

 

 

Shortly after Dungeoneering was released, it became apparent to members and free players alike that the xp rates were faster in f2p. This was because of how much quicker, and easier it was to complete the dungeons without all the added members material, and the lower level cap on monsters in f2p (the max prestige was also 35 in both f2p and p2p at the time). So Jagex implemented what seemed to be a quick fix to stop them from losing members who found it more efficient to train in free worlds - an xp nerf for anyone 90 combat or above (or the average level of the party being 90 combat or above) in f2p. A Jmod by the name of Mod Trick was one of the lead developers of this project - presumably the one who added in the code for the xp nerf to players above 90 combat in f2p worlds.

 

Now we fast-forward a couple of years to the newest "big" update by Jagex - Evolution Of Combat. This update of course brought us a lot of new content, such as new armour/weapons, the action bar, or abilities.. but what I'm most interested in to help support my theory is the changes in Combat levels. We've jumped from a max combat level of 126 (or 138 in members) to a max level of 200. It has already been "Proven" or "shown" that the "Xp nerf" ends at 138 Combat. Which can be seen here:

 

[Hide=F2p Dg xp Nerf]

I know this has been confirmed long ago at least on one RSOF thread, but here are my numbers anyway:

 

Combat level : Total XP (Floor 35)

138 (84 str, 52 def) : 6632

139 (85 str, 52 def) : 14800

 

Both numbers with solo small c6 floors with all bonus rooms and 10% level mod.

 

So, this is part of how the F2P dungeoneering penalty works at the moment. Now I just hope this ridiculous bug is never ”fixed”...

[/hide]

 

So all of this got me thinking. I have a friend who was friend's with Mod Trick. Through this friend.. and to the best of my knowledge Mod Trick, for whatever reason, no longer works at Jagex. That's not overly important to my Theory, but it is the point in which I took a step back and had this idea. I thought to myself.. What if when the code was written for Dungeoneering it was written to nerf the Xp of f2p players with a combat level anywhere between (and including) 90 - 138? If the Mod who wrote it is no longer with Jagex.. wouldn't that information potentially get "lost?". You can propose the argument that yes - max combat in f2p was 126, but maybe Jagex had some specific reason as to why they put the top end of the xp nerf as the p2p max level (I have many guesses as to why they may have done this, but my guess would be as good as anybody's guess, and the reasoning is ultimately irrelevant anyway, so I won't share them here). Thinking about this logically.. it makes sense.. they have a minimum level cut off for the xp nerf, so why not a maximum! This was a couple years ago now, so why not make max p2p level the cut off? No player can ever get above 138 Combat anyway right? After all.. EoC wasn't yet in the works - or at least seriously enough for it to be a concern with Dungeoneering at the time, so 138 maximum cut off.. just makes sense!

 

So what does this mean for us now? Well.. my Theory here is that the f2p Dungeoneering xp nerf was not changed, removed, or altered in anyway at all! In fact.. it almost appear's that they either forgot to change/remove it.. or forgot that it even existed/or was live in game all together! We still have the exact same xp nerf we had in Dungeoneering Pre-EoC, unaltered and unchanged (not accounting for the increase in xp for smaller parties of course). The only difference being, we've now discovered the maximum combat level they applied the xp nerf to. The old maximum combat in RuneScape - Level 138. The nerf in xp was for f2p players 90 - 138 combat (yes even though we could only reach 126).

 

Now that I had this theory in my mind, that actually seemed quite plausible to me.. I needed to test it somehow. I wasn't about to make a new account, and train it to 69+ Dungeoneering, under 90 combat to test my theory so I bounced the idea off Lord Slayas, and we got a couple alternate accounts we had stored away to perform a very basic test of my theory.. and here are the results we came up with.

 

Lord Slayas alternate account - 114 Combat - Solo Dungeon - Floor 1 - Complexity 1 - 10% level Mod - Small - 0 Deaths - 1 Prestige - 8 Rooms - 49 xp (Rounded up to 83 xp)

 

Medieval Kid's alternate account - 62 Combat - Solo Dungeon - Floor 1 - Complexity 1 - 10% level Mod - Small - 0 Deaths - 1 Prestige - 6 Rooms - 96 xp (Rounded up to 174xp)

 

