Dungeoneering's Impact on the Community at Large

[NukeMarine]

Pardon my naivety, but I assume there'd be a good or great set of youtube videos that illustrate the best ways to do dungeoneering floors, bosses, support, keying, etc. Wouldn't that alleviate a bit of the noob training factor? Yeah, there's the actual practice runs, but seeing what to do is bound to do more than just talking in chat.

[ghjkl]

No because noobs dont want to finish dungeons fast, they only care that they dont die

[stonewall337]

Problem is, people are far less "loyal" or comunial in gameplay in RS then they are in other gmes, such as WoW. In WoW, you have a guild that you raid/ do 5mans with, or you can do PUG groups. You raid with those people, learning from/with them andgetting to know each other better. RS doesn't have that. Part of it is not enough ppl use voice chat in rs. really helps to get to know ppl.

[Pinata]

I'm glad I started the skill before occults came out, always had access to really fast teams, considering I've been in the top 1000 since the release. I would go for 200m, but I want to max first so I can just do some crazy keying and Primal binds.

[Youmu]

No because noobs dont want to finish dungeons fast, they only care that they dont die

This is exactly the kind of mindset that randoms need to steer away from. Who cares if you die? It's not like its' the end of the world. I personally never eat in dungeons and don't give a [cabbage] even though I die like 7 times a large lol.

 

Sure, you might want to pick up some food drops in case you're low health. But that doesn't mean going to the fullest extremes (making full sets of armor, cooking full inventory of morays + worldbearer). If you are going to do so make sure it doesn't slow the floor down. Most of the time it does, which is why it is frowned upon.

 

Problem is how are we supposed to convince to the general masses that deaths are beneficial and not as bad as they seem?

[Erewhon2]

I am proud of the fact that I have achieved level 63 Dungeoneering purely by 'Tears of Guthix'! I have had a small attempt at playing it with one other person. And even then I had to explore every room thoroughly and fight everything....its in my nature lol :roll:

 

I have no interest in large team games, I am a solo or duo player in all aspects of RS. I don't even belong to a clan *shock, horror* do I hear a huge intake of breath? I have accepted that most mini games on RS will never be a gaming area for me, i.e. Dungeoneering, Fishing Trawler, Soul Wars, the Orb Project, etc and I am unlikely to ever see a Citadel except in pictures. :cry:

[highlanders]

No because noobs dont want to finish dungeons fast, they only care that they dont die

This is exactly the kind of mindset that randoms need to steer away from. Who cares if you die? It's not like its' the end of the world. I personally never eat in dungeons and don't give a [cabbage] even though I die like 7 times a large lol.

 

Sure, you might want to pick up some food drops in case you're low health. But that doesn't mean going to the fullest extremes (making full sets of armor, cooking full inventory of morays + worldbearer). If you are going to do so make sure it doesn't slow the floor down. Most of the time it does, which is why it is frowned upon.

 

Problem is how are we supposed to convince to the general masses that deaths are beneficial and not as bad as they seem?

Just look at it from the perspective of a w117-er. They just spent upwards of 2 hours getting their xp, when dungeons are that long even a single death is a big deal. Even if they choose to not care about dying - the other 4 people will care and waste time gathering and cooking food, or making armour, and at the end the dungeon will be just as long and they will have lost most of their xp. It boils down to it being impossible to get good xp with random people because not everyone is in agreement and there is no game plan.

[Youmu]

Just look at it from the perspective of a w117-er. They just spent upwards of 2 hours getting their xp, when dungeons are that long even a single death is a big deal. Even if they choose to not care about dying - the other 4 people will care and waste time gathering and cooking food, or making armour, and at the end the dungeon will be just as long and they will have lost most of their xp. It boils down to it being impossible to get good xp with random people because not everyone is in agreement and there is no game plan.

When their dungeons take up to 2 hours long, you kind of wonder why they take 2 hours... and the reason is obvious, they do unnecessary things like cooking food, making armor, and clearing deadends. Randomers are just too damn scared/defensive to give a damn, and it's mainly because they are misinformed.

 

When no one gives a [bleep] about deaths and just blaze through the dungeon like tomorrow, deaths become irrelevant. A 15-minute large, -20% mod with 6+ deaths (you don't get penalized anymore after that point) will always be better than a 2-hour large, +10% mod with 0 deaths. There's no denying it.

