Chaotic Rapier vs Longsword

[ghjkl]

So cmaul is better than long, so stop going around yapping about how long is the best weapon. And name me one monster that is weak to slash. Cmaul is better than longsword, there is no monster weak to slash. I have defeated you using your trolling logic.

[Cheefoo]

Cmaul hits 16.66 times an hour..

 

Thats sounds awfully slow...

[xSxqPowerx]

Seriously?

This thread is still going? :mellow:

 

Also, for me, CLS is the best weapon on bosses. (graar/zil)

CLS is better than rapier, and even if maul has better DPS than CLS, you lose the ability to have a shield. That is a major fail when soloing - especially when I have divine.

 

That being said, I will get rapier next for slayering and low bosses. I have no use for maul.

 

 

But again, this thread is OLD.

[ghjkl]

Defender is more efficient at gwd than a shield is, faster kills and more banking is generally better than slower kills and less banking.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

Using Grimy's own numbers, or yours as they may be, they are flawed. Grimy assumes 550 max hit on rapier. 550 x 25 hits/min x 60 mins = 825000 possible damage per hour not 1,171. If max damage on one hit is 550 then 1,171 in one hour means that the rapier only hits 2.13 times in an hour.

it would seem you got trolled by somebody who input a target of 100,000 effective defense into my spreadsheet.

Oh wait, was that you?

[Renshae]

So cmaul is better than long, so stop going around yapping about how long is the best weapon. And name me one monster that is weak to slash. Cmaul is better than longsword, there is no monster weak to slash. I have defeated you using your trolling logic.

No, again you jump to a false conclusion.

 

Remember, that cls is also stronger in stab than the rapier.

[Aiel]

So cmaul is better than long, so stop going around yapping about how long is the best weapon. And name me one monster that is weak to slash. Cmaul is better than longsword, there is no monster weak to slash. I have defeated you using your trolling logic.

No, again you jump to a false conclusion.

 

Remember, that cls is also stronger in stab than the rapier.

lmfao trolled.

The point of my earlier numbers which you seem to be avoiding is that against essentially infinite (100000) defense, in maxed gear, etc, etc, the chaotic rapier will have a higher DPS then the chaotic long. This means that in ANY situation where the monster has equal or approximately equal defense against stab and slash, the rapier is ALWAYS better.

[ghjkl]

Omg I give up, maybe if we ignore this guy he will sto posting. Its funny how everyone in the thread is against him yet he still thinks it he is right. Idc anymore anyway I'm just gonna watch from now on. He just needs to know he isn't convincing anyone.

[Renshae]

Using Grimy's own numbers, or yours as they may be, they are flawed. Grimy assumes 550 max hit on rapier. 550 x 25 hits/min x 60 mins = 825000 possible damage per hour not 1,171. If max damage on one hit is 550 then 1,171 in one hour means that the rapier only hits 2.13 times in an hour.

it would seem you got trolled by somebody who input a target of 100,000 effective defense into my spreadsheet.

Oh wait, was that you?

No, it wasn't me. Someone put in invalid data and I pointed it out.

 

However, I would appreciate any input you may have including the formulas you used for your spread sheets.

 

Thanks,

 

Ren

[Renshae]

Omg I give up, maybe if we ignore this guy he will sto posting. Its funny how everyone in the thread is against him yet he still thinks it he is right. Idc anymore anyway I'm just gonna watch from now on. He just needs to know he isn't convincing anyone.

No one has been able to demonstrate a valid reason as to why you think the rapier is better than the cls, either mathematically or logically.

[Aiel]

Using Grimy's own numbers, or yours as they may be, they are flawed. Grimy assumes 550 max hit on rapier. 550 x 25 hits/min x 60 mins = 825000 possible damage per hour not 1,171. If max damage on one hit is 550 then 1,171 in one hour means that the rapier only hits 2.13 times in an hour.

it would seem you got trolled by somebody who input a target of 100,000 effective defense into my spreadsheet.

Oh wait, was that you?

No, it wasn't me. Someone put in invalid data and I pointed it out.