As you can see above.. every variable we could was kept consistent except for that which we are testing. That being that the xp nerf effect's players within the ranges of 90-138 combat (the level 138 combat nerf has been tested already, and some results for that can be seen in the hidden quote earlier in this post) . Unfortunately neither Slayas or I had an account within a couple levels of 90, but these result clearly show the difference in an account above, and below 90 combat, and that Slayas got about half the xp I did (96 / 2 = 48 xp). The "rounded up xp" is what our total Dungeoneering experience was upon completion of the Dungeons. If you are to check - 83 is the xp for level 2 in a skill, and 174 is the xp for level 3 in a skill. For those of you who don't know - Jagex rounds your Dungeoneering xp up to the nearest level for the first few levels to help you out when you're first starting to train Dungeoneering (So I included those numbers as well, as it is our actual Dungeoneering experience). You may also notice that Slayas had 2 more rooms in his Dungeon than I did. This may or may not account for the odd xp after applying the xp nerf to my xp, or taking it off of Slayas xp. Alternatively the odd xp could simply have to do with some rounding in the xp calculation.

 

I believe the xp nerf was never removed from the game, and is applied to players with a combat level in the range of 90-138. I invite and encourage others to also test out this theory if they want. Perhaps someone who can keep all the consistent variables the same with combat levels closer to 90. Though I do believe my theory will still hold up, and is quite likely the "xp nerf", it would be nice to have some more tests or confirmation of this. This is why I think some f2p players are still experiencing nerfed xp rates while Dungeoneering.

 

****TL;DR Version****

 

I believe the original xp nerf was never removed from the game, thus causing players with the combat levels between 90 - 138 to experience a drop in xp rates. Upon further investigation and testing of this theory it appears to hold true, and seems likely to be the reason why some players are receiving reduced experience rates in Dungeoneering.

 

************

 

This is unfortunate that we have to deal with this, but at least we have a much better alternative than before. If this is the reasoning behind the xp nerf (and I am fairly certain it is), you can avoid training Dungeoneering between the combat levels of 90 - 138. Instead of being trapped in an eternity of less xp once reaching 90+ combat in f2p, the best advice would be to train your combat level up past 138 (once reaching 90), and then resume Dungeoneering for the non-nerfed, standard xp rates.

 

~Medi

 

**Please also note that this was only tested in a solo Dungeoneering environment. I did not test any group settings, so I'm not sure how the xp nerf would apply to groups with an average combat level within the 90-138 combat range, or individual players with a combat level within that same range in a Dungeoneering group (2 or more people).

[Arceus]

That's interesting-and yes, note that the number of rooms has no effect, as long as they are all completed.

[Platinum_Myr]

That's really stupid programming, it's not future proof.. Why even bother with a maximum value if no one can go above it? That adds a comparison operation for nothing. (Not saying it isn't whats there just commenting on the ludicrousness of it) The whole nerf is silly anyways.

[Arceus]

For one thing it was NOT a penalty imposed on 90-126, it was based on average party combat level and it was a sliding scale all the way down.

[Lord Slayas]

If anyone is wondering, I did indeed test this out with Medieval Kid, those are the exact numbers we got, and I came to the same conclusion as he did. Unfortunately, it seems the F2P Cb Nerf is still in effect. Fortunately, finally, people can avoid it quite successfully.

[MedievalKid]

That's really stupid programming, it's not future proof.. Why even bother with a maximum value if no one can go above it? That adds a comparison operation for nothing. (Not saying it isn't whats there just commenting on the ludicrousness of it) The whole nerf is silly anyways.

 

Agreed. Like I said, my guess is as good as yours as to why they'd limit it at the p2p max combat level - or even limit it at all, but this appears to be the case. I can't see any other reason for the xp nerf to presumably only effect those in the 90-138 combat range.

 

For one thing it was NOT a penalty imposed on 90-126, it was based on average party combat level and it was a sliding scale all the way down.

 

I may have worded it incorrectly in my original post, but that's why I added the note at the bottom stating this was only done in and based off of a solo Dungeoneering environment. I was well aware it was based on average combat level of the party, and of the ever popular "2 Combat, 3 Skiller party" work around to bring the party level average under 90, while still allowing for efficiently completing floors (especially for large floors of course).

 

Maybe a test could be carried out with consistent variables of someone at the lower end of the scale against someone in the higher end of the proposed scale (90-138 combat) to verify that this "sliding scale" nerf is still in effect - further adding support to this idea.

 

~Medi

[Kaida23]

That's really stupid programming, it's not future proof.. Why even bother with a maximum value if no one can go above it? That adds a comparison operation for nothing. (Not saying it isn't whats there just commenting on the ludicrousness of it) The whole nerf is silly anyways.