 

Let's use some numbers:

 

Assuming case A: 15min large, -20% mod, 6 deaths.

Let's say this large you got 40k for it.

 

Assuming case B: 2h large, +10% mod, 0 deaths.

Let's say this large you got 110k for it.

 

For case A, assuming you can complete 3-4 larges in an hour & with the same penalty scenarios, you would get 120k-160k xp/h.

For case B, assuming the same +10% mod and 0 deaths, you would get 55k xp/h.

 

I think it's pretty obvious what most people would go for.

 

(Fun fact: If you 0-prestige case A, it would still be better xp/h than prestiged case B!)

[Tim]

I would rather have people who actually take others under 50 dungeoneering and help them instead of being a bunch of nazis about their level and assuming their "useless"

 

 

aside from that, a little bit of both.

[Saradomin_Mage]

I would rather have people who actually take others under 50 dungeoneering and help them instead of being a bunch of nazis about their level and assuming their "useless"

 

 

aside from that, a little bit of both.

The thing is that, under level 50, you're almost certainly useless. With one bind, there's really nothing left for defense, so you most likely end up dying repeatedly in 5:5 larges, especially if you're playing with hooded 50+ dgers. Leveling up solo to 50 is certainly more viable than trying to form larges at that low point - the XP you get from low leveled dungeons has been increased so much now that reaching level 50 isn't an issue anymore. Plus, you need to learn the basics of Dungeoneering for a start, and the best place to do that is undeniably the solo experience.

 

I've got another account who's only accessed up to floor 7 at the moment, and he's already level 24 Dungeoneering. Almost all the floors he's done have been +3% bonus, and yet he's still claiming such a boosted XP rate that level 50 won't be a problem at that progress.

[brunokiller]

Solution:

 

Make floor xp independant of floor, so a f46 still gives same xp as f4. The prestige system still applies of course.

 

 

Pro:

 

High level dungeoneers are not punished for dging with low levels

Low levels can dung with high levels so they can learn.

Dung clan requirements can be loosened a lot.

People will actually play the content in 1-29 dungeons (they are otherwise only c1d, which is a waste of dev resources tbfh)

No need to do c1s anymore.

 

con:

 

?

[Erewhon2]

When their dungeons take up to 2 hours long, you kind of wonder why they take 2 hours... and the reason is obvious, they do unnecessary things like cooking food, making armor, and clearing deadends. Randomers are just too damn scared/defensive to give a damn, and it's mainly because they are misinformed.

 

When no one gives a [bleep] about deaths and just blaze through the dungeon like tomorrow, deaths become irrelevant. A 15-minute large, -20% mod with 6+ deaths (you don't get penalized anymore after that point) will always be better than a 2-hour large, +10% mod with 0 deaths. There's no denying it.

 

Let's use some numbers:

 

Assuming case A: 15min large, -20% mod, 6 deaths.

Let's say this large you got 40k for it.

 

Assuming case B: 2h large, +10% mod, 0 deaths.

Let's say this large you got 110k for it.

 

For case A, assuming you can complete 3-4 larges in an hour & with the same penalty scenarios, you would get 120k-160k xp/h.

For case B, assuming the same +10% mod and 0 deaths, you would get 55k xp/h.

 

I think it's pretty obvious what most people would go for.

 

(Fun fact: If you 0-prestige case A, it would still be better xp/h than prestiged case B!)

 

Misinformed? there are enough votes on here that tell us a lot of people like to play this by the longer method rather than 'powering' through, I hardly think its because they don't know any better! In which case your assumptions around stats become meaningless. I may not play Dungeoneering as a rule, but I have played it. I like to look at everything and try everything on every floor, not because I am 'misinformed', but because thats my style of game play. My game has never been about powering xp and getting 99 as quickly as possible, its always been about playing RS to suit me.

 

Now your game playing style may be totally about xp and 99's without any real interest in the wider game, but thats your preference, not mine. Possibly Dungeoneering is a good mini game for people like yourself to get together and charge through the levels. IMO though there is little consideration for players who like to do it differently, especially when the impatience you have demonstrated is portrayed. So it would appear that Dungeoneering is becoming an 'elitist' mini game (like others) where those who bulldoze their way through and achieve high levels quickly will only play with like minded people.