 

However, I would appreciate any input you may have including the formulas you used for your spread sheets.

 

Thanks,

 

Ren

its not invalid and I already pointed out that his spreadsheets are open source.

Omg I give up, maybe if we ignore this guy he will sto posting. Its funny how everyone in the thread is against him yet he still thinks it he is right. Idc anymore anyway I'm just gonna watch from now on. He just needs to know he isn't convincing anyone.

No one has been able to demonstrate a valid reason as to why you think the rapier is better than the cls, either mathematically or logically.

The point of my earlier numbers which you seem to be avoiding is that against essentially infinite (100000) defense, in maxed gear, etc, etc, the chaotic rapier will have a higher DPS then the chaotic long. This means that in ANY situation where the monster has equal or approximately equal defense against stab and slash, the rapier is ALWAYS better.

[ghjkl]

Why would you want the formula? We already done tests of cls vs crapier using his formulas, and the rapier generally won. According to you any calculation that puts the rapier as superior is wrong, therefore you are asking for a formula that you believe is invalid.

[Renshae]

So cmaul is better than long, so stop going around yapping about how long is the best weapon. And name me one monster that is weak to slash. Cmaul is better than longsword, there is no monster weak to slash. I have defeated you using your trolling logic.

No, again you jump to a false conclusion.

 

Remember, that cls is also stronger in stab than the rapier.

lmfao trolled.

The point of my earlier numbers which you seem to be avoiding is that against essentially infinite (100000) defense, in maxed gear, etc, etc, the chaotic rapier will have a higher DPS then the chaotic long. This means that in ANY situation where the monster has equal or approximately equal defense against stab and slash, the rapier is ALWAYS better.

The only thing that you demonstrated was that you used false data for your computations which I caught immediately. You entered the strength and attk bonuses on the cls and the rapier as being equal, and the only difference you had between the two was the better speed on the rapier. Without even crunching the numbers you can conclude that two weapons with equal str and attk but where one is faster, the faster weapon would do more damage.

 

However, as I have stated several times now, you falsified data and came up with a false conclusion. The only thing you have demonstrated is your lack on ethics and integrity. You have totally discredited and discounted yourself.

[Renshae]

Using Grimy's own numbers, or yours as they may be, they are flawed. Grimy assumes 550 max hit on rapier. 550 x 25 hits/min x 60 mins = 825000 possible damage per hour not 1,171. If max damage on one hit is 550 then 1,171 in one hour means that the rapier only hits 2.13 times in an hour.

it would seem you got trolled by somebody who input a target of 100,000 effective defense into my spreadsheet.

Oh wait, was that you?

No, it wasn't me. Someone put in invalid data and I pointed it out.

 

However, I would appreciate any input you may have including the formulas you used for your spread sheets.

 

Thanks,

 

Ren

its not invalid and I already pointed out that his spreadsheets are open source.

Omg I give up, maybe if we ignore this guy he will sto posting. Its funny how everyone in the thread is against him yet he still thinks it he is right. Idc anymore anyway I'm just gonna watch from now on. He just needs to know he isn't convincing anyone.

No one has been able to demonstrate a valid reason as to why you think the rapier is better than the cls, either mathematically or logically.

The point of my earlier numbers which you seem to be avoiding is that against essentially infinite (100000) defense, in maxed gear, etc, etc, the chaotic rapier will have a higher DPS then the chaotic long. This means that in ANY situation where the monster has equal or approximately equal defense against stab and slash, the rapier is ALWAYS better.

So cmaul is better than long, so stop going around yapping about how long is the best weapon. And name me one monster that is weak to slash. Cmaul is better than longsword, there is no monster weak to slash. I have defeated you using your trolling logic.

No, again you jump to a false conclusion.

 

Remember, that cls is also stronger in stab than the rapier.

lmfao trolled.

The point of my earlier numbers which you seem to be avoiding is that against essentially infinite (100000) defense, in maxed gear, etc, etc, the chaotic rapier will have a higher DPS then the chaotic long. This means that in ANY situation where the monster has equal or approximately equal defense against stab and slash, the rapier is ALWAYS better.