 

Agreed. Like I said, my guess is as good as yours as to why they'd limit it at the p2p max combat level - or even limit it at all, but this appears to be the case. I can't see any other reason for the xp nerf to presumably only effect those in the 90-138 combat range.

 

My understanding of the nerf was that it was implemented to discourage members from doing floors on free worlds where the monsters are easier. I guess those particular levels were never corrected for when they brought out the EoC which is why it stops at 138.

 

Makes me glad my combat level went from 70-something (I don't recall exactly) to 152 when the EoC went live. I jumped the whole affected range. :grin:

[Gullible]

From memory the actual range is x-139 based off dg family's investigations, not sure what the minimum is as it was never found.

I can post a link here to the thread detailing the investigation but I don't know if other forum links are allowed.

To test the 90 combat, you'd need an account with 89 combat and 90 combat to make it absolute.

[Arceus]

Here's a picture (ignore the exact values on y-axis, and controlled for variables, all in 5-person parties; the x is average combat):

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-40hxDA2boyg/Truz6TP3PzI/AAAAAAAAACE/vqR1VyKCjC8/s1600/CombatXP.png

[Gullible]

http://dgfamily.77forum.com/t1382-notes-for-experience-loss-in-f2p-dungeoneering

Thats the URL for dgf's testing, though you may need to register to see it.

[sees_all1]

Sounds like we all need to get 200M dung xp before they realize this.

[wormy]

This is probably some place else but,

combat level 82-90 floor 1 complex 1 killing everything. I think I got through dungeoneering lvl 5 before I started getting combat levels.

82/83 154

86/87 139

88 133

89 128

90 128.

[Miner_Guy]

Can anyone update me on whats been going on past couple of months, I dont play RS anymore but am still interested in it. Apparently there is a poll to bring back 2007 RS and are they removing EOC?

[Marduk_God]

Can anyone update me on whats been going on past couple of months, I dont play RS anymore but am still interested in it. Apparently there is a poll to bring back 2007 RS and are they removing EOC?

 

If you want to know more about the 2007 version, you can find more information about it in the thread about that topic in this same subsection. :) I'm not saying that to diss you or anything, it's just preferable to keep this topic from spilling over into other threads (the 200m one, and here).

 

To answer your question, though: they are not removing EOC. Jagex has decided to implement an older version of RS (august 2007) separately - similar to how classic servers are still playable. From what I've read in the thread about it on this forum, the 2007 servers will be able to support about 100K players.

 

The result will be two separate versions of the same game with the current (EOC) version still being the 'main' game. People can still communicate with each other (similar to how classic and current RS players can communicate), but you can only play (be logged into) one version at a time. If you decide to play 2007scape, you start from scratch - level 1 skills and empty bank.

 

The "poll" is merely a means to garner interest, the decision had been taken before the poll was implemented. If you vote on the poll, you do get the first month of 2007scape for free, however.

 

Oh, and the 2007 servers are going live tonight, unless I'm mistaken.

 

More information is in the 2007 thread. It's a long thread, but the first few pages are probably worth reading through.

[Miner_Guy]

Can anyone update me on whats been going on past couple of months, I dont play RS anymore but am still interested in it. Apparently there is a poll to bring back 2007 RS and are they removing EOC?

 

They are not removing EOC. Jagex has decided to implement an older version of RS (august 2007) separately - similar to how classic servers are (or were) still playable. The result will be two separate versions of the same game. People can still communicate with each other, but you can only play (be logged into) one version at a time. If you decide to play 2007scape, you start from scratch - level 1 skills and empty bank.

 

The "poll" is merely a means to garner interest, the decision had been taken before the poll was implemented. From a statistical point of view, it's absolutely worthless. If you vote on the poll, you get the first month of 2007scape for free, however.

Whats the point of starting from scratch, couldnt they just give you your current stats? I guess its not much interest for F2P as you need to pay

[Misaki]

played for 18 hours straight...

 

[Fire_Hawk154]

Nice rank :D

[Gullible]

That rank 16 with 278k is impressive.

How do you access the 07hiscores, or is it p2p access only?

[mackenzie14]

Has anyone thought over playing rs 2007 with "f2p" account. So you will not use any p2p gear and visit p2p areas. Ofcourse the we would have issues with proofing that, but as for the player himself, it might be good playing experience.

[Gewoon Jop]

That rank 16 with 278k is impressive.

How do you access the 07hiscores, or is it p2p access only?

 

just go to the 07 site (oldschool.runescape.com) and you will see a link to the highscores there.