[Saradomin_Mage]

If you've gone to world 117 for Dungeoneering, you know that you moved out of soloing dungeons because you want to do larges for better XP.

 

You don't go to 117 to intentionally play slowly/RP your dungeons, you made the switch because you wanted to dungeoneer in a team specifically for more XP.

 

When you meet people in your team who intentionally play slowly/badly/RP in the dungeon, you get the impression that they really don't care at all that they're wasting your time.

 

Going to 117 to intetionally play slowly/RP dungeons? You're misinformed.

 

The issue of actual quality of 117 dungeons is an entirely different matter.

[Gwasha]

Dungeoneering created a divide in the comminity. It created people who are "hardcore" gamers and want to challenge themselves, they want to find the coding of the game and figure out how and why things happen, and typically want to better themselves and turn others into metagamers too. It also created people who don't mind taking a lot of time on floors, people who like to relax, and people who enjoy playing game material and don't necessarily care about the best xp/hour. This is not a bad thing. I'm glad this rift was made because it made me a better player; one who strives to be better at what I do.

 

And by the way, don't bring up the topic of the votes. Those votes are from when the post was originally made, over a year ago.

[Youmu]

Solution:

 

Make floor xp independant of floor, so a f46 still gives same xp as f4. The prestige system still applies of course.

 

 

Pro:

 

High level dungeoneers are not punished for dging with low levels

Low levels can dung with high levels so they can learn.

Dung clan requirements can be loosened a lot.

People will actually play the content in 1-29 dungeons (they are otherwise only c1d, which is a waste of dev resources tbfh)

No need to do c1s anymore.

 

con:

 

?

This is actually a very good idea and I would love to see this implemented. People will then start doing larges on the other themes :thumbsup:

 

Misinformed? there are enough votes on here that tell us a lot of people like to play this by the longer method rather than 'powering' through, I hardly think its because they don't know any better! In which case your assumptions around stats become meaningless. I may not play Dungeoneering as a rule, but I have played it. I like to look at everything and try everything on every floor, not because I am 'misinformed', but because thats my style of game play. My game has never been about powering xp and getting 99 as quickly as possible, its always been about playing RS to suit me.

 

Now your game playing style may be totally about xp and 99's without any real interest in the wider game, but thats your preference, not mine. Possibly Dungeoneering is a good mini game for people like yourself to get together and charge through the levels. IMO though there is little consideration for players who like to do it differently, especially when the impatience you have demonstrated is portrayed. So it would appear that Dungeoneering is becoming an 'elitist' mini game (like others) where those who bulldoze their way through and achieve high levels quickly will only play with like minded people.

A lot of people? When 3/4ths of the people who visited this thread says they like to plow through dungeons rather than taking a longer time to finish, that is a pretty good representation of people wanting to do the "power" way. If you think that doing everything in a floor is your preferred method of play, then go with what you like.

 

However, the problem is that when efficient players are teamed with inefficient players and the latter refuses to adjust their style, it is the efficient players that are getting hurt (as stated by an earlier post in the thread). Keep in mind that if people do make an effort, I would be happy with it because it shows they are willing to show initiative (something a lot of randomers lack).

 

What do you mean "without any real interest in the wider game"? The dungeoneering metagame is already pretty damn wide, you should see some of the research projects DGS is involved with. If anything the metagaming view is much, much wider than the casualist view.

 

I do consider for those that have different gameplay styles, but think of this as a movie production. Sometimes, you can't always get what you want. Either you make an effort to accommodate to the team, or you continue to not listen and drag everybody down. In my opinion that is worse than what you claim is "impatience".

 

What we are aiming for are players who are willing to step out of their comfort zone and know how to rush floors, solo and team. They don't necessarily need to be good, because face it, who is born with natural talent? Practice makes perfect, and therefore some work is required to become good.

 

@Gwasha: It was actually only made around half a year ago, but only lasted for a few days before dying...

[Jmmy]

I find it quite insulting when people say "the only floors are s/l". 148 really isn't as bad as a lot of people make out. I key 20 minute floors the majority of the time, and I find most of the randoms I take to be compliant. Sure I'm not the fastest, ( best I've done is a 17) and sure you get some bad people ( worldbearer full of morays) but I still find it easy to enjoy my floors and be relatively efficient at the same time.

[Golvellius]

This thing again.

When are they supposed to fix it?

It's beyond stupid that you would skip the content, die 50,000 times, and be rewarded.

There is absolutely no challenge, but plenty of reward for those mindless robots who click door, key, door, die, door, key, die, die, door.

This why there are dungeoneering bots.

[DRUMINATOR17]

This thing again.

When are they supposed to fix it?

It's beyond stupid that you would skip the content, die 50,000 times, and be rewarded.

There is absolutely no challenge, but plenty of reward for those mindless robots who click door, key, door, die, door, key, die, die, door.

This why there are dungeoneering bots.

 

Careful now, Someone from Jagex might read this and be forced to call you a liar! As after all, "There are no dungeoneering bots, and anyone who is telling you otherwise is either lying or missinformed" (Wish I could find that Jmod Post / pic, it was histarical)

 

I really got a good laugh out of that, especially after having watched a dungeonering bot video a day or 2 earlier.

[Dragonlordjl]

Solution:

 

Make floor xp independant of floor, so a f46 still gives same xp as f4. The prestige system still applies of course.

 

 

Pro:

 

High level dungeoneers are not punished for dging with low levels

Low levels can dung with high levels so they can learn.

Dung clan requirements can be loosened a lot.

People will actually play the content in 1-29 dungeons (they are otherwise only c1d, which is a waste of dev resources tbfh)

No need to do c1s anymore.

 

con:

 

?

Won't fix everything. Since all floors give equal exp, the efficiency crowd will just run frozen over and over because it is the easiest.

 

And dung clan requirements exist not so much because of floor differences but because someone with 60 dung has a tiny fraction of the knowledge and experience of somebody with 100+ DG.

[Youmu]

Using a dungeoneering bot will get you what, 6k xp/h? You can't team either. But anyways, that's not the point of this thread.

 

The point of this is to stray away from the lazy ways of dungeoneering that is hurting it as a whole (botting, leech flooring, non-rushing in general). Many people are striving so hard to keep the spirit of dungeoneering alive, and it seems like a fair amount simply don't care.

 

Also Everto, last time I checked, frozen floors don't tick off warped. :P

[Low C]

I'll edit out the poll and such since it's quite old. Cool to see new discussion about dungeoneering.

[Dormado]

Using a dungeoneering bot will get you what, 6k xp/h? You can't team either. But anyways, that's not the point of this thread.

 

The point of this is to stray away from the lazy ways of dungeoneering that is hurting it as a whole (botting, leech flooring, non-rushing in general). Many people are striving so hard to keep the spirit of dungeoneering alive, and it seems like a fair amount simply don't care.

 

Also Everto, last time I checked, frozen floors don't tick off warped. :P

 

6K xp/h? Can't team? this made me chuckle irl. Never seen a dungeoneering bot in action, huh? Shouldn't speak about things you don't know about and throw around numbers you just made up.

 

 

On topic:

 

Some people rush, some don't I don't see what the big deal is, people are free to have their preferances. I, myself don't rush because dieing would be a disgrace, i also like to see xp coming in large chunks, get as many achievements as I can while in a dungeon (mmm, beastmode).

 

Also, 1 hour dungeons are slow for you huh? the average you get in w117 is above 1:30mins, and I've gone as long as 4hours+ (don't remember the exact time, was before the timing system was introduced and i wasn't really tracking time).

[Pfohlol]

Solution:

 

Make floor xp independant of floor, so a f46 still gives same xp as f4. The prestige system still applies of course.

 

 

Pro:

 

High level dungeoneers are not punished for dging with low levels

Low levels can dung with high levels so they can learn.

Dung clan requirements can be loosened a lot.

People will actually play the content in 1-29 dungeons (they are otherwise only c1d, which is a waste of dev resources tbfh)

No need to do c1s anymore.

 

con:

 

?

 

People start c1ing occults since they take the longest and frozens have noob monsters so if xp was uniform across all floors you would find that we would probably see that the floors that are currently c1ed would probably become the main attraction

[highlanders]

Just look at it from the perspective of a w117-er. They just spent upwards of 2 hours getting their xp, when dungeons are that long even a single death is a big deal. Even if they choose to not care about dying - the other 4 people will care and waste time gathering and cooking food, or making armour, and at the end the dungeon will be just as long and they will have lost most of their xp. It boils down to it being impossible to get good xp with random people because not everyone is in agreement and there is no game plan.

When their dungeons take up to 2 hours long, you kind of wonder why they take 2 hours... and the reason is obvious, they do unnecessary things like cooking food, making armor, and clearing deadends. Randomers are just too damn scared/defensive to give a damn, and it's mainly because they are misinformed.

 

When no one gives a [bleep] about deaths and just blaze through the dungeon like tomorrow, deaths become irrelevant. A 15-minute large, -20% mod with 6+ deaths (you don't get penalized anymore after that point) will always be better than a 2-hour large, +10% mod with 0 deaths. There's no denying it.

 

Let's use some numbers:

 

Assuming case A: 15min large, -20% mod, 6 deaths.

Let's say this large you got 40k for it.

 

Assuming case B: 2h large, +10% mod, 0 deaths.

Let's say this large you got 110k for it.

 

For case A, assuming you can complete 3-4 larges in an hour & with the same penalty scenarios, you would get 120k-160k xp/h.

For case B, assuming the same +10% mod and 0 deaths, you would get 55k xp/h.

 

I think it's pretty obvious what most people would go for.

 

(Fun fact: If you 0-prestige case A, it would still be better xp/h than prestiged case B!)

You don't get it. Let's make it even simpler for you for understand.

Player 1 tries to play efficiently: Gets 6+ deaths but speeds up dungeon.

Player 2 through 5: play like idiots and slow down everything, player 1 ends up having to wait while they fish, cook and make armour

Result: Dungeon is 2 hours long and player 1 has got even less xp than the idiots

 

That's why the "masses" don't go around dying on purpose. That sort of thinking only works when you have a clan that knows what they're doing. People that are too low lvled to get into a clan and have to use w117 have basically no choice but to play inefficiently.

[Low C]

Just look at it from the perspective of a w117-er. They just spent upwards of 2 hours getting their xp, when dungeons are that long even a single death is a big deal. Even if they choose to not care about dying - the other 4 people will care and waste time gathering and cooking food, or making armour, and at the end the dungeon will be just as long and they will have lost most of their xp. It boils down to it being impossible to get good xp with random people because not everyone is in agreement and there is no game plan.

When their dungeons take up to 2 hours long, you kind of wonder why they take 2 hours... and the reason is obvious, they do unnecessary things like cooking food, making armor, and clearing deadends. Randomers are just too damn scared/defensive to give a damn, and it's mainly because they are misinformed.

 

When no one gives a [bleep] about deaths and just blaze through the dungeon like tomorrow, deaths become irrelevant. A 15-minute large, -20% mod with 6+ deaths (you don't get penalized anymore after that point) will always be better than a 2-hour large, +10% mod with 0 deaths. There's no denying it.

 

Let's use some numbers:

 

Assuming case A: 15min large, -20% mod, 6 deaths.

Let's say this large you got 40k for it.

 

Assuming case B: 2h large, +10% mod, 0 deaths.

Let's say this large you got 110k for it.

 

For case A, assuming you can complete 3-4 larges in an hour & with the same penalty scenarios, you would get 120k-160k xp/h.

For case B, assuming the same +10% mod and 0 deaths, you would get 55k xp/h.

 

I think it's pretty obvious what most people would go for.

 

(Fun fact: If you 0-prestige case A, it would still be better xp/h than prestiged case B!)

You don't get it. Let's make it even simpler for you for understand.

Player 1 tries to play efficiently: Gets 6+ deaths but speeds up dungeon.

Player 2 through 5: play like idiots and slow down everything, player 1 ends up having to wait while they fish, cook and make armour

Result: Dungeon is 2 hours long and player 1 has got even less xp than the idiots

 

That's why the "masses" don't go around dying on purpose. That sort of thinking only works when you have a clan that knows what they're doing. People that are too low lvled to get into a clan and have to use w117 have basically no choice but to play inefficiently.

 

When I played I was able to Key for people competent enough to listen to my commands and do dungeons under 30 minutes long. I even tested this on w117 multiple times. My theory is that if I find "idiots" willing to be open minded and listen I can pull off average dungeon times and dispell your "fun facts". Thus turning inefficient "idiots" into sub-par efficient dungeoneers.