Efficiency

[Sir_Kurity]

And yes, pure efficiency takes into account gp/xp/time. If it takes you 50 hours to get 99 RC ZMI, and you profit 1m, 70 hours to 99 graahking, and you profit 6m, then you can factor out which is more efficient, depending on your other top money makers. You can easily find out whether or not it is efficient. There is no possible way you can argue against that with any credibility. In this example, if you can make more then 7m in 20 hours, or 350k gp/hr, then ZMI would be the more efficient choice.

 

Yea but im sure your numbers are way off.

[Obtaurian]

And yes, pure efficiency takes into account gp/xp/time. If it takes you 50 hours to get 99 RC ZMI, and you profit 1m, 70 hours to 99 graahking, and you profit 6m, then you can factor out which is more efficient, depending on your other top money makers. You can easily find out whether or not it is efficient. There is no possible way you can argue against that with any credibility. In this example, if you can make more then 7m in 20 hours, or 350k gp/hr, then ZMI would be the more efficient choice.

 

Yea but im sure your numbers are way off.

 

But his point stands, regardless.

[Sir_Kurity]

And yes, pure efficiency takes into account gp/xp/time. If it takes you 50 hours to get 99 RC ZMI, and you profit 1m, 70 hours to 99 graahking, and you profit 6m, then you can factor out which is more efficient, depending on your other top money makers. You can easily find out whether or not it is efficient. There is no possible way you can argue against that with any credibility. In this example, if you can make more then 7m in 20 hours, or 350k gp/hr, then ZMI would be the more efficient choice.

 

Yea but im sure your numbers are way off.

 

But his point stands, regardless.

 

His point was the same as my point, it depends on your other money makers.

 

Really i think hes just going off on a rant because i forgot to read the bottom half of his post. :unsure:

[Jehosaphat]

This thread, for some reason, is STILL funny. Then again, maybe it's because I see any page-long arguments as hiding subliminal messages. :P

 

I still think that it should be let everyone go their own way - both those who prefer to train in the most efficient way possible to get to the fun stuff, those who find joy in the training itself, or those who find joy in training the most efficient way possible. Some enjoy the journey, and thus make it longer; some enjoy the destination, and thus make the journey shorter; some enjoy watching the sights of the journey whizz by, and thus also make it shorter.

You ask for advice regarding a specific "destination" (i.e. goal, level, XP amount, w/e) and it is presumed that you are aimed toward achieving the destination instead of enjoying the journey.

 

Anything I missed?

[Pinata]

I'm not good at efficiency, I got over 150+ Days played, since 2005, and I just recently got 70+ Skills. What bothers me is most efficient players miss out on a lot of RS. If you look at the best players with the most XP, they often are not ranked or very low rank in most of the minigames. But its your choice what do on RS, so if you don't enjoy minigames, then don't play them, but they're super fun.

[xpx]

@XPX You are very contradictory first stating efficiency is the fastest method, then youre stating its not always doing things the fastest method. Youre tying yourself up in knots on this. Youre also trying to factor in subjectivity with efficiency. The two dont necessarily marry. I could be do anything in the shortest possible time and achieve it, but, I can hate it. Im being efficient that way, but do not enjoy it. I dont play a game in order to hate it because guys like you tell me that it is how it should be played.

This is the problem with you not understanding efficiency- it is still always the fastest method, but as your goal can vary, efficiency chances too. The efficient method is the fastest method for that specific person that it is found to be efficient, but not for anyone else, thus, it will achieve this persons goals the fastest, but not necessarily anyone elses. Why don't efficiency and subjectivity go together? Things might be subjective between one-another, but not for a single individual, for whom efficiency is calculated. Thus, when you can objectively estimate values for subjective parameters and mix them into an efficiency equation, the method that will be the best will account for it. Thus, it is possible to incorporate things like enjoyability and clicking tension into an efficiency calculation, and if you want absolute efficiency, you have to do that.