The only thing that you demonstrated was that you used false data for your computations which I caught immediately. You entered the strength and attk bonuses on the cls and the rapier as being equal, and the only difference you had between the two was the better speed on the rapier. Without even crunching the numbers you can conclude that two weapons with equal str and attk but where one is faster, the faster weapon would do more damage.

 

However, as I have stated several times now, you falsified data and came up with a false conclusion. The only thing you have demonstrated is your lack on ethics and integrity. You have totally discredited and discounted yourself.

[Aiel]

So cmaul is better than long, so stop going around yapping about how long is the best weapon. And name me one monster that is weak to slash. Cmaul is better than longsword, there is no monster weak to slash. I have defeated you using your trolling logic.

No, again you jump to a false conclusion.

 

Remember, that cls is also stronger in stab than the rapier.

lmfao trolled.

The point of my earlier numbers which you seem to be avoiding is that against essentially infinite (100000) defense, in maxed gear, etc, etc, the chaotic rapier will have a higher DPS then the chaotic long. This means that in ANY situation where the monster has equal or approximately equal defense against stab and slash, the rapier is ALWAYS better.

The only thing that you demonstrated was that you used false data for your computations which I caught immediately. You entered the strength and attk bonuses on the cls and the rapier as being equal, and the only difference you had between the two was the better speed on the rapier. Without even crunching the numbers you can conclude that two weapons with equal str and attk but where one is faster, the faster weapon would do more damage.

 

However, as I have stated several times now, you falsified data and came up with a false conclusion. The only thing you have demonstrated is your lack on ethics and integrity. You have totally discredited and discounted yourself.

the link gives you the default entries, you need to input the values your self.

I'll redo it to make you happy.

values used:

attack level: 125

strength level: 125

combat style: agressive

attack prayer: 29.1% (turmoil)

strength prayer: 32.9% (turmoil)

target defense level: 100,000

 

rapier:

speed: 6

attack bonus: 153

strength bonus: 136

damage per hour: 1171

 

longsword:

speed: 5

attack bonus: 176

strength bonus: 155

damage per hour: 1130

 

so much for my false numbers.

[Renshae]

Why would you want the formula? We already done tests of cls vs crapier using his formulas, and the rapier generally won. According to you any calculation that puts the rapier as superior is wrong, therefore you are asking for a formula that you believe is invalid.

I put forth my formula. Since you are unwilling to put forth a formula either, you know that it is false or you had no formula. You general lack of open mindedness, your obvious bias, the fact that you have intentionally falsified data to make your spread sheet work, you inability to even use correct grammar "We already DONE the tests.." and sweeping generalities like "the rapier GENERALLY won." lead me to believe that as you have no concept of the scientific method, statistics in general, mathematics in general, unbiased empirical data and furthermore you and several people on here have deomonstrated that you are willing to put forth fraudalent data to further your own prejudices, biases and presuppositions regardless of what the truth may or may not be.

 

You have discreted and discounted yourself and any statements and/or hypothesis you have put forward.

[Aiel]

Why would you want the formula? We already done tests of cls vs crapier using his formulas, and the rapier generally won. According to you any calculation that puts the rapier as superior is wrong, therefore you are asking for a formula that you believe is invalid.

You have discreted and discounted yourself and any statements and/or hypothesis you have put forward.

ICWUTUDIDTHAR

 

also,

1. as I have said the spreadsheet I linked you to IS OPEN SOURCE YOU CAN SEE OUR FORMULA.

2. the numbers I used are not incorrect.

3. "the rapier generally won" is refering to the fact that on a monster much weaker to slash then stab, the longsword will perform better.

4. fraudulent data, right.

[ghjkl]

Your formula is a idk how to say it on the forum

You first give the cls a dps higher than possible after what you call a accuracy boost.

You ignore potions, prayer, and equipment because apparently people don't use them when training or boss hunting.

You assume accuracy is directly porportional to equipment bonuses. If rapier hits 90% of the time on a chicken, does a longsword hit 130%?

Look back 10 pages or so if you want to see the calculations.