 

If you hate training in an efficient way then there are two likely problems- either you didn't account for enjoyability in your choice of methods or the time it takes with a more enjoyable method is far higher than of this specific method. Thus, if it's the second choice, it likely means that there is absolutely no enjoyable way of training that specific skill, and getting it out of the way very fast is the efficient thing to do. Not everything can be enjoyable, but if you use a very fast method for the skills you hate, you save time to enjoy the skills you love. If you hate the method very hard, efficiency would dictate that you shouldn't train it at all, thus making the game more enjoyable.

 

Efficiency being the best way to play this game has nothing to do with telling people how they should play a game. This thread isn't about telling other people how to play, but if they wonder how other people can be better than them spending less time playing the game, efficiency is the answer.

[PereGrin]

I'm not good at efficiency, I got over 150+ Days played, since 2005, and I just recently got 70+ Skills. What bothers me is most efficient players miss out on a lot of RS. If you look at the best players with the most XP, they often are not ranked or very low rank in most of the minigames. But its your choice what do on RS, so if you don't enjoy minigames, then don't play them, but they're super fun.

I have to agree with you on this. Minigames are awesome. I personally love Barbarian Assault.

[Guest jrhairychest]

@Ampharos

Again I agree. The trouble is there are many posters on here who define themselves as efficient. I want to find out why they think they are but not many want to discuss it, or in some cases cannot seem to justify why.

 

@ Stonewall

Wow. You complain of trolling then immediately attack me with personal insults in the same sentence:

I think you are trolling more by being an idiot, but I might be mistaken and you just are incapable of understanding. You've been given the benefit of the doubt long enough. You continue to confuse separate factors.

 

Or this

are you that incredibly thick

 

Quality, real quality fellas.

 

I have to continually ask for proof because neither is forthcoming, and stating I dont need those is being honest, not trolling. I must remember I am efficient because I said so is perfectly acceptable so I can pretty much claim anything I want without having to justify any of it.

 

Your claims to have done firemaking by magic logs are very suss too. Who in their right mind would take 50m and invest it in a firemaking cape when you could have invested that in a cape with much more kudos? Your combat skills are excellent but most of your other skills arent that great. This seems to be the same case with Obtaurian below. Youre just not being truthful to try tip things in your own favour.

 

@Obtaurian

Apologies for my ignorance for 2 reasons. Firstly, for assuming you were after visage drops when the money was elsewhere. Good point well made. One thing puzzles me though, is that if you were raking in all these millions how come you have stated Bladewing would make it faster due to his far superior gear? These things just arent tallying up as youre talking like youre minted or money is so easy to get for you.

 

Secondly for assuming that youd actually practised what you preached and actually got 99 firemaking using that method. In fact, most of your buyable skills arent great, herblore excepted. Great preaching but please actually do it before you tell me how efficient you are. There is a difference between could do it and actually doing it. I can make statements such as this but Id be a liar as Id never do that. You are right there is no point in giving me any more info as theres not much youd be able to tell me. Disappointing.

 

Bladewing has not yet stated he would spend this type of money on a skill either but he is in a much better position to talk about such things as hes actually 99d these things and you...havent.

 

@Bladewing

You have stated my first post said that i am primarily concerned with speed and now youre stating that your primary concern is fun dictates my gameplay first and foremost. This is why youre not being clear, not me being thick. You chop and change your mind, just like your tag-team posters, to suit whats going on in the thread.

 

Looking at your stats you have taken the time to 99 many of your skills so at least you can put your money where your mouth is, unlike your two little followers. Be honest, did you actually 99 firemaking with magic logs and if you did at what cost?

 

On a final note, I wouldnt mind you calling me thick if I really was but this is another case sheer irony. At least be in a position to call me that by attempting to use correct punctuation and grammar.

 

@XPX

Efficiency and subjectivity can go together nicely, but not according to your original statements, which you clearly stated if we were not being efficient then that was it we were playing it wrong. You seem to have changed your approach somewhat since then and agree that subjectivity plays a major part. I agree.

 

However, with the game the way it is now there are various methods to train every skill that should suit everyone. Jagex has done a very good job in skill variation for the most part that should suit most players. It should not really come down to a choice of blasting a skill as fast as possible because a player hates it, so they try to get through it as quickly as possible so I disagree with your stance on this. Your definition of true efficiency is true if applied to other areas such as jobs or machine processes but in a game it should take a second seat to the enjoyment factor of playing the game itself. In the end its you get out of it that counts.