[Renshae]

If anyone with max melee stats, would like to do valid tests with the rapier vs the cls in the duel arena no arm, no pray, no pots, no other modifiers I would be willing to assist in said trials.

 

Sadly though, I am quickly coming to the conclusion that no one on this thread really has any desire to know the truth.

[Aiel]

If anyone with max melee stats, would like to do valid tests with the rapier vs the cls in the duel arena no arm, no pray, no pots, no other modifiers I would be willing to assist in said trials.

 

Sadly though, I am quickly coming to the conclusion that no one on this thread really has any desire to know the truth.

the only one with no desire to know the truth is you m8.

[ghjkl]

Because we already know the truth.

Why would you have no equipment no pray no pots?

Rapier gets more of a boost from them because it is faster.

Are you saying you pk only wearing long and don't pray or pot?

[SirIzenhime]

If anyone with max melee stats, would like to do valid tests with the rapier vs the cls in the duel arena no arm, no pray, no pots, no other modifiers I would be willing to assist in said trials.

 

Sadly though, I am quickly coming to the conclusion that no one on this thread really has any desire to know the truth.

 

The reason no one will do that is because there is NO situation other then the duel arena where you wouldn't be using stat boosting gear/potions/prayer. Why would you do that? It's idiotic.

 

Honestly though, just out of pure boredom, I'll do it if you want. My RS name is the same as here.

[Renshae]

Your formula is a idk how to say it on the forum

You first give the cls a dps higher than possible after what you call a accuracy boost.

You ignore potions, prayer, and equipment because apparently people don't use them when training or boss hunting.

You assume accuracy is directly porportional to equipment bonuses. If rapier hits 90% of the time on a chicken, does a longsword hit 130%?

Look back 10 pages or so if you want to see the calculations.

As I explained earlier, I did not calculate DPS, I calculated damage efficiency ratios. It does not matter if you calculate the rapier at an accuracy factor of 1.0 and the cls at 1.14 OR if you use .86 for the rapier and 1.0 for the cls. The efficiency ratios still come out the same. The cls in stab mode is still 1.6% better and in slash mode it is 41 or 42% better.

 

You really don't get this math and statistics stuff do you?

 

btw, dps in COD or Modern warfare are easier to calculate since the only variables are how much damage is done per hit and how many shots per second are made.

 

You really can't figure dps on Runescape because each hit is variable based upon random number generators within a given range. i.e.

 

I shoot weapon A in COD or Mod warfare and it does 10 points damage. I can shoot 10 times in a second therefore weapon A has a DPS of 100.

 

However, in rune scape Weapon A might hit 0 or it may hit 500. It can hit once in every 3 seconds...what is its dps? We really cannot predict that since the amount of damage it does is variable. The only way to calculate it, is to assume that hypothetically it will hit it's max of 500 each time. Either that, or use a mean value of 250.

 

Even if we were to use a mean value of between 0 and max hit for the cls and rapier, the mean value for the cls would still be higher than the mean value for the rapier. The out come would still be that my calculations, whether we use the max hit value or the mean hit value, and so long as the rapier is 25% faster, and the cls hits 11% more accurately on stab and 59% more accurately on slash, are still valid calculations.

[ghjkl]

Rapier will wreck anyway in this inaccurate test. The fact that you are wearing no armour benefits rapier more than long.

[Renshae]

If anyone with max melee stats, would like to do valid tests with the rapier vs the cls in the duel arena no arm, no pray, no pots, no other modifiers I would be willing to assist in said trials.

 

Sadly though, I am quickly coming to the conclusion that no one on this thread really has any desire to know the truth.

 

The reason no one will do that is because there is NO situation other then the duel arena where you wouldn't be using stat boosting gear/potions/prayer. Why would you do that? It's idiotic.

 

Honestly though, just out of pure boredom, I'll do it if you want. My RS name is the same as here.

The stat boosts would be the same if you both used the same gear/options/prayer. Because the stat boosts would be the same we can do the trials with out them since they would have the same effects.

 

Cool, you have same stats as me though.

 

I'll look you up. I'm honestly curious.