[Obtaurian]

@Obtaurian

Apologies for my ignorance for 2 reasons. Firstly, for assuming you were after visage drops when the money was elsewhere. Good point well made. One thing puzzles me though, is that if you were raking in all these millions how come you have stated Bladewing would make it faster due to his far superior gear? These things just arent tallying up as youre talking like youre minted or money is so easy to get for you.

 

Bladewing has better gear, therefore he can kill stuff faster than me. I don't see how hard that is to understand. If he's killing TDs faster than me, he's making more money than me.

 

Secondly for assuming that youd actually practised what you preached and actually got 99 firemaking using that method. In fact, most of your buyable skills arent great, herblore excepted. Great preaching but please actually do it before you tell me how efficient you are. There is a difference between could do it and actually doing it. I can make statements such as this but Id be a liar as Id never do that. You are right there is no point in giving me any more info as theres not much youd be able to tell me. Disappointing.

 

Firemaking was just an example. :rolleyes: It doesn't somehow diminish the point. Since when does a person have to have the stats to talk about the skill? Regardless of my slayer level, I can tell you that using turmoil on every task is efficient. Regardless of my herblore level, I can tell you that stewing to overloads and making them from level 91/92-99 is the most efficient way to get 99. Everyone has access to this information, so anyone who knows it has every right to tell others about it.

[Jehosaphat]

And once again, I am blatantly ignored. :thumbup:

[PereGrin]

[hide]

@Ampharos

Again I agree. The trouble is there are many posters on here who define themselves as ‘efficient’. I want to find out why they think they are but not many want to discuss it, or in some cases cannot seem to justify why.

 

@ Stonewall

Wow. You complain of trolling then immediately attack me with personal insults in the same sentence:

I think you are trolling more by being an idiot, but I might be mistaken and you just are incapable of understanding. You've been given the benefit of the doubt long enough. You continue to confuse separate factors.

 

Or this

are you that incredibly thick

 

Quality, real quality fellas.

 

I have to continually ask for proof because neither is forthcoming, and stating “I don’t need those” is being honest, not trolling. I must remember ‘I am efficient because I said so’ is perfectly acceptable so I can pretty much claim anything I want without having to justify any of it.

 

Your claims to have done firemaking by magic logs are very suss too. Who in their right mind would take 50m and invest it in a firemaking cape when you could have invested that in a cape with much more kudos? Your combat skills are excellent but most of your other skills aren’t ‘that’ great. This seems to be the same case with Obtaurian below. You’re just not being truthful to try tip things in your own favour.

 

@Obtaurian

Apologies for my ignorance for 2 reasons. Firstly, for assuming you were after visage drops when the money was elsewhere. Good point well made. One thing puzzles me though, is that if you were raking in all these millions how come you have stated ‘Bladewing would make it faster due to his far superior gear’? These things just aren’t tallying up as you’re talking like you’re minted or money is so easy to get for you.

 

Secondly for assuming that you’d actually practised what you preached and actually got 99 firemaking using that method. In fact, most of your buyable skills aren’t great, herblore excepted. Great preaching but please actually do it before you tell me how efficient you are. There is a difference between ‘could’ do it and actually doing it. I can make statements such as this but I’d be a liar as I’d never do that. You are right there is no point in giving me any more info as there’s not much you’d be able to tell me. Disappointing.

 

Bladewing has not yet stated he ‘would’ spend this type of money on a skill either but he is in a much better position to talk about such things as he’s actually 99’d these things and you...haven’t.

 

@Bladewing

You have stated ‘my first post said that i am primarily concerned with speed’ and now you’re stating that your primary concern is ‘fun dictates my gameplay first and foremost’. This is why you’re not being clear, not me being thick. You chop and change your mind, just like your tag-team posters, to suit what’s going on in the thread.

 

Looking at your stats you have taken the time to 99 many of your skills so at least you can put your money where your mouth is, unlike your two little followers. Be honest, did you actually 99 firemaking with magic logs and if you did at what cost?

 

On a final note, I wouldn’t mind you calling me thick if I really was but this is another case sheer irony. At least be in a position to call me that by attempting to use correct punctuation and grammar.

 

@XPX

Efficiency and subjectivity can go together nicely, but not according to your original statements, which you clearly stated if we were not being efficient then that was it we were playing it wrong. You seem to have changed your approach somewhat since then and agree that subjectivity plays a major part. I agree.

 

However, with the game the way it is now there are various methods to train every skill that should suit everyone. Jagex has done a very good job in skill variation for the most part that should suit most players. It should not really come down to a choice of blasting a skill as fast as possible because a player hates it, so they try to get through it as quickly as possible so I disagree with your stance on this. Your definition of true efficiency is true if applied to other areas such as jobs or machine processes but in a game it should take a second seat to the enjoyment factor of playing the game itself. In the end it’s you get out of it that counts.

[/hide]

 

If you knew what you were talking about, it might go farther to make your case. As it is, you come across as just blowing hot air.

 

1. Firemaking was an example. (probably a bad one for you, seeing as you seem to have trouble understanding things)

 

2. Quoting short snippets and drawing conclusions from them is a logical fallacy. You need to work on your reading comprehension. This will allow you to understand things longer then 4 words.

 

3. You said

 

Who in their right mind would take 50m and invest it in a firemaking cape...assuming that you’d actually practised what you preached and actually got 99 firemaking [@obtaurian]

 

Although for all your nitpicking on verbage, you seem to have missed the fact that Obtaurian said it "would" be more efficient for him to use magic logs. This is the future tense here, implying something that has not yet happened. "You are an idiot" and "You were trolling" are examples of present and past tense respectively. Also, bladewing did say he would use magic logs, but you, in your infinite lack of reading comprehension, seemed to have missed it. No surprise there.

 

4. You said

 

Quality, real quality fellas.

 

You insult them for insulting you. You are a hypocrite.

 

5. Obtaurian is easily able to rake in the millions at frost dragons. It is very easy. However, while Obtaurian has very good gear, there is a huge difference between very good, and the absolute best gear. If you actually knew anything about people on these forums, you would understand this. The difference between good gear, and the best gear possible is roughly 600m.

 

6. Again, you misquoted someone. Now this one is actually hilarious. You said

 

@Bladewing

You have stated ‘my first post said that i am primarily concerned with speed’ and now you’re stating that your primary concern is ‘fun dictates my gameplay first and foremost’. This is why you’re not being clear, not me being thick. You chop and change your mind, just like your tag-team posters, to suit what’s going on in the thread.

 

But in a previous post bladewing says:

I think it's awesome and cool to kill things fast. which is more fun - to kill 500 monsters an hour or 50? i think 500.

 

And you actually misquote him later (surprise surprise) saying:

 

@bladewing – So, 90% of the time the fastest way coincides with the efficient way. So this is not letting time dictate your game to get through it faster?

 

So, you actually read his post, misquoted him, and now you cannot make the connections and follow his logic because you have proved your understanding of what he is saying is skewed and incorrect at best.

 

I would maybe think you might be a politician, but they are far and away better at this then you are. So apparently, you have no hope of making it.

 

Now, please do misquote me. The others will understand what I am saying, but I don't actually expect you to read this far, nor do I expect you to understand anything I said. As my expectations are low, you have the perfect chance to spend one game tick thinking about things, and suddenly it will all become clear. This would actually surprise me, as opposed to being boring and predictable.

[Obtaurian]

=D>

[Quyneax]

=D>

[Guest jrhairychest]

@Obtaurian

So in reality youre not making all these mills to buy the best gear? By the way you were talking you give the impression youre raking it in. Guess not then. Question Any reason youre doing Frosties for bones anyway? Wouldnt lower level drags be quicker to kill for the same bones?

 

As far as your firemaking example is concerned, anyone can make those sorts of statements. Easy ones to make but you dont exactly follow what you say.

 

@Peregrin

It isnt difficult to ascertain that you are part of this little crew as you all seem to going for the same herblore cape.

 

1) Firemaking is a very good example if it is followed. But its not its just a statement referred to which anyone can make.

2) You obviously have a problem if I point out when one of your friends says something then something else, then something else again. They should either think more about what they say or keep their mouths closed.

3) My apologies. I should remember that I should take the lead from you guys and BS more about what I could do against the reality of what really goes on. Must remember to mine rune all the way to 99 too.

4) Take a look at your statement again and show me where I have insulted them. I just give friendly pieces of advice such as people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Its ok for them to insult me is it?

5) If Obtaurian is making the mills he claims to make, he should have the same gear. According to him its around 50m for 12 hours game time so he should well have some good stuff by now.

6) In case you hadnt noticed first its fun, then its speed then its fun. Blade states that time does not dictate his game but clearly it does. He just doesnt want to admit it.

 

Peregrin, you can make all the statements about me you wish. If your buddies cant handle posts and throw insults on their own its their own problem. It just shows how weak some posters are. Who is actually the organ grinder and who are the monkeys in this crew?

[Obtaurian]

@Obtaurian

So in reality you’re not making all these mills to buy ‘the best gear’? By the way you were talking you give the impression you’re raking it in. Guess not then. Question – Any reason you’re doing Frosties for bones anyway? Wouldn’t lower level drags be quicker to kill for the same bones?

 

As far as your firemaking example is concerned, anyone can make those sorts of statements. Easy ones to make but you don’t exactly follow what you say.

 

LOL, how long has it been since you've played? Bladewing has better gear than me for a variety of reasons, but if we had the same exact gear and were making money the same way (TDs, let's say), we would be making the same amount of money on average. You're inferring some pretty odd things from my posts.

 

Frost dragons drop frost bones, hence why they're the best dragon to kill for money.

 

EDIT: Frankly, I'm tired of replying to you. I feel like I'm explaining astrophysics to a child. Go educate yourself on modern moneymaking, gear, etc, then we'll have a conversation. If you still don't understand, then God help you.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Don’t assume that everyone has the same knowledge in the game about everything. For a start I admit I’m not good at dungeoneering nor do I do it often. Same with combat as for me it’s not the be all and end all. I can only go off what you say and how much money you state you’re capable of making. You make a lot of statements about ‘could’ so I spose I should take a lot of what you say with a pinch of salt really.

 

Now, did you want to borrow a couple of hundred mill from this inefficient, uneducated ‘child’ towards your gear or you want me to flog the red mask as well for cash to make it nearer 400mill? If you want me to start flogging items then who knows eh? ;)

[Obtaurian]

Dont assume that everyone has the same knowledge in the game about everything. For a start I admit Im not good at dungeoneering nor do I do it often. Same with combat as for me its not the be all and end all. I can only go off what you say and how much money you state youre capable of making. You make a lot of statements about could so I spose I should take a lot of what you say with a pinch of salt really.

 

Now, did you want to borrow a couple of hundred mill from this inefficient, uneducated child towards your gear or you want me to flog the red mask as well for cash to make it nearer 400mill? If you want me to start flogging items then who knows eh? ;)

 

The problem is that you're extrapolating some pretty wild things. I say that Bladewing and I can make about the same amount of money MHing, but he has better gear so he can make money faster. You interpret that as "Obtaurian has lesser gear, therefore he's lying about being able to make money." That's a ridiculous inference to make.

 

All of your arguments are based on your misinterpretations of what your opponents are saying, as Pere told you. Why are you the only one who has a hard time understanding such simple concepts and arguments? That's usually a surefire sign of trolling.

[SirIzenhime]

Now, did you want to borrow a couple of hundred mill from this inefficient, uneducated child towards your gear or you want me to flog the red mask as well for cash to make it nearer 400mill? If you want me to start flogging items then who knows eh? ;)

 

I'm surprised it took him this long to use items he has as an argument.

[Jehosaphat]

I'm thinking we all just got trolled real gud.

[Troacctid]

That's usually a surefire sign of trolling.

Yeah, not surprising, seeing as he's a known troll. :ugeek:

[Obtaurian]

That's usually a surefire sign of trolling.

Yeah, not surprising, seeing as he's a known troll. :ugeek:

 

I should just listen to you more often. :(

[PereGrin]

[hide]

@Obtaurian

So in reality you’re not making all these mills to buy ‘the best gear’? By the way you were talking you give the impression you’re raking it in. Guess not then. Question – Any reason you’re doing Frosties for bones anyway? Wouldn’t lower level drags be quicker to kill for the same bones?

 

As far as your firemaking example is concerned, anyone can make those sorts of statements. Easy ones to make but you don’t exactly follow what you say.

 

@Peregrin

It isn’t difficult to ascertain that you are part of this little crew as you all seem to going for the same herblore cape.

 

1) Firemaking is a very good example ‘if’ it is followed. But it’s not it’s just a statement referred to which anyone can make.

2) You obviously have a problem if I point out when one of your friends says something then something else, then something else again. They should either think more about what they say or keep their mouths closed.

3) My apologies. I should remember that I should take the lead from you guys and BS more about what I ‘could’ do against the reality of what really goes on. Must remember to mine rune all the way to 99 too.

4) Take a look at your statement again and show me where I have insulted them. I just give friendly pieces of advice such as ‘people who live in glass houses should not throw stones’. Its ok for them to insult me is it?

5) If Obtaurian is making the mills he claims to make, he should have the same gear. According to him it’s around 50m for 12 hours game time so he should well have some good stuff by now.

6) In case you hadn’t noticed first it’s fun, then its speed then its fun. Blade states that time does not dictate his game but clearly it does. He just doesn’t want to admit it.

 

Peregrin, you can make all the statements about me you wish. If your buddies can’t handle posts and throw insults on their own its their own problem. It just shows how weak some posters are. Who is actually the organ grinder and who are the monkeys in this crew?

[/hide]

 

 

Well lets get started shall we. I do not know Obtaurian or Bladewing anywhere from on these forums. I have not even seen either of them in game. I got 95 herblore not because I wanted the cape, or anything like that. I wanted extreme potions and overloads. And then there was a bonus xp weekend, and I already had 90% of the supplies for 90-95 herblore in my bank.

 

But it’s not it’s just a statement referred to which anyone can make.

At least be in a position to call me that by attempting to use correct punctuation and grammar.

 

Proof read please.

 

Now, before we go farther,

 

Efficiency is not always the best method, particularly if it’s the wrong method for the player. I got 99 agil through using brimhaven a few hours a night with another bunch of mad but fun players. Had great fun, got 99 and didn’t try to kill myself doing ape atoll or wherever and having an ultra boring time. Sure it took a while, but I was in no rush. Again, I have achieved the same as someone who did ape atoll lapping....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I’m not bothered if people look on me differently or don’t share my beliefs. I’m my own man which is better than following the flock anytime.

THIS IS IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE BEEN ARGUING AGAINST!

 

From the beginning, this is what Xpx, Bladewing, Obtaurian, Stonewall337, and I, have been saying.

 

Bladewing has said from the start that he plays this game for fun. There are even some quotes of his in some peoples signatures floating around here that say as much. It really isn't such a huge mental leap to understand that if he plays this game to have fun, and if he enjoys doing things very quickly, then for him to have fun, he is going to do things really quickly. I believe he only told you this 2 or 3 times though, so you might have missed it when you quoted him saying it.

 

In a nutshell, if Fun=Fast, then by definition, Play Fast=More Fun. Extra time is a simple byproduct.

 

This is Runescape we are talking about. An MMORPG. You do not save time by playing an MMORPG. Rather, you spend large amounts of it for zero measurable gain.

 

Obtaurian is making the mils he claims to make. He is also spending them. Buying items before levels is pointless, because you need to be able to do certain things before you can actually use items in the most efficient manner. It is pointless to use a Divine if you are 80 melees, with 65 defense and 70 prayer and super sets. At that level, the Divine is doing nothing more then looking pretty on your pixelated left arm.

 

You are an efficient player, whether you like it or not. You got 99 agility in a way that maximized the enjoyment you get from the game. If you would prefer to get 99 fming on maples, because you love lighting logs, then do it. But Obtaurian does not enjoy lighting logs, so why should he spend lots of time doing something he doesn't like, instead of doing it the way that allows him to enjoy the game. (here's a hint, read: Had great fun, got 99 and didn’t try to kill myself doing ape atoll or wherever and having an ultra boring time.)

 

Nothing more needs to be said. The rest is your own personal problem, and you already have the information needed to solve it.

 

EDIT: Yeah, Troacctid, you are a wise TIFer

 

Oh, and tyvm for the applause Obt. :D

[Assume Nothing]

Let's just accept that jrhairychest is incredibly dumb and refuses to accept that people do play for fun whilst being efficient (or he's just a really obvious troll).

 

Remind me, what are we arguing about? Efficiency isn't a problem, anti efficiency is.

[Troacctid]

Let's just accept that jrhairychest is incredibly dumb and refuses to accept that people do play for fun whilst being efficient (or he's just a really obvious troll).

Yeah, it's that second one. The one in parenthesis. Trust me on this one.

 

Just ignore him.

[Guest jrhairychest]

@Obtaurian

You boast somewhat about your efficient gameplay and how much you make in 12 hours then state ‘well actually I don’t have super gear because I don’t earn as much as someone else’. Contradictory to say the least. You all act like children when someone disagrees or requires elaboration on an aspect (you know, what debate actually is).

 

I’m not misinterpreting anything, just the facts you give. That’s why I ask for elaboration. Instead you bring in your buddies and start pack-hunts, whinge, sulk and persistently flame.

 

Oh and is Bladewing the organ grinder in your crew?

 

@SirIzenhime

No, people assume I’m uneducated just because I play the game my own way and don’t view combat as the be-all and end-all.

 

@Miss Marple

As usual just jumps into a debate and contributes nothing except ‘Ders dat Troll’. That’s trolling in itself. Oh yes......that’s right we crossed swords a little while ago. I believe the forum mod slapped us BOTH on the wrist and removed BOTH our posts...or did you forget? Again, grow up.

 

@PereGrin

Try reading the thread again and check out the parts where we have a group who are pro-efficiency then don’t want to state exactly why. It’s not a hard question is it? Well, it seems players want to claim pro-efficiency without much of an elaboration on ‘why’ they are. If their methods are superior then elighten us all.

 

I’m not arguing for efficiency or against it, I just want to know ‘Why’. Is this an alien concept to you too or are you not your own man enough to ask ‘well actually, why are/aren’t players efficient in these areas’? Follow the crowd if you want and just accept blindly what you are told without thinking about it. I’ll be my own man thanks. Players were also asked if they define their game in terms of gold/xp/time. In some cases they do but don't want to admit it. Oh and my grammar looks fine but quite amusing that a player calls me thick when they can’t string a sentence together properly.

I like this statement you made as it stands out:

 

You are an efficient player, whether you like it or not. You got 99 agility in a way that maximized the enjoyment you get from the game. If you would prefer to get 99 fming on maples, because you love lighting logs, then do it. But Obtaurian does not enjoy lighting logs, so why should he spend lots of time doing something he doesn't like, instead of doing it the way that allows him to enjoy the game. (here's a hint, read: Had great fun, got 99 and didn’t try to kill myself doing ape atoll or wherever and having an ultra boring time.)

 

No problem with anyone doing their own thing there and if that was it I would give it the thumbs up. It’s when players decide to make bold statements by stating ‘I could do magic logs to 99 and be ultimately efficient’ or ‘I am efficient because I kill things fast but my mate is still efficient even though he kills slower’ without any form of elaboration. I will challenge that. I do not like lighting logs either but I can’t justify the 54m on a skill I consider quite trivial. I will also challenge statements that depict a player is being totally inefficient if they were not doing anything the fastest way possible, initially posted by XPX. I disagreed and challenged the viewpoint.

 

You know, debate, challenging peoples viewpoints and statements? I am not here ‘trolling’ as you put it, but I’m quite amazed at just how yourself and your packhunting buddies feel that calling me things like ‘thick’ and ‘idiot’ are acceptable then have the audacity to call me for trolling. Pot and kettle spring to mind. You’d do well to remember that. Speaking of which:

 

Let's just accept that jrhairychest is incredibly dumb and refuses to accept that people do play for fun whilst being efficient (or he's just a really obvious troll).

Remind me, what are we arguing about? Efficiency isn't a problem, anti efficiency is.

Hmmmmm.........You were saying about trolling PereGrin? Doesn't exactly help your cause